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Obama Buffett Rule Comments: Are Rich Actually Taxed At Higher Rate Than Middle Class?

STEPHEN OHLEMACHER   09/20/11 06:02 PM ET   AP

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama says he wants to make sure millionaires are taxed at higher rates than their secretaries. The data say they already are.

"Warren Buffett's secretary shouldn't pay a higher tax rate than Warren Buffett. There is no justification for it," Obama said as he announced his deficit-reduction plan this week. "It is wrong that in the United States of America, a teacher or a nurse or a construction worker who earns $50,000 should pay higher tax rates than somebody pulling in $50 million."

On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data. They pay at a higher rate, and as a group, they contribute a much larger share of the overall taxes collected by the federal government.

The 10 percent of households with the highest incomes pay more than half of all federal taxes. They pay more than 70 percent of federal income taxes, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

In his White House address on Monday, Obama called on Congress to increase taxes by $1.5 trillion as part of a 10-year deficit reduction package totaling more than $3 trillion. He proposed that Congress overhaul the tax code and impose what he called the "Buffett rule," named for the billionaire investor.

The rule says, "People making more than $1 million a year should not pay a smaller share of their income in taxes than middle-class families pay." Buffett wrote in a recent piece for The New York Times that the tax rate he paid last year was lower than that paid by any of the other 20 people in his office.

"Middle-class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires," Obama said. "That's pretty straightforward. It's hard to argue against that."

There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.

This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes, payroll taxes and other taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay an average of 15 percent of their income in federal taxes.

Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5 percent of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7 percent.

The latest IRS figures are a few years older – and limited to federal income taxes – but show much the same thing. In 2009, taxpayers who made $1 million or more paid on average 24.4 percent of their income in federal income taxes, according to the IRS.

Those making $100,000 to $125,000 paid on average 9.9 percent in federal income taxes. Those making $50,000 to $60,000 paid an average of 6.3 percent.

Obama's claim hinges on the fact that, for high-income families and individuals, investment income is often taxed at a lower rate than wages. The top tax rate for dividends and capital gains is 15 percent. The top marginal tax rate for wages is 35 percent, though that is reserved for taxable income above $379,150.

With tax rates that high, why do so many people pay at lower rates? Because the tax code is riddled with more than $1 trillion in deductions, exemptions and credits, and they benefit people at every income level, according to data from the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress' official scorekeeper on revenue issues.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that 46 percent of households, mostly low- and medium-income households, will pay no federal income taxes this year. Most, however, will pay other taxes, including Social Security payroll taxes.

"People who are doing quite well and worry about low-income people not paying any taxes bemoan the fact that they get so many tax breaks that they are zeroed out," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. "People at the bottom of the distribution say, `But all of those rich guys are getting bigger tax breaks than we're getting,' which is also the case."

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was pressed at a White House briefing on the number of millionaires who pay taxes at a lower rate than middle-income families. He demurred, saying that people who make most of their money in wages pay taxes at a higher rate, while those who get most of their income from investments pay at lower rates.

"So it really depends on what is your profession, where's the source of your income, what's the specific circumstances you face, and the averages won't really capture that," Geithner said.

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WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama says he wants to make sure millionaires are taxed at higher rates than their secretaries. The data say they already are. "Warren Buffett's secretary shouldn'...
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama says he wants to make sure millionaires are taxed at higher rates than their secretaries. The data say they already are. "Warren Buffett's secretary shouldn'...
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05:17 PM on 11/16/2011
CEOs (etc) only pay 35% in federal tax on their base salaries after all their deductions (and only pay SS and Medicare taxes up to the first $106k), and then they only pay 15% in capital gains taxes on the bulk of their income in deferments, annuities, dividends, bonuses, and stock options, which are often bought at below market value and are redeemed a year later with only a 15% long-term capital tax liability. It is NOT taxed as regular income in the 35% upper income tax bracket. People with homes (or mansions) have a host of other deductions they can use as well, as do corporations for "the cost of doing business", which can include 3-martini lunches and country club fees (including expensive tax attorneys that can find every loophole). If you don't own a house, you can't even deduct your work boots. I earned $14k in unemployment benefits last year (as my sole income) and owed the IRS 10% in federal taxes. (And no, I could qualify for any "subsidy" either, not like Exxon Mobil got). So I'd like to know who's not paying federal incomes taxes and how they're doing it.
02:05 AM on 10/25/2011
It is stated that the 10 percent of households with the highest incomes pay more than half of all federal taxes. They pay more than 70 percent of federal income taxes. This may true but misleading.

