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White House, Senate Split As Huge Obstacles Loom For 'Gang Of Six' Deficit Plan

First Posted: 07/19/11 08:23 PM ET Updated: 09/18/11 06:12 AM ET

Debt Default

WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration and congressional lawmakers appear to be at odds over whether they can attach a recently revived bipartisan proposal for deficit reduction to legislation raising the nation's debt ceiling.

An administration official told The Huffington Post on Tuesday that there was enough time before the Aug. 2 debt ceiling deadline for lawmakers to tinker with the so-called Gang of Six plan, which would reduce the deficit by $3.7 trillion over ten years, primarily through spending cuts and entitlement reforms.

"We feel we have time to do a big deal, yeah," the official said, pointing to comments made on Sunday by Office of Management and Budget Chairman Jack Lew that were similarly optimistic about the legislative timeframe.

But if the goal was to wax optimistically about the prospects of going big, members of Congress apparently didn't get the memo.

Hope bloomed on Capitol Hill Tuesday that a renewed "Gang of Six" could offer a bipartisan cure for ailing debt talks, but cautious words from many senators suggested the deficit-slashing plan could end up cut to ribbons.

The slice came from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), who suggested there simply is not enough time to act on a package that would cut nearly $4 trillion over 10 years.

"I'm happy to work and use anything in the Gang of Six that we can," he said, suggesting the Senate might swipe parts in the short-term, but that moving the entire thing was too big a lift. "Remember, we only have 13 days -- 13 days -- and there's a number of senators who have said they'll do everything they can to stop the debt ceiling from being increased."

Even one of the Gang members, Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.), was not sure what path the deficit-cutting plan could take, or if it would even wind up in the bargain to prevent a historic U.S. debt default.

"There's still a question of how these two intertwine at this point, or if they do," Warner said.

And other Democratic senators seemed far from convinced that the fresh proposal was a good idea at all, because it could require large sacrifices by the middle class.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) took an especially cautious tone, saying she needed to study new proposal more carefully.

"It's huge, so you have to really take some time and go over," Feinstein said. But she quickly pointed to a potential trip wire for Democrats, saying a plan to change the way inflation is adjusted is "one of the things I need to find out exactly what that means."

Altering the inflation index could be a way to cut benefits in Social Security because hikes in benefits are linked to inflation. Feinstein would prefer to toss the "Gang of Six" plan to a commission that would come back in six months.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), who has been working on a tax-reform plan with Sen. Dan Coats (R-Ind.) and former Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.), waved another large, red flag for middle-income Americans. He noted that the proposed plan slices individual tax rates more deeply than his own bipartisan group thought possible -- which means more money has to come from somewhere to offset the breaks.

"One of the questions will be, as you go forward in this, how is that going to affect key tax incentives that middle class people rely on -- like the mortgage deduction, their health and their retirement? That's where the bulk of the money is," Wyden said. "There has to be a clear recognition that you would have to dramatically reduce some of the tax incentives that middle class people have felt very strongly about."

That means people would be able to write off less for their IRAs, mortgage interest and other things like charitable giving.

Indeed, it seemed likely the deal would have little support from the left. Justin Ruben, executive director of the progressive advocacy group MoveOn.org, said the proposal appears to "ask seniors, the middle class and the poor to bear the burden of deficit reduction."

"We cannot allow a minority of Tea Party-led Republicans in the House to hold our nation’s economy hostage in order to protect tax breaks for the rich and corporations, while forcing cuts to programs families depend on," Ruben said in a statement.

Health Care for America Now, which fends off attacks on Obama's health care bill, was similarly skeptical of the Gang of Six proposal.

"A budget deal that devastates America's seniors and middle-class families while letting big corporations and the wealthy off the hook is a bad deal for America, even if it's bipartisan," executive director Ethan Rome said in a statement. "America needs a budget agreement that keeps alive the promise of financial security and economic opportunity for the people who built this country and make it work."

