Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen: The Apple, Flash Feud Is Finished

Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen took the stage at All Things D's annual conference in Palos Verdes, California, and spoke to his company's goals within the evolving web. He also spent a good deal of time defending Flash, Adobe's widely used and heavily criticized multimedia software.

Host Walt Mossberg grilled Narayen about the quality of Flash-based video on Android devices. But Narayen insisted that "Flash is really a small part of the company."

Nevertheless, Narayen assured the audience that Apple's famous feud with Adobe is as good as dead.

Shortly after the release of the iPad, Steve Jobs came out strongly against Flash and stated that the platform was not fit for use on portable devices, in particular Apple's iDevices, which block Flash content.

But Narayen, at the D9 conference on Thursday, told Mossberg that Apple's disapproval of Flash had less to do with quality and more to do with Apple's "business model."

"It's control over the app store that's at issue here," Narayen told Walt Mossberg, according to All Things D. We allow people to author once and get as wide as distribution as possible. ...If you build in Flash, you can run the apps on other platforms."

However, he noted that Flash developers aren't blocked from distributing their content through Apple to Apple customers. For example, Narayen pointed out that developers may use Adobe's AIR software as a bridge between the Adobe and Apple platforms.

"If you can build apps using our tools, and if you run it through AIR, it can be in the App Store," said Narayen.

Narayen also said the advent of HTML 5, a new web standard that integrates support for videos into web pages, will be a boon to Adobe.

"We welcome the evolution to HTML 5, and are actively contributing to it," he stated.

"At the end of the day, where Adobe makes its money is through our application tools, as well as our solutions, (and) being able to make that content and measure that content and manage that content," he went on to say, according to the Wall Street Journal.

Comments

[Richard Lauren]

10:47 PM on 06/05/2011

It is about time that developers were free to create apps without having to ask permission, learn a proprietary framework and then pay 30% before tax to Apple and Google etc. who are 'just protecting their business models'.

How is this good for technology or society?

The silly thing is it is not the developers who are paying these 'pipers'. It is us, the end users paying again and again through grossly inflated prices for digital wares and as we are systematically robbed of our freedom of choice.

[raechel]

03:58 PM on 06/04/2011

It's a sad thing. Every time I download a Flash update, half of my software (ordinary stuff -- Firefox, BitDefender, etc.) crashes for a few weeks.

WTH? What's wrong with Adobe?

[moozungu]

11:57 AM on 06/04/2011

If Steve Jobs really had any credibility with his Rant against Flash, he would have said his piece and the let users do what they wanted to do. In other words the market should decided what technology stays and goes not some device maker who decides it doesn't fit with their business strategy. It sets a really bad precedent when a company promotes a "secret garden"/closed environment product in order to divide the market for personal gain. Jobs legion of admires seem to totally dimiss this even though in the end it will be bad for them as end users. I really think alot of the people who go bat-$**t when ever you say flash works great on my Android or that flash is a great tool when it's used right, take it as a personal assault. Apple marketing has taken pompous to a whole new level after a decade of commercials that claim that those who buy mac products are smarter, more sophisticated, and true technologist if they purchase high priced mac products. It really worked, Mac turned the ownership of a brand of technology into a matter of whether or not one is part of the cool kids clique.

[fairplaystacy]

12:32 PM on 06/04/2011

Oh well, you know what they say about opinions.....

[Richard Lauren]

10:49 PM on 06/05/2011

Yes, some contribute to the discussion and others contribute nothing.

Which is yours?

[Richard Lauren]

10:50 PM on 06/05/2011

"the market should decided what technology stays and goes not some device maker who decides it doesn't fit with their business strategy."

Now that would be a refreshing change.

[AlFeldzamen]

08:01 AM on 06/04/2011

It's not just FLASH. As a decades-long Apple booster, one who bought the original Mac, the
Lisa, upgraded through the decades that followed, promoted the Mac to all my friends, etc., I am still dismayed by Apple's illiterate stance against so-called porn and "defamatory" material, and ALSO the fact that their mobile devices won't run Firefox, Google Chrome, Camino (my favorite browser) . . just due to Steve Jobs ignorance and arrogance.

[CrimsonIdol]

10:11 PM on 06/03/2011

If flash is going to be the death knell of iPad then why is it with all the "competitors" offerings that all proclaim that "we play flash" aren't selling? If there are SO many tablets that are "way better than iPad" because "iPad can't play flash" why is it that Apple has 70% of the tablet market?

