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JFK Moon Mission Tape Reveals Inner Doubts About Space Program

Jfk Moon Program

JAY LINDSAY   05/25/11 04:09 PM ET   AP

BOSTON — After setting a soaring vision to land a man on the moon, President John F. Kennedy struggled with how to sell the public on a costly space program he worried had "lost its glamour" and had scant political benefits, according to a newly released White House tape.

Kennedy and NASA Administrator James Webb hashed out how to strengthen public backing for the mission, such as by highlighting its technological benefits and military uses.

And in a scenario that echoes today, the two worried about preserving funding amid what Webb calls a "driving desire to cut the budget," according to the tape recorded two months before Kennedy was assassinated.

"It's become a political struggle now," Kennedy says, near the end of the 46-minute tape. "We've got to hold this thing, goddamn it."

The Sept. 18, 1963, conversation is among 260 hours of White House recordings that archivists at the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum have been reviewing in chronological order.

Its release Wednesday comes on the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's May 25, 1961, speech in which he made his famous call to reach the moon by decade's end. While that speech is remembered for its ambition, it also included a caveat that "no single space project in this period ... will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish."

In the tape recorded more than two years later, Kennedy and Webb are heard dealing with that reality. With the 1964 election approaching, Kennedy frets a massive program that's not making obvious advances will prove a liability.

"I don't think the space program has much political positives," Kennedy tells Webb.

The president seems to lament that the rival Russians haven't made the progress in their half of the space race that could bring needed attention to America's program.

"I mean if the Russians do some tremendous feat, then it would stimulate interest again, but right now space has lost a lot of its glamour," Kennedy said.

Webb acknowledges that the tens of billions of dollars spent over a decade made the program a target for lawmakers. But he repeatedly pushes its merits, including spurring technological advances he says will vastly expand the country's economic might.

"I think it's going to generate the technology that's going to make a difference for this country far beyond space," Webb says.

At one point, Kennedy challenges Webb to answer, "Do you think the lunar, manned landing on the moon is a good idea?" The president also asks for and receives assurances from Webb that sending a man to the moon isn't just a "stunt" that will yield the same advances as sending scientific instruments to the moon's surface for billions less.

Kennedy and Webb then agree it's crucial to emphasize the space program's importance to the military and national security, or risk it being considered wasteful.

"The heat's going to go on unless we can say this has got some military justification and not just prestige," Kennedy says.

"I think it's the only way we're going to be able to defend it before the public in the next 12 months," Kennedy says. "I want to get the military shield over this thing."

Maura Porter, a John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum archivist, said the tape offers a look at the pragmatism behind Kennedy's vision for America's future in space. Kennedy's prime motivations for pushing the program were far less practical than what he knew would fly with the public or with Congress, she said.

"He loved the idea of being adventurers and being explorers," Porter said.

Porter said some historians have speculated Kennedy would have backed away from the space program if he won a second term. But the tape indicates he was hoping to be in office when America reached the moon.

On the tape, Kennedy asks Webb if there's any chance the lunar landing will happen during a second term. Webb says no, and the president sounds deflated.

"It's just going to take longer than that," Webb says. "This is a tough job, a real tough job."

___

Online:

http://www.jfklibrary.org

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BOSTON — After setting a soaring vision to land a man on the moon, President John F. Kennedy struggled with how to sell the public on a costly space program he worried had "lost its glamour" and...
BOSTON — After setting a soaring vision to land a man on the moon, President John F. Kennedy struggled with how to sell the public on a costly space program he worried had "lost its glamour" and...
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This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
06:15 AM on 05/26/2011
What a big spending Democrat. Too bad we didn't have Rand Paul and Paul Ryan to filibuster this boondoggle and stop the reckless spending.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
syds180turn
Independent and Proud of It!
04:39 AM on 05/26/2011
Without JFK, there wouldn't have been all of the valuable technology today, that is directly linked to NASA. and their scientific studies. The government had been using for decades, what we take for granted today...the Internet, fiber optics (in it's infancy), holographic images, 3-D illusion illustrators which has morphed into HDTV. NASA contributed to how gravity affects our internal organs and central nervous system thus enabling medical professionals to help patients with various catastrophic illnesses and injuries. NASA showed us the possibility that we could someday colonize other planets if this one becomes uninhabitable.Nixon may have pinch hit and drove in a run, but the slugger is the one that got the party started. If the private sector wants to make a go of space travel then so be it. But NASA will always be the grand daddy of all space exploration and travel.I think people forget that NASA employs tons of people...everyone from the clean room personnel, to engineers, administrative assistants, janitors, scientists, and various other essential and non-essential personnel. Astronauts are only a part of NASA, not all of it. If it is shut down, then possibly 1000's of people could be out of a job. NASA serves a very definitive purpose in who we are and it should be saved,
timber1647
It's either sadness or euphoria
10:05 AM on 05/26/2011
Without JFK, there wouldn't have been a lot of things. People forget that most of LBJs accomplishments were the ideas JFK had been articulating. And I can't help but believe had he lived there would not have been an escalation in Viet Nam. As he told Cronkite, in the end it's their war (the South) to win or lose. He just didn't trust his Generals.
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02:42 AM on 05/26/2011
But they still haven't revealed the part of the tapes where they negotiate that it's cheaper to stage the moon landing in Hollywood and fool the world about it.

