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Proposition 8 Returns To Court: Judge Mulls Unsealing Videos Of Trial

Proposition 8

LISA LEFF   08/29/11 04:07 PM ET   AP

SAN FRANCISCO — The legal sparring over California's same-sex marriage ban returned to a federal courtroom Monday with a judge hearing arguments on whether he should unseal video recordings of last year's landmark trial on the constitutionality of the voter-approved measure.

Lawyers representing two same-sex couples, the city of San Francisco and a coalition of media groups that includes The Associated Press asked Chief U.S. District Judge James Ware to make the recordings public.

They maintained that allowing people to see the proceedings for themselves was necessary to demonstrate why Ware's predecessor, former Chief Judge Vaughn Walker, ultimately struck down the ban, known as Proposition 8, and to counter any perceptions that Walker was biased against same-sex marriage opponents from the start.

"Releasing the video would allow everyone to review and make their own judgment about what happened," Theodore Boutrous, the couples' attorney, told the judge.

Ware did not rule at the end of Monday's hearing but said he would issue a written ruling at a later date.

Attorneys for the ban's backers want to keep the videos under wraps. They argued that disseminating oral and visual recordings of the 13-day trial would be a direct violation of the U.S. Supreme Court's position on the issue.

As the trial got under way in January 2010, the high court, on a 5-4 vote, blocked cameras from covering the high-profile case so they could be streamed live to other federal courthouses and possibly posted on YouTube.

Walker, asked the court staff to keep shooting the proceedings, but sealed the videos with the understanding that they were being produced for his own review in reaching a verdict.

"We were entitled to rely on those unqualified assurances, and we did," David Thompson, a lawyer for the religious and conservative groups that sponsored Proposition 8, said about the move by Walker.

In taking the matter under advisement, Ware said he was torn between the desire to preserve public access to court proceedings and upholding the integrity of the courts.

"The judicial process is affected when a judge takes the position of, "I will seal this and use it only for a limited purpose,' and then that is changed by a different judge and unsealed and used for a different purpose," the judge said.

Walker's ruling from last August overturning Proposition 8 as an unconstitutional violation of the civil rights of gay Californians is currently on appeal. The recordings are part of the case record before the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Also before the federal appeals court is the proponents' challenge to Ware's refusal in June to vacate Walker's decision. The ban's sponsors have argued that Walker should have revealed he was in a long-term gay relationship before he presided over the closely watched trial.

Boutrous said at Monday's hearing that the move to challenge Walker's impartiality made it more important for the public to see the videos first-hand.

"They tried to undermine the integrity of the court by attacking the proceeding," he said.

Ware did not seem convinced. He noted that during his 24 years on the bench, "I've had lots of parties attack me" and that it was up to the appeals court, not the public, to decide if Walker had acted appropriately.

Gay rights supporters already have used the written transcripts to recreate the full 13-day trial for online audiences. Next month, Morgan Freeman, Marisa Tomei and other big-name actors are scheduled to perform a dramatic play about the trial that screenwriter Dustin Lance Black, who won an Academy Award for the film "Milk," created from the written testimony.

To those who have not been following the Proposition 8 narrative closely, it therefore may not be immediately obvious why attorneys were spending their time and clients' money fighting over the recordings as if they were the Nixon White House tapes.

Gay rights supporters claim the footage is their smoking gun, proof that arguments against same-sex marriage cannot hold up under rules of evidence sustained scrutiny and legal standards.

They want to use live segments, especially the cross-examinations to which the expert witnesses called by Proposition 8's supporters were subjected, to nudge the American public further in its embrace of same-sex marriage, although it's unclear what the vehicle for the snippets would be.

"There really is only one question--what do they have to hide?" said American Foundation for Equal Rights President Chad Griffin, whose group is funding the Proposition 8 case.

The Proposition 8 defense team, meanwhile, has argued that putting the trial recordings into the public realm could subject their witnesses to unwanted scrutiny in a way that written transcripts have not.

