Jehovah's Witness Magazine Under Fire For Claiming Defectors Are 'Mentally Diseased'

English police are investigating whether a Jehovah's Witness magazine violated the country's religious hatred laws.

The July edition of the monthly publication Watchtower warned readers not to follow "false teachers" who may be "mentally diseased," The Telegraph reported. Part of the passage at issue reads:

"Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are 'mentally diseased', and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings."

Watchtower is distributed around the world, but it was in the English town of Portsmouth that a group of ex-Witnesses made an official complaint.

Many Jehovah's Witnesses are not comfortable with the religion's notoriously harsh treatment of members who disagree with its doctrine and may choose to leave the church, reports The Independent One former member told the newspaper that "Many like me remain associated with the Witnesses out of fear of being uncovered as an 'apostate' and ousted, not just from the organization, but from their own friends and families. I find I am now branded as 'mentally diseased'--giving any who discovers my true beliefs free license to treat me with disdain."

According to PBS, Jehovah's Witnesses shun "as many as 30,000 members each year who refuse to live by the religion's moral tenets," as of 2007. Members who leave the group are subject to similar treatment.

Rick Fenton, a church spokesman, backed up the organization's practices to The Telegraph: "Any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is free to express their feelings and to ask questions," he said. "If a person changes their mind about Bible-based teachings they once held dear, we recognize their right to leave."

Comments

[CarmanC]

04:17 AM on 11/28/2011

The people that adopted the name Jwhovah's Witnesses were called Independant Bible Students. Each group was autonomous but followed the teachings of Charles Russell fanatically.

Russell taught that 'the time of the end" or the destruction of worldwide of satan led governmentand religions could be determined from measurements of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

This is documented in books that were printed by the WatchTower Bible and Tract Society 101 years ago. Direct reference,"Thy Kingdom Come" (Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3).

The Bible Students incontrovertably believed every word of Russell a hundred years ago and so do the renamed followers (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe every word of the WatchTower's Governing Body today - fanatically.

[CarmanC]

06:57 AM on 11/25/2011

The statement that the people that once associated with the WatchTower are mentally diseased is one of many slivers of WatchTower dogma.

The WatchTower teaches many such items that have a similar tone. The WatchTower knows that independant research and study will bring a different conclusion. The below quote shows this and how aware the WatchTower is of its methods.
Quote from the 'Watchtower', Dec. 1, 1990, p. 19.

"Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus' ransom, the difference between God's organization and Satan's, nor why God has permitted wickedness,"

[CarmanC]

01:43 AM on 11/24/2011

A site with xJW stories

http://www.xjw.com/

[mislis]

05:46 PM on 11/22/2011

I just checked in on a whim to see how the discussion was going, I didn't really expect to find new comments. I am glad to see that for the most part things have been civil. I wish you all well.

[CarmanC]

09:43 PM on 11/22/2011

Hi Mislis

You may note if you read over the comment the 'brother' that followed you discuing the material started name calling and labeling.
One of the difficulties JWs face is that they have been taught to think of anyone - anyone - that is not part of the WT organization as being under the influence of Satan.
The most common labeling is "worldly".
You know this to be true.

This is labeling. Count up how many times you hear these words in a one week period?

Worldly and weak.


Did you now that:
"... "It is through his organization that God provides this light that the proverb says is the teaching or law of the mother. If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother,".... (Watchtower, 05, 01, 57, p. 274)"

[CarmanC]

01:40 AM on 11/22/2011

The WatchTYower uses a bible that is a disengenious translation of poor manuscripts.

[CarmanC]

07:30 PM on 11/19/2011

The WatchTower: "former member are mentally diseased". 1Timothy 6:4 applied to people that have left the WatchTower. WatchTower also teaches Jesus an angel became human and returned to being an angel.

Refutation -
Hebrews 1:
---
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
---
10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
---
13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

[CarmanC]

10:13 PM on 11/19/2011

The scribes and pharisees were at odds to explain the events that are recorded in the bible when Jesus was crucified.
That Jesus was an angel was one of the first attacks on the deity and divinity of Jesus. The entire first chapter of Hebrews was refutation to those taught aspects. The first chapter of Hebrews continues to refute the current form of the same teaching.

[CarmanC]

07:26 AM on 11/16/2011

Slander - hate mongering - social control using cult tactics

Quote -
"Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning.
Well, apostates are 'mentally diseased', and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings."

Specific Quote -
Well, apostates are 'mentally diseased', and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings."

WatchTower Argot-
apostate - a person that leaves the organizati­­on

The Koine Greek text
The WatchTower cannot justify the Scripture they are using to slander former members of the organizati­­on using any bible. In this case using 1 Timothy 6:4 to slander former JWs that have gone on to teach Christiani­­ty. The verse is an extremism interpreti­­ve variation of linguistic associatio­­n. Both the oldest bible in common use, the KJV, and the newest version, the WEB, use comparable words respective­­ly "doting" in the KJV and "obsessed" in the WEB.