The new plan's ideas won their most enthusiastic support from conservative Democrats such as West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin -- who said hearing about the deal made Tuesday the best day of his Senate career -- and Republicans.

But several Senate Democrats wondered if their colleagues across the aisle could convince the Tea Party-steeped GOP in the House to go along.

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) did not seem especially committed to the Gang of Six with his own members still pursuing an even more draconian cutting plan.

"This plan shares many similarities with the framework the Speaker discussed with the president, but also appears to fall short in some important areas," said Boehner spokesman Michael Steel. "The House is voting today on our 'Cut, Cap, and Balance' plan, and we hope the Senate will take it up soon. That remains our focus."

With additional reporting by Tyler Kingkade and Elise Foley

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WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration and congressional lawmakers appear to be at odds over whether they can attach a recently revived bipartisan proposal for deficit reduction to legislation raising...
WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration and congressional lawmakers appear to be at odds over whether they can attach a recently revived bipartisan proposal for deficit reduction to legislation raising...
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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floodberg 12:03 PM on 07/20/2011
Exploring the Job-Creator Myth:  Goldman Sachs

Neither party is going to raise taxes on the very wealthy or the corporations because they are 'job creators.'  Here's an example with a company very near and dear to bipartisan politicians' hearts and wallets: Goldman Sachs.  GS was Obama's 2nd largest contributor in 2008 ($994,795) source;  Read More...
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04:35 PM on 07/22/2011
trying stop Obama from selling out is like trying to turn back the tides. He started selling out back in FISA days. $700,000 in donations from the Big Telecoms in 08 and his vote went for nay to yay in a blink.and once elected he put the pedal to the metal.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kathryn Talbert
02:14 PM on 07/22/2011
What is the difference between this congress and Louis the XV when it comes to benevolence to the citizens? These people have no more idea or empathy for the commoner, much less the pensioner, disabled or poor children than Marie Antionette had for the common eighteenth century Frenchman.

Cutting social security and every other program is far easier for them because a) they never have to see the disasterous results of their work -- none of them mix with the po' folk and b) its corporations and the elite wealthy that are breathing down their necks everyday, not us.

They have new masters my friends and we are merely the servants who willingly go to the polls to pretend to "elect" them. This entire thing is a ruse to cut social spending and cut "expenses" for the ultra rich and giant corps. We're being conned and we just keep sitting down and taking it.
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alienator
the irony of the right is entertainment enough
06:47 PM on 07/20/2011
i sure wish hillary was our potus... or better yet nancy pelosi
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Awake-and-Sing
named after a great play written by Clifford Odets
01:43 PM on 07/22/2011
I'll take any Democrat willing to stand up and fight the conservative movement. As most of them take corporate campaign money from the same sources as the Republicans, I won't be holding my breath.
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alienator
the irony of the right is entertainment enough
05:14 PM on 07/22/2011
unfortunately, I think you are correct
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
floodberg
Attorney (ret.)
04:13 PM on 07/20/2011
WHY DO CORPORATIONS NEED TAX BREAKS TO CREATE JOBS...


WHEN THEY PAY LITTLE OR NO TAXES?

Sen. Sanders' 10 worst corporate income tax avoiders.

1)      Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009.  Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. 

2)      Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
3)      Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4)      Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009. 

5)      Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6)      Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7)      Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department. 

8)      Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but  paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9)      ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2006 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10)  Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=a25567ff-02c0-4730-a6df-bf1f0039ac78
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Add In Canadia
Egotism is a weakness
05:55 PM on 07/20/2011
Those tax breaks and refunds are needed to keep those invaluable CEOs in power. Cause we all know those positions are irreplaceable and the whole system would collapse if they ever left that position because they weren't being paid enough.

Now the way I see, I'll happy take any CEO's job for say... oh 50% of what they are getting for salary and bonuses, and then I'll turn around and use 5% of that income to hire someone who actually knows something about the business to run it.

