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Ohio Collective Bargaining Measure Overshadows Health Care Vote

Ohio Referendums

First Posted: 10/14/11 02:45 PM ET Updated: 12/14/11 05:12 AM ET

While Ohio’s upcoming referendum on the state’s controversial collective bargaining law has become the marquee issue on November’s statewide ballot, two other state issues could impact voter turnout in what has been considered a low-key year.

In addition to the referendum to repeal the new collective bargaining law -- known as Issue 2 -- voters are being asked to approve a law raising the maximum age for judicial candidate appointment and an amendment to the state’s constitution that bans laws requiring residents to buy health insurance. While not connected to Issue 2, which would repeal Senate Bill 5, one Ohio political observer believes the health care vote could impact the collective bargaining vote known as Issue 3.

"There were estimates in the summer that this would increase turnout by five percent," said John Green, director of the Bliss Institute of Applied Politics at the University of Akron, of the health care vote.

Ohio has no statewide offices on the ballot in 2011, with only municipal offices being contested. Beyond those, the ballot is dominated by municipal and county referendums, including those seeking to raise school tax levies, amend local charters and grant liquor licenses to specific restaurants.

At the same time, Green noted that there is no definitive connection between the two issues and both were planned separately. He did note that the two issues cross over in terms of voters, with supporters of the collective bargaining law likely the same as for the health care amendment.

"These issues could be linked at the ballot box," Green said.

S.B. 5 was passed by the state legislature and Gov. John Kasich (R) earlier this year and calls for an overhaul of the state’s collective bargaining laws for public employees, including the elimination of the right to bargain over benefits. Using a state constitutional amendment allowing for referendum to overturn state laws, labor groups sucessfully petitioned over the summer to place Issue 2 on the ballot.

While some have speculated that Issue 3 -- which was certified for the statewide ballot after Issue 2 -- was written by conservatives in order to drive up voter turnout to defend the collective bargaining law, proponents of Issue 3 and Green say that is not the case. Maurice Thompson, the executive director of the 1851 Center for Constitutional Law, said the planning started in 2010.

Proponents of Issue 3 first presented the Ohio secretary of state’s office with preliminary plans for the amendment in the spring of 2010, and then fought a battle in the state courts after the state’s ballot board rejected proposed language for the amendment. The state Supreme Court ruled in September 2010 that the proposed language could be used. The final signatures for the amendment were completed this July.

"It is unfortunate that this is being argued to help Issue 2," Thompson said to The Huffington Post.

While observers expected Issue 3 to be the top issue in this year’s statewide election, Green noted that the heavy campaigning on both sides of Issue 2 and the case pending before the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn the federal individual mandate law have placed it behind the collective bargaining campaign. There have been no statewide commercials on Issue 3 according to Green, while Issue 2 been the subject of multiple commercials from pro-labor groups against the law and a series of commercials from groups in favor. Green noted that the judicial age referendum -- Issue 1 -- has gained little notice statewide.

Melissa Fazekas, a spokeswoman for We Are Ohio, the group leading the charge to overturn the collective bargaining law, said they have not been focused on Issue 3, and Brian Rothenberg, the executive director of Progress Ohio, part of the anti-Issue 3 coalition, said his group has been focused on health care. He said that while there has been some shared campaign literature, there have been no discussions on sharing get out the vote efforts. Thompson said the pro-Issue 3 group has been focused on health care and other than both issues receiving support from the state Republican Party there has been no connection. Thompson also noted the state GOP donated less to Issue 3 than Issue 2.

Green said the collective bargaining law becoming the top issue does not surprise him given the scope of S.B. 5 compared to the proposed amendment.

"Issue 2 was always more controversial," he said. "Public unions and their allies were very disturbed by S.B. 5. The labor law covers a lot of different issues, while Issue 3 covers just one mandate."


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While Ohio’s upcoming referendum on the state’s controversial collective bargaining law has become the marquee issue on November’s statewide ballot, two other state issues could impact voter tur...
While Ohio’s upcoming referendum on the state’s controversial collective bargaining law has become the marquee issue on November’s statewide ballot, two other state issues could impact voter tur...
 