Lets say that John R. Rich, Amy R. Richest, Mike A. Broke and I A. Average are the ones paying the taxes. Lets say that John and Amy earn $1,000,000,000 each, and Mike and I earn $35,000 each a year. Say, the tax bill for the four of us comes to $100,000 and John & Amy pay 70% which is $70,000 and Mike and I pay 30% which is $30,000. Hmmmm?

In other words, if you pool, me Bubba and the Wee R. Rich family together and figure out that the Wee R. Rich family earns more than all of us together, thats no big discovery, of course they do! They should pay more by virtue of the fact that they are the" households with the highest incomes" that they earn substantially more.

BTW @ uknowwho no matter how hard you work and how much you save the average American is not going to save a million dollars much less a billion. Typically those involved in hard,manual labor make much less than white collar professionals. Also Mr. Stephen O talks about them paying more on federal taxes which is different from INCOME tax. Maybe we should try a flat tax with a sunset of five years.
03:16 PM on 09/30/2011
Hey heres a tax for ya. TAX religion's. If GOD loves us I'm sure he wouln't mind especially since as far as I know he hasn't seen a dime go in his pocket. I swear to GOD I haven't missed church in 25 years, Wadda ya think.
12:19 PM on 10/13/2011
I think that if 10% is good enough for God, then it sure is good enough for the Federal Government.

Stop excessive Government spending!
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beachinstead
socialist libs other countries need you
12:37 PM on 09/26/2011
http://www/. snopes.com/politics/Obama/bo.asp

obama need not slam the GOP look what he is doing! check out the link!!!!!
12:20 PM on 10/13/2011
Libs don't care. They are gullible and follow the red herrings that obama tosses out like trained seals.
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torgman3
1 man's Founding Father is another's slaveowner
09:18 PM on 10/16/2011
Fixed your link: www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bo.asp

"The Obamas had their dog, Bo, flown on his own airplane to join them on vacation in Maine" -- You ARE aware that Snopes debunked the story you're so proud of and many others like them.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
election2012
An independent voice for the greater good.
11:13 PM on 09/23/2011
If you read the original Buffet article, the key is not how much, but at what percentage, and the many exemptions now available to higher income individuals.

"If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=2
02:59 PM on 09/23/2011
Pres. Obama never said every millionaire pays less taxes than their secretaries. That claim might successfully be refuted with supposed statistical averages. But nothing in this piece refutes Pres. Obama's actual claim that some millionaires and billionaires pay less taxes than their secretaries. In fact it admits "There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers."

So just exactly where are all these "Obama lied" comments coming from? Or are they simply more of the usual Republican refusal to let the facts get in the way of their opinions?
02:55 PM on 09/30/2011
you will never amount to anything just like your mother predicted
12:22 PM on 10/13/2011
President Barack Obama blurred the distinction in his recent speech on the economy, calling out things that he said "shouldn't happen."

Middle-class families shouldn’t pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires. That’s pretty straightforward. It’s hard to argue against that. Warren Buffett’s secretary shouldn’t pay a higher tax rate than Warren Buffett. There is no justification for it. It is wrong that in the United States of America, a teacher or a nurse or a construction worker who earns $50,000 should pay higher tax rates than somebody pulling in $50 million. Anybody who says we can’t change the tax code to correct that, anyone who has signed some pledge to protect every single tax loophole so long as they live, they should be called out. They should have to defend that unfairness -- explain why somebody who's making $50 million a year in the financial markets should be paying 15 percent on their taxes, when a teacher making $50,000 a year is paying a higher rate.

That prompted a torrent of e-mails from readers asking whether it is true that secretaries pay more in taxes than millionaires.