:-)
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01:48 AM on 05/26/2011
It is interesting to note the careful "Moon" reference in President Obama's recent State of the Union speech: "Half a century ago, when the Soviets beat us into space with the launch of a satellite called Sputnik, we had no idea how we would beat them to the moon. The science wasn't even there yet. NASA didn't exist. But after investing in better research and education, we didn't just surpass the Soviets; we unleashed a wave of innovation that created new industries and millions of new jobs." He doesn't say ... "We put a man on the Moon." Often very intelligent powerful famous men cleverly strive in their writings to be accurate and timeless. It is as if they desire to be truthful to future generations.
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realitytrumpsbull
Two 'alves of coconut!
01:47 AM on 05/26/2011
The mission to the moon was a giant leap forward in the US/Russian space race. Russia put the first man up, Gagarin, and the pressure was on to show those commies that America had what it took to be number one in space. Well, as far as I know, the US is the only country that's ever put 'boots on the ground' on our nearest heavenly body, our natural satellite, and the act has not been replicated since the days of Apollo. But, much was learned on the way to the moon, and today, we've got satellites that have roamed the solar system, some that have even traveled beyond it.   

But, what has truly been gained, from study of and travel in space? Well, we've learned that there's still much to learn, about keeping people alive in an inherently inhospitable environment where there's '400 degrees difference between light and shadow', and vacuum, which can kill pretty much instantly, but today we can send manned vessels miles out into space, and thousands of feet below the surface of the ocean, with relative safety. The same cannot be said, about the beginnings of the American space program. Many people died on the way up. And, the physics of traveling those 70 vertical miles are still daunting, but as has been proven, not insurmountable. And eventually, maybe there'll be an outpost on the moon, and another on mars, and another one on some moon of an outlying heavenly body. But, that's only if people really want to go. I think most people would rather stay on earth, and speculate on the stock market, or buy real estate. Most of us really aren't explorers, anymore, we're consumers, fat, dumb, and happy, and that's just the way it is.
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Susie Allread
12:55 AM on 05/26/2011
I am sorry but I cannot see spending trillions on going into space when we have homeless people on the street, we have people who cannot afford food or gas or housing or utilities. I mean it is all for naught. No one can live there so what is the point? The U.S.A. is in debt so bad and we could really use this money to help people out. It is sad that the Govt keeps doing this over and over and over again. It is time to quit. I think the only thing is that the Govt thinks Russia is going to get ahead of them in the space program. SO WHAT??? It only means that they wasted alot more money when they should have been feeding their people. SAD.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
MilesLong
Livin' the Dream
02:29 AM on 05/26/2011
That's all very fine and good, Susie. However, those people in need aren't going to be taken care of any better if we don't spend the money on space exploration unless we eliminate the Republican Party from existence; or at least remove them from Federal Government.

