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Georgia Works: Little Data To Recommend Jobs Program Eyed By White House


First Posted: 08/26/11 01:54 PM ET Updated: 10/26/11 06:12 AM ET

The Georgia Department of Labor has said that within three months of participating in a voluntary job training program, nearly two-thirds of trainees found work. The program has been copied by other states, and the White House has indicated it is considering something similar as part of a forthcoming jobs package.

But the 60 percent of workers who participated in the Georgia program and supposedly found steady work may not have done so. The statistic means only that at some point within 90 days after a person completed the training, the person's Social Security number popped up in state payroll data. It doesn't mean the trainee had a job at the 90-day mark; it could even mean that a person worked just one day during those three months.

The program, known as Georgia Works, lets businesses train workers for eight weeks without having to pay them. The initiative is voluntary for businesses and jobless workers, who train no more than 24 hours a week and receive a $240 stipend on top of unemployment benefits. The White House is reportedly looking to the program as an answer to the growing problem of long-term unemployment, which currently afflicts 6.2 million Americans.

The administration has not commented on its plans but has not denied to HuffPost that it is looking at the initiative, which the administration may consider politically palatable because it can be seen as kind to businesses and workers both. President Barack Obama recently praised the program: "If they hire you full-time, then the unemployment insurance is used to subsidize you getting trained and getting a job."

HuffPost readers: Have you participated in Georgia Works? How about Platform to Employment in Connecticut or the Minnesota Emergency Employment Development initiative? Tell us about it -- email arthur@huffingtonpost.com. Please include your phone number if you're willing to do an interview.

Georgia Works' detractors say it gives businesses free labor; its proponents say the training tryout reduces a company's hiring risks, and they have numbers showing its success.

From its 2003 launch to the end of 2010, some 30,866 trainees entered the program, according to data provided to HuffPost by the Georgia Department of Labor. Of that total, 5,089 workers -- 16.4 percent -- were hired by the company that trained them during or at the end of the training period. (The department says that among workers who completed the full eight-week training, the employment rate is 24 percent.)

How does this success rate stack up to the overall rate at which once-unemployed Georgians have gone back to work? It's probably in the same ballpark.

Census Bureau data show that in 2007 and 2008, 15 percent of Georgians who'd been out of work for six months or longer found work within one month of a survey, according to Jesse Rothstein, an associate professor of economics and public policy at the University of California at Berkeley. In 2009 and 2010, the number fell to 10 percent.

So Georgia Works may have given the jobless a boost, but Census numbers don't make for a clean comparison. They're even less helpful for evaluating the 90-day claim. The key difference is that Census numbers are a snapshot of how many people are employed at a given moment, while the Georgia Works numbers only reflect whether someone worked at any point over a longer period of time.

"So as long as this program is kept truly voluntary, I think it is worth trying," professor Rothstein said in an email. "But I don't think we should count on a program working without more evidence than seems to be available for this one. As an experiment, it's a great idea. But there are other arrows in the quiver, many with more promise than this one -- we should be trying them too. I'm a lot more worried about undershooting than about overshooting."

Micheal Thurmond, the former Georgia labor commissioner who has built a national reputation for himself since creating the program, has a similar view. "It's a strategy. It's a concept. Different states have done it differently," Thurmond told HuffPost. "I'm not advocating Georgia's program, but it's a concept that really has proved to be successful."

Enrollment in the program slowed drastically this year after the state labor department cut the stipend from $600 to $240 and restricted access to only those workers receiving unemployment benefits (it had been opened to nonrecipients in 2010). As of this week the program boasts just 19 trainees.

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The Georgia Department of Labor has said that within three months of participating in a voluntary job training program, nearly two-thirds of trainees found work. The program has been copied by other s...
The Georgia Department of Labor has said that within three months of participating in a voluntary job training program, nearly two-thirds of trainees found work. The program has been copied by other s...
The Georgia Department of Labor has said that within three months of participating in a voluntary job training program, nearly two-thirds of trainees found work. The program has been copied by other s...
The Georgia Department of Labor has said that within three months of participating in a voluntary job training program, nearly two-thirds of trainees found work. The program has been copied by other s...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
seanny53
Things fall apart, the center cannot hold
03:48 PM on 09/11/2011
FDR's policy was try something, and if that doesn't work, try another. I have misgivings, but maybe this is worth a try on a national level.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
chango369
Jesus was a liberal.
09:35 AM on 09/07/2011
If the $240 stipend is all you get, then with the 24*8 (192) hours worked, it comes out to 0.80 an hour. I don't know how this would be effective to anyone that has completely exhausted their benefits.
10:19 AM on 09/02/2011
step 10 I get my job, step 11 my family adjusts to my job, my kids go to childcare, I end up buying my own gas and uniform because the Workforce doesn't have my funding yet, step 12 My job is fantastic and I love it and I learn a lot, and I earn exactly the same amount I was earning by just job searching on Unemployment, step 13 I lose my job after 8 weeks and I have to take my kids out of their daycare and explain to my family why I lost my job, step 14 grieve lost job, step 15 call and wait on hold with Unemployment Insurance to see why my check is messed up now.

