More

Chicago Firefighters: City Must Hire 111 African Americans, Pay Millions To Others

Firefighters

By DON BABWIN   05/13/11 04:54 PM ET   AP

CHICAGO -- A federal appeals court ruled on Friday that the Chicago Fire Department must hire 111 African Americans who passed a firefighters entrance exam 16 years ago and pay millions of dollars to thousands more who took and passed the same test.

The Seventh U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling was the latest blow to the city, which has been on the losing end of court decisions regarding the 1995 test for years, including a 2005 ruling by a federal judge who said the test discriminated against black applicants and a U.S. Supreme Court ruling last year that the candidates did not wait too long to sue the city.

An attorney for the black firefighter candidates said that the 111 jobs would be filled from the applicants who passed the 1995 test and their pensions would be adjusted as if they'd been firefighters since 1995. And, said Joshua Karsh, 6,000 others who also passed the test will divide "tens of millions of dollars" that would have been paid 111 firefighters from 1995 until today.

A spokeswoman for the city's law department called the decision a "partial victory" for the city because it reduced the number of African Americans the fire department must hire from 132 to 111. "Reducing the number of plaintiffs who are eligible reduces the damages," said Jenny Hoyle.

Hoyle said that the city was still calculating the damages as result of dividing the back pay of 111 firefighters among the 6,000 applicants, but that officials estimate the payout will be about $30 million.

The ruling stems from a test given in 1995 that was intended to measure an aptitude for firefighting. After the test, anyone who scored 64 or below was deemed not qualified, but officials told those who scored above that number that while they passed, they would randomly hire the top 1,800 who scored 89 or better.

Because only 11 percent of the African Americans scored 89 or better, the overwhelming number of applicants hired from that test were white.

Karsh said the test was discriminatory because there was no evidence that the applicant who scored 89 or better would be any better firefighter than another who scored a 64, and in fact in 2005 a federal judge said the test discriminated against black candidates. In her ruling the judge said the city knew the cutoff point was meaningless and would disproportionately exclude blacks from the pool of candidates most likely to be hired.

"If the city of Chicago had selected firefighters at random from all the people who passed the test it would have gotten a pool of equally capable firefighters and the pool would have been more integrated," said Karsh said. He said he did not know when the hiring might begin, but said that he expected it to start soon.

After the judge's decision, the city, which hadn't given another test since 1995 because of ongoing court challenges, gave another test in 2006. But that test was given on a pass/fail basis and that all passing applicants, and not just the top ones, were processed randomly for additional tests such as physical agility and background checks.

FOLLOW HUFFPOST CHICAGO

Filed by Will Guzzardi  | 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 230
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4  Next ›  Last »  (4 total)
09:00 AM on 05/19/2011
Of course, once again, black people, as with literally every other test out there, score much lower than whites; therefore, it can't possibly be because black people have lower iqs than whites and that they are lazy when it comes to studying. Oh of course not. There is only one answer: the test was biased. So, taken tens of millions of dollars of tax money and pay it to those blacks for no other reason than because they are black. Don't give any of that money to the other whites who also passed and did not get hired though.

It's really incredible that these judges sit judging cases. This is a clear-cut case of black failure chalked up again under the b.s. of "racism."
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
03:33 PM on 05/16/2011
Difference between the South and North, we acknowledge their is racism not that it simply doesnt exist......
photo
gingerred
Proud lesbian conservative
02:07 PM on 05/16/2011
why did the city say that 65 was passing if they only considered 89 or above for the job? that is the problem they were led to think they had a chance when it was a lie. but someone who gets a 65 is not as Qualified as someone who gets an 89.
09:33 PM on 05/18/2011
Passing does not equal hired. There's no way anybody can determine how many are going to pass a test out of a certain number of people who take that test, so they have to keep the bar low in case not enough people pass.

If a very high percentage passes, then the test administrator has to raise the "passing grade" so that the applicant pool is reduced to those who passed with a higher grade to keep the process fair for those who scored higher, for reason like they studied, or are smarter, or just got lucky.

There is no reason why somebody that scores a D should randomly beat an A scorer for a job like Fire Fighter. And there was no promise of a job if you passed the test. This was not a driver's license test where you either pass or fail. Its a job test. The employer is going to hire the best qualified and try to make it as fair as possible...which they did as I explained above.