Which is you know, how it works right now!
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
floodberg
Attorney (ret.)
07:48 PM on 07/20/2011
Hey, AddinCanadia, make it 10% and I'll do it. Add 5% and some paltry stock options and I'll take the legal heat for you as necessary in front of Parliament/Congress too.  I'll even move the corporate headquarters to Argentina so they can't extradite us or grab our assets as long as they're held there...

oh, and I'll handle the fake passports and identies...

and we'll buy an island and a really good surveillance system, and declare ourselves independent and create a tax haven and have a really, really cool website with tshirts and coffee mugs and a live video stream...
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
floodberg
Attorney (ret.)
03:59 PM on 07/20/2011
Does Boeing need a tax break?

I don't think so:  they don't pay taxes. 

Sen. Sanders put them on his list of Corporate Tax offenders:

Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.   From Sen. Sanders Top 10 Corporate Tax Offenders list,  http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=a25567ff-02c0-4730-a6df-bf1f0039ac78
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Pinmason
Occupy Democracy
03:09 PM on 07/20/2011
My social security check has not received a cost of living increase since early 2010 and the $250.00 stimulus check in this economy didn't make it a week with having to raise my two grandchildren. I have been excited with the gas prices going down to 3.15 a gallon, but today that price went back up to 3.35 a gallon because Wall Street went ADHD hyper on the economy with the annoucement that their might be a debt ceiling deal and now that the deal is wavering again, I wonder if Wall Street will take another hit now that the Tea Party passed it's version of how American should crash and burn. I'm so tired of almost everything tied to how Wall Street feels about anything. Of course, the Koch Brothers love to increase gas prices over just about anything, but especially when it comes to reelecting President Obama. Come next year I'm sure we're going to see alot more of political economic maneuvering by big business and corportations and espeicially the Koch Brothers if polls don't support their Tea Party Candidates.
One down in Wisconsin...way to go Wisconsin!
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02:50 PM on 07/20/2011
Spany's gang offered this before, and it was rejected. Why is it so special now?
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minnehot
Tear Down This Wall!
02:45 PM on 07/20/2011
How typical - a true compromise plan appears and the Left knee jerks it to the curb...

Trying to out-Greek the Greeks?

GOP '12
03:29 PM on 07/20/2011
True compromise is apparently in the eye of the beholder.

3.7 trillion in cuts to programs that had 0$ borrowed. A continuation of every unfunded agenda item that actually created the debt. So this is a compromise between conservative dems and regressive repubs, walking the line between draconian austerity and fanatical austerity is not what the overwhelming majority of Americans have asked for. Adoption of this proposal would guarantee another recession or worse.
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minnehot
Tear Down This Wall!
04:03 PM on 07/20/2011
You leftie's are just too much... If this Gang of Six proposal should be implemented the reaction of the markets would be spectacular - the $2 trillion of money sitting on the sidelines would be invested into the American economy - virtually all at once, and a return to 90's growth would occur. Depression level unemployment rates will turn into labor shortages and everyone's standard of living would rise. The added growth will further increase tax revenues resulting in diminished debt and the virtuous circle sustaining itself with growth, jobs, revenue, reduced debt, increased pay, etc. I understand this is all foreign to the boys and girls of this board since their only taste of economics has been what Paul Krugman shovels out from Princeton...

GOP '12
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Grannysue
Been around for awhile!
02:17 PM on 07/20/2011
Most people do not understand that SS doesn't add to the deficit or debt, it is solvent for another 25 years, the only reason it's not solvent longer because the GOPERS took out money for their Bush Tax cuts and those Two little WARS and left IOUS' in it's place. The SS and Medicare funds are owed 15% of the national deficit money, basically we owe ourselves, but when the GOP'S borrow they don't ever intend to pay it back, not in their nature, nope their solution just cut benefits, let the middle class pay and pay some more!
03:38 PM on 07/20/2011
Notice how they have started describing these fully-funded entitlement programs as our economy's debt-drivers? They apparently tired of being called out on the actual source of our debt and decided to change their talking points to describe the programs that Americans paid for as the reason their unfunded agenda required relied solely on debt.

