Parent 'Trigger Law' In New York Would Allow Parents To Fire Teachers, Principals

A proposed state law would give New York parents significantly more power over their children's schools.

The so called "trigger law" would allow parents who gather a majority at any persistently failing school to either fire 50 percent of the teachers, fire the principal, close the school or turn it into a charter school.

From TIME:

When people first hear about the radical-sounding law, they are almost always taken aback. But what they might not know is that failing schools can already be shut down by school districts under the No Child Left Behind law. The parent trigger simply takes the option provided to the school board and hands the power to the parents

Carl Korn, a spokesman for New York State United Teachers, said parents should be involved in education decisions, but their participation should come before the school is failing.

"We think the time to involve parents is before a school is identified [as persistently lowest-achieving]. Allowing a petition by parents would ignore the research, the other stakeholders, and leave the decision open to politics. Would we have an election-style campaign where we have advertising and mailings and money being spent on both sides, lobbying parents?"

The legislative effort in New York is similar to one waged in California last year. Parents used the state's recently passed trigger law to try to force McKinley Elementary, a failing Compton school, to become a charter school.

McKinley Elementary ranks in the bottom 10 percent of California's elementary schools.

Comments

[Joanne Hughes Emanuele]

05:55 PM on 07/25/2011

There are many excellent educators but perhaps this would prompt more educators on all levels to approach their jobs with more respect.

[Dahveed1]

01:02 AM on 06/17/2011

This sounds reasonable to me. If a school is consistently failing something clearly needs to be done.

My opinion of the local schools here is that teachers, staff, etc only want parents to be involved with raising money and planning parties. They DON'T want any parent contributing to the curriculum of the class or school.

[Andman0121]

12:49 PM on 06/17/2011

LOL this is the most ridiculous post about education I have literally ever heard. Let me take over since I'm a...what do you call it?...TEACHER.

This is NOT reasonable at all. If a school is consistently failing that does not necessarily mean the teachers are not doing their jobs. There are a multitude of factors include socio-economic disparities, trouble at home, uninvolved parents, and, HECK, lazy students!

My PROFESSIONAL opinion of the local schools nationwide is that teachers, staff, etc. want to be able to do their job while not being blamed for things out of their control. We are not your lazy kid's parents, you are. If a school is in a poor, urban center then it is completely understandable they receive lower scores. How is that my fault??

And why in the world would we want parents contributing to curriculum planning?? Genius, we are the professionals who develop curricula not the parents who know nothing of it. If we let it up to the parents then we would have a multitude of nonsense, easy subject material and irrelevant content standards. AGAIN, let us do our jobs and understand that we aren't miracle workers. And btw, have you ever considered that kids are just getting lazier lately? Because I see it every single day in my classroom as well as many others.

[hell in a bucket]

04:25 AM on 06/20/2011

Why not go to a voucher system? That way, families can go to your school where teachers can't get fired. Other families can send their kids to schools where the teachers can be fired.

[sdmcmla]

01:58 AM on 06/21/2011

"If a school is in a poor, urban center then it is completely understand­able they receive lower scores. How is that my fault?? " Really? Are you serious? You think that you have an excuse for failure to teach because you are teaching poor students? There are a multitude of schools aound the country, and the world, where poor, urban students are excelling academically. The fact that you are a teacher and think you can use your student's relative poverty as an excuse for failure demonstrates that you are not too sharp and are, more likely than not, a pretty bad teacher. Time for you to move on. Do your students a favor and go and teach some of those wealthy kids who in your understanding are entitled to have better scores. After all, they are wealthy, right, they will get good scores anyway. So how much harm can one teacher of minimal intellect do?

[Schoolgal]

05:38 PM on 06/17/2011

Really? In NYC parents sit on the School Leadership Committee and they had a lot of input, as did teachers, until Bloomberg took that away. As for what teachers want...we are never part of the decision-making equation. I had a very hard time getting a "class parent" because they all worked or did not speak English. I had to reach out for volunteers for trips because no one was able to come forward. The days of the 1950's are gone. Students have either both parents working or live in a single-parent house. The economy is getting worse and the stresses on both parents, students and teachers are increasing. This so-called law was started by the for-profit charter movement. Charters are not working and those that are are doing so because they can easily expel any student not making the grade. So not very reasonable in the long run.