We understand their confusion. But for starters, Obama didn't say that secretaries pay higher taxes than millionaires, although he left that impression. He said that they shouldn't and he focused on tax rates, rather than taxes. Those are important distinctions for reasons we'll explain.
07:37 PM on 09/22/2011
It doesn't matter any more. This is all posturing and pandering. The elitists, both lib and con, have raped and stolen everything from the middle class. No jobs, high prices on everything, no investments, housing is dead, economies are in the toilet around the planet, and you all keep attacking each other over petty, meaningless BS while the real crooks sit back and laugh, waiting for the final flush. We are the "worthless eaters" and they have a plan to eliminate us all. Open your eyes and look around. We are lambs being blindly and willingly led to the slaughter.
Don't be sheeple - be a wolf and EAT THE RICH! Caveat Tyrannus!
07:13 PM on 09/22/2011
Such a load of b.s. Buffet is full of it, too.
06:53 PM on 09/22/2011
I'll never for get what my dad (a middle class civil engineer who struggled to raise 5 kids, one with muscular dystrophy - which adds a lot of expense and difficulty to a family) said to me when I graduated and from SUNY and was about to start my first job; "Son, you're a producer...you're screwed."

Boy do I see his wisdom now these 31 years later...
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boogie albert 55
I am proud to be called a Crazy
09:27 AM on 09/22/2011
This is getting to be old, run into the ground. It will not pass by either party. Buffet pays no income tax. Capital gains tax at 15%. Lot of difference between that and income tax. What is a Fair Share? If you live in NY and other area they are already paying 50% in taxes, state and federal. Should a person give 55 cents of every dollar earned to the government? Even Bill Clinton has stated that this Buffet Rule will not get us out of this mess. He is even saying we have to cut spending. The Worm has turned on obama.
03:10 PM on 09/30/2011
Buffett bought 1 B GE shares @ $20 3 years ago. Ge buying back shares for 1.3 B @ 15% 0n 300,000,000 that would be $45 million cap gain tax ....Warren said "Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744"
What ........? Warren is a lot better at making money than President O at running a country. Through income deferral he can use..............ah what's the use you are all doomed rep...dem..tea...ind..athiest..christian...because we ...I include myself can't function on their level including the baffler who should change his name to befuddled.
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11:13 PM on 09/21/2011
Today the Wall Street Journal has a very interesting article explaining that Municipal Tax Free Bonds under Obama's "Jobs Bill" will no longer be TAX FREE. "A Jobs Bill That Boggles the Mind" Harvey Golub (former chairman and CEO of American Express, chairman of Miller Buckfire and serves on the executive committee of the American Enterprise Institute )..a Democrat.

I just don't get it........it only hurts the Municipality because if their bonds are NOT tax free they will have to issue them at higher rates .... inaddition to that, it's retroactive..so investors that own tax free municipals lose $$ big time as the coupon adjusts to the taxable market = corporate rate...which computes to a loss in principle.

Why would he do this ? It makes no sense.......
07:46 PM on 09/21/2011
Obama needs to come clean with his soo called plan. Is he Talking about Income Tax only??, what Percentage Increase does he want??, does he want to Increase Capital gains Taxes or not??, if not why???.
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mothra666
sdrawkcab si oib-orcim yM
04:47 PM on 09/21/2011
This place should be called"The Xenophobic Post"
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freerangevoter
Live Free or Raise Hell
04:04 PM on 09/21/2011
Why are we talking about a PERCENTAGE. Why shouldn't we all pay the same AMOUNT?
If taking a percentage of one's effort is fair than why not mandate the following:
1) Short guys get 2 points for hitting the rim. 2) Fat guys get to take the prom queen on at least one date. 3) Smart people have to share part of their GPA with the less studious. The possibilities are limitless, but my point is this. Do we want what is FAIR or do we just want to tear down the hard working and thrifty folks to make ourselves feel better?
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mothra666
sdrawkcab si oib-orcim yM
05:33 PM on 09/21/2011
uh...putting things in captial letters is fine but it doesn't mean they make any sense.
09:11 PM on 09/21/2011
jeez, i hope you at least got a free bowl of soup with that logic
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Toby Huff
04:04 PM on 09/21/2011
This is just typical of Obama. He just wants to keep spending up. He has no interest in reducing the deficit. He just keeps on lieing to us. We need to fire him next term along with every single incumbant from the local level to the federal level. They have all put us in this spending fix by allowing all the special interest groups to lobby for more more more more more until we do not have any more. Lets add some more government jobs so we can pay even more? When does this vicious sick cycle going to stop. We need to revolt with our votes NOW!!!!
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mothra666
sdrawkcab si oib-orcim yM
04:10 PM on 09/21/2011
any original prattle?
07:45 PM on 09/21/2011
He is not a business man and has been. He fooled a lot of people
02:19 PM on 09/22/2011
That is exactly the problem.