 
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KobraKai7474
He Ain't Heavy, He's My Governor
03:11 PM on 10/15/2011
Whether it was intended as a direct attack at Issue 2 or not, let's be clear that Issue 3 is purely a exercise intended to bring out the conservative vote. Just as important, though, is the fact that no matter what Ohioans vote on Issue 3, it will have exactly no meaning whatsoever. Maybe conservatives were sick that day in high school history but, between 1861 and 1865, the United States fought a civil war. The reason Abraham Lincoln called up the troops in 1861, and started the war in the first place was because the South claimed the right to usurp Federal law (and, in this case, secede from the Union). The Union victory ensured that no state... not the states of the old Confederacy, nor Ohio, has the right to usurp Federal Laws EVER. The 10th amendment to the constitution is explicit on this point: Any areas of law NOT covered by federal law are the purview of the states. Any areas of law that ARE covered by the federal law cannot be usurped by the states. Ohioans might as well be voting to turn the sky green in that a yes vote will have the exact same real effect as a no vote. However, as stated above, it WILL bring the conservatives out of the woodwork to vote yes on Issue 2 while voting for Issue 3.
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soisay
Angry? Scared? Thank a Republican.
11:05 PM on 10/15/2011
Where was the ballot initiative to make federal abrtion payments illegal, or the one man one woman marriage? Those Bring TPls out of the woodwork like cockroaches too.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Retrofuturistic
see things as they really are
12:16 PM on 10/15/2011
Ohio Republicans put same sex marriage on the ballot to draw out rural fundamentalists to vote for W. Bush, so I can see how they would put Issue 3 on for the same purpose, to draw out people who would be likely to oppose collective bargaining and unions, which evangelicals have been taught and conditioned to see as "evil".
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KobraKai7474
He Ain't Heavy, He's My Governor
02:59 PM on 10/15/2011
I bet they wish they could trot that same sex marriage law out again this time., but, if they try hard enough, I am sure that they can find something almost as divisive.
OHteach
She who laughs, lasts
11:50 AM on 10/15/2011
Fellow Ohioans do not believe our former Lehmann Brothers Governor. A company that probably liberated you from part of your savings. Collective bargaining and the ability to negotiate for staffing levels and safety equipment strengthens our communities with vital services that we need and expect in a crisis. SB5 puts our communities at risk by putting your safety behind the bottom line of the almighty dollar. Vote "NO" on Issue #2.
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ClarkOHrepub
BO & Co have Gotta Go!
09:24 AM on 10/17/2011
SB5 does NOT eliminate collective bargaining. It does trim some of the fat though....which is a good thing.
OHteach
She who laughs, lasts
10:10 AM on 10/17/2011
Trimming the fat would be for Kasich and his allies, who exempted themselves from the provisions in SB5 that they are demanding of all other public workers, to take the same cuts. Mr. Kasich makes $10,000 dollars more than Governor Strickland and will get an automatic 3% step increase while he has eliminated them for public employees in favor of merit pay. If he's so fond of merit pay why doesn't he accept the same for himself when he actually has something to show for it. Our general assembly members earn $60,854 dollars for P/T work and get unlimited sick leave for any reason while they are reducing sick leave for other public workers who on average make 40,000 for F/T work. Kasich could have gotten reform had he not been so heavy handed and arrogant, instead he angered so many people that what he has is a mess in Ohio. BTW, when you eliminate almost everything you can bargain for( including safety equipment for police and firefighters), you have effectively eliminated Collective Bargaining. SB5 has a lot buried in it beyond the talking points.
OHteach
She who laughs, lasts
12:26 PM on 10/17/2011
When you eliminate almost everything for which you can bargain, including safety equipment for firefighters and police officers, you have effectively eliminated Collective Bargaining. When the employer automatically gets their last offer in an impasse situation, you have eliminated Collective Bargaining. If you want to trim the fat, start with the governor and the assembly who have excluded themselves from the provisions in SB5.
11:15 AM on 10/15/2011
To Governor Kasich:

Issue # 2 is not about putting another foot on the necks of working men and women. Issue # 2 is not about republicans and democrats. Issue # 2 is about about the loss of 600,000 manufacturing jobs and the tax revenues those jobs used to create. We no longer have enough tax revenue to pay the pension and health care costs of all our state workers.Issue # 2 is about the math and we need some help. Ohio is not alone. DEMOCRAT ! That's right, democrat governors and mayors across the country are also doing the math... and, like us, they are asking their government workers to pitch in. A yes vote for Issue # 2 simply allows us to do that. We'll talk some more later.

sy
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Retrofuturistic
see things as they really are
12:22 PM on 10/15/2011
You are misled. Tax revenues do not pay the pension and health care costs of state workers. State workers pay for their own pensions and health care costs. It comes out of their SALARY. Retirement costs are deducted from the worker's salary, and are invested. The profit from the investments is where the retirement payments come from.