[ssully68]

08:50 PM on 11/15/2011

" or any other religion" Thank you. Your quote says it all. I knew it. Compelling reason not to listen to these people. Jesus own words testify that there would be true religion in the time of the end. Matt 7:15-20 “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire.Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those men. Look at what the JW's have produced. They are well known for being honest, caring, hard working individuals. They are the only ones doing the works, out of love for God and neighbor, that Jesus commanded them to do. These people are not "producing" anything. Their only goal is to destroy others faith. That is why they cannot name ANYONE else. They are stuck and can only change the subject. They both admit "no religion" That is not the truth, the way, and the life, that Jesus taught. Not even close! Peace! Sully.

[kittenfatale]

01:25 AM on 11/16/2011

Aw, Sully, let it go. It's really silly to believe there's one group out there that has the "truth." You keep using the Bible to condemn others. You seem to have missed the spirit of the thing. There's a scripture that says to get the rafter out of your eye before you search for the straw in your brother's eye. In other words, stop judging. Wish people well. If you're really and truly right, you can relax.

So for the second time, I'm wishing YOU well and signing off.

[AnneMarieDeSoto]

02:41 PM on 11/17/2011

I think that I will just "zero in" on just one small part of the Watchtower's outlandish claim toward former members: that "...they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings."

"Infect"?? Do you call trying to share with misled JWs the real truth of God's Word "trying to 'infect' them? And if that one "caught" this "infection," would this be a bad thing??

And what "disloyal teachings" is the Watchtower referring to?? Could it be those pesky Biblical verses that so clearly show the Watchtower to be teaching "truth" that is not supported by God's Word?? Verses that show the Watchtower is clearly teaching "Doctrines of Men"??

As God's Word does NOT support the "word" of the Watchtower, is THIS what they mean? that Biblical teachings are showing themselves to be "disloyal" to the teachings of the Watchtower??

If one truly cares about TRUTH, and about what God's Word actually does say, then this deserves a closer look...

[Mrs Sixx]

07:21 AM on 11/16/2011

Sully, according to the Pew pole I cited previously, there are only two religions that claim they are they only way -- that they are the "true religion" -- they are JW's and the Mormons. The Mormons also have missionary trips that their youths go on at a certain age. Their faith is just as strong as yours that they are right. They also have a central body that sets out the rules for the rest of the faith -- and are believed to be God's representatives on earth. Sound familiar?

Sully, my goal has never been to destroy your faith in God -- my goal has been to try to show you that your faith in an organization which claims to be speaking for God is misplaced. I wish you no ill will -- unlike what you and other JW's wish for me and others like me. I have also been trying to defend myself -- as I am obviously not 'mentally diseased'. And any obsession you think I, Carmen or Kitten may have is only matched by your own. You've been obsessed with beating us down to prove you are right. Ask yourself: Is this the way Jesus would have treated the people he sought to teach? Or is your pride more important than showing love and compassion to fellow human beings?

Take care, Sully. You've got a long road ahead of you. I hope you find peace along the way.

Mrs. Sixx

[CarmanC]

04:00 PM on 11/16/2011

If Sixx or Kitten were so inclined they too could invest the time to refute the WT doctrine using verses and Christian teachings but they are atheists and choose to live life and move on when a person stubbornly holds onto their cognitive dissonance.
Look - people that grew up under the WT know alot more about it than a late-comer like yourself. I would say they have - if I may - from what they have stated - saw the great falling away of 1975-1984. They are fully aware of WatchTower doctrines saw the twisting and deception as the WatchTower altered thier lies and blamed their followers as misunderstanding.

Matter of fact Sixx - an atheist, refuted the WatchTower teaching on the Trinity. Showing how the WatchTower misrepresents trinity as modalism and tritheism.
The WT actually teaches a variation on dynamic monarchianism.

Kitten has asked you for references and ssully68 you refused. You have not defended at all indeed your defense has failed in every case.
There are many many cases of child molestation and rape in the WatchTower organization. It is far higher than any other faith. These are covered up and if they go to court because of evidence the WatchTower pays them off with gag orders. I do not blame the victims - get the WT where it hurts - the wallet.
Your reply to Don had not teeth and was error. Your reply to Sixx was tangental and not in line with the points made.

[kittenfatale]

03:48 PM on 11/15/2011

Sully asks who has the truth. If your answer does not conform to his answer ("Jehovah's Witnesses"), you are -- according to him -- a "liar."

