Virginia Ten Commandments Lawsuit: Civil-Liberties Groups Sue Southwest Virginia School Board For Posting Ten Commandments

RICHMOND, Va. -- Civil-liberties groups are suing a southwest Virginia school board for posting the Ten Commandments, contending that the display violates the Constitution's guarantee of separation of church and state.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia filed the lawsuit Tuesday against Giles County School Board in U.S. District Court in Roanoke on behalf of an unidentified Narrows High School student and the student's parent. The lawsuit says the display unconstitutionally promotes a specific religious faith and serves no secular purpose.

It seeks to have the Ten Commandments removed from school walls and a ban on further display of the biblical documents.

After removing them during the school year, school board members voted in June to rehang the biblical texts as part of displays that include other U.S. historical documents.

Comments

[suebeedue]

01:32 PM on 09/26/2011

We are no longer under the ten commandments as Christians. Jesus, born a Jew, was under the Law and he (and only he) kept it perfectly. That is why the law was a tutor leading to Christ--to show that no one but a perfect man could keep the law, and that mankind needed a savior. He paid the ransom by his sacrificial death on behalf of mankind, which freed those under the Law of Moses, which included the ten commandments (Galatians 3:13; Colossians 2:13,14).

Nevertheless, a study of the Law with its ten commandments (words- decalogue) is essential for Christians, for it reveals God's viewpoint of matters and it was a shadow of the reality that belongs to Christ (Hebrews10:1, Col. 2:17; Galatians 6:2).

Now the 2 greatest laws stand for Christians: first--to love God with our whole heart, soul and strength and the second, like it is: to love our neighbor as ourselves. On these 2 commandments and the whole Law and the prophets hang (Matthew 22:34-40).

This world is getting more and more atheistic- but that was prophesied, and it is getting harder to be a Christian under these 2 commandments, but we must persevere. Obey the law - keep it out of school and follow the Christ to redemption--do not look to our government to supply it.

[quixmar]

10:25 AM on 09/25/2011

I am surprised to still be receiving replies to this story. Perhaps this will settle the issue. From THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT - You know, that judicial body that the Liberals love, unless they are over-ruled in a case, as in this example...

"Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer (the Lord Jesus Christ). It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are empathically Christian... this a Christian people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation... we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth... these, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

US Supreme Court decision, Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, (1892)

Jefferson (often used to argue against God or a "Christian" America) said the following...
"God who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that this justice cannot sleep forever."

[kencrn419]

07:43 PM on 09/25/2011

Your 'Supreme Court' story is a myth, only believed by practiced myth believers.

Please read:
http://atheism.about.com/od/churchstatemyths/a/AmericaChristianNation.htm

[rjh252a1]

03:58 PM on 09/26/2011

Maybe you should check the factual web sites and not the propaganda sites.
You know like this one: http://supreme.justia.com/us/143/457/case.html

[phal4875]

06:34 PM on 09/21/2011

One would think that the devout Christians in these schools would know the commandments by heart. Why post them if they are already "written on the heart?" If they are posted in order to convert others, that is a religious act that is forbidden

[Conuly]

08:15 PM on 09/22/2011

Given that so many people seem to not be able to list them I don't think any of them have EVER read them, much less memorized them.

[phal4875]

05:03 PM on 09/21/2011

It is difficult to understand why any government body would post the Ten Commandments. The first four have to do with a particular god and with a day of rest required by that same god. The fifth has to do with honoring one's parents. Three of the next four would be laws in any normal and just society - don't kill, rob, or engage in perjury. The remaining one of the four - adultery - is punished almost nowhere in the U.S. The final one of the Ten Commandments appears to be nothing more than a thought crime. Some say it is a prohibition against both wanting and stealing, but the eighth commandment already covers stealing.

[Imagebuffet]

04:15 PM on 09/24/2011

The U.S. government spends considerable time, money and effort posting statements that are nothing more than ideals. For example, inside the Statue of Liberty a plaque contains a poem written by Emma Lazarus, "The New Colossus." None of the lines of that poem are law. Yet, government agencies in the U.S. put up and maintain that statue and that plaque on public land, as an illustration of an ideal. Why do we have monuments at all? They commemorate and inspire ideals that we find worthwhile. They express our culture.