In persuading the Supreme Court to block the broadcasts, lawyers had argued that same-sex marriage opponents feared being harassed by gay rights supporters if their images were distributed widely.

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SAN FRANCISCO — The legal sparring over California's same-sex marriage ban returned to a federal courtroom Monday with a judge hearing arguments on whether he should unseal video recordings of l...
SAN FRANCISCO — The legal sparring over California's same-sex marriage ban returned to a federal courtroom Monday with a judge hearing arguments on whether he should unseal video recordings of l...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
judi9694
08:21 AM on 09/20/2011
Religious beliefs that discriminate are sinful. To court with you! You can believe what ever you want, it is a free country, but to impose and criminalize what goes on between two consenting adults is none of your business. Does anyone legislate your sex position in accordance with GOD style? It's time to abolish religion!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sf1000000
Screw being nice its highly overrated
09:15 PM on 09/04/2011
When are we Going to enforce the laws of this country for the seperation of Church and state?
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Ossit
Ossit
06:46 PM on 08/31/2011
We had an interior decorator named Bill. He was such a happy guy. When he said he was gay I thought that meant happy. Well my father who was pretty progressive in most things was terrified when he was left in the room alone with Bill. I had to straighten him out and I always chastised mom about being nice to Bill in person then mocking him in private. I hated the hypocrisy and told her. She never did it again. Sadly Bill's family hated him and when his father died wouldn't even let him go to the funeral simply because he was gay and he would cry to us when he mentioned it because that's how close he was with us. I've not seen him since '77. I sure hope he's okay. I adored that man. With his interior decorating pizazz he made the living room an amazing showcase of color and texture. I feel honored to have known him. I'm not saying he was special simply because he was gay. He just WAS an amazing person naturally.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sf1000000
Screw being nice its highly overrated
09:01 PM on 09/04/2011
Thank you for bring a smile to my face...what a great story
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Ossit
Ossit
10:51 PM on 09/04/2011
You're welcome. Bill was wild. His sister was a belly dance whom I heard swore like a sailor. I never met her. I don't even remember his last name.
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Ossit
Ossit
06:22 PM on 08/31/2011
thanks Ioan Lightoller for fanning and faving me. Cool that you're married, cool that you call your hubby what he is, your hubby and great that you call your joining a marriage. It's a shame though that too many are satisfied with domestic partnership or civil union. And I hope you two, if you want, adopt kids, and I bet you two would be the best dads and parents around.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bob Kellerman
Let's have more sanity toward each other
03:53 AM on 08/31/2011
As I have written before (for any new folks)

THE WHOLE ISSUE IS MONEY AND POWER BY THE MORMON, CATHOLIC, AND EVAN ORGANIZATIONS

They are deathly afraid of having any "sin" made OK, as it will start their own people thinking. Thinking means fewer members, less money, less power.

GAYS ARE SIMPLY THE PAWNS, ONLY COLLATERAL DAMAGE, not really hated, just powerless enough for the "churches" to trash, replacing Blacks and Latins, who can no longer be publicly trashed without repercussions.

ANY RELIGION BASED ON HAVING ENEMIES IS A FALSE RELIGION
AND AN AFFRONT TO GOD
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Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
11:21 PM on 08/30/2011
"The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitud­es of political controvers­y, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials, and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamenta­l rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections. "
-- Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
08:50 PM on 08/30/2011
Why? Because prejudice and bigotry look different in the light of day. Because they might be harmed economically. Because small minds, while historically economical, are hard to defend when your entire argument is based on rumor, innuendo, and mythology.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
12:48 AM on 08/31/2011
The bigots donated money for the campaign to withhold/revoke rights of law-abiding, tax-playing US citizens and basically thought it would never come to light of day. Excuse me, but I really cannot work up sympathy for those who would deny others the rights they not only enjoy but expect to enjoy themselves. Actions have consequences.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Spank05
07:46 PM on 08/30/2011
"The Proposition 8 defense team, meanwhile, has argued that putting the trial recordings into the public realm could subject their witnesses to unwanted scrutiny in a way that written transcripts have not."

