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Michigan Cyber Schools Receive Senate Approval

Online Learning

First Posted: 10/28/11 03:29 PM ET Updated: 10/28/11 04:58 PM ET

Michigan might be getting more cyber schools.

Under legislation narrowly approved 20-18 by the Republican-led state Senate, Michigan's current cap of two cyber charter schools with approximately 1,400 students would be lifted. Six Republicans joined Democrats in opposition of the bill.

Republican state Sen. Phil Pavlov, also chair of the Senate Education Committee, told the Associated Press that the move is to encourage advancement toward technology in society and education, and to give families more say in their children's education.

"We open it up, we let parents and students decide," Pavlov told AP.

The senator also told the Kalamazoo Gazette earlier this week that the move would push the state's education system forward, as it's currently "behind the curve."

The bill would also allow the cyber programs to receive the same per-student public funding as traditional public schools. It was one of a package of nine bills that largely support the expansion of Michigan's charter schools. The Senate passed six of the nine pieces Thursday, giving parents more options for their children's education and expanding opportunities for private school students to take public school, for public schools to offer programs in private schools and for public and private high school students to take courses at community colleges.

But a study released last week by the National Education Policy Center found "serious flaws with full-time virtual schools." The study's co-author Gene Glass said in a statement that "we have to make sure that cyber schools don't become just a cheap way of providing second-rate service to disadvantaged students."

The study notes that in cyber schooling, there's little financial and academic accountability, as well as little research on their effectiveness. And with few rules, not much supervision, large enrollment and struggling students, "an unacceptably large number… won't make it through to the end," Glass told the Kalamazoo Gazette.

The bills have seen widespread support and criticism. Those who oppose the proposals have said that there isn't enough information to substantiate arguments that the plans would improve the state's education system, and would only diffuse focus from really honing in on fundamental problems in the system.

"We're supportive of expanding choice options for parents but strongly believe there's a good way to do that," Dan Varner, executive director of activist coalition Excellent Schools Detroit told the Detroit Free Press. "More bad choices don't help anyone."

This move in the Michigan senate comes amid a national movement toward online learning. Last month, Indiana Schools Superintendent Tony Bennett proposed a plan to require the state's high schoolers to take at least one online course before graduating.

If Bennett's proposal is accepted, Indiana would join a host of states that have recently announced moving toward mandatory online learning. Florida's recently passed Digital Learning Now law requires that high school students take at least one online course before acquiring a diploma, among other educational measures. Idaho's Board of Education preliminarily voted in favor last month of a policy that would require high school students to earn at least two online credits to earn a diploma.

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Michigan might be getting more cyber schools. Under legislation narrowly approved 20-18 by the Republican-led state Senate, Michigan's current cap of two cyber charter schools with approximately 1,...
Michigan might be getting more cyber schools. Under legislation narrowly approved 20-18 by the Republican-led state Senate, Michigan's current cap of two cyber charter schools with approximately 1,...
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12:34 PM on 11/02/2011
Computers make great toys, lousy teachers. I have taught in classrooms that were centered around computer teaching. A failure all the way around. Children do not have the attention span to learn anything from a computer.
Clevelandinwi
Progressive is good; regressive, not so much.
08:55 AM on 10/31/2011
Looks like Michigan need a 'reality' election. These 'dummy' schools pay a few bucks to pad the pocket of a 'backyard' politician and suddenly they have a right to educate? Wow!
07:11 AM on 10/31/2011
from begin i think child need full attention of parents and teachers, and then they automatically gos on,
then the result of the children comes ok
http://www.result.pk
11:23 AM on 10/30/2011
"The bill would also allow the cyber programs to receive the same per-student public funding as traditional public schools"----What!!!!-the whole point of cyber schooling is its low cost--this is nothing more than theft of Education dollars--follow the money--someone is going to get beyond huge profits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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11:24 PM on 10/29/2011
Cyber school doesn't work well if the parents don't get involved....sorta like real school...
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justanothergrandma
10:35 PM on 10/29/2011
I'm sorry to bring this up, but what if you are a single parent who cannot stay home with your child? Do you have to hire full time care to stay in your home while your child is 'in' school? Or what if the student's computer breaks down? Are they absent that day? I think as some have suggested a blend would be the best option here.
01:49 AM on 10/30/2011
Most homeschoolers and virtual schoolers past the age of 12 or so that I know let the child stay home alone and study with the teacher and give more assistance when they get home and during their lunch break. Computer breaking down probably means a trip to the library, once again this is something a child can do alone once they get to a certain age (probably a bit older).
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09:10 AM on 10/30/2011
justanothergrandma, great point. Or what if the students home environment is not a great place to learn for any number of reasons?

The answer lies with the rest of the community. It is up to the local community, which could be family, library, or church, to create a positive learning environment.

So if they cannot learn at home, the church should be opened up. Or find retired or older community members to open up their homes to the kids.

Cyber-learning is not for everyone. And it is not a replacement for physical proximity. But the Internet opens up a huge world of multi-media, expert opinions, and the ability to time shift instruction. (Why should math be at 10?)