Now, let's say they did not raise the bar. And a black guy who scored a 100 was put in the random pick with a white guy who scored 64 and lost the random pick, what would you say then?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
patg00
2 is the odd prime
01:23 PM on 05/16/2011
I'd like to see who can pass the physical part of the test that they too 15 years ago. Who is in the same shape at 40 as they were at 25?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
patg00
2 is the odd prime
01:19 PM on 05/16/2011
why even have a test. Just give the jobs to the first X people who show up.
photo
PalaceOfWisdom
Obama signed away habeus corpus
11:52 AM on 05/16/2011
What if every employer was made to hire this way? You set a minimum standard to be considered "qualified", then instead of picking who is most qualified by some measurable standard, you just shuffle the resumes and randomly pluck a few from the pile. Would you want your future tied to such a system?

You can prove that someone objectively less qualified got hired/promoted over you. If a system based on random luck is rigged, how do you prove that? If the outcome doesn't have the desired racial mix, do you keep re-drawing until it does?

Have we really reached the point that the only way to promote fairness is to remove all human decision making from the hiring process? It makes no more sense than reacting to an infraction on the job with a random lottery to determine who will be reprimanded.
03:13 PM on 05/15/2011
Good old democratic policies
photo
CaliTLC
Pres. Obama's GOT THIS
09:01 PM on 05/15/2011
Good old JUSTICE delayed.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
GlennWatson
Two million fans
11:10 AM on 05/15/2011
I love who Chicagoans are alway complaining about racism in the South. Take the log out of your own eye yankees.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Realist1965
11:05 PM on 05/14/2011
a city run by Dems forever...how do you like them apples?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
AlaskanWannaB
8 years of insanity and NOW you're mad
02:57 AM on 05/15/2011
Chicago is racist place when it comes to blue collar jobs. When I lived there, it was difficult for black men to get into construction jobs of all types. It was like the mob had a monopoly on all type of blue collar jobs--plumbing, carpentry, electrical, etc. Not surprised to hear this.......
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JAT3
For every action there is a reaction...
04:30 AM on 05/17/2011
How sad! It can't be that is just fair. I mean it was ruled in court of all places, based on the facts, the evidence and merits of both sides..the decision laid out. But because it didn't rule to keep the injustices towards Blacks you have a problem with it. Furthermore, your notion regarding this be ran by Dems is a very racist statement. Clearly had it be Reps then we can assume what the outcome would of been then? Anything that has to do with minorities is wrong in your eyes. Its people like you that racism is alive and will never go away because you fail to have justice for what is right unless its only White.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Realist1965
01:20 AM on 05/19/2011
Wow...talk about a rambling rant that missed an entire point. The point was, the city has forever been run by the Democrats - you know, the party AAs vote for 90+% of the time? And yet, here you have an issue of discrimination ruled in in the courts as you describe (once I deciphered your ebonyics) against them. And your only response is to accuse me and Rs of racism? Girl, you need some more schooling! You've voted Dem for 50+ years and how far have you come? Maybe it's time for a change?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mechelle Gray
Excuse Me, Exxxcccuse Me!
08:50 PM on 05/14/2011
Was "reading comprehension" part of the test? I see most of the responders can't COMPREHEND what actually happened!

* sigh *
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mechelle Gray
Excuse Me, Exxxcccuse Me!
08:42 PM on 05/14/2011
Unless you've taken a "civil service test" (which I have twice way back when), you don't know what type of questions are being asked.

Trust, most of them ( at that time ) had NOTHING to do with the job. Also, being a police officer or fireman is more about COMMON SENSE and INSTINCTS.

If you don't have ACCESS to the STUDY MATERIALS, you will not score 50%. That's just the way it's rigged ... just sayin'
10:11 AM on 05/15/2011
Most of the fire fighters I know took multiple tests for years....The test are simple but you might have hundreds of applicants per position. If you can read at an 8th grade level you can pass the test. Chicago had thousands of applicants for hundreds of slots. The study materials were to pages of basic information about fire fighting. If you could not read 2 or 3 pages of material, handed out days before the test when you signed up, then answer 30 questions on what you read then you would fail. If I had an applicant that could not read to an 8th grade level why would I bother with further testing....they washed out.
12:42 PM on 05/15/2011
MIchelle,
I know nothing about you except what i can glean through your posts.And, The Great Detective warned us against 'theorizing without evidence". Still, a few pertinent points.
You seem to employ conspiracies to explain unpleasant results ."White people ...get access to tests" without underpinning.How do these "White People " get access? Through The Secret White people Internet? DOes Santa deliver them at Christmas. You see the problem ?
Seconbdly your claim knowledge isn't necessary ( COMMON SENSE is all that's needed ) flies in the face of my experience.Cops need to know a lot.In fact ,DC has such a horrible murder solution /conviction rate because it abandoned testing.
Finally,capitalizing letters impresses no none.Even here.Sorry
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mister C
12:05 AM on 05/16/2011
Whatever you meant by this deluded anology
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
P51MUSTANG
From the planet Sarcasia
07:23 PM on 05/14/2011
Here's what I'd like to know:

Why did only only 11 percent of the African Americans tested score 89 or better?

