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Gay Marriage Debate Continues Across The U.S.

Gay Marriage Debate

By DAVID KLEPPER   05/28/11 01:26 PM ET   AP

PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- A flurry of activity in efforts to legally recognize gay relationships or ban same-sex marriage is reminding advocates that even though polls indicate growing acceptance, the debate is far from settled.

Rhode Island is pondering a proposal to allow civil unions, a compromise that arose after it became clear there weren't enough votes to aim for marriage. Minnesota lawmakers voted to put a constitutional marriage ban on the ballot, and the mayor of New York spoke out strongly in favor of same-sex marriage as talks continue in his state.

In Rhode Island, gay marriage advocates say they're unsatisfied with the proposal to offer civil unions, which provide many of the same legal benefits of marriage without calling it that.

"There's a special status when you say `my wife,' and civil unions don't give that," said Annie Cronin-Silva, of West Warwick, who married a woman in neighboring Massachusetts in 2008. "But things are changing. It's coming. It's just so hard to wait."

Gay marriage is allowed in Iowa, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut and the District of Columbia. Several other states offer civil unions or domestic partnerships instead. Illinois, Delaware and Hawaii enacted civil unions this year. The debate continues to rage in several other states.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg on Thursday warned lawmakers in his state that they will be remembered as civil rights obstructionists if they block attempts to pass gay marriage. Opponents have committed $1.5 million to defeat the efforts, matching the amount raised by supporters.

Minnesota lawmakers voted a week ago to put a constitutional prohibition against gay marriage on the 2012 ballot. Voters in 29 states have already added similar amendments, and gay marriage supporters hope to make Minnesota the first state to reject such an amendment.

"It's a changed debate in Minnesota and in the nation," said Monica Meyer, executive director of OutFront Minnesota. "I'm hoping we can ride that sea change. But we know we have a very big challenge in front of us."

Even though Massachusetts considers Cronin-Silva and her wife, Melanie Silva, legally married, Rhode Island doesn't. They've had legal agreements drawn up granting rights that are automatic through marriage, such as making medical decisions in an emergency.

Civil unions could spare gay couples an expensive trip to a lawyer, Cronin-Silva said. But she said it's no substitute for marriage.

Groups on both sides of the debate have long pointed to polls that appear to advance their agenda. But in the past nine months, several major surveys are showing a trend of increasing support for gay marriage.

A Gallup poll released this month found that a majority of Americans believe same-sex marriage should be legal. In 1996, Gallup found that only 27 percent of Americans supported gay marriage. It's just the latest of several major surveys showing that a slim majority of Americans now support gay marriage.

"I thought for a while it might be one fluky poll," said Gregory Lewis, a professor of public management and policy at Georgia State University who tracks public attitudes on gay marriage. "But now it's just one after another. It does seem like this year's polls are noticeably different even from last year."

An ABC-Washington Post survey in March found that 53 percent of Americans support gay marriage. An Associated Press poll in August found that 52 percent of Americans think the federal government should extend legal recognition to married gay couples, up from 46 percent the year before.

Opponents note that public opinion polls in Maine and California showed majority support for gay marriage in those states, too – right before voters rejected gay marriage measures. Even in left-leaning Rhode Island, efforts to pass marriage rights stalled this year after legislators balked.

The polls show at least two factors contributing to changing attitudes.

For one, younger Americans of all political persuasions say they're more tolerant of homosexuality than older generations.

Meghan McCain, the daughter of former Republican presidential candidate and gay marriage opponent John McCain, is one example of a prominent Republican who says the party's opposition to gay marriage is causing it to turn off younger voters.

Madeline Koch, a 24-year-old heterosexual Republican, told Minnesota lawmakers to oppose the gay marriage amendment because it would put inequality in the state Constitution.

Second, while older Americans identifying themselves as Republicans remain firmly opposed to gay marriage, Democrats and independents appear to be changing their minds, Lewis said. The Gallup poll found that 69 percent of self-described Democrats support gay marriage, compared with 56 percent the year before.

"The generational changes don't explain everything," Lewis said. "There's a fair amount of Americans who are just changing their minds."

Gay marriage opponents concede that surveys show increased support for gay marriage. But they say polls are different from ballot questions.

"A poll is just a poll," said Chris Plante, executive director of the National Organization for Marriage-Rhode Island. "The reality is, when people go to the voting booth they protect marriage. Legislatures including our own in Rhode Island recognize that people don't want it."

Plante points to similar predictions made about the demise of the anti-abortion movement after Roe v. Wade. Nearly 40 years later, anti-abortion groups have successfully pushed for more restrictions on abortion throughout the nation.

