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From JFK To September 11, Conspiracy Theories Thrive

Jfk September 11 Conspiracy Theories

AP/The Huffington Post   First Posted: 08/11/11 10:18 AM ET Updated: 10/11/11 06:12 AM ET

DALLAS -- In Dealey Plaza, with the white "X" painted on the spot where President Kennedy was assassinated, ask anyone about the grassy knoll and the second gunman.

Conspiracy theories come with the territory here. And at Barbec's Restaurant on the other side of this sprawling city, six men sit on a covered porch and convene a meeting of the North Texans for 9/11 Truth group and talk about the government's lies about 9/11.

The group has 50 active members; 200 on the mailing list. And they number among many thousands who, after years of investigations, don't believe the official version of how the World Trade Center collapsed, who was responsible or what the government knew and when.

Politics doesn't have anything to do with it; two were once staunch, Bush-voting conservatives; two are progressives and two weren't even interested in current events until after the 2001 attacks.

"Before 9/11, I was a working class person, going through life, pretty much accepting everything given and told to me," said Bryan Black, a 50-year-old carpenter from Commerce, Texas, "I'm starting to see things. I'm more open to skeptical conversation."

The skeptics – they prefer the term "9/11 truth activists" instead of "truthers" – have persisted, even thrived in the decade since 2001, with proponents from former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel to comedian Rosie O'Donnell. And unlike the years that Kennedy assassination conspiracies took to develop, they have mobilized with lightning-like speed on the Internet, with YouTube videos of the trade center collapsing again and again.

"There's really a foundation of reality here," said Ted Walter, who has worked unsuccessfully to prod New York City officials into reopening an investigation of how 7 World Trade Center collapsed on the afternoon of Sept 11. "We believe that if all of the American public saw footage of building 7 on the nightly news, it would lead to widespread skepticism of 9/11."

For many, conspiracy theories aren't terrifying; they're more comforting than the idea that an event as terrifying as Sept. 11 could be so – random.

Conspiracies can be a "security blanket" for explaining away the horrific, asserts Patrick Leman, a University of London professor who researches 9/11 theories. "It stops us from having to confront the unpredictability of life."

Jonathan Kay, a columnist with the Canadian newspaper The National Post and the author of a book about conspiracy theories, said it's normal for people to seek out complicated and detailed explanations of big events.

"There is something in the human mind that rebels against the idea of random forces or individuals being able to bring down powerful people or powerful icons," said Kay.

There's no real estimate of the numbers of people in the 9/11 "truth" movements – there's no one leader of the skeptics. A group called Remember Building 7 presented New York's City Council with a petition in 2009 signed by 80,000 people calling for an independent probe into the attacks. Other groups include Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and the 9/11 Commission Campaign, founded by Gravel.

The "truthers" generally have about a dozen beliefs surrounding what happened on that day, although there are some variations on who was responsible for the attacks and why:

_ Explosives brought down the World Trade Center, not hijacked jetliners.

_ There were warnings of the impending attacks from 11 different countries, and fighter jets could have intercepted at least one of the four planes that day.

_ Criminal conspiracies within the government caused the attacks.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology conducted a probe that took six years to complete of the tower collapses; the last report found that fire caused the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, a skyscraper north of the twin towers. In the collapses of the twin towers, the agency found that extreme heat from the jetliner crashes caused some steel beams to lose strength, causing further failures in the building until the entire structure succumbed.

The investigation "was the most comprehensive examination of a structural failure ever conducted," said Shyam Sunder, lead investigator of the collapse investigation and led to 40 building code changes to make safer, terror-proof skyscrapers. NIST maintains a website with its reports and computer-based animations that reconstruct its findings to reach out to the public.

Sunder acknowledges it hasn't reached everyone.

"We really can't explain why some people question our findings about the WTC collapses when we have done our best to present those findings and how they were derived as clearly as possible," Sunder wrote in an e-mail.

It begs the question: why is there such a distrust of government when it comes to 9/11? Is it due to feeling alienated from our fractured political system, a bad economy, or something else?

For Bob McIlvaine's son, it was the injuries found on his son Bobby's head, arm and skin that made him think the hijacked jetliner and building collapse couldn't have done it. He believes that explosives were detonated in the towers' basement before the planes hit the towers.