Well that's not entirely accurate. Both the Iraqi invasion and GW's tax cuts were supposed to pay for themselves.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Peppers Dad
04:20 PM on 07/20/2011
What they DO NOT dare say, though, is that when their ancestors were receiving benefits (SS, SSDI, VA, etc.) they weren't debt drivers. They were life savers. Otherwise the phrase generational house'' would have a whole new meaning altogether.

To your second point, unfortunately the beneficiaries of so many dead and wounded military personnel are florists, casket makers, funeral parlors, and cemetaries. Not much to say when a twenty-something gets told to find WMDs and comes home and gets committed to the Earth.
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Jay from Ottawa
sovereignty sale, 1.3T OBO
02:17 PM on 07/20/2011
You guys will love this. It's an interactive debt-limit chart that also shows american revenue vs spending. On the left you'll see the last ~7-10 presidents and what their administrations impact was on Americas debt limit and their effects on inflation. It's quite the nice tool and I'd invite all of you to check it out.

Here's a hint you probably all knew; it started with Reaganomics.
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Jay from Ottawa
sovereignty sale, 1.3T OBO
02:18 PM on 07/20/2011
lol - like a proper doorknob I forgot to include the link :D lol

Here it is !
http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/debt-limit/
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Allison Winkler
If social engineering persists, I'm an ex-pat
02:44 PM on 07/20/2011
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!!!
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Awake-and-Sing
named after a great play written by Clifford Odets
01:47 PM on 07/22/2011
Give thanks every day you are a Canadian and are from a country with nice people, sensible banking laws, universal health care, a foreign policy not based on inventing wars to enrich the military-industrial complex and do not have to deal with this nonsense.
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Jay from Ottawa
sovereignty sale, 1.3T OBO
02:21 PM on 07/22/2011
Sadly Canada is looking more and more like the USA every day.

I give our educational system and our healthcare system another 20 years, tops.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Bumpkins
01:57 PM on 07/20/2011
I see that the Gang of 6 will adjust the federal pension fund benefits. After taking the money from their pension fund to pay our bills till August 2nd., Congress does not want to pay the workers back.....sweet. Lets cut their benefits....so much for the trusted Congress.
03:02 PM on 07/20/2011
Most, if not all government workers have an average pay that is 35% to 40% higher than a private sector worker doing the same job.
03:45 PM on 07/20/2011
link please

I have seen this talking point often. I have never seen supporting evidence.

FYI
All jobs are not equal, it is a given that street sweepers and ditch diggers are paid less than executives and technicians. I am requesting real evidence, not more talking points.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Bumpkins
06:11 PM on 07/20/2011
Yes, but they are exempt from paying into Social Security.....that means they do not collect it. My daughter is in Texas, and she will not get SS either. That is a program that a few states went into,provided their pension plan will equal what the employees get when they retire; example, If the pension and SS checks is around 3600 $ a year for say a teacher, then the federal worker's retirement should be around that amount 3600 $ without SS. The opt out deal hurts the SS fund, and never should have been allowed.
01:37 PM on 07/20/2011
Facing investigations and possible lawsuits on the both sides of the Atlantic, Rupert Murdoch, Chairman and CEO of News Corporation, announced Wednesday he will turn his entire media empire into a bank.

“Instead of people calling me a media mogul, they can now call me a banking mogul,” Murdoch said in an appearance on Fox News, which he also owns. “News Corp will become one of the biggest bank holding companies in the world, a bank that just so happens to do a bit of publishing, makes movies and other things.”

It’s Murdoch’s latest attempt to quiet the uproar over allegations that News Corp employees at the British tabloid News of the World bribed British police and hacked into the voicemails of celebrities, politicians, murder victims and those killed in terrorist attacks. He has already closed News of the World and backed off an attempt to buy British satellite TV provider BskyB.

Murdoch told British members of Parliament on Tuesday that he was an inattentive CEO who had no idea what was going on at his company, so he shouldn’t be held accountable for the actions of his employees.