If you tell him what you believe (for example, I mentioned that I'm an atheist), he calls you a liar and demands to know what you "really believe."

It's hard to have a conversation with a person like this. Are these not the tactics of a bully?

[CarmanC]

11:45 PM on 11/15/2011

The WatchTower had a fiasco going in Malawi a few years back. JWs were being killed , raped, and tortured because they were not allowed by the WatchTower to by a 5 cent tax/party stamp.

Everyone was required by law to by the papers.

Meanwhile the WatchTower allowed JWs in Mexico to bribe their way out of mandatory civil service.

The Mexican bribery was illegal but encouraged. Not buying a party/tax stamp was illegal but that is what the WatchTower wanted.

And what is the difference between complying with the law and not? ssully was not around for the Malawi or mexico fiascos and all the deception and lies.
_______

The WatchTower brings persecution on their followers by what they print and teach. In Russia the JWs are taught to take a strong stand and go into areas that are Greek Orthodox to a person. The people do not want them and ask them to leave town they do not and get "tarred and feathered". This also happens in areas the are purely Russian Orthodox and JWs die.

The Russians correctly see the WatchTower as an giant American publishing corporation That promotes civil disobedience and claims persecution under the guise of religion.

[CarmanC]

11:50 PM on 11/15/2011

ssully has no idea how far the WatchTower will go to make money or display its power over people.
Countries with disclosure laws show that the high ranking WT corporation executives make hundreds of thousands of dollars and the lawyers representing the WatchTower just as much. It is surmissed that lawyers are running parts of the WT because it got into so much trouble the Governing Body had no choice but let those 'worldly men" dig it out - now they have parts of it. Hence a major sell off and the WatchTower is selling of billions of dollars of Brooklyn properities and moving to Warwick NY.
ssully has no idea of the corruption.

The WatchTower has continued to reduce convention from one week to 3day and now three day to onday conventions
He has no idea of the past and how it was and how or why things were changed.

the mid-week bible studies were eliminated and added to the Theocratic ministry school because the smaller groups began to study more and began to see the errors
Even when that delightful Don came in and explained it ssully could not see it.

[CarmanC]

12:59 AM on 11/15/2011

No one has berated you ssully68 though you have stated that people formerly associated deserve to be called 'mentally diseased because they left the WatchTower organization.

You should know that there are many examples that the WatchTower brought animosity on it's followers by what they have printed and what they have told them to do.

Saying that everyone that does not follow the WatchTower is led by satan and the demons is insulting in the least.

[kittenfatale]

03:55 PM on 11/15/2011

That's the central point of the article and of this entire comment thread: Jehovah's Witnesses are instructed to view those who leave their religion as mentally ill. Jehovah's Witnesses have come on this comment thread to defend this instruction, and in my view they have made a poor case. In my view (I'm just going to go ahead and say it), they've come off like real nutjobs. Ironic.

[kittenfatale]

04:01 PM on 11/15/2011

Carman, you're a born-again Christian, I believe. And I'm an atheist. But I think we've proven something here. I respect you and your excellent scholarship. And you've been respectful and kind to me. That's a beautiful thing. It IS possible to have a civil conversation and even a friendship with someone who believes differently. Blessings to you.

[CarmanC]

12:13 AM on 11/16/2011

well discerned Kitten
A lot of the bible does come off as just writing of some nomadic tribes that became slaves and then escaped and conquered a homeland. And through this barbaric and base. The God of the people harsh and severe.

This I understand and to a certain extent agree. This does not make the history any less true if it is understood by pondering what is really said and not by interpretation of most 'Christian' scholars that take what the jewish teachers state as truth.

It is said the truth is stranger than fiction. It is much easier to believe the slick lies of the WT or the rabbis of today which are 99.9+% Kabbalah.

[ssully68]

08:37 PM on 11/14/2011

They will not tell you who has the truth because they know who has the truth. They keep avoiding the question, very easy, very straight forward. After being berated for a month, I am now the name caller? It is enough. A slave of the Lord does not need to fight. Vengence is mine, I will repay says Jehovah. They want to be equal until they get cornered in the lies. Just tell us who has the truth and we could go from there. I say the JW's have the truth and have reasoned from the scriptures to defend my faith. They hate the scriptures and try to change the words. No more of my time can you have. Tell us who it is or go away.

[CarmanC]

08:50 PM on 11/14/2011

Jesus is the Truth, the Way and the Life.

Not the WatchTower organization or any other religion.
_______

Let us start in Revelation chapter 7 verse 9?
Can you post these up?