McIlvaine has not been able to determine where his son was when he died, but from the injuries – which include skin that was burned post-mortem – he assumes that his son was in or near the tower's lobby. McIlvaine questions the government's explanation that a fireball came down through the elevator shafts and burned those in the lobby.

"I spend three hours a day, every day, doing research on 9/11," said McIlvaine. "To me, this was a murder investigation. My son was murdered."

Tom Theimer watched the World Trade Center crumble while drinking coffee and watching television in his suburban Dallas home. Shaken, he bought flags for his porch and bumper stickers for his car reading "We will never forget."

A few years later, a friend of Theimer's wife casually mentioned that 9/11 "was an inside job." Theimer was livid and turned to the Internet, to prove the friend wrong.

The websites, the books and the documentaries he saw online persuaded him. He was wrong, and so was the system.

"I was duped," Theimer said. "It really hurt. I cried. I couldn't sleep for months."

Theimer said that he and others in Dallas are planning to show a new 9/11 documentary on the 10th anniversary. Remember Building 7 is trying to raise $1 million by Sept. 11 to support a new investigation into the collapses.

A conference on alternate 9/11 theories is being held in Toronto on Sept. 11.

The conference is headed by the International Center for 9/11 Studies, which was founded by James Gourley, a 31-year-old Dallas-area attorney who began to question the events of Sept. 11 during law school, while watching an activist make his argument on C-Span.

Gourley is aware of the theories about how skeptics are simply trying to justify and explain a random, horrific event.

"It's basically a backwards way of saying we're psychologically deranged," he said. "It's questioning the psychology of the people instead of questioning the facts."

Even in the heart of the conspiracy theory world, some find the alternate theories hard to believe.

At Dealey Plaza in downtown Dallas, Scott Dew hawked commemorative Kennedy assassination newspapers to tourists, standing under an oak tree, just steps from a white "X" painted on the asphalt that marks where President Kennedy was assassinated in 1963.

Dew's newspapers – which cost $5 each and come encased in a plastic sleeve – devote several pages and diagrams to the varying theories of bullet projectiles and second shooters on the grassy knoll.

Kennedy's assassination was "a conspiracy by the government," Dew says. "Back then, in '63, this was a money and power deal."

But Sept. 11? A conspiracy? He shakes his head.

"I believe bin Laden was the attacker. I don't believe the other theories that President Bush or the government had anything to do with it. That would just be a little too sinful," he said.

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DALLAS -- In Dealey Plaza, with the white "X" painted on the spot where President Kennedy was assassinated, ask anyone about the grassy knoll and the second gunman. Conspiracy theories come with th...
DALLAS -- In Dealey Plaza, with the white "X" painted on the spot where President Kennedy was assassinated, ask anyone about the grassy knoll and the second gunman. Conspiracy theories come with th...
 
 
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08:11 PM on 09/03/2011
". . . while watching an activist make his argument on C-Span."

Of course, the article DARE NOT mention he-who-must-not-be-named: the "activist" was author David Ray Griffin, who has turned more skeptical heads with his clear-headed, ruthlessly inescapable logic.

Single-handedly, he has revealed the Official 9/11 narrative to be an utter sham, and left the US Government two choices: confess or abandon truth altogether. It's clear which path has been taken.
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05:59 AM on 09/02/2011
Conspiracy theories abound here because the official 9/11 "report" or "investigation" did not adhere to nationally established, legal standards for an investigation.

NFPA 921, for example, is the National standard for fire and explosion investigations.
http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=921&cookie%5Ftest=1

Those criterion are recognized and upheld by Courts of Law throughout the United States. The 9/11 "investigation" made a complete mockery of those standards:

Materials had already been removed from Ground Zero long before the 9/11 Commission began its work. These should have been preserved intact, but instead were dismembered and hauled off to China.

No testing was performed for the use of explosives. This is MANDATORY in a real investigation.

President Bush & Dick Cheney, as another example,
– were "interviewed" privately – and together – by select 9/11 Commission Members,
– they were not under oath,
– their comments were neither recorded nor transcribed.