[Keth30]

11:24 PM on 06/16/2011

My son is autistic. He went to one public school in my area who was clearly not meeting ANY of his needs. After countless meetings, advocates, IEP's, etc. NOTHING was done to help him. The school viewed him as a problem "child" and treated him as such.

He would cry every day before and after school. Finally, after exhausting every avenue, I decided to homeschool him, something I really didn't want to do becaue he really needed the social interaction of other kids. We did this for one year, and decided he was becoming too enclosed within himself.

We petitioned for a different public school this year and got in. Immediately, all of the things that were supposed to be implemented in the other school were immediately implemented at this "new" school. They put him in special Education and gradually mainstreamed him into regular classes thoughout the year. He went to two school danced over the course of the year, became a much happier citizen, and at the end of the year received the "Student of the Year" award. We are so proud of him!

The moral of this story is, yes, teachers and principals do matter. It was the difference between the two public schools in the same district. I may have thought differently about this article a few years ago, but today, it's the parents who see whats going on first hand. I don't have any problem with the parents having at least some say in this matter.

[Dahveed1]

01:04 AM on 06/17/2011

I'm glad this last year went better for you. School is a personal service. The teachers and staff makes all the difference between a poor performing school and an excellent one.

[Andman0121]

12:51 PM on 06/17/2011

Your story is missing funding. Did the school before have less of it than the school afterwards (probably).

[Keth30]

01:17 PM on 06/17/2011

I'm not sure how the funding works, but the schools were in the same district, within a few miles of each other. The first school has only been opened for 3 years, but with a veteran principal. The second school, the school where he is flourishing, is much, much older.

[nypoet22]

01:01 PM on 06/16/2011

corporate types want more public schools closed and privatized. not enough school boards are doing this, so they try to get parents to do it instead.

[Dahveed1]

01:09 AM on 06/17/2011

Damn those parents that want their kids taught! Whats wrong with them to expect their kids to learn something at school? They should just shut up and continue to send their brats to the failing school. Freedom from choice, that's what they need...

So corporate types are somehow causing 50% of the kids to fail and then inciting the parents? No, corporate types are seeing the failure of some schools and districts to do their job and offering an alternative. Parents are already pissed at poor performing schools, teachers, and principals. This just gives them some power to do something about it. I welcome this change.

[nypoet22]

08:23 AM on 06/17/2011

extremely few educators aren't doing their very best for the children they work with, while corporate types are using their media influence to misrepresent the data. when invalid standardized tests are used as the main criterion to decide which school is good and which isn't, it's easy to make some pretty excellent public schools seem like they're "failing," and some pretty sketchy charters seem like a giant success.

if systems of school "choice" showed any consistent evidence of real success, i'd support it wholeheartedly. so far, the only apparent positive results for privatization have been a few isolated, extremely well-funded cases like HCZ, or glorified test-prep, or outright cheating. when compared to their neighboring public schools, twice as many charters perform worse than better. for whatever reason, advocates of "choice" rarely make very good choices.

[P Alan Greene]

09:38 AM on 06/16/2011

Once again, the intent is to silence the voice of every taxpayer who is not sending a child to school, and the insidious message embedded in the debate is that schools exist to provide child care for parents, not to provide the foundation to create citizens, employees, neighbors, and professionals on whom the whole society depends (include those members of society who do not have children in school). This is truly taxation without representation.

[Dahveed1]

01:16 AM on 06/17/2011

What? Please leave now and go lower some other countries average IQ instead of ours.

I'm guessing you don't have kids and resent paying a single cent to educate anyone. You'd be happy if they taught kids at factory schools where they used kids as slave labor like they did in the "good ole days."

You'd only be happy with spending the bare minimum for schooling, but then would be the biggest whiner when the kids were out in the street and not in school.

Education is important and if you're not aware enough to recognize that, then LEAVE and go to a place that agrees with your valuation of education.

