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Judge Weighs Request To Block Indiana Voucher Program

School Voucher

By CHARLES WILSON   08/11/11 05:14 PM ET   AP

INDIANAPOLIS -- Students who have signed up for Indiana's broad new school voucher program could be jerked out of private schools midsemester or forced to scramble to re-enroll in public school unless it's allowed to proceed pending the outcome of a legal challenge, state officials argued Thursday.

Marion Superior Court Judge Michael Keele said he would rule early next week on a request from a group of teachers and religious leaders backed by the Indiana State Teachers Association to issue a preliminary injunction keeping the law from taking effect.

The program, which allows even middle-class parents to use taxpayer money to send their children to private secular and religious schools, violates the state constitution because it provides public money to schools whose main purpose is to promote religion, John West, an attorney for the group suing to stop the program, argued in Marion Superior Court.

"What we're talking about here finally is a program that provides state funds to send children to religious schools," West said.

Solicitor General Tom Fisher argued that the voucher system is legal because the state isn't directly funding parochial schools directly. Instead, it gives scholarship vouchers to parents, who can choose which school to use them at.

He likened a parent using vouchers to send children to religious schools to a state employee donating part of his paycheck to a church. Any benefit to religious institutions from vouchers was merely incidental, Fisher said.

West disagreed, saying that vouchers helped religious schools recruit new students – and potentially new members – they otherwise wouldn't have reached.

After listening to two hours of arguments, Judge Michael Keele said he will rule early next week on whether to grant an injunction halting the program until the lawsuit is resolved.

About 2,800 Indiana students have been approved for the state-funded scholarships, and Attorney General Greg Zoeller said more than 150 of them used the vouchers to enroll in private schools that started this week.

"Any injunction would be extremely disruptive to their education while this litigation is pending," Zoeller said.

Teresa Meredith, a Shelbyville teacher and teachers union vice president who is the main plaintiff, said any disruption should be minimal if the judge rules early next week before most school systems have resumed classes.

The voucher program takes a portion of the money that would have gone to a public school system and converts it into a scholarship for use at a private secular or religious school approved by the state. The plaintiffs, who are backed by the Indiana State Teachers Association, say 90 percent of the roughly 250 eligible schools are religious.

Unlike other systems that are limited to lower-income households, children with special needs or those in failing schools, Indiana's voucher program is open to a much larger pool of students, including those already in excellent schools. Families have to meet certain income limits to qualify, with families of four making up to about $60,000 a year getting some type of scholarship.

The U.S. Supreme Court has given its backing to voucher programs, ruling they don't violate the Constitution. But West pointed out that courts in several states have overturned voucher laws on the grounds that they went further toward supporting religious institutions than their state constitutions allowed.

Bert Gall, an attorney with the libertarian Institute for Justice who is representing two families who want to use the Indiana's new vouchers, argued that courts in Ohio and Wisconsin have upheld their state voucher laws, and that their laws regarding the matter are similar to Indiana's.

Gall said after the hearing that if the preliminary injunction is granted, it would mean hardship for families whose children had already used vouchers to enroll in private school.

"You're literally yanking people out of their seat at private school because of the preliminary injunction," he said.

One of the parents Gall is representing, Heather Coffy, said she joined the suit because her children attend parochial school and that without the vouchers, it would require at least half of her income to send her children to the schools she's chosen

Monica Poindexter, who also joined the suit, said her 5-year-old son is in his second year at Holy Angels Catholic School and her 12-year-old daughter is starting junior high at Cardinal Ritter High School.

While a scholarship helped her pay part of the tuition last year, her daughter is now in junior high and the cost is going up, she said.

"Without a voucher, I don't foresee how I could do this too much longer," she said.

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INDIANAPOLIS -- Students who have signed up for Indiana's broad new school voucher program could be jerked out of private schools midsemester or forced to scramble to re-enroll in public school unless...
INDIANAPOLIS -- Students who have signed up for Indiana's broad new school voucher program could be jerked out of private schools midsemester or forced to scramble to re-enroll in public school unless...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chatnuptime1
Try some Icy cold reality.
09:35 PM on 08/25/2011
Ok education reform to this point is just treating the symptoms and ignoring the cause. The cause is outdated education. No amount of shifting finances and people around from one school to the next is going to stop what is going on. Even private schools are somewhat beind the times in how they use their money to educate kids and sometimes more harsh. All the money in the world does not make for well educated child if the system itself is failing. We have to look at the methodology of teaching en mass millions of children in finite systems that cannot handle the load or compexity of how humans learn.


Complex becaues unlike 40 years ago when the average child would likely become a factory worker or a blue collar worker simple things were needed. Basic math Reading Writing.