"They think the old folks will just die out and they'll win this with the young people," he said. "Maybe for a season. But I believe we will see young people say, `Wait a second. This was an awful social experiment.' You have to take the long view."

From the other side of the debate, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg also endorsed viewing it in context. A measure to legalize gay marriage in the state is being negotiated among Gov. Andrew Cuomo and legislative leaders, but Cuomo has said he won't put it to a vote until enough legislators are on board.

The billionaire mayor has lobbied Republican senators, for whom he is a major campaign funder, but no senator has committed to switching camps.

"As other states recognize the rights of same-sex couples to marry, we cannot stand by and watch," Bloomberg said Thursday in a Manhattan address. "To do so would be to betray our civic values and history – and it would harm our competitive edge in the global economy."

___

Associated Press writers Samantha Gross in New York and Patrick Condon in St. Paul, Minn., contributed to this report.

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PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- A flurry of activity in efforts to legally recognize gay relationships or ban same-sex marriage is reminding advocates that even though polls indicate growing acceptance, the debat...
PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- A flurry of activity in efforts to legally recognize gay relationships or ban same-sex marriage is reminding advocates that even though polls indicate growing acceptance, the debat...
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06:50 PM on 06/10/2011
Every time that we publish the phrase Gay Marriage, we continue to promote prejudice. It is "marriage equality".

Randall K.
AlterPride Project
12:09 PM on 06/03/2011
The sole legal purpose of marriage is to establish kinship where none existed previously. EVERYTHING else is personal.
11:57 PM on 06/05/2011
Fair enough. But kinship isn't gender-specific.
07:20 AM on 06/01/2011
HELLO WORLD. IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THE WORLD THINK, EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO MARRY WHO THEY WANT TO, WERE ALL HUMANS....
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
12:20 AM on 06/01/2011
What is the problem with the right wingers? No one is asking them to marry someone of the same sex. What is it with their vitriol and rage around this issue? I could see if we were seeking to make it the ONLY form of marriage they way they have with straight marriage. They don't have to see them (although it would hardly hurt them to see some more love in this world) or participate in them if they do not choose to. There will be new businesses springing up to service GLBT weddings. Oh and above all, they don't have to marry someone of the same sex.There, see how easy that is?

As for whining that Christian business owners will be sued...don't enter into contracts you don't mean to keep. And don't have venues you claim are open to the general public to get some kind of break, then seek to exclude a GLBT couple that wants to use the venue. GLBT people ARE part of the general public in this country.

Why is this important? Because GLBT people are not going to sit back and take being discriminated against as they used to do. No one says you have to like us. Just don't discriminate and expect us to meekly take it. That is not happening.
01:34 AM on 06/06/2011
If we can get married, it's less likely they'll be able to find desperate gay men with whom to play footsie at the airport, or lift luggage for them!
01:47 PM on 05/31/2011
"They think the old folks will just die out and they'll win this with the young people," he said. "Maybe for a season. But I believe we will see young people say, `Wait a second. This was an awful social experiment.' You have to take the long view."

... How is my relationship with my boyfriend a 'social experiment'? I'm not asking anybody else to get involved (I'm not that kind of guy). Just to treat us like any other couple. It's a completely personal and private matter who I fall in love with, and it demeans everyone, straight and gay alike, when we allow people like this to frame marriage as exclusively social rather than the very personal decision that it is.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
02:40 AM on 06/01/2011
Well-said, American in Taipei. It should be nobody's business as long as the couple is consenting and of age. Marriage is a very personal decision and there is no reason not to provide legal civil marriage as long as three conditions are met: 1) couple is of age 2) the relationship is consensual
3) the couple is not too closely related. This would cover pretty much all relationships.

I get really insulted at this infantalising us to the point of not wanting to allow us marriage. It's unAmerican and it is disgusting. They certainly would never tolerate it being done to them.
09:00 PM on 06/01/2011
The same arguments are infantilising to straight people too! But I guess as long as they have their rights, they don't care?

For example, courts have ruled in the past that straight couples are unique because they can "irresponsibly procreate". By this logic, marriage exists because the government doesn't trust you to wait til you're ready to pop out a kid. That's pretty infantilising to straight couples who do really want marriage.
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
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rextrek
50yr old, Moderate-liberal in S.NJ/Phila
09:36 AM on 05/31/2011
There is NO Debate - Equal Rights ARE Equal RIGHTS - period. Gays/Lesbians ARE Being Married by the 1000's.....its NOT gonna stop, can the haters slow it down, ...sure..but they aint stoppin it......
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
11:53 PM on 05/31/2011
Amen to THAT, rextrek--and the more the better! This is some of the silliest debating I have ever seen. The haters have either a Bronze Age Book, questionable "reasearch" from groups such as NARTH, or "if we allow marriage to gays X,Y, and/or Z will happen". Only problem is that in countries and states already have marriage equality, X,Y, and/or Z have not happened and they are not likely to. And you are right: the best they can do is to slow it down, not stop it.
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Gyrlznluv
It's Not What They Call U,It's What U Answer too!
07:34 AM on 05/31/2011
It is NOT right to make every other American conform to any religious beliefs.