[EIZEL]

11:33 AM on 09/21/2011

Don't fetch your god to town Bill, leave your faith at home Frank..., that is if you want to be happy - and insist on all other "suckers" doing the same!!!

[quixmar]

08:57 AM on 09/20/2011

I'm speaking very simplistic since many don't read past the Tag Line or parrot others.
You know, sometimes when life hands you a bucket of lemons (Ten Commandments get pulled from school) and you argue with fools long enough (some of the jokers who refused to be educated in fact) God Himself makes lemonade!

Thank you my Liberal friends! I have been saying this for the past few days and shall shortly be contacting the Giles County School Board with a suggestion that they capitulate and remove the Ten Commandments thereby settling the lawsuit, where the ACLU will reap in millions of taxpayer dollars anyway, and post The Mayflower Compact.

Problem solved! Thanks again! More proof that some people just don't think about what they do.

[quixmar]

08:14 AM on 09/20/2011

Plenty of banter on this issue back and forth. There were only TWO challenges to "religion" in the US Supreme Court until 1947, when the Liberal cockroaches somehow became a great infestation upon the land. They are the ones who are upset and making the problem into a problem. God was a given in American society from it's inception. Read The Mayflower Compact (America's first governing document). Alexander Hamilton when asked why God was not mentioned in the Constitution, he replied that "We simply forgot." Why? Because God was a given! Simple. A false statement attributed to George Washington has him stating that "The united States is not founded upon the Christian Religion." Why false? Because that line is only found in the English version of the Treaty of Tripoli. (If it were meant for Muslim consumption, I’m sure it would have been in the Arabic version of the document.) When Washington read this, he is quoted as having said "Can this possibly be true?"

The biggest problem we face in America is not religious at all. It is revisionism. Liberals are revising everything this nation has stood for. Obama himself thinks he needs to “reshape” America into his image.

“Separation of Church and State” was something that Liberal Supreme Court Judge Hugo Black made up, but I bet he has since changed his mind after actually meeting God in person. America is in the sad shape that it’s in because we no longer RESPECT God.

[taoistpunk]

10:06 AM on 09/21/2011

revisionism is the biggest problem facing america?

it's not loss of jobs and manufacturing, debt, dysfunctional government or educational issues?

don't get me wrong, i'm sure you'd make a fine puritan in that cute little bonnet and all, but just because you want to ignore the fact that earlier colonies were built on the manufacture and sale of one of, if not the most addictive and damaging drugs, won't actually whitewash the situation.

it might be worth asking yourself how many from the mayflower signed the constitution.

the US is in no way beholden to religious thought or governance.

as Jefferson clearly stated:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

so, your, "America is in the sad shape that it’s in because we no longer RESPECT God. "
is just another of the [revisionist] fables like those Jefferson mentioned.

[quixmar]

08:30 PM on 09/21/2011

Jefferson didn't believe in organized religion. He also said the following:
"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others."

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever."

"It is in our lives and not our words that our religion must be read."

"The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time."

I say... "Men who do not believe in God, make themselves god." Ask Hitler about that one.

[EIZEL]

11:41 AM on 09/21/2011

Good Christians, same like good Muslims; never bet sir..., especially when God is involved. If there is no way of finding out from Hugo Black, I'd advise not to bet against God - never!

[phal4875]

05:13 PM on 09/21/2011

Dear EIZEL:

Are you talking about the loving God of the Bible? The God who has killed a greater percentage of the earth's population than any dictator in history? Is this the God who ordered that every human in towns in Canaan be killed and who sometimes ordered that "virgin women" be put aside during this killing in order to later be forced into marriage to those who killed everyone else in their towns? Orders to murder and engage in forcible rape do not a good God make. Perhaps, however, you have another God in mind.

[Ellamenta]

09:12 PM on 09/19/2011

The Ten Commandments are not a US historical document. End of argument.

[Imagebuffet]

02:08 AM on 09/21/2011

The Ten Commandments are an important precedent in the Western concept of law. The U.S. is part of the West; therefore, the Ten Commandments are part of the U.S. concept of law.