Now we have no factories and more blue collar work is shipped over seas and the techology and way of life we enjoy require ponderously more information to use them. Populations have blown up huge in the last 40 years as well. The rate of information is fast outpacing a humans ability to keep up with it. For a teacher to dispense that information and for students to acquire basic and modern skill mastery we have to use the technology present and intergrate the learning experience with the teacher experience for every student. Continue....
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MardiGrasGirl
At 65, you'd better not give me a d*mn voucher!
10:41 PM on 08/12/2011
As you can tell, I don't like vouchers. Vouchers take away from public schools by promising parents that they can get their children into better schools. When a child does get a voucher and leaves, certain things happen. Money is diverted from the existing school the child is leaving and hurting their program. What about the kids who don't leave? Nobody ever answers that question. Private institutions will sometimes get the kid and money, but kick them out if they misbehave or break a policy and by law that child has to be educated. They go back to the public school system without the money they left with. Lastly, parents are excited to hear that they can get money for a supposedly better school. This is understandable, but what is never discussed is the fact that ALL schools don't participate. A perfect example is Newman in New Orleans. This is the private school that Eli and Peyton Manning attended. I looked up the tuition. It costs a little over $16,000 a year for Pre-K! If I give a parent a voucher for $5,000.00, they have to come up with $11,000.00. The costs might be cut even further with help from financial aid from the school, but it is still costly. What poor parent can afford that? The schools that are on the list for vouchers are usually financially hurting institutions (has nothing to do with better).
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Ghostberry
All empty souls tend toward extreme opinions.
12:40 PM on 08/12/2011
"One of the parents Gall is representing, Heather Coffy, said she joined the suit because her children attend parochial school and that without the vouchers, it would require at least half of her income to send her children to the schools she's chosen"

So shes obviously not paying nearly enough taxes to cover even a public education, but she wants everyone else to fund her kids private school? No thank you.
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petit chaton
“Sin is geographical”
11:23 AM on 08/12/2011
Vouchers will be the demise of our public school system. We will insanely become a country in which science is dismissed in order to support the absolute teachings of religion. Already there are too many out there asking that the Flintstones be removed from the Cartoon Network and instead be more properly placed on the History Channel.
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Ghostberry
All empty souls tend toward extreme opinions.
12:44 PM on 08/12/2011
My parents tried to send my brothers to multiple private schools because they wanted to control what they were allowed to be exposed to. When they finally gave up due to the fact that any private school that is even on par with public education is incredibley expensive, my brothers were forced to start a grade back they tested so poorly due to their private schools spending half their day on the bible. Vouchers are about keeping your child from being exposed to different people from yourself. If we all went this route the union will dissolve.
08:48 AM on 08/12/2011
If you want tools to go to religious schools then let them come up with the vouchers. Public money is to be used fro public schools. stope charters, vouchers etc fix the public
07:43 AM on 08/12/2011
Public schools usually provide a better education than private schools, and always a better value. They're cheaper to run and free at the point of delivery for parents. While parents should be free to send their kids to private schools if they want to, it should be at their own expense. We've tried vouchers a number of times, and not only are they wrong, but they don't work. They don't generally improve kids' education. They should not exist.

That said, it's also not a good idea to disrupt kids' education. If this issue is decided (hopefully striking down the voucher system) before most schools are in session, great. Keep the kids in public schools where they belong. But if it drags on and is only decided after school is in session, it would probably make sense to keep the kids where they are until a logical stopping point is reached, and to give the families some notice to make arrangements. If it's decided on October 1st, the kids shouldn't be pulled out October 2nd. Christmas break might be a better time.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ghostberry
All empty souls tend toward extreme opinions.
12:45 PM on 08/12/2011
I have to wonder why the parents who initially dragged their children out of the school they knew, and friends they had were so concerned at that point. It only seems to be an issue now for them.
01:00 PM on 08/12/2011
Excellent point. Of course, many of those families may have been the usual voucher advocates: well-off to wealthy people who can afford private school for their kids, and will pay for it out of their own pockets to keep them away from the rest of us, but want the government to give them a hand-out. That sort had their kids in private school already, and they're not going to pull them out even if the correct decision is reached and this voucher nonsense is discontinued. They're just mad because they might not be getting a government kickback.