I’m NOT asking any church to marry me,
I’m asking MY STATE to allow me the same right as any other citizen,
a marriage license issued by the state.
The churches with their religious beliefs can mind their own business.
They do not own the word "MARRIAGE"
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Tom Iarossi
A proudly progressive veteran and educator
09:06 AM on 05/31/2011
You are correct. Marriage is a state issue, churches do weddings. No church will be forced to perform a marriage for anyone, just as a Roman Catholic church is not forced to officiate the wedding of Mormons or vice versa.

But the main point is human rights. Until everyone can marry, rights are being denied to them. And granting those rights takes nothing away from anyone else.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
12:37 AM on 06/01/2011
This is the silly thing about it. Actually it is a pernicious lie. The Constitution would not allow couples to force a church that does wish to marry them to do so. The religious fanatics know this, but constantly bring this up and want language to that effect put in every bill. Even when it is they scream and carry on. It is time for them to be told in no uncertain terms: MYOB. They can continue to be hateful and we can marry at a justice of the peace or in a church that will gladly marry us...or any religion that will marry us.

You are right. They do not own the word and it is time to start making that very clear.
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Atwill
Proud Father of a gay son.
08:45 PM on 05/30/2011
Biaknour. earlier says that gays are more likley to have a mental illness. Well, as a nurse in psych and the parent of a gay kid (who was BORN that way) I am totally insulted by this remark. do you ever think that the reason some (Some ) gay people have mental problems, is becasue of you? Yes, you are the problem. Let's say you are a kid, 10, 12. And yes gays know this young they are gay. And you have wack a doodle parents who take you to a wack a doodle church. and all the time you hear "Gays are an abomination. going toburn." Then you hear it from your parents, friends, family. You get bombarded with negitive sterotypes. Then if you do come out, you aretold you are evil, abomination, God hates you. And you think this will not effec a person? When my kidcame out I told me that if anyone told him this, no matter who it was, another kid, an adult, a teacher, a minister, no matter who, I told him to tell that person to "F OFF". And I would back him no matter what.
09:12 PM on 05/30/2011
Wonderful. Would fan you again, if I could. Faved.
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Atwill
Proud Father of a gay son.
11:01 PM on 05/30/2011
Thanks. It just Ts me off that people think gays have a mental illness. It was taken out of the DSM 1. We are now on the DSM 4. Being a religious wack a doodle is the mental illness.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
12:10 AM on 05/31/2011
Thank you, Atwill. With all the antigay bgotry out there, I am surprised that MORE of us don't have serious problems. And you are right, by twelve I had a pretty good idea that I was Gay. I have gone through all the nonsense you mention. I also had alcoholic parents so I have FAS and CP as well. But I will not let these haters get me down.

Good advice to your kid and even better you will back him regardless.
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Fogy
RIP, ignorance
05:57 PM on 05/30/2011
"Marriage" isn't about love.
You can be in love and not be married.
You can be married and not be in love.

"Marriage" isn't about sex.
You can have sex and not be married.
You can be married and not have sex.

"Marriage" isn't about children.
You can have children and not be married.
You can be married and not have children.

"Marriage" isn't about religion.
You can be an atheist and be married.
You can be married without a preacher.

"Marriage" isn't about vows.
You can make vows without being married.
You can be married without vows, only an affirmatio­n; "I do".

"Marriage" isn't about rings.
You can wear rings without being married.
You can be married without exchanging rings.

Supporters and h8ters both need to learn what marriage ISN'T before trying to argue what it IS.

Marriage is legally only about property, citizenshi­p, kinship and inheritanc­e. The marriage license is an applicatio­n for State and Federal benefits granted a specific class of people. All arguments about love, romance, reproducti­on, religious dogma, tradition and family values are PERSONAL MYTHOLOGY and cultural ignorance of the legal fiction called marriage.

Religion doesn't own marriage. The State owns it and is constituti­onally mandated to offer it to all couples.