Some issues to consider.
10:19 AM on 09/02/2011
What if, say, I'm that worker who wants that freebie job for 8 weeks. Step 1 I go in and they have no clue what I'm talking about because there are so many programs, step 2 I leave a message for a worker who might know, step 3 two weeks later they call me and tell me to fill out an application, step 4 my application waits for some TANF freebie worker to enter it into the database, step 5 a month later someone calls me to attend an orientation, step 6 after the orientation I wait a few weeks to see a case worker, step 7 I bring in all my paperwork and proof of identity, income, my resume, etc., step 8 I get approved and then have an appointment to talk about how they're going to help me with gas, childcare, a uniform, step 9 I wait a week for all that to be approved ...
10:16 AM on 09/02/2011
By the way, the WPA program never really ended -- it morphed into the programs that are now under the umbrella of the WIA program (Workforce Investment Act). The Workforce grew out of programs like WPA.
10:16 AM on 09/02/2011
This program from the Georgia Workforce seems like an extension of the type of programs that's used to put people on Food Stamps (SNAP!) and TANF (Temporary Assistance to Needy Families) back to work. After six weeks of collecting TANF and not finding a job, they have the option (or they're forced) to go to work free. Of course they receive some supportive services and funds from the WIA (Workforce Investment Act) program -- support like utility payments, childcare subsidies, gas cards, etc. The issues with extending this program to those receiving Unemployment Insurance might be these: first, the Workforce centers across the country who'll be administering the program are likely already having difficulty with all the regulations involved in "job development" and this program will add more regulations and increase the startup time for Workforce staff and the employers. An employer has to be willing to navigate this process of job development with the Workforce staff. Second, the employers were called upon to give workers a chance back when we had the Stimulus packages -- there was a similar program to hire youth. If an employer hired a youth worker for the summer they got that worker free in exchange for providing some training and experience. That program worked pretty well after awhile, after the bottleneck of applicants was screened, oriented, and signed up, and after the employers were located, screened, etc. etc. Then the summer was over and the funding went away.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mustardhead98
Professional Fine Artist
09:18 AM on 08/29/2011
At this point anything that will get folks back into a job is aok with me. Not only are they receiving their unemployment, they are receiving a stipend, are in the job market (and as we all know it's easier to get a job if one is employed) and have a possibility of being hired IF they are deemed as valuable to the company.

It's a win win situation and alot better than sitting back collecting a check once a month for doing absolutely nothing. Nothing rips a persons pride down quicker than being long term unemployed.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ObamaLover1
08:56 AM on 08/29/2011
Here is a novel idea..Instead of prognasticating what will happen..Lets wait to see what the President says...then we can say if the plan makes sense or not. I dont think this is the enitire job plan..this maybe only a very small piece of it. The media always wants to feed us bits and pieces; horrible way of reporting if you ask me.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Eileenla
Author, "Sacred Economics"
08:08 AM on 08/29/2011
It doesn't sound like the program isn't successful so much as the data has not been adequately collected. I'd suggest a better follow up study is in order to determine the true efficacy of the program.
10:24 AM on 09/02/2011
There are only 20 people on this program. They're probably the ones who were persistent enough to go through all the steps necessary to get through the fragmented and somewhat dysfunctional Workforce system. There are constant studies and tracking done on how similar programs around the country are doing. Every Workforce Development Board tracks effectiveness of job training, job development, job readiness, job placement, etc. etc.
12:13 AM on 08/29/2011
The idea that people are unemployed because they don't have the required skills for the jobs available defies all logic. It is pure and simple that the amount of jobs available is finite and it will not change if more people get more training. Maybe there will be more people competing for the same job, but that's it. I don't see companies complaining about the lack of skilled labor. They actually have a surplus of applicants, which actually drives workers pay down and make them more easily replaceable.
10:29 AM on 09/02/2011
Training for in-demand jobs (such as green jobs, heating and cooling, diesel mechanic, xray tech, etc.) is one of the most effective ways to get re-employed. The #1 most effective way to find a job is to network, which is how about 30 to 40 percent of jobs are found. Working at a company for 8 weeks is a good way to network.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ejfreeman
06:10 PM on 08/28/2011
If Georgia did it you can bet it's corrupt, Washington has always come up with job plans that only benefit the rich, where is the real change we voted for.
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Quitcherbichin
If you are posting here, thank a veteran.
10:24 PM on 08/28/2011
"Washington has always come up with job plans that only benefit the rich, "