I propose that blacks aren't (significantly) any smarter or dumber than whites. At least not enough to explain this big difference in test scores.

Were white applicants coached by white firefighters, prior to the testing? Given better study materials? Copies of old exams? Graded differently? As a result of living with family or relatives who are firefighters, given a jump start on the testing?

Explain the disparity in the high scores. THAT is where the problem is.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mechelle Gray
Excuse Me, Exxxcccuse Me!
08:43 PM on 05/14/2011
To answer your questions:

No access to study material
Yes/Probaby
Yes/Probably
Yes/Probably
No
Yes/Probably
05:21 AM on 05/16/2011
The study material was handed out when you signed up for the test. Twist it any way you want. I will say it again. If you could read to an 8th grade level you can pass the firefighters written exam. The new name for these guys is already the 64% ers.
08:54 PM on 05/14/2011
I think the disparity in high scores has been explained multiple times.Originally,jensen's work was considered controversial.No one even challenges it anymore .The truly sad thing isn't a difference in the average intellect of various racial groups. (As you may know,some Oriental groups and Askenazi Jews test higher than Caucasians ) and it's not even your denial( After all,lots of people were as wedded to the First Day of Creation at 4004 BC ) It's your considering individuals as a group member first.
I do have a question for you though.Given the attempts to create an aptitude /knowledge based test for so many decades ,and both the consistent failures and the c onsistently repeated results,is it possible to do anything that would change your mind. (Remember,Galileo only murmured, "But,yet it moves."
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Glenn Friedman
10:35 PM on 05/14/2011
actually Jensen's position is still considered controversial and yes is challenged...
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf
06:26 PM on 05/14/2011
So what we are saying is Blacks are not smart enough to pass the test so give them the job. What about the other people not smart enough to pass the test? What do they get? I know it sez they passed but 64 % what is that a D. Ok thats what we need make those racist A and B applicants go somewhere else. I am pretty sure Chicago Fire fighters must be EMTs also. That should work out real well. This wont get people killed. Plus now every Black that scored well is gong to look like an affirmative action hire. Could somebody please make Lisa Madigan go sit in the corner.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
miketothad
trollslayer
07:32 PM on 05/14/2011
read the article, m.o.r.a.n.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
GlennWatson
Two million fans
11:12 AM on 05/15/2011
I love that you mispelled the insult.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mechelle Gray
Excuse Me, Exxxcccuse Me!
08:44 PM on 05/14/2011
I'm SURE part of the test is READING COMPREHENSION. You'd flunk!
10:13 AM on 05/15/2011
Didnt realize I was getting graded on this Mechelle.....your mother name you like that?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
miketothad
trollslayer
05:21 PM on 05/14/2011
Wow the Caucasian insecurity is thick, here.
07:30 PM on 05/14/2011
Insecurity? No. It's disgust.

Does Affirmative Action cover Blacks whose ancestors have never been enslaved, (e.g. Obama) and/or does it cover Blacks who have been slave owners until the 20th Century?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mechelle Gray
Excuse Me, Exxxcccuse Me!
08:45 PM on 05/14/2011
Congrats. Please DECIPHER what you just said! What?
05:04 PM on 05/14/2011
It's still wrong. 6k people don't not need compensation. Where there any others? Just because the passed does not they get hired. You look at one side, but thanks to liberal attorney the taxpayer is paying to pay. The military has been testing for rank for years. Their test are one way. You either know it or you don't. In the military race does not effect grade scores. Thank goodness liberal attorneys can't sue the military.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mechelle Gray
Excuse Me, Exxxcccuse Me!
08:47 PM on 05/14/2011
Are you kidding with that "profile picture"? * sigh *
photo
BlindChance
Have another cherry...
08:01 PM on 05/15/2011
Seriously. Is there a way to flag that mess? yuck.