These instances show clearly that the criterion for an authentic legal investigation were not met at any stage of the 9/11 Commission's work.
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05:38 AM on 09/02/2011
A brand-new video, narrated by Edward Asner, representing over 1,500 experts in the fields of architecture, structural engineering, explosive demolition, and aviation, who have signed a petition calling for a new, fully independent investigation:

http://youtu.be/hZEvA8BCoBw
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05:32 AM on 09/02/2011
As long as the US Gov't engages in and covers up criminal operations, yes, "conspiracy theories" will abound.

To those who believe that the planes could have played a part:
1) Less than 2% of the steel-framed towers were damaged by the planes and fuel.

2) WTC Building 7 collapsed later that day at the same free-fall speed as the first two towers, yet was not struck by a plane, and had only a few small, scattered office fires on 6 floors.

3) The impact of planes was local to one side of the tower, yet all 4 sides gave way at the same time. Again, this is possible ONLY through the use of explosives.

4) 100,000 tons of steel framework form a highly redundant structural system, meaning:

5) Partial collapse certainly could have occurred naturally, — yet we observe 100% total, simultaneous dismemberment of every beam on every floor, which can ONLY be accomplished through the use of explosives.

6) 90 undamaged, steel-framed floors could not have been so weakened by a top-floor impact.

Over 1,500 professional architects and engineers cite overwhelming evidence for the use of explosives at the World Trade Center, and are calling for a new, fully independent investigation.

http://rememberbuilding7.org/
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bdoug25000
Bio? Nope, Mostly mechanical
01:31 PM on 08/27/2011
My personal favorites are of course the Kennedy assasination and 9/11. Why? Because the official "explainations" are not just improbable, they are impossible! But the explainations stand because most folks "just can't believe that they would do such a thing". That is a reaction that is absolutely reliable in 95% of the population, even in people who would know better if they weren't so gulible.
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CarlIII
Liberal Virginian living in Remlap Alabama
10:38 AM on 08/30/2011
F&F This answer will be in two Parts. I disagree with you about 9/11. I've studied up on the structure of the twin towers. I believe the steel used in the girders was of a very low grade. The aviation fuel burned {both planes full of fuel } really hot for long enough to melt the girders of say 15 floors. Then the weight of those floors caused the floors beneath them to collapse and so on faster and faster. I saw it live like 500 million people did. I believe the planes brought down the towers.
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CarlIII
Liberal Virginian living in Remlap Alabama
02:43 PM on 08/30/2011
They wouldn't post my Kennedy assassination theory. I Must have hit a nerve.
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
11:02 PM on 09/01/2011
Give it another shot. I'd like to hear it...
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
12:37 PM on 08/18/2011
Brand new video...just released:

www.youtube.com Architects And Engineers - Solving The Mystery Of WTC 7

Selah

Q
10:40 PM on 08/17/2011
June 17, 2009
"29 Structural/Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition in Destruction of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11"

More than 700 architects and engineers have joined call for new investigation, faulting official reports

Gregg Roberts and Staff

The facts are in. The evidence is conclusive. These experts lay it all out.

For Some, the Doubts Began Early

“Something is wrong with this picture,” thought Nathan Lomba, as he watched replays of the Twin Tower collapses on television on September 11, 2001. A licensed structural engineer trained in buildings’ responses to stress, Lomba saw more on the screen than you or I. He puzzled, “How did the structures collapse in near-symmetrical fashion when the damage
was clearly not symmetrical?”...
03:39 PM on 08/18/2011
Nathan Lomba is an idiot if he did not know the Towers were symmetrical structures. He also can't seem to comprehend tube in tube construction. This is basic stuff to structural engineers like myself. Basic. It was a wide open floor plan.

He also should know that the Towers were designed to fall down and not topple. It was in the 1980's documentary. The Core prevented that from happening. Large portions of the core (especially the South Tower since it was hit in the corner) remained intact for a good 15-20 seconds after collapse. The part that collapsed first was the Interior Space, which had NO columns whatsoever from Grade to Roof. For Nathan Lamba not to know this is an embarrassment. You do realize there are imbeciles in ALL fields, yes? George Bush graduated from Yale Law School. Orly Taitz is a Lawyer. They are both idiots. You don't seem to realize that about 99.98% are in agreement on the Towers collapsing from fire. It's not even debatable.