Corporations and corporate-owned media that want you to be against middle class workers are making you think that your tax money is paying for someone else's retirement. Please read more so that you cannot be misled so easily.
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KobraKai7474
He Ain't Heavy, He's My Governor
02:51 PM on 10/15/2011
The question is NOT whether government workers are willing to pitch in. They are and they have. The question is whether you need to also take their collective bargaining rights away from them.
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ClarkOHrepub
BO & Co have Gotta Go!
09:25 AM on 10/17/2011
SB5 does NOT eliminate collective bargaining!
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ohiotechie
Better dead than red...
10:52 AM on 10/15/2011
Instead of working to strip public workers of their benefits and rights (that they've worked and fought hard for) why isn't the TP spending their energies on making sure ALL of us have the same level of health and pension benefits they seem so jealous of?

Am I the only one who thinks this makes the TP look twisted and bitter?
OHteach
She who laughs, lasts
11:16 AM on 10/15/2011
Ohiotechie, I don't get it either. We should be spending our energies trying to raise the standard of living for everyone. That's the way it used to be.
OHteach
She who laughs, lasts
11:29 AM on 10/15/2011
To expand on the TP mindset: You've probably all heard this one. "A public union employee, a tea party guy, and a bank CEO are sitting at a table with a plate of a dozen cookies. The CEO takes 11 of the cookies, turns to the tea partier and says,"watch out for that union guy, he wants your cookie."
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ohiotechie
Better dead than red...
10:53 PM on 10/15/2011
That sounds about right....
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proudtohaveserved
10:23 AM on 10/15/2011
sorry WI and FL. i forgot to include OHIO and possibly INDIANA in my comments about you. I promise it won't happen again.
08:11 AM on 10/15/2011
As a taxpayer in Ohio here is how I will vote and why- Issue 1- NO NO and Hell NO-it is way past time to break up their good old boys club- Issue 2- YES because it does not affect their wages only health care and pensions and even union employees need to contribute to their OWN- that should not be my responsibility to make sure you retire in style with all benefits paid- Issue 3-YES because the federal government one size fits all healthcare is ignorant when all people are different and require different healthcare and I feel the federal government should stay out- we already have too many chiefs and not enough indians (we don't need one more boss in the chain) What I would really like to see addressed is the WAY school taxes are paid- in 1986 the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that property taxes cannot be used to fund schools and NOTHING has been done to correct this since- that's a lot of years fellow Ohioans to allow this to be swept under the bus. I would also like to see something that does not allow double-dipping. Too many people who have retired and enjoying their pensions are still working full time drawing ANOTHER paycheck while there are so many out of work- it is time to give others an opportunity at decent employment.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
proudtohaveserved
10:27 AM on 10/15/2011
MK see my comment above about WI and FL. OHIO IS JUST LIKE WI AND FL. YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET. YOU SOUND LIKE A TEA BAGGER TO ME
08:11 AM on 10/16/2011
that's right and considering I have to pay for these elected officials past errors in over promising the sun, moon and stars to union workers. I am not one of those that think the police can protect me. I live in a rural area and it will be over before they get here. Thank God I am smart enough to educate my children beyond what they are taught in public school
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neuronbob
If you don't vote, you are part of the problem.
12:54 AM on 10/15/2011
Here's hoping my fellow Ohioans see through the Republican attempts to confuse the electorate about Issues 2 and 3.

VOTE NO and NO on these. Workers deserve the right to bargain for their needs, and health care reform only works if everyone, including the healthy, pays into the system.
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kathy smelser
06:41 AM on 10/15/2011
a no vote will put our GOV. under the bus
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proudtohaveserved
10:30 AM on 10/15/2011
KATHY may i suggest what i suggested to WI, FL and now OHIO. you should get informed and get yourself educated before you go to the pols. you got what you deserve
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neuronbob
If you don't vote, you are part of the problem.
05:05 PM on 10/15/2011
You know it! It's too bad we can't do the recall thing here in Ohio, but the statewide referendum almost makes up for it.
OHteach
She who laughs, lasts
11:32 AM on 10/15/2011
Got it Neuronbob.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wwoody
Retired fishing for the truth.
11:45 PM on 10/14/2011
Just say NO.
10:54 PM on 10/14/2011
The 3 issues in Ohio are fairly easy folks:

NO, NO, NO......