[phal4875]

05:07 PM on 09/21/2011

Only the commandments that deal with killing, adultery, stealing, and perjury have any place in Western law. Adultery is no longer on the team. What society would, without these commandments, not have laws against killing, stealing, and perjury? To say that the Ten Commandments contribute anything useful to Western law is incorrect.

[taoistpunk]

05:28 PM on 09/21/2011

In common law legal systems, a precedent or authority is a principle or rule established in a legal case that a court or other judicial body may apply when deciding subsequent cases with similar issues or facts. Black's Law Dictionary defines "precedent" as a "rule of law established for the first time by a court for a particular type of case and thereafter referred to in deciding similar cases."[1]

that's the wiki.

so here is my question:

what was court and the legal case in which the 10 commandments were established so that they could become this "important precedent"?

[EIZEL]

11:45 AM on 09/21/2011

Are the Ten Commandments (I was taught at school that, there were 12 of them) any document at all then?

[SkreetGil1]

07:10 PM on 09/19/2011

Man, Virginia is messed up.

Stop trying to push your religion on us! If you want a religious school go teach at a religious school!

We are not a theocracy!

Move to Afganistan if you want to live that way!

[Imagebuffet]

02:09 AM on 09/21/2011

Afghanistan is Muslim, not Christian.

[phal4875]

05:16 PM on 09/21/2011

Dear Imagebuffet:

I think that SkreetGil1 is making that very point - that one should move to a theocratic nation if one wants a theocratic school system. He or she was not implying that Afghanistan is Christian, if my reading of the post is correct.

[SkreetGil1]

08:23 PM on 09/21/2011

OMG you cannot be that ignorant.

[suebeedue]

08:20 PM on 09/18/2011

Many of the posts here sound like Republicans vs. Democrats; Democrats vs. Republicans -- now, though, it seems to be atheists vs. theists and theists vs. atheists. Sounds like the same kind of hate that politics goes through. This world is being so divided and hate is the motivator. okay-- religion is not wanted in school. okay----- everyone but a few get the message. People who believe in God are probably not going to stop believing in God and people who don't believe in God are probably not going to start believe in God. WE GET IT!! now everyone stop the hate -- this world is bad enoughl we need is peace.. ... EVERYONE--- live and let live PLEASE, or are those days over?

[StevenM]

07:06 AM on 09/19/2011

Re: "People who believe in God are probably not going to stop believing in God and people who don't believe in God are probably not going to start believe in God."

The problem is not that people are different. If Christians could just practice their religion without trying to force it on others, there wouldn't be the problem there is.

[allisonisa39e]

07:50 PM on 09/20/2011

I just hope the persons practicing Islam don't try to force it on others, but
The Prophet who is considered to be the "Perfect Man" practiced what Allah had forwarded to him "kill the Infidels". He practiced it with a lot of energy.

[phal4875]

05:19 PM on 09/21/2011

Christians are just following the lead of their founder, the apostle Paul. He spent most of his life trying to turn anyone who had a heartbeat, brain wave, or a shallow breath toward his version of Christianity. It had little to do with Jesus' version; but Paul was still alive to propagandize, and Jesus was not.

[SkreetGil1]

07:14 PM on 09/19/2011

These christian talaban want to force this issue.

Why would they go against the law and put it up, just to be told to take it down, and then they put it up again?

They are pushing the issue. And they will not win!

[dbrett480]

02:27 PM on 09/18/2011

Heaven forbid an atheist has to look at the Ten Commandments. They may be scared for life.

[Larsami1]

03:31 PM on 09/18/2011

Nah probably just say they're BS and walk away. After thinking of how they could get them removed of course.

[lookbuzz]

04:05 PM on 09/18/2011

No religious displays in a public school - you have your home and your church to do as you please.

Why is that so hard to understand?

[dbrett480]

04:31 PM on 09/18/2011

I understand the separation, but what I don't get is the false sense of outrage whenever they see anything having to do with God.