But there are probably some who pulled their kids out of public school because they believed this would be a better place to put them, and the vouchers made it possible. They were probably wrong, and you're right that they disrupted their kids' education if they did that, but it would be more disruptive to move them back abruptly. I still think, if this isn't settled until school starts, that they should wait for a semester break before putting the kids back in public school, though they should probably also make some accommodation if the public schools' funding is based on enrollment. It doesn't make sense to cut their funding because of low enrollment in the fall if they're going to have to educate a bunch of kids returning from private school, come spring.
10:41 PM on 08/11/2011
I really feel badly for the families living in areas with underperforming public schools but who cannot afford to send their children to private schools. However, the answer is NOT to take public money away from public schools and send it to private/religious/parochial schools. Make the public schools better! I've taught in both types of school environments (8 years in public, 6 years in parochial), and I'll frankly say that private schools are not the panacea they are made out to be. Many offer a high-quality education with stringent academics, etc, but a big part of the difference in test scores, graduation rates etc is the fact that private schools can take who they want and deny who they don't want. If your child has special academic needs, that's your tough luck if they don't want to accommodate him. Make the grades, meet the standards, or out you go. And this is where we want to send our public money?
07:45 AM on 08/12/2011
A big part of the difference? The more selective nature of private school admissions is typically the only cause of the difference. When private schools do better than public (and they don't always), it's because they don't take students that are hard to teach.
10:15 AM on 08/12/2011
If those voucher parents care about their child's education, they'll get involved with their local public schools to make them better. I'm sure you know that most schools are only as good as the parents of the kids in that school.
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chatnuptime1
Try some Icy cold reality.
10:27 PM on 08/25/2011
am10 your right we are. When I see that school after school is failing their kids I sought to find out why. I volunteered to help teachers in classes since my kids were small. By the time they were in the fifth grade I had a clear understanding whats going wrong.

PTA member that were activist in our school system put money together to change a failing school into a high performing school. What did we do differently? We came to school with computers bought second hand bought a whole curriculum and loaded it into the system and began working with the kids in basic education.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chatnuptime1
Try some Icy cold reality.
10:28 PM on 08/25/2011
We took out the need for bulk paper, pencils and notebooks and replaced them with self grading software and worked with such program designers to wire up the whole school to function. Every level of curriculum is done on computer. Now five schools have this using the credits given to schools by the government.
1. Increased performance tests none of the five schools on the program have failed.
2 Black and Latino's and Whites perform near equally as some of the B/L did better then the White population.

We no longer grade on a curve but grade by skill mastery. Think of how many lunch times you will not miss grading their work. Teacher can stay ontop of performance and pin exactly what help the children need by their performance charts. Target it right to the very item. No more shifting from class to class for kids. One room does it all. Teachers are the only ones that come and go to start the class according to their feild of study.
10:33 PM on 08/11/2011
Ok, first of all, HP: Solicitor General Tom Fisher argued that the voucher system is legal because the state isn't directly funding parochial schools directly. Instead, it gives scholarship vouchers to parents, who can choose which school to use them at.

Did you really, REALLY just end a sentence with the word "at"? If you were quoting Mr. Fisher, I guess it would be permissible to leave his words intact when you quoted them, (maybe with a "sic" alongside), but this doesn't appear to be a direct quote. Grammar police, anyone?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
janthewordnerd
10:39 PM on 08/11/2011
Welcome to New Journalism. No more money for copy editors, and reporters are not necessarily grammarians - especially online.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
janthewordnerd
10:28 PM on 08/11/2011
NO Federal funding for private schools. NO WAY.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Sock No 4
Comfy sock
12:11 AM on 08/12/2011
I thought this article was about state funding.
10:10 PM on 08/11/2011
In one extremely prosperous Colorado school district we the same type of snake oil floating around as in the Indiana system. That district, by the way, is the only district in the state that affiliates with AFT as opposed to NEA. About a year and a half ago they were the only union to support a misguided anti teacher bill...thus allowing SB 191 supporters to claim the bill had union support. This was the thank you. Anyway, will the good people of Indiana embrace this program when they see their tax dollars going towards schools which preach and proselytize on behalf of Judaism, Hinduism, and dare we say Islam? What if such a school were to hold aloft Shi'ria (I apologize for being unfamiliar with the spelling) Law as a virtue? Just asking.
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10:32 PM on 08/11/2011
This is already happening:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/07/education/07charter.html?pagewanted=all

What people who keep pushing for this across the country don't seem to understand is that once this door of public money for private school, or even charter school, is wide open that anyone can start a school and demand public money--and they can teach whatever they want and call it religious freedom.

Public money for anything other than public schools (charter schools are not public because they select or raffle their students in--public schools serve anyone in the public that lives in the district) should not be allowed.
07:51 AM on 08/12/2011
Well, politicians can pass pretty much any laws they want. If our current partisan Supreme Court says it's okay, or refuses to hear the case, they can get away with it, even if it's unconstitutional. As the article states, they've upheld vouchers for religious schools. They shouldn't have. It's unconstitutional. But they did.