This new move is an attempt by Murdoch to insulate himself and his underlings from all possible legal problems and to open the door to financial support from the U.S. and British governments.

(continued)

http://www.thechicagodope.com/2011/07/20/rupert-murdoch-to-turn-news-corp-into-a-bank/
01:36 PM on 07/20/2011
Let's just pass it!! Then we can cut taxes again in 2012, say we are broke and cut some more out of social security and medicare. Then we can do it again in 2014.
I am a GenXer. I've got to be honest with you, we have been sold over the last 25 years that social security and medicare will NOT be there for us. I don't think we as a group really care about it. But I tell you what, now that I see that the tactic is to kill it by cutting taxes, saying we are broke and cutting SS and medicare you better hope they just get rid of it for everyone at once and not make me pay for the Baby Boomers to have a safety net in the next 25 years while I get the shaft.
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ladyrosedeky
01:28 PM on 07/20/2011
Ya know, we me all be worrying over nothing if all this 2012 apocalyptic stuff is true. If that black hole really exist and has its collision with planet Earth and all ends, we have nothing to worry about. It will all be over anyway. So who cares what they do up there. It's just a thought.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jamenta
There are other human values besides greed.
01:36 PM on 07/20/2011
I'm sorta with you. These are sad times we live in. Not only for those whose lives are being crushed by an economy that is the result of greed and recklessness on Wallstreet, and two unpaid wars and trillion dollar tax breaks to the most wealthy under Bush - but also for those of us who have to walk out our door - see boarded up homes on blocks, see desperate Americans in back packs, see the desperate look of Americans looking for work - as if our country is a third world nation. Who wants to live in a country where so many are falling into poverty? This isn't the America I grew up in. And it doesn't have to be this way.
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Pinmason
Occupy Democracy
03:21 PM on 07/20/2011
Apocolypse 2012...we've been living in Apocolyptic times since we took the first bite out of the Apple from the tree of life. (I can't blame women for that first bite as the Bible was inspired by the Creator, read by women, and totally misinterpreted by the conservative right.) If you don't believe we're in Apocolyptic times just look at the Tea Baggers that just passed their version of a debt ceiling solution in the house that will certainly come crashing down on everyones head in 2012 if the Senate goes along with it and the President doesn't veto it. Like that's happening thing.
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anti politricks
better to light 1 candle than curse darkness
01:25 PM on 07/20/2011
Current US debt: $14,349,800,568,478.56.
The estimated population of the United States is 310,968,662.
So each citizen's share of this debt is $46,145.49.
Does that mean I owe $90k cause I have to pick up my kid's tab???
-or-
let's take out 50% of population assuming they don't pay taxes because of income status, age, or any reason. that would leave 50% of us in debt of roughly $93,000 each. damn, i thought i owed sallie mae alot.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jamenta
There are other human values besides greed.
01:28 PM on 07/20/2011
Top 400 Americans control $1,740,000,000,000 in wealth according to Forbes.

If you simply rescinded the Bush tax cuts for the rich in this country, 5-6 years out we would return to a surplus budget that we enjoyed under Clinton.

We have the largest economy in the world - the closest country to our GDP is China, and China is only half of our GDP. Righties like to throw out huge figures and base their propaganda on fear - but in truth - because our economy is the largest in the world, so is our debt. A debt that could easily be resolved without crushing our American middle-class and refusing shared sacrifice by those who enjoy the most prosperity in our country.
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anti politricks
better to light 1 candle than curse darkness
02:10 PM on 07/20/2011
i only make $35k/year. i'm ALL for taxing the rich. talking heads say "we won't raise taxes (on the rich)" ....but i'ts not even an increase, we're just asking that they pay their fair share.
obama broke my heart when he extended the bush tax cuts. i would have never stood in line at 8 months pregnant for 4 hours to vote for him if i'd known he would have done that.
01:34 PM on 07/20/2011
Better yet...Let's get it from the top 1%. Multiply your $46,145.49 times 100 and each rich person should pony up $4,614,549. But don't worry, it's just peanuts to them.