Issue #1: VOTE NO - a yes vote raises judges retirement age - New blood is good. Could allow some to serve into their 80s. Aren’t some of our judges old enough? VOTE NO ON ISSUE #1

Issue #2- VOTE NO - no vote would be a vote to repeal the law restricting collective bargaining. A yes vote is a slap in the face of policemen, firemen, teachers and all middle class workers. VOTE NO ON ISSUE #2

Issue #3 - VOTE NO - an attempt to amend the state constitution to say that no law can compel anyone to buy health insurance. A direct attempt to abolish the Affordable Care Act. Since federal law trumps state law this a feeble attempt to get out the vote by proponents of issue 2 and will wind up costing Ohioans. VOTE NO ON ISSUE #3

STOP THE INSANITY.....VOTE NO, NO, NO
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kathy smelser
06:46 AM on 10/15/2011
it is time that the voters STAND UP and stop this . the people of Ohio have been lied to over and over again
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proudtohaveserved
10:34 AM on 10/15/2011
KATHY yeah, and you people still vote republican. I say you got what you deserve. next time maybe, investigate, get informed, get educated and you won't have this problem, right?
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ohiotechie
Better dead than red...
10:46 AM on 10/15/2011
I'm with you... the whole state battle led by TP's against HCR has always struck me as hollow and would end up simply becoming a multimillion dollar battle that would probably lose anyway since as you point out federal law trumps state law. Seems like the TP is simply spoiling for a fight and are just fine with spending millions of dollars the state doesn't have to fight a battle they are likely going to lose.

How many teachers, police or fire fighters' salaries could be paid with that money instead? How many of our crumbling roads and bridges could we fix with those millions instead of waging a symbolic legal battle destined to fail?
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jesocr
10:04 PM on 10/14/2011
Universal health care for all.
09:59 PM on 10/14/2011
Health care should be affordable, it isn't. It is an over priced bloated rich only enterprise that is out of control. There needs to be a way to start reigning it in, not letting it get more out of control. It is part of the problem with the economy.
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10:25 PM on 10/14/2011
The private sector has too many unregulated swindlers and middlemen parasites.

There is always someone that wants what is yours for nothing..........the healthcare system is full of them.............administrative overruns, unnecessary tests and lab-work etc., but mostly private sector abuse in the form of overcharging the government and bleeding the system.

For profit healthcare is a sham!
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proudtohaveserved
10:38 AM on 10/15/2011
HMMMMM my daughter pays $200. per week for her and her husband, has deductibles and co- pay, pre existing conditions, etc, etc. in europe the monthly pay is about $80 per month, no pre existing, no co-pay and no deductible. one thing thou, they have what it is called PREVENTIVE MEDICINE. AND IS UNIVERSAL.
zSpin2001
All your base are belong to us.
09:35 PM on 10/14/2011
Where do people dream up these kind of amendments and consider them a good idea for their constituents?
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kathy smelser
06:48 AM on 10/15/2011
the class is called REPUBLICAN OBSTRUCTIONISM 101
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Brianwer
Left is right
09:33 PM on 10/14/2011
Government employes get paid more because the private sector has not kept up with inflation. In 1970 the average hourly wage was 9 dollars per hour. Today that would be around 24 dollars per hour, it is actually around 18 dollars per hour. Government employes are able to collectively bargain to keep up with inflation unlike many in the private sector.
alunsulen
Digging the liberal hatred!
10:15 PM on 10/14/2011
Soon, they won't be able to. Taxpayers will tell the Ohio public unions where to shove it :P
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10:26 PM on 10/14/2011
Most taxpayers support workers.....dream on.
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pmoschetta
Where are the Jobs, Speaker Boehner?
10:26 AM on 10/15/2011
The minions that don't support unions, private or public are pawns to their party and nothing else. If the republicans could get their way, the middle class worker whether hourly or salary would be working for 2-4 dollars an hour with no benefits at all.
And unless you're part of the 1% alunsulen, this will effect you too
gibraltar
Put in D to go forward to go backwards put it in R
09:32 PM on 10/14/2011
I'm just waiting for the folks in Ohio to ask for phone support to get out the vote in their state They can't recall Kasich but they can cancel his blatant attempt to decimate the middle class. As we say in Michigan middle class is better than no class!
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kathy smelser
06:50 AM on 10/15/2011
things are not much better in your state
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proudtohaveserved
10:42 AM on 10/15/2011
GIB don't brag, please, we also have one of those here in MI(SNYDER). I am surprised he hasn't gone after the unions yet. I thought that would be the first thing he"d do