Miles "Truth To Power" Long
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Susie Allread
09:05 AM on 05/26/2011
You have a very valid point.
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fam3d2008
I work and think- therefore I am not a democrat!
10:32 AM on 05/26/2011
"Eliminate".....are you saying that anyone who thinks differently from you should cease to be?? Wow- so much for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..................COMRADE!!!!!
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06:41 PM on 05/29/2011
NASA's budget request for 2011 was $14 billion, all of which would be spent in the US providing jobs for Americans.
The State Department's projected foreign aid package for 2011 is $41 billion, none of which would be spent in the US. Top that off with aid going to countries that really don't like us (Venezuela, $5 million, West Bank/Gaza, $550 million), countries that take our money then convince their own people to break our immigration laws (Mexico, $346 million), countries who just seem to pi$$ it away (Haiti, $359 million), countries we just can't trust (Pakistan and Afghanistan, $7 BILLION), and you've got enough to fund NASA and then some.
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12:47 AM on 05/26/2011
It is important to remember that the Space Shuttle only travels a few hundred miles from the surface of the Earth ... yet the Moon is some 240,000 miles out. To re-enter the Earth's atmosphere the Space Shuttle requires very thick tiles to keep from burning up ... yet the Apollo Space Capsules only had a very thin "secret" coating to protect them upon re-entry. It simply doesn't add up. Of course, Nixon would lie ... just as quickly as President Carter put a stop to all the remaining Apollo Missions and the Moon Base. I can understand for many years that the United States has to keep up the illusion ... but the further we go into the future without being able or willing to actually achieve Manned Moon Missions ... the more credibility NASA loses. It truly has become a huge "hole in history" as Arthur C. Clarke put it. It seems inevitable that the truth will eventually prevail ... why is it so critically important that it is 50 or 100 years from now? I think people and other nations are more forgiving and more prepared to deal with reality than our government and NASA fear.
08:47 AM on 05/26/2011
No offense. , but you're an idiot.
12:35 AM on 05/26/2011
JFK was a lowlife. The entire Kennedy family are garbage. People who worship them are simple minded.
timber1647
It's either sadness or euphoria
10:08 AM on 05/26/2011
It is no wonder you have zero fans. While not perfect, JFK at a young age was head an shoulders better than his rivals and certainly better skilled then his successors.
09:52 AM on 05/29/2011
George Washington was "nor perfect". JFK was the bottom of the barrel.
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06:43 PM on 05/29/2011
He's got A fan. Be honest.
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12:26 AM on 05/26/2011
Despite NASA's good intentions, simulations, images, and pseudo scientific propaganda ... some four decades later ... there still isn't one shred of credible evidence which proves that men have ever walked on the Moon. Of course, NASA and others have landed various craft on the Moon's surface (without human beings). We know that lasers can be bounced off the Moon itself, as well as reflected from other unmanned craft. We know that lunar and other meteorites collected all over the Earth in the 1950's and 1960's were stored in the same labs that NASA supposedly kept lunar material brought back from the Moon. Such "lunar meterorites" collected from Earth along with Russian lunar material samples were actually utilized by geoligists to prove that the Moon Rocks and material were brought back from the Moon by Apollo. In reality, this proves only that meteorites presumed to be of lunar origin are similar in composition to the rocks and material NASA claims came from the Moon and stored in the same lab. The geological science is sketchy at best and proves NOTHING. NASA has never denied that the Soviets also brought back material from the Moon ... yet neither the U.S.S.R. nor the U.S. had any such practical technology at that time. Millions of sane intelligent people believe that the Apollo Manned Moon Missions were all likely simulated during the Nixon administration for good and obvious reasons. There is certainly "reasonable" doubt.
timber1647
It's either sadness or euphoria
10:10 AM on 05/26/2011
Perhaps, and this is just a thought, you should ask the guys who flew those missions. There is no reasonable doubt. Or do you forget about Apollo 13?
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06:33 AM on 05/27/2011
You mean the ones who are still alive and mentally stable? It is difficult to determine whether Apollo 13 was a real attempt to travel in to deep space (and failed) or whether the mission was designed to give Apollo 11
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
snyderhjjr
12:18 AM on 05/26/2011
Thank God for a visionary - know any on the right? Don't think so - they're too busy looking to their conservative regressive rear ends.....And you know what - it's ugly, but, it's all they regressives know.............Thank God for forward leaning progressive individuals..............We should always strive for what's beyond us, instead of behind us........................that's progressive..........
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DocSyracuse
A socially liberal, fiscally conservative surgeon
12:09 AM on 05/26/2011
The first man to walk on the moon has blasted off at the Obama administration's stripped-down space plans, describing the president's proposals as "devastating."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/14/obama-vs-neil-armstrong-nasa-constellation/#ixzz1NQbuGpUQ
11:31 PM on 05/25/2011
Gotta go. Thanks for an unusually rewarding spar with the libs, especially mc, Vic Tor and Randy.

Until next time.
11:17 PM on 05/25/2011
Yes, JFK questioned it...If only we had that insight now......even though he had doubts he still ok'd
it.....no president since had such imagine or foresight...we need JFK now and in the past 15yrs !
11:15 PM on 05/25/2011
Well, it is time for my meds, and the orderlies don't like to be kept waiting.

Thanks for an unusually rewarding spar with the libs. Special thanks to mc, Vic Tor and Randy for some good points and keeping me on my toes.

(And also my producer, my director, my makeup gal, my mom, Brunhilda, and Fred, my quarter-pound pet cockroach.)

Till next time.
11:11 PM on 05/25/2011
It took less than a decade between Alan Shepard's suborbital flight and the moon landing. Now 42 years later we've accomplished nothing greater than the moon landing. NASA will never be as advanced as what we see on Star Trek.
11:13 PM on 05/25/2011
We can still hitch rides with the Russians, tho.
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joper201
Lifes tough, it's tougher when you're stupid. JW
11:15 PM on 05/25/2011
You right, but it may help with our relations with the Muslims. HA!