How does that stand to reason? They're already part of the legal court record. Anyone that wants to know who these people are can easily find out their identities.
09:50 PM on 08/30/2011
Yeah, all both of them. ;-)
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sf1000000
Screw being nice its highly overrated
09:05 PM on 09/04/2011
Because it will show these religous Zealots to be the merchants of hate that we know..scorn? I think they are scared stiff that if we heard their words and voices this country would vomit, and it would endanger their little Teaparty and the Right does not want anyone to see them in the light of day..
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Baileygk
homosexual socialist, and proud of it!
05:50 PM on 08/30/2011
2011 and hate is still trying to hide behind a proverbial white robe.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
onionboy
Blessed are the Cheese Makers
04:28 PM on 08/30/2011
Of COURSE they should be unsealed. The pro-8 side keeps going on and on about this being the will of the public.

Then make it ALL PUBLIC. Let's see who is for, against, and footing the bills.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
John E Priegnitz
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
03:41 PM on 08/30/2011
Hey Moderators, where in this comment do I violate any part or portion of the guidelines for placing comments?

Sunlight is after all the best disinfectant. As for the backers of keeping this footage clandestine their sorry excuse is that they fear those who were filmed wishing to keep members of the LGBT Community as second class citizens may be harassed and even threatened. I can not recall a single incident where there was a "straight bashing" being reported. However, I can think of numerous cases where these bigots have specifical­ly targeted men, women, children and their families for being (or being perceived) as being gay.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ozmas mirror
Sadly, accidental rudeness occurs alarmingly often
03:16 PM on 08/30/2011
"We were entitled to rely on those unqualified assurances, and we did,"
Translation: We never would have exposed ourselves as big meanie heads whose only argument against gay marriage is that we are under the mistaken impression that the big invisible man in the sky objects to it. Also, we don't like gay people and feel that allowing them to marry will appear to be tacit approval for them to have all of that icky, icky gay sex that we despise so much but can't stop describing in such loving, gory detail.
'...lawyers had argued that same-sex marriage opponents feared being harassed by gay rights supporters if their images were distributed widely.'

"Because harrassment is only right if WE do it. See, it's right here in the bible. Oh, wait, where was it? I know it was in there somewhere...."
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
onionboy
Blessed are the Cheese Makers
04:29 PM on 08/30/2011
Other translation...we never would have said such hateful things in open court if we ever thought they might one day actually be attributed to us.