Just because you're too ignorant to know that you can play flash on iPads doesn't mean you can't, I'm waiting on the big "iPad killer" to arrive. :-)

[fairplaystacy]

12:33 PM on 06/04/2011

iKnow!

[zelduh]

02:30 PM on 06/04/2011

I have both an iPad 2 and an Adam Android tablet. I LOVE my iPad. I REALLY do. I take it everywhere with me. Android has a way to go before it can effectively compete as far as ease of use and all the apps, but I believe it will get there.

That being said, it soooo ticks me off that I cannot see flash on my iPad. And, on that issue primarily (price also playing a part), I believe that Android is going to catch up and eventually take over the iPad.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong. (I've been wrong before.)

☺

[psychmaj323]

08:14 PM on 06/03/2011

I don't know the inner workings of flash, all I want is to be able to watch Flash video content. I can't watch a lot of stuff because a lot of it is in FLASH!!!

[zelduh]

02:31 PM on 06/04/2011

Agreed.
Fanned.
Faved.

[SoCalNick]

12:43 PM on 06/03/2011

Jobs lost all credibility ( and his mind ) when he broke down like a 5 year old and showed his true colors with that rant about "the only reason ANYONE wanted flash and not HIS stuff was because they all just wanted PORN!!"

He jumped the Shark , guppy , Shamu AND Charlie the Tuna with that one.

Jobs can't control it, dictate it = it is BAD!

Even the most ardent fans of his had to grimace at that one... But they will never admit it though.

That is all

[traveler291]

10:11 AM on 06/03/2011

if there's one truism it's flash is the most misunderstood utility used in development. many of the critics only think it's a tool for building a full and complete fancy web site that is often slow-loading with annoying embedded music.

what they don't realize is there are many sites that use flash to embed dynamic content within their html to create a dynamic user experience.

need an example? try going to cisco's site...certainly a tech giant that understands presenting their value statements in the most dynamic form.

as for html5, well, that too is facing a stumbling block in the standards department...thanks to apple. which confirms it isn't just about flash steve jobs hates, it's more about the ego of content control.

those who hate flash and want its demise "right now" are clearly not as tech savvy as they are the lemmings apple portrayed in their early marketing...

[WalterDog]

09:08 AM on 06/03/2011

Install iSwifter 3.0 on your iPad and Flash apps run great.

[WalterDog]

09:05 AM on 06/03/2011

As a multimedia professional, I love Flash. There is no other application that has the verstility that it has. The ability to do cross-platform apps that are browser independent is unmatched. In the integration of multiple levels of media so far no application comes close.

[dblan9]

07:40 AM on 06/03/2011

As a Video Professional I have to say Flash is a disaster as a format. It is so difficult to convert to any other format cleanly. I would rather work with MPEG2 and that is awful. But most people don't intend on needing to convert their flash content and it seems to work very well in many circumstances. Apple has issues with Adobe personally. When Adobe jumped ship and began designing Windows based products in the 90's, Apple said they would rue the day they left Apple for Microsoft.

[CaptainObvvious]

07:43 AM on 06/03/2011

It doesn't matter how good or bad Flash is.

If your opinion is that it isn't good then the anti Apple robots here will just call you a fanboy or a robot. The only way to not be a conformist robot is to completely agree with them.

[PhillyKing]

11:51 AM on 06/03/2011

If your opinion is that it isn't good then the anti Apple robots here will just call you a fanboy or a robot. The only way to not be a conformist robot is to completely agree with them

Coming from you this is a riot... ur the biggest, and i do mean BIGGEST fanboi on this site.

[RevSpaminator]

02:27 PM on 06/03/2011

What are you talking about? I'm a huge Android fan and I'll say Flash sucks, even as a desktop technology. What sucks even more is not having a choice. I don't like bloatware on my phone (which is why I run custom firmware) and I don't like being told I can't load my choice of software. Exactly how does rallying for personal choice make me a robot? (And if so, those are some VERY advanced robots!)

[Frobozz0]

10:17 AM on 06/03/2011

I think the concept that Apple has issues with Adobe is fantasy. Corporations are out to make money for their shareholders. The way Apple makes the most money is by controlling the user experience on the software and hardware side. Flash does not mesh with Apples mobile strategy. Controlling the user ecosystem delivers the best possible experience, which sells more products and, in turn more apps. The more apps they sell you that only run on iOS, the more likely you are to see that as an investment in that platform. You are then less likely to be fickle about switching platforms.