[EIZEL]

12:25 PM on 09/22/2011

Don't take your god to town Bill, leave your religion at home son..., that is if you want to be happy - and insist on all other "suckers" doing the same!!! Keep all religions, beliefs, etc private. An open season must be declared on anyone fetching them into the public life!

[sueinmn]

05:26 PM on 09/17/2011

Some are tresting the waters of arrogance and ignorance. Keep breaking public education and using taxpayer money for charter schools via vouchers, we will soon be praying five times a day in public. Just as those who we are fighting in the East, the Sharia law is not far behind as these religious fanatics want to destroy all things secular. We should have taken away all tax breaks for the religious houses who practice politics and possibly this would not be happening.

[quixmar]

10:24 AM on 09/18/2011

I would LOVE for the government to take away tax exemptions for houses of worship. It would awaken a sleeping giant! The truth is government is often sticking their noses where it does not belong. The church cannot teach that homosexuality is wrong for fear of the government. Now how could that be? I thought there was separation between church and state. What business does the government have telling the church what it can or cannot teach? The Nazis did the same thing in Germany you know. Told the church to spread Nazism by not denouncing the evils of it. By the same token, it is the secularists who are trying to stifle religion, not the other way around, but then again most lefties don't understand facts if it him them in the coolie.

[jenniffer norman]

12:38 PM on 09/18/2011

What are you referring to where the government tells the churches what they can or cannot teach? Certainly not this country.

[Larsami1]

03:27 PM on 09/18/2011

Tax exemptions are a way for them to keep their foot of control in the door. So that way they're really not a totally separate entity.

[Binea]

09:06 AM on 09/20/2011

instead of prayer in school..they should just call it "meditation time" then there is no one religion or athiesm or whatever that is promoted. It will just be a time to quiet the mind and reflect or whatever ( think of a song you heard the other day ? )
It should remain illegalfor any teacher or student to lead in a prayer. Teacher can stand up and just call ... meditation time

[Bogstomper2]

10:47 AM on 09/17/2011

I hear a lot of Christians complain that they're treated poorly these days. Well, guess what? When you try to screw up our schools by rewriting the curricula to suit your religious opinions, when you try to lead America to reject science, and when you try to shove your commandments down our throats, you deserve to be treated poorly.

Your Ten Commandments don't apply to me, so keep them to yourself.

[Larsami1]

04:45 PM on 09/17/2011

Well at least two do. Thou shalt not kill or steal are current laws of the land. If you commit adultery, sure it's legal but what good can possibly come from it? Divorces, assaults and killings to name a few and the trauma you put the kids through. I suppose there's no harm in coveting what your neighbor has as long as it doesn't become an obsession. Lying can get you in big trouble. Many kids don't honor their parents and what good has come from that? You are free to do whatever you want, but some may have consequences.

[LearningCommunity]

07:43 AM on 09/18/2011

Larsami, interesting point that at least 2 commandments apply.

Not that you care, but let me tell you the problem with the commandments. They are static in a dynamic world.

Take, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour," You reference that as lying. I would tend to agree. But, many I talk to says that is only lying in court. Lying to sell your product, lying to protect a friend, Lying in a game, lying to soften bad news, and lying by omitting some piece of information that would change the other persons thinking, are all sort of ok.

And your point of kids respecting their parents is another good example. The commandment is for kids to respect parents, but who is the commandment directed toward. Might it be directed toward the parents. Might it say that if kids do not respect the parents it is the parents fault. Why blame the kid if the parents do not deserve respect? Or should the kid respect their parents no matter what the parents do.

Finally, killing. The KJV says "kill" other versions say "murder." Which is it? And is dropping bombs in Iraq killing or murdering? Is a women that does not take care of herself while pregnant "killing" or "murdering" her unbirthed child.

There are at least 613 commandments in the bible. What makes these 10 any more special than any other 10. Nothing.

[phal4875]

05:26 PM on 09/21/2011

Dear Larsami1:

I would argue that only three apply in today's industrial world: those against killing, stealing, and perjury. Adultery is far more commonly ignored than prosecuted.