Roaches love the dark. Let's shine a light.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
bzimmerman
07:29 PM on 09/02/2011
As I remember, many of the pro-8ters refused to testify if they were going to be "outed". It would seem that would nullify their testimony right there.
Court proceedings, (except for grand jury) are public, and should remain that way. I can understand a criminal witness being fearful to testify publicly, but not a civil witness.
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Ossit
Ossit
02:32 PM on 08/30/2011
I'm all for same-sex marriage. It must be legal in all states. Gay marriage must have the same legal rights and benefits as a straight marriage and be CALLED a marriage. Nothing like saying demanding to be legally married but say " oh by the way meet my "partner". Nothing like demanding to be legally married in all ways just like straights, but call your significant other boyfriend or girlfriend only in the privacy of your own homes or only in the gay community. Nothing like demanding the right to be legally married but settle with the demeaning civil union, domestic partnership monikers. You want a real marriage, then CALL yourselves married. CALL your significant other your wife or husband, NOT your partner in public. You want all the rights and priviledges of a legalized marriage in ways then demand that your licenses actually SAY marriage not the settling civil union or domestic partnership breathing a sigh of relief that you got that much, hoping some day way in the future same sex marriages will actually BE called a marriage. If you want to be legally married in all ways and benefits as do it because it's your right, NOT to justify your sexuality behind it so now you're suddenly legitimized. I think this article is basically that. Let's legitimize things. Show not show. How 'bout just making it damn legal in every state without all the posturing.
04:09 PM on 08/30/2011
We are one of the California 18k couples. We always use the term married, we refer to each other as "wife" (given that we are females). I have encouraged those in states with civil unions, to refer to their spouses as spouses because I think words are important and the more people hear "wife" or "husband" the less alien it will start to become. We have a license and certificate of marriage that is identical to every other license and certificate of marriage issued in the summer 2008 in California. And of the several legally married same sex couples we know, they all refer to themselves as married and use the "husband"/"wife" terminology, not "partner." As an aside, I am in a class with several Mormons, and a few are elderly ladies; there was a bit of cognitive dissonance when I referred to my wife as such, but I simply repeated it a few times and now they seem to roll with it. And miracle of miracles, last Mother's Day weekend I took my wife's mom to an art show and we met an artist there that my wife and I know personally, who referred to me as "your daughter-in-law." Amazingly, she started using that term--this after three years of not knowing exactly what to call me (she was at our wedding, so it wasn't disapproval, she just wasn't all that sure). Step by step by step...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
04:18 PM on 08/30/2011
Step by step, indeed. I was shocked when my mother told my husband to call her "Mom" and totally accepted him as her son-in-law.
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09:25 PM on 08/30/2011
Me too
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vivicca Whitsett
Actor, Comedian, Host, Activist
02:04 PM on 08/30/2011
All things should be transparent. I think the religious idiots (no offense to village idiots the world over) who are in favor of Prop8 don't want the public to truly see that the Mormon's are financing this piece of discrimination. As such, I think the Mormon Church, along with any other churches who are showing their support by financing this should have their books look at by the IRS because I do believe this is in violation of the separation of church and state and they should have their tax exempt status revoked. You want to play with the big boys in government, then lets level the playing field and stop with the government tax breaks for churches spewing hate.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Married Gay Pagan Man
03:42 PM on 08/30/2011
Supposedly all these people are good Christians or Mormons and that includes not lying...not bearing false witness. So live your religion. Let the chips fall where they may and let the tapes be shown. Not the fault of GLBT people that there is no rational reason to deny us legal marriage.

And yep, the tax-breaks for the hate-churches need to GO. The more tax they have to pay, the less I have to pay. Why should I have to finance their bigotry with my tax dollars through their tax exemptions?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mollymac
nice girls seldom get the corner office
06:29 PM on 09/03/2011
Have you noticed that Xtians call themselves "good Xtians? I am not really sure why that descriptor is necessary.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Madbunny
Prison Guard - FireFighter - now a School Teacher
01:23 PM on 08/30/2011
This was a state case right? I mean the case was initially Perry vs Schwartzenegger, (later sometimes called Perry vs Brown thanks to the circumlocution of defense.)

Shouldn't this be made available under the freedom of information act?

I mean we're talking about a group called "protectmarriage.com" led by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Hollingsworth With a LOT of money out of Utah.

It is my opinion that since we're talking about a law and constitutionality in general rather than a personal conflict we should err to the side of transparency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_v._Schwarzenegger
02:19 PM on 08/30/2011
It's actually a federal case (US District Court) and is now in appeals (9th Circuit). The appeals court is awaiting a decision from the CA Supreme Court regarding standing; oral arguments will be heard in September with a decision possibly before the end of the year, but no guarantees. The transcripts are available online (I found them at the AFER website), but the tapes are somewhat different (the live blog of yesterday's hearing is at the Prop 8 Trial Tracker website) and the hearing addressed that, but I still came away confused.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Madbunny
Prison Guard - FireFighter - now a School Teacher
03:02 PM on 08/30/2011
ah. Thank you for the correction.
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09:24 PM on 08/30/2011
Oral arguments on the issue of federal Standing Question to the California Supreme Court are this tuesday the 6th and you can watch live on the California Channel or just google it for the website it will begin at 10 am PT
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
onionboy
Blessed are the Cheese Makers
04:31 PM on 08/30/2011
Of course. Especially when we have so much money from out of state to try and affect our state elections.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Madbunny
Prison Guard - FireFighter - now a School Teacher
09:54 PM on 08/30/2011
I must admit, that was a wrinkle that surprised me. I mean, 40 million dollars?