Denying US Citizens benefits granted others on the basis of their sexual orientatio­n is unconstitu­tional. Denying gays benefits because they offend the sensibilit­ies of bigots is no more valid than denying the bigots the same benefits because "I" am offended by them.
07:37 PM on 05/30/2011
fanned and faved for bringing a breath of logic to this always emotionally charged discussion
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blueeyedbull
A sense of humor is one of the most sexy qualities
07:45 PM on 05/30/2011
Excellent post Fogy. Faved.
03:13 PM on 05/30/2011
Since when is 'debating' OTHER PEOPLE'S rights and freedoms an American thing?
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napolis
project yourself here
06:22 PM on 05/30/2011
I don't know, since the 1780s when it was decided that black people didn't have rights and freedoms?
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Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
09:40 AM on 05/31/2011
Sadly, you're right. We have tended to honor our prejudices more than our ideals.
04:46 PM on 05/31/2011
Yes, but we have evolved as a nation and as a people, now we look back on those days with shame. Prejudice against our homosexual brothers and sisters is doomed to go the same way as racial prejudice. In 100 years, no, in 10 years, we'll look back at this so called debate with shame, because this is not a hard choice with two equally valid outcomes. No, this is as black and white as it gets in this complex gray world of ours. Everyone should have the same civil rights from the government. Period.
02:27 PM on 05/30/2011
opposing ANY single groups right to all the freedoms that America is supposed to be about is simply announcing that you support a non-free America... medical jargon, biblical jargon, or even personal opinion does not matter... this is America and if same sex couple want to get married that is the pursuit of THEIR happiness. Be logical, not judgmental.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
02:55 PM on 05/30/2011
Fanned and faved. Well-said. However, I don't think the haters will ever be logical about this. We are about the only group left that they can discriminate against and withhold rights from. We harm no one and our right to legal civil marriage does not in the least affect their lives, but that does not matter. They lay burdens on us which they would not willingly bear for even a few moments.
06:17 PM on 05/30/2011
How very true! Trying to be reasonable with people whose belief system is drive by fear and control only gets circular and pointless. What is troubling is the reality that they believe their opinions are FACTS. They get the two so intertwined that Reason gets lost in their stormy mental climate.
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BurtonDesque
Fear a Blank Planet
12:58 PM on 05/30/2011
Being from Massachusetts, I have to say that we have trouble here anymore understanding what all the fuss is about.
03:14 PM on 05/30/2011
We KNEW that would happen. Treat people equally and somehow, the issue goes away. It's the way things are supposed to be anyway.
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UserNameJane
Does my micro bio make my butt look big
07:22 PM on 05/31/2011
You still need to be fighting for Federal recogition.
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PrdAmerican
Unitarian Universalist - True Acceptance :)
12:36 PM on 05/30/2011
I'd like to take a moment to remember that Gay men and women have died in service to this country so that people like baikonur can spew their idiotic hate and ignorance. Our gay service members who, to this day, will not enjoy the SAME benefits as their heterosexual counterparts (family housing, death benefits, retirement benefits, etc.). We are NOT yet equal...not by a long shot...DOMA, Marriage Equality, and Feds refusal to acknowledge marriages that ARE legal and sanctioned in certain States reeks of a 21st century way of having Jim Crow become Gay Crow. This country has ALOT of growing up to do.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
01:02 PM on 05/30/2011
Agreed. Sad that we are STILL fighting this battle in the second decade of the 21st Century.
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WheelsOnFire
Fiercely Independent
01:19 PM on 05/30/2011
Well said, PrdAmerican.

It is so sad that, in this country that was supposedly founded upon freedom and equality for all, it does not exist.

This country is more like India, with its social class system. Full rights for straights, no rights for gays.
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Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
02:48 AM on 05/31/2011
I think we could say that in some quarters we are America's untouchables.
11:57 AM on 05/30/2011
""There's a special status when you say `my wife,' and civil unions don't give that," said Annie Cronin-Silva, of West Warwick, who married a woman in neighboring Massachusetts in 2008."

As was the case in California, and despite the claims, this was never an issue about equal benefits that have been denied.
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Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
12:22 PM on 05/30/2011
So you think she speaks for all homosexuals everywhere?
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jbrantow
12:34 PM on 05/30/2011
She speaks for a lot of the GLBT community. What business is it of you're what one spouse calls the other. Marriage does not equal a civil union. Not even close.
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jbrantow
12:41 PM on 05/30/2011
Angel-read your comment the wrong way, ignore my previous comment. Thanks
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EmmaDarian
All in all, I'm loving every rise and fall (RHCP)
04:43 PM on 05/30/2011
It is about equality, of which equal benefits are a part, but only a part. If you can't ride on the same bus as other people, yeah, you want a seat on the bus. And maybe you take that right so you can get where you're going while you work toward equality, which is being able to choose any seat you like, just like everyone else.
11:19 AM on 06/01/2011
Currently, anyone can ride on the bus. Where the problem lies is that some people want to remove the wheels of the bus before they ride. Their desire denies the bus its destination, its essential core purpose.