I suspect that a lot of the people pushing for vouchers and religious charter schools would like to limit that support to Christian schools only, probably on the grounds that it's the only "true" religion, and that the others, by virtue of being "false," don't really qualify as religions. They've certainly got politicians elected who would go along with that reasoning. I can't see Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann having any trouble with it. Could they get it passed? I hope not. Would it be struck down if they did? I hope so. But I'm nowhere near as confident in the intelligence and integrity of most Americans as I was a few years ago.
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dhbarkley
09:42 PM on 08/11/2011
Here's a thought. Maybe they don't want children, that could not afford this kind of education, in there schools.
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08:58 PM on 08/11/2011
From the article:

He likened a parent using vouchers to send children to religious schools to a state employee donating part of his paycheck to a church. Any benefit to religious institutions from vouchers was merely incidental, Fisher said.

What kind of rationale is that?!? The state employees EARNED the money and there is nothing in the state constitution about preventing them from using it how they choose. The parents did not earn the money for the vouchers and using it for religious schools does go against the state constitution.

They need to change the state constitution or the money that is intended for public schools should continue to go to public schools.

I know I would be very upset if even one dollar of my taxes went to pay for a student to attend a private religious school.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
janthewordnerd
10:30 PM on 08/11/2011
Yeah, that's a dumb analogy. Totally unworkable.

It's more like a state employee diverting tax receipts to a church.
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MarvinM
Where's the Ka-Boom?
07:06 PM on 08/11/2011
"Solicitor General Tom Fisher argued that the voucher system is legal because the state isn't directly funding parochial schools directly. Instead, it gives scholarship vouchers to parents, who can choose which school to use them at.

He likened a parent using vouchers to send children to religious schools to a state employee donating part of his paycheck to a church. Any benefit to religious institutions from vouchers was merely incidental, Fisher said."

Well, since "... 90 percent of the roughly 250 eligible schools are religious." that statement makes no sense. The money the state employee can earn (and came from taxes) can go to anything, the the tax subsidized voucher can only go to schooling. If 90% of your choice is religious schools, that is hardly incidental, I think it's fairly inevitable. And some people have a legitimate problem with their tax dollars going to religious organizations.

That being said, I am never for moving kids out of schools that they have already started for the disruption it causes both students and parents. I hope some 'waiver' can be granted to let them at least finish the semester. It would be useful to have some data, too, on how the program works, or what about it could be improved, so I sure hope that opportunity would be taken.
07:56 AM on 08/12/2011
This sort of thing has been tried before, and the data always tend to be the same: the kids do in the private school about as well as they'd have done in the public school. No real difference.

Since most of the variation in student achievement comes from student ability and parental factors, with only a small variation resulting from in-school factors, this is unsurprising to anybody who's remotely knowledgeable about education issues. But ignorant people keep pushing vouchers anyway.
06:52 PM on 08/11/2011
Here is an important question. Are the student's grades higher than before? If that is the case why change this? The scores of the students will follow them, and if they are improved, to stop now because of religious angst against the schools is in essence hindering their education, and possibly their college of choice, and even future career choices. The #1 issue should be the STUDENTS AND THEIR ACADEMIC SUCCESS. Not lawsuits.
09:37 PM on 08/11/2011
There is little or no empirical data that show private schools or religious schools providing a better quality education than public school. In many instances, if a child has better grades and better test scores, it is not due to the quality of the education they receive at these private schools, but due to the amount of parental involvement.
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windy33
10:40 PM on 08/11/2011
it's a matter of separation of church and state. i do not want my property taxes to pay for a private religous school they were ment for public education.
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Eric Mann
Do you want to be on the opposite side of Progress
10:04 PM on 08/11/2011
Higher grades or not, if the practice violates a basic tenant on which our country operates, then it is spoiled goods. The #1 issue is that we live under the set of rules that we say we are going to live under. It is a hindrance to our society to pay for religious indoctrination with public funds.
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windy33
10:46 PM on 08/11/2011
it's just another way to privatize schools and reap the money for the rich that is what the ALEC and the koch brothers and the karl roves are trying to do. once they get them all that way they will teach the kids how to be hatefull vile spewing republicans like them selves. they want to take this country to the direction of hitler. look at scot walker and the fitzgerald brothers. why do you think they are privatizing everything. it is so that people will be begging them to have a tiny life just to survive. and then they can laugh at them and kick them to the curb. this is what corporate greed is causing. look at what is happening in the us. no jobs no lifeno future then it will turn to anarcky.look whats happening in london. we are next.