[blbsmurf]

09:55 PM on 09/18/2011

Poor rationale. You and science try to debunk my beliefs based upon a theory that changes all the time and has no proof except for some bones. I have no proof of my beliefs either, I only have faith. Your religion of evolution is a religion based upon poor evidence and theories.

[Conuly]

10:40 AM on 09/19/2011

Actually, the theory of evolution doesn't change all the time. Whoever told you that lied to you. One of the defining features of a theory is that they've been confirmed, over and over, and aren't likely to need drastic revision. They're not hypotheses!

As for "no proof except for some bones", again, whoever told you that lied to you. There is also the proof of evolution that we see every day - whenever we breed a new type of fruit or a new breed of cat, whenever we accidentally breed a new drug-resistant bacteria, whenever we compare the genetics of two related species and see how similar they are, or compare their homologies (similar structures) - and yes, when we look at bones and see evidence of changes through time over many generations.

At one point, faithful Christians rejected the heliocentric model of the solar system. The Bible didn't SAY that the earth went around the sun, and so they refused to accept that. Over time, as more evidence accrued, Christians realized that the Bible was not literally true in this respect.

[CabinAgue]

01:51 PM on 09/19/2011

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory

You are using the 2nd meaning of the word "theory".  Scientists are using the 1st (FIRST) meaning.  It's not changing "all the time", only become more and more understood, with more detail.  It's all fascinating stuff.  And there is nothing BUT proof of evolution, tons and tons of it.  The fossil record is always really cool, and continues to confirm (again and again) evolution, but it is NOT the only proof. As Conuly said, there is proof of evolution everywhere, "some bones" possibly being the least of the evidence.

You have no idea how much you don't know.

[edacelis]

10:21 AM on 09/17/2011

"...school board members voted in June to rehang the biblical texts as part of displays that include other U.S. historical documents."

OTHER u.s. historical documents? Since when was the ten commandments one of many historical u.s. documents?

[Imagebuffet]

05:35 PM on 09/17/2011

Christianity is part of the foundation of Western Civilization. Our concept of ethics and laws springs from the Judeo-Christian tradition. The U.S. Founding Fathers referenced the Bible more than any other source in their writings.

[LearningCommunity]

07:59 AM on 09/18/2011

Image, thank you. That is a great point. Our founding fathers might have referenced the Bible more than any other source in their writings.

Let me ask you, do you think that is the way it should be today? Do you think the people responsible for establishing public policy should use the bible more than any other source in their writings? I don't. And clearly no one that establishes public policy today, does in fact use the bible more as a source of information than any other source.

So let's see, what is a better source of information for establishing a science curriculum, the bible or science books. Clearly Science books. What is the best source of information in establishing a civics curriculum, the bible or the US Constitution and Supreme court cases. (I understand that the bible my have influenced the Constitution in terms of support for slavery and oppressing women, but I am talking about teaching about the branches of government and the bill of rights.) And what is better at establishing a curriculum to teach reading/writing/math, the bible or education experts.

The point is the bible is not the best source of information today because it is static and locked for all time based on 2000 year old mythology.

[lookbuzz]

04:08 PM on 09/18/2011

And yet the Founding father were smart enough to keep the bible completely out of the Constitution - no references, no ackowledgements, not even a word.

Did you ever consider why? Honestly?

Do some real research on the deveolpment of the Constitution. It's fascinating stuff.

[Jasel]

10:10 AM on 09/17/2011

If it's a public school then posting the Ten commandments is illegal. Not sure why that's so complicated. From what I've read it sounds like the administration knew what they were doing was illegal to begin with but did it anyway.

I bet some of the same people who say "illegal is illegal" like a mantra when it comes to some undocumented worker trying to work and support his family being deported, are the same ones who have no problem with the law being broken as long as it promotes their religious dogma in a public institution.

[jenniffer norman]

12:46 PM on 09/18/2011

I agree 100%. My mother and two sisters live in this area, and the people truly do not care that this is illegal. I was quite proud of my youngest sister for not participating in the walk out over this subject last year, because she has been taught in a strongly religious household that I hope she will eventually be de-programmed from.

If we want to teach children to obey laws, let this be an example.

Teach your kids religion at home and in church! Not public school!