[P Alan Greene]

08:13 AM on 06/17/2011

Debate on these sorts of issues would work so much better if people actually listened. If, for instance, you had read what I actually wrote instead of jumping based on pre-conceived notions of what the sides of this debate must look like, your reply might have made sense.

The one part that you got right is where you wrote "I'm guessing."

Look, think it through, because there's a point behind plans like the trigger laws. It puts the control of the school district solely in the parents, and that is bad long term.

Say thirty percent of your taxpayers are parents. They get to decide what happens with schools. The other seventy percent of the taxpayers are still voters, who will have only one way to express their discontentment.

Put another way-- the district's parents can say "This is what we want the school to be like" but it's all those other disenfranchised voters who can say, "Fine. Do it on a budget of $1.50."

Never mind that taking away their voices is wrong. It's also likely to be unhealthy for schools.

[eyeforeye42]

05:03 AM on 06/16/2011

It is due! Problem with firing 50% of the teachers is that it must go after the incompetent which may also have the longest tenure. Who picks the 50%? Need to change union rules in the state to the union is the employeer providing the competent workers, not the school with this 5th column preventing reform. If you join a union, you work for them!. So that allows schools to competitively bid for labor and for them to remove unfit labor by telling the union hall that this person is not acceptable. Let the union pay for that persons unemployment or training!

[n2zyk]

06:18 AM on 06/16/2011

no you work FOR the school, and pay the Union for the pleasure of doing so. Your paying ..supposidly..for them doing your bargaining for you not the job.

[Tauna Rogers]

12:46 AM on 06/16/2011

Divisive corporate ed reform. Pit parents against parents, parents against teachers, teachers against parents, schools against schools. Divide and conquer, a recipe for disaster.

I suspect astroturf behind this, hardly grassroots in origin.

[n2zyk]

06:19 AM on 06/16/2011

For to long the teachers unions have had a stranglehold on what and how the kids have been taught. It's about time the parents get some of that control back.

[P Alan Greene]

09:31 AM on 06/16/2011

What about businesses, employers, neighbors, grandparents, etc? Why should parents have the final word while all other stakeholders and taxpayers are silenced?

[Tauna Rogers]

02:47 PM on 06/16/2011

Sorry n2zyk, but it is immensely wealthy and (by virtue of their money) powerful big business interests that are controlling what and how kids are taught in our schools via high stakes testing and standardization.

But I sure support parents. Here's a link to a great parent organization that does its homework about the dominant ed reform narrative and the corporate takeover of public education in our nation: http://parentsacrossamerica.org/

[kkdtoro]

12:45 PM on 06/16/2011

This is America in the new century - notice how the wealthy are untouched? Rather than working together we are destroying our selves. It is working at all levels.

[Jo Anne Kelly Richards]

12:06 AM on 06/16/2011

There is plenty of room for parents to take responsibility in many areas of their children's education. How many times has your child's school experience been so isolating that you thought about Home Schooling? How many experiences have you had when you knew your child was learning based on his or her excellent class grades, unit test grades, project grades, State Standard Test Grades, yet they were penalized because the Home Work grade was weighted too heavily, 25%, 35% and more for some classes? How often was your child detained from his ENTIRE first period class because he travels interborough and was 10 minutes (or less) late. How often was your child made to stand outside the Main Office, Spread Eagle against the wall until second period....missing the class he was struggling with the most? How often was your child sent out of the building to miss class time because he left his school authorized dress shoes at Chelsea Piers (their off site gym site)? Parents have an obligation and a right to partner and officiate in the education of their children

[gilbskg]

11:06 PM on 06/15/2011

I'm all for parental involvement. However, will that mean that I will have the power to fire them when they send their children to school without breakfast, school supplies, a sense of right and wrong? Didn't think so.

[sdmcmla]

01:11 AM on 06/17/2011

Lift your pinkie and dial Child Protective Services. Unless that's too much trouble.