Again, show me just ONE top down synchronized controlled demo. You can't, because it is not possible. Not one demo contractor in the world agrees. You are getting your chain yanked by amateurs.
05:03 PM on 08/18/2011
Here's the script that's being followed here:

1. Use name-calling to dismiss any expert cited by the other side.

2. Bring up a non sequitur argument ("symmetrical structures must necessarily collapse symmetrically, regardless of the nature of the damage done").

3. Claim expertise and accordingly invoke an implicit argument from authority with no evidence.

4. Make blanket statements with false implications ("wide open floor plan" -- as if the core and exterior weren't made of extremely strong interconnected columns, with strength far in excess of what would have been necessary to resist a collapse)

(People should watch closely videos such as are available in "downward acceleration of the North Tower" that show explosive ejections massed so closely together you can't see any separation between them. The wave of destruction races down the building faster, some of the time, than steel is falling through the air. No mere collapse can possibly do that.)
05:10 PM on 08/18/2011
(read from the next post upward to this one)

5. Call the expert another name, impugning his intelligence, just because he disagrees with you, with the understanding that you will scare off a large portion of the readership because they don't want you to be calling them names.

This is not even close to a logical argument. This is pure manipulation. This is the work of a propagandist.

I wasn't posting my post to make an argument from authority, I was posting my post to disprove the claim that was made here several days ago, that no structural engineers publicly support the controlled demolition hypothesis. At least 29 of them do -- more by now -- and many more than publicly support the official hypothesis. You are right, it isn't debatable that 99.98% agree with the official story -- it's just wrong. Show me the petition with millions of verified real names on it, signing on to the official explanation. Most engineers have not even come close to reading the official explanation, much less any criticism of it.

I guess you missed the demo contractor in the AE911Truth DVD trailer who used to work for Controlled Demolition Inc. Also, both Mark Loizeaux and a former worker said that they or others saw molten steel at Ground Zero. Then there are the firefighters who saw molten steel or iron "running down the channel rails," "like a lava from a volcano."
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
04:43 PM on 08/16/2011
For everyone who believes that there was a "real investigation" of the
events of 9/11, I want you to take a moment and call your local District
Attorney's office and ask them this question: Have you ever tried a murder
case where the DA DID NOT have the power to subpoena witness's AND
compel them to testify under oath? When they start laughing you can hang
up because your question will have been answered. But yet, even though
3000 New Yorkers were murdered on 9/11, the 9/11 Commission was NOT
given these powers...WHY? The investigation was a show for the public.
It was NEVER meant to find the "truth". Period. End of story.

Selah
09:54 AM on 08/16/2011
A major reason that these "conspiracy theories" thrive is because the government does such an abysmally poor job of investigating the events. Incompetence smacks of "cover up". We also have proven "conspiracy theories" from the past which have justifiably undermined trust in government. Are the people who assert that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was manufactured to drag the U.S. into Vietnam still considered nutty "conspiracy theorists"? What about those who state that the Lusitania was carrying weapons and was used as an excuse to drag the nation into war? "Theory" or fact?

Denying the skeptics a forum also feeds the conspiracies.

Let's have a new reality TV show. We'll put the 9-11 commission, government reps and experts who buy the "official" story on one side. On the other side, the skeptics. Each side gets to present their case and engage in a moderated debate. Then, we let the American people decide.
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Free Your Mind
We do not need wars to prosper.
07:57 PM on 08/15/2011
Dear HP!

Why do you make me re-post over and over again!!!

Enough with the cens0rship!

Check out "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm" from before 2000 talking about removing Saddam...
11:33 PM on 08/15/2011
I hear you. My comments keep on getting deleted. I keep reading the guidelines and wondering what rule I broke.
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
09:10 AM on 08/16/2011
Don't feel bad. I tried to post a quote from the Architect who designed
the Towers and even THAT was deleted...

Selah
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
09:08 AM on 08/16/2011
Hey, scroll down to my last post if you get a chance...:)

All The Best,
Quinny
07:17 PM on 08/15/2011
"The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are winding down, Osama bin Laden is dead, and the federal government is deeply in debt. This spells the end of what was a golden decade for the defense industry.