That has got to be the most asinine comment I have seen in a long time.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ejfreeman
09:11 AM on 08/29/2011
You have never set in a classroom where nothing was taught or gone to a stadium that
nobody wanted or built planes and helicopers that didn't fly. Who benefited most from
idiot progams that gave 90 % to the top That's a government jobs program.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mochaview
My micro-bio approves boycotting corporations
03:43 PM on 08/28/2011
It's time for the media to give an accurate number of those actually unemployed. It sure ain't no 6.2 million, try 31million. So sick and tired of being ignored. Anarchy isn't going to come from a group of teens out of control, it's going to come from the millions of forgotten 99ers who just fell off the rolls and were told they're unhirable simply because they're unemployed.
Once they've lost everything, they're going to tear the place up and it'll happen in the suburbs first among all those foreclosed houses. It'll start with people living in cars, parked outside coporate headquarters, with nothing left but to come after the ones responsible for it. The media, of course will pretend like nothings happening or it's not as bad as it looks.
05:22 PM on 08/28/2011
I was a 99er and frustrated everyday without a job. I was lucky to get a job (not federally funded) in the state from which President (praying) Rich Perry is coming from. But with every federal program program to put people back to work, it lasts a while and without producing a product, it fails. Jobs have to have a cascading effect where one job has to depend on another (profitable) job. I wish I had a magic wand to bring all jobs back to the US and put people back to work. Where made in the USA is worn with pride! As politicians are in the pockets of lobbyists and Wall Street, the unemployed will continue to suffer. The government's statement, "tax breaks for the rich will create jobs" is just more rhetoric from the Obama administration. People, as has occurred in other countries, will get tired of the rich having everything while their kids starve and die.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mustardhead98
Professional Fine Artist
09:12 AM on 08/29/2011
Excellent post Mocha and excellent reply Richard!! F & F!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mochaview
My micro-bio approves boycotting corporations
09:43 PM on 08/29/2011
There are protests starting up in Israel about this very thing. People have to become infromed and start questioning things like why a corporation is considered a person. The first time I heard it in college I questioned it but everyone just accepted it. I still don't get it. If corporations like Halliburton and Goldman are people I'd like to kick them in the soft sensitive parts. It'll take awhile for Americans to amass and start protesting. There are mechanisms in place to pacify or distract from the real truth that work here. However, once no one has money to pay for cable, power for the video games, money to see movies that fuel this desire for material goods, etc. then they will tear theplace up. That day is coming. Corporate greed is out of control and right now they have things locked up. Only angry people demanding changes or natural disaster will turn the greedy from their wicked ways.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Epilef2000
Cafe Con Leche Party
01:59 PM on 08/28/2011
In a town I lived in walmart moved in with no local taxes for a number of years...and when the tax break was up, they threatened to leave if tax advantages weren't extended.

So we have corporations, that receive no or significantly reduced taxes....while entrepreneurs are required to pay all their taxes, fees etc. Meanwhile, walmart's subsidized businesses bankrupt mom and pa businesses that were loyal to the community, had higher wages and flexibility withnworkers; one could actually talk to the owner instead of corporate which is another word for 'lack of responsibility'
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Quitcherbichin
If you are posting here, thank a veteran.
10:26 PM on 08/28/2011
It is called "free enterprise".
10:03 AM on 08/28/2011
He has no plan now and didn't in the past as indicated by all those SHOVEL READY JOBS he
had for us. Nor this Jeff Immelt building plants in China jobs for China, not American Citizens.
So I guess if you want a job under obamason you have to move to China.
05:24 PM on 08/28/2011
Shovel ready meant, just shovel the taxpayers money out the door into someones pocket!
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AZreb
equal-opportunity Independent heathen
09:24 AM on 08/28/2011
So, in the past these people received $600 on top of their unemployment checks - but when the money dropped to $240, the number of trainees dropped, too. Will the government plan include an extra "stipend" of up to $600? Gosh - a lot of workers now are happy if they get that on a two-week paycheck for a 40-hour week.
10:07 AM on 08/28/2011
If you want a real job, you have to move to China where Immelt and Reid have sent all the job openings. I don't know the hiring practice of China, but I do know the pay isn't all that great
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
boehnerstan
anti establishment is SO in
04:43 PM on 08/28/2011
In reality, since the global recession kicked in, job losses in the manufacturing sector in China have totaled 34 million.