[been2there]

12:10 AM on 06/20/2011

Child protective services will not deal with anything less than broken bones--they are too underfunded.
When my daughter was in first grade, I was with the PTA. One little boy kept passing out. We investigated, and it turned out that he was getting two younger children ready for school while Mom slept in, and, as a result, didn't have time to eat. When he hit a growth spurt, he couldn't keep going. CPS was called, and did nothing. Or, as I was told, "I have too many kids with broken bones to worry about."
The PTA kept food in the Nurse's office for him. Not much of a solution, but the best we could do.

[Jannis Glover]

10:32 PM on 06/15/2011

One of the provisions of this law if passed must be that teachers have the right to fire parents; you know the ones who,

• never show up for conferences or answer the teacher's phone calls,
• or send their children to school without the proper supplies,
• or never make sure that their children are completing their homework,
• or make sure that they get adequate meals and sleep,
• or make sure that they even come to school every day,
• or sell drugs in their homes,
• or have a variety of unsavory men/women hanging around
• or who hang out partying all night long with their children home alone
• or who verbally/physically abuse their children
• or… - I could go on and on because I am a teacher.

I have experienced all of these scenarios and many more. Parents firing teachers? Not without teachers being able to fire parents!

[gilbskg]

11:07 PM on 06/15/2011

I wish I'd waited to read you post before adding my comment, because you did a heck of a lot better! Well said, and sadly true of my experiences as well.

[Jannis Glover]

11:23 PM on 06/15/2011

Thanks! I am glad to know that we are kindred spirits!

[kejavas]

05:12 AM on 06/16/2011

I agree except consider please that: When I did not show up for a conference, it was because my x wife never told me because she wanted toplay supermom when she really is not. Men are typically made to go and ask for what is sent hom with the student. The courts do not care which parent is better for the child and usually give the custodial rights to the "mom" and the man pays a lot of money, quite always way too much.
To your point-- Yes, there are many more parents that are eggo or sperm donors than there are caring and good parents and academics are way more competitive and demanding that when most parents were in school themselves. Most cannot do the math past 8th or 9th grade and then you have the textbook companies producing books changing out history and trying to introduce books like Sally has two mommies, etc. My child now in 9th grade tells me about the teacher she has for World History that talks down about the USA and how great her native country of India is......the things my child repeats to me makes me want to have her fired and I am powerless because it is so difficult to even get a bad teacher fired or replaced. There are mostly good ones, but there are some extremely lazy ones as well.

[Jannis Glover]

08:13 PM on 06/16/2011

I sympathize with your situation. However, whether you or your wife is the custodial parent, it doesn't mean you can't be involved in your child's education. Communications must be established between you and the school if it is not taking place between you and her mother.

As for parents who can't do the math, it's about making sure that that their child has access to resources that can help. There are many services to assist students with homework and even assist parent in learning how to help their students. Many of these services are free. Saying parent's can't do the math doesn't preclude them from being caring, nurturing parents who make sure that their child get's what they need to be successful in school. Parents must the find the needed resources.

As for the history teacher, no student is guaranteed to have great teachers in every grade/class, but each student has the power to turn a bad situation around. Does your daughter challenge her teacher when she "talks down about the USA” (respectfully of course)? I for one love my students to challenge me about anything I say because beyond teaching the standards, my job, my responsibility, is to help students learn to think. I hope you reinforce with your daughter that she can learn a great deal by listening to the negatives from this teacher and countering them with the positives. You do have the power to conference with this teacher and express your concerns.

[Alexandra Smith]

10:18 PM on 06/15/2011

First they try to make science teachers teach creationism, then they took over the School Boards and tried to change textbooks to force history teachers to teach the (incorrect) biblical influence over American history and capitalism-only economics. Now they're trying to obtain the power to fire entire faculties if their students don't perform to THEIR standards.

What infuriates me is that this is the work of the "MY CHILD brigade" who think that just by virtue of being a parent, it entitles them to control everything their precious children come into contact with and blow a gasket when things don't go their way. It gives them licence to blame everything and everyone under the sun when the child doesn't perform to the standards THEY want, while these people won't lift a finger to do what they can to help.