At the end of the day, Apple uses a lot of Adobe products in their own products, but only when it makes sense. Postscript is Adobe-- Apple was and still is one of the best implementers of Postscript. PDF-- the foundation of much of Apple's display technology, is an Adobe technology. And let's not forget that the Adobe Creative Suite arguably runs best on Apple hardware. All of those scenarios are beneficial to Apple because they make Apple money selling systems. Flash on iOS would not.

[RevSpaminator]

02:31 PM on 06/03/2011

Wonderful, you've just argued for limiting personal choice to enhance the corporate bottom line. A certain Italian leader from the 20th century would be so proud of you.

[CaptainObvvious]

07:36 AM on 06/03/2011

Adobe swore that Flash was fit for mobile devices back in 2007...

Here we are 4 years later and it still sucks on mobile devices.

[LifeWitness]

08:26 AM on 06/03/2011

Flash works perfectly on my Android. I have no idea what more you could want from Flash. Apple users are funny- iPhones couldn't make phone calls and they were still defending them.

[CaptainObvvious]

09:12 AM on 06/03/2011

When couldn't iPhones make phone calls?

I have been using an iPhone 4 on AT

[CaptainObvvious]

09:14 AM on 06/03/2011

When couldn't iPhones make calls?

Are you referring to the antenna "issue" that doesn't actually affect anyone in actual every day use?

I have never used a bumper and have had the iPhone 4 on ATT since the day before launch and have never dropped a call on my end EVER.

I don't use a bumper and neither does my boss, my wife or my bother and we never have issues.

But you read that is is possible to mess with reception if you do something under the right conditions so you decide to be hyperbolic and basically lie about the capability of the phone.

[Andre Fabre]

06:56 AM on 06/03/2011

Apple has learned from Micro$oft and its creed; it's my way or the highway. I'd rather support Open Source platforms.

[SanityForOnce]

03:31 AM on 06/03/2011

And people thought Apple was crazy when they dropped the floppy disc in favor of CD drives.

Jobs knows when it's time to more forward, even if it's upsetting to some. Flash has had its day, but that's in the past now. Its a buggy processor hog and it's time to move on.

[Sunzuki]

04:23 AM on 06/03/2011

We both know you wouldn't be saying that if it was on your iPhone.

[keithut]

04:57 AM on 06/03/2011

There has to be a lot of rationalization to buy Apple.. like.. "the chicks will dig it!" or "it is better than what everyone else uses as it is revolutionary... err. ya!!" or my fav.. "bleeding edge tech man!".

[keithut]

04:55 AM on 06/03/2011

Flash runs great on my Droid. Weeee....

[CrimsonIdol]

05:17 AM on 06/03/2011

Flash runs on iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad, you just have to use FireFox 360 but hey have fun with your 3 apps

[Frobozz0]

10:27 AM on 06/03/2011

No, it doesn't. It runs. It doesn't run great.

[BillClay]

03:07 AM on 06/03/2011

Flash is everywhere. It's a fact of life. Pretending it doesn't exist just makes Apple look foolish.

[max08]

03:53 AM on 06/03/2011

Apple is so far ahead of the Adobe curve, it's not funny. Adobe is full of aging guys who can't accept the future. Anyone who has worked as a Beta tester for Adobe can tell you that. They are stuck in the 20th C.

[keithut]

04:59 AM on 06/03/2011

Keep telling yourself that as those old dev types at Adobe continue to make good money making Flash Apps. Cheers.

[MobileSQA]

01:56 PM on 06/03/2011

LOLOLOL, I work on De Anza Blvd next door to Apple...they have more people who are older than dirt than HP. Apple only lets you see the young ones in advertising.

Adobe is in the heart of College town in Downtown San Jose....that building is full of under 50's

[dtrobert]

07:12 AM on 06/03/2011

No it's not. It's used for ONLY two things: video (why???) and games. Flash video players will die in the next 2 years as HTML5 becomes the norm. And games? I don't think Apple has anything to worry about...

No, I think it's Flash that's dead. It really has no reason for being in an HTML5 world.

[MobileSQA]

01:57 PM on 06/03/2011

Guess you missed the memo...HTML5 fell on it's face in standards. Apple wants too much say and everyone else said FU.

Keep up with the news fool