[CarmanC]

09:08 PM on 11/14/2011

You have not been a JW for long but you go along slandering former JWs as 'mentally diseased'.
But your money goes to some guys that run the WatchTower corporations.
I have not berated you slyssully86 - I asked if you were steve and you refused to answer do you want me to call you Don or Frederick?
Alot of that money goes to silence dirty secrets of the WatchTower

http://www.silentlambs.org/
http://jehovahswitnessrevealed.com/category/jehovahs-witnesses-pedophiles
http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw100.html

[CarmanC]

06:51 PM on 11/14/2011

Sully86 wull you stop name calling?

your last post stated:
You are a liar and a deceptive person.
you have no truth.

Is that how to talk to me or sixx or kitten
Is that how you talk in front of elders?

Are you sure you can talk to the ladies here or is your wife far more qualified?

The WatchTower bible is a slanted and inaccurate bible. It is inconsistant in translation and based on Westcott and Hort manuscripts.
Have you even looked up Westcott and Hort?

When you are done raging - Let us reason from Revelation 7:9.
This you can start by pasting the scripture.

[ssully68]

08:31 PM on 11/14/2011

Oh I thought it was Slysul? Nice try. Answer the question or go away. You ARE a deceptive person. You have been caught time and time again in lies. Now you want to hide behind "Im a lady"?You are on equal ground with me, just like you want it. I am not raging, you cannot type tone of voice. I have a very calm demenor and way about me that you do not know anything about. My point is made. You ignored the question, as I said you would. Jesus did not hold back from calling the deceptive people in his day what they were. Tell us who has the truth or go away. Last question I have for you. My point is made.

[CarmanC]

09:55 PM on 11/14/2011

so you are admitting your wife is far more knowledgeable and better at witnessing?

[CarmanC]

03:58 PM on 11/14/2011

To get it you will have to answer a couple of simple questions. Let us start in Revelation chapter 7 verse 9?

Can you post these up?

[ssully68]

02:25 PM on 11/14/2011

Okay, lets cut through the chase. All you have been doing is desperatly ragging on the WT for over a month because you do not qualify to be one. Just tell us who has the truth. Which religion is the right one? Please stop keeping it a secret and let people know. Go ahead. No need to be a coward about it. If the JW's do not have the truth and are not following the Bible, then tell us who is, please. The Bible tells us that in the last days true knowledge will become abundant. If you cannot answer that question with the name of the true religion then YOU are a liar and have been exposed for the last time. Eph. 4:4-6 " One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called;one Lord, one FAITH, one baptism; one God and Father of all persons, who is over all and through all and in all." Who are they? Tell everyone! It can't be a secret. Ezakiel 3:18 "When I say to someone wicked, ‘You will positively die,’ and you do not actually warn him and speak in order to warn the wicked one from his wicked way to preserve him alive, he being wicked, in his error he will die, but his blood I shall ask back from your own hand." Your under obligation here! Name them.

[CarmanC]

03:49 PM on 11/14/2011

Watchtower President Charles Taze Russell said "A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God... Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter what it contradicts." (Zion's Watchtower. July 1879, pp 8, 9)

What ""truth"" are you believing?

[ssully68]

05:10 PM on 11/14/2011

Just as we thought. Name them! You can't! You are a liar and a deceptive person. You try to put on a show for people of how smart you think you are, yet, as was pointed out all along, you have no truth. Name whoever you want, ANYONE? You won't because your are caught in your own web. You cannot and will not name the organization that has the truth because you know who it is. Here it is again for you in simple lame terms. Who is it that is using the Bible that is preaching about God's Kingdom in the time of the end as Jesus said they would and commanded them to do? WHO? Who has "Bible" truth? Forget the WT. You are so smart, name them! Your lack of a real reply is admission enough for me and anyone else who reads this post that you are a coward and a fraud. Now, stop playing with words and tell us. I'm calling your bluff, put your money where your mouth is. Tell us! Name the religion that has the truth according to Jesus teachings.

[CarmanC]

07:36 PM on 11/14/2011

Quote -
"Jehovah’s Witnesses think that they have found the true religion. If they did not think so, they would CHANGE (humilty) their beliefs."
Reply -
In light of what you have been shown here - is it not time to examine your religion?
It has been shown that the WatchTower bible translates Koine Greek words inaccurately. The NW does not accurately represent the original Greek but uses language in such a manner that distorts the meaning.
By using convincing writing in their magazines, books, and tracts the WatchTower has used cherry picked verses that grossly misrepresent the Koine Greek text to back up doctrinal mistakes. Perversions in translation lead the followers of the WatchTowerto believe doctrines not in harmony with the WORD of God.
For example the word other is added four times in three verses. see Colossians 1:15-17 NWT vs any bible
http://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html

[CarmanC]

01:14 PM on 11/14/2011

The Earth is inhabited and will be for a long long time to come.

To get it you will have to answer a couple of simple questions. Let us start in Revelation chapter 7 verse 9?

Can you post these up?