In the decade since the Sept. 11 attacks, the annual defense budget has more than doubled to $700 billion and annual defense industry profits have nearly quadrupled, approaching $25 billion last year."
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
09:05 AM on 08/16/2011
But wait! What about Libya, Iran and Syria..! We haven't invaded
THOSE guys yet...!!

Love,

The Military Industrial Complex
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Stephen McAbee
Paul/Johnson 2012
08:15 AM on 08/25/2011
PS:
Don't forget Yemen, Somalia, and N. Korea.
08:19 AM on 09/09/2011
Follow the money.
12:59 PM on 09/09/2011
it leads to Halliburton.
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
02:34 PM on 08/15/2011
Game, set....and match.

www.youtube.com WTC 7 Demolition Countdown Witness's

www.youtube.com 911 Truth: NYFD Says Explosives Brought Down The Towers

www.youtube.com 911 Truth: Jim Marrs In Ten Minutes

We are almost ten years overdue for a REAL investigation into the
events of 9/11. See you in New York in a few weeks...

Selah

Q
12:16 PM on 08/15/2011
The 9/11 Commission Hearing

At the closed-door 9/11 Commission hearing, Rodriguez testified under oath that explosions were going off in the basement of the North Tower before the first plane impacted the building.

He explained in great detail to the Commissioners the numerous cases of serious injuries he had personally witnessed that were caused by these explosions.

He even provided the panel with a list of firsthand witnesses to the explosions, people who were ready to testify under oath.

One of the individuals Rodriguez recommended the panel summon was his friend and fellow employee, John Mongello.
Gasparilla
bottled water = environmental disaster
09:46 PM on 08/15/2011
Complete baloney. Read the link. He not only did not say that to the 9 11 commission, he was making public statments in interviews that said no such thing. It's only when he discovered he could make money giving lectures that he became a truther.
http://sites.google.com/site/911stories/home
12:16 PM on 08/15/2011
One of the individual­s Rodriguez recommende­d the panel summon was his friend and fellow employee, John Mongello.

Mongello was in the lobby of the neighborin­g South Tower when the first aircraft plowed into the North Tower where Rodriguez was located.

It would be another sixteen minutes before the second aircraft would rip into the one Mongello was in.

Yet, within a minute of the first plane hitting the North Tower, an elevator in the South Tower exploded to smithereen­s right before his eyes!

Mongello and others were literally blown backwards by the blast, as people—man­y, horribly burned—beg­an to run willy-nill­y shrieking in pain, shock, and sheer terror. Thick, black smoke could be seen billowing out of the now exposed elevator shaft, and the pungent smell of “gunpowder­” was very evident.

Again, just as with the North Tower, this explosion occurred inside a building that had not yet been struck by a plane!

How could a plane crashing into the North Tower possibly have caused elevators in the South Tower


http://beforeitsnews.com/story/931/331/WNL/Exclusive:_Last_Man_Out_Makes_Shocking_9_11_Disclosure.html
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
12:00 AM on 08/15/2011
"Fiat justitia ruat caelum.."

Caesoninus

"Let Justice Be Done,
Though The Heavens Fall..."

Selah
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Alain Lareau
01:43 AM on 08/15/2011
http://fiercereason.com/2011/08/the-american-revolution-21st-century-style-3/

you have to like this one?
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
02:27 PM on 08/15/2011
Alain,
The Tobin Tax is a great idea. The question is - do our
"leaders" have the political will to push it through...?

All The Best,
Quinny
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Quinny
My micro-bio has been seized by the Feds
11:24 PM on 08/18/2011
Alain,
Would it be possible for you to contact me at Facebook..?

Thanks

www.facebook.com/peterquinn
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Alain Lareau
05:31 PM on 08/19/2011
Hey tell ya what, I'll make a date with you;
2012 Portuguese Feast, New Bedford.

Which night thu, fri, sat, or sun?
You be there, I'll get you some Madeira Wine to go with your Linguiça?

Hey a favor, could you check the recent blog from Lydia Fisher
and chime in behind me.

Some friends of mine are Trying to have 100 comments under this article
with the words Glass-Steagall in them, any way that is the goal.

or H.R.1489 that's good too, ,,

I think you will pick up what is gong on.
If this makes sense to you, please pass the word and have your contacts do the same.
Look in my comments you should find it easily.

see you in the middle