Let's leave education to pros, OK? Just be glad there are still people who actually want to teach your little brats. They're doing the best they can and don't need ignorant people with way too much time on their hands breathing down their necks.

[Keth30]

11:37 PM on 06/16/2011

Not all parents are as you describe, just like not all teachers are deserving of being fired.

Something does need to change, as we all know there are some really awful teachers out there who are only interested in reaching retirement. They are rewarded the same as good teachers and have no consequences for their poor job performance. Why? Tenure. Tenure can be a wonderful thing, but there has to be a way to get rid of bad teachers.

[Stopinstigating]

12:43 AM on 06/17/2011

If parents only knew just how arrogant and condescending you REALLY are, you'd be the LAST teacher they'd send their kids to - if they had a choice. Two-faced teachers like you should be kept as far away from our kids as possible.

Believe me when I say your post will be shared with other parents concerned with the effects of the union monopoly on our schools.

Until teachers are free to be compensated based on individual performance and results that come with the fresh, innovative thinking - currently stifled by the status quo enforced by unions - they will never earn the money or respect they deserve.

[mtcolleen]

10:16 PM on 06/15/2011

It is a very complicated issue and to simply hand all the power over to parents would be a mistake although giving them a voice is a good idea. The problem with parents is that they already have a voice and either don't use it (Parent-teacher conferences are almost always comprised of the parents of the best students while the parents of the students who are struggling rarely show) or are overbearing. Many parents although they believe they have their childrens best interest at heart , refuse to accept when a child is not doing well and want to blame the teacher. Needless to say, that is almost never the problem. Trying to hold a child back a grade is almost not done any more- too much politics.

Teachers are not the problem- generally. Administrations more interested in playing politics than getting the best results from the schools and parents either over-reaching or not reaching at all.

[eva09]

09:25 PM on 06/15/2011

Like another poster said, you can draw the horse to the water, but you can't make him drink. This law is problematic because there are multiple variables that could account for the school's failing. How are parents supposed to know the difference between bad teachers and lazy students? I've been in public school, and yes there are terrible teachers but there just as many lazy students who do not put any effort into their school work.

[thehiker]

09:32 PM on 06/15/2011

There are lazy parents as well. ESL students...students that come to school not having breakfast...etc...on and on...pick a problem...

[eva09]

10:19 PM on 06/15/2011

Exactly, another factor. How are we supposed to differentiate between the various reasons why schools fail?

[n2zyk]

06:24 AM on 06/16/2011

I see a lot od blame on lazy parents. There is definatley blame enough to go aroound but i don't see ANY teacher saying yes we can do better.

[Quenemum]

09:10 PM on 06/15/2011

The problem isn't the teachers! Keep the republicants out of office. We need to invest more money in our schools and that is certainly not on the conservative agenda. They are more concerned with depriving women of their reproductive rights than they are about educating the nation's children.

[thehiker]

09:33 PM on 06/15/2011

Excellent post!!!

[kejavas]

05:17 AM on 06/16/2011

thank you

[mtcolleen]

10:09 PM on 06/15/2011

So true! fanned

[rccthatsme]

08:47 PM on 06/15/2011

Vouchers, vouchers, vouchers. Give the parents the money, with a mandate to have the kids in an accredited school. They can choose the school.

[David Stallworth]

09:13 PM on 06/15/2011

Vouchers really do not do anything other than shuffle the concern elsewhere RCC, it's imperative that American public schools and their attendant communities are forced to deal with the issues at said schools, make both parents and school administrative staff responsible for what goes on at said schools not to mention actively insist that their political leadership (both local, district, county, and state) work to be more effective with the money geared towards education with none of the supposed kick backs that occur for pet measures from the State level on down. Vouchers, I'm sorry to say are tantamount to the old story of the little boy sticking his thumb in a dike in order to keep the ocean from flooding the tulip fields...

[n2zyk]

06:26 AM on 06/16/2011

Yes they dio, they allow a parent control op\ver what and how they are taught, one of the big problems libs have with them.

[grammasher]

11:50 AM on 06/16/2011

No! I don't want my tax dollars going to any Catholic school or madrassa.