One important goal of a healthy community is to be a learning community. The more the community learns the better the community is able to compete for the dwindling resources (in case of the USA the dwindling resources are jobs).

It takes a village to learn. And the larger the village the greater the learning. Steven Johnson has done some great research on this. There is great video on YouTube call "where do good ideas come from." But he is not alone. As the Video here added the Kahn Academy and MIT's open classroom are also attempts at this.

Kids today are intuitively connected. Cyber-learning builds on that to enrich the communities educational opportunities. Communities that don't teach as effectively as other communities will be left behind.
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Mr Anonymous
Mumpsimus, I am not entertained!
01:27 AM on 10/31/2011
Or they could just go to school. It is not the church's or elderly's job to provide places for students to go to school, its the governments job.
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Kevin R Schmidt
06:38 PM on 10/29/2011
Children need to be in a classroom and not on a laptop all day. Michigan will now lead the nation with students with their "Every Children Left behind' education reform. Being at the dead last bottom is not progress.
07:50 AM on 10/30/2011
This is just another attempt to disrupt the hard working,caring,creative professionals who've done such good work for the children of Detroit.And Flint.Saginaw,anyone? Benton Harbor? Repubs can't stand to see inner city kids succeed.
06:05 PM on 10/29/2011
Sorry, but the kids are the last people something like this will help. too bad.
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10:03 AM on 10/29/2011
Looks like I'm the only one here and I am just talking to myself. Interesting.

But at least I am recording all this for future reference.

ok here is an example.

I was just reading some marketing stuff from Gwinnett Technical College and it was advertising "Master Automotive Technology" degree. And I was thinking this is a perfect example.

Not everyone wanting a degree in Master Automotive Technology starts or progresses at the same level or pace. Cyber-modules can be very helpful here. Clearly there is no substitute for actual hands on a engine. But to supplement the curriculum with online learning makes perfect sense.

In fact, if you could deliver the modules over 4G to tablets would be excellent.

I like this. It is perfect.

4G is going to be a tipping point for online education because you can deliver the learning when and where the student needs it. Not just in a class.

In fact that is the problem with onsite education. It implies that learning can only occur at specific times and specific places. Miss the time or the place and you've missed the learning.

Online learning is evergreen.
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Djay0252
American First, Second, and ALWAYS
03:58 PM on 10/29/2011
Some people due better with hands on experience...see...you're not alone.
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04:21 PM on 10/29/2011
Djay, many people do better with hands on experience, particularly with things that are mechanical. For ideas, hands on works well with online.
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Eric Mann
Do you want to be on the opposite side of Progress
10:21 PM on 10/29/2011
Listen, I teach at a progressive charter school, and I think this idea is bunk. As a supplement? Fine, as a core learning institution? Not so much. Part of going to school is learning how to be places on time. Even Steve Jobs had to be places at certain times. More importantly, we find that one of the hardest obstacles to overcome is teaching kids how to work with other people. 21st C jobs will be parts of teams. If you cannot be social enough-and cyber schools promote lack of socialization-then you will not get or keep a job. These schools will do WAY more harm than good if they are allowed to become the core learning institutions for children.
01:52 AM on 10/30/2011
Actually generally speaking charter schools that I know just have children socialize in a different way (via video chat and the like). Many parents I know that decided to go this route had it chosen for them, generally though intense bullying and other bad situations. Keep in mind for most students a "progressive charter school" is not an option, it is either their neighborhood school or homeschooling (which is frequently nothing), this is designed to be a middle route.
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09:01 AM on 10/30/2011
Eric, when you say "this idea" is bunk, which specific idea do you mean?

I teach both onsite and online. So I see first hand the results from both.

I teach adults, which I acknowledge is different than kids. However, the benefits of the Internet are huge if we can take advantage of them.

If your point is that for some kids Cyber-learning, as the core learning method, is not as effective as onsite learning; I agree. But, on the other hand, chance favors the connected mind. We see the benefit of using the cyber-world to enhance the communities learning potential.

Some things really bothered me about what you said. You said that part of going to school was learning to be places on time. Are you saying that kids need to learn to follow rules? To be obedient? Interesting. And you say that it is hard to teach kids to work to others, I have no idea what you mean by that. Some kids are social and some are not. In general kids do not have to be "taught" to work with others it is part of our DNA.
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09:42 AM on 10/29/2011
Information delivery must be multi-channeled. The more bandwidth you can use the more information can be delivered.

The key is packaging the information so it is useful.

And here is the key, because of the Internet and more specifically TCP/IP is a packet connectionless protocol, it is very easy to packet information up in smaller and smaller modules. This can allow cyber-learning to be more effective.
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09:12 AM on 10/29/2011
In fact, the Internet should be managed socialisticlly as opposed to capitalisticly.

At some point the community needs to be able to trust information and you cannot trust anything under capitalism because the goal is winner-take-all.

Under socialism the goal is everyone benefits. Socialism says that the greater the common good the greater the community.
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09:06 AM on 10/29/2011
WOW! not a lot of activity in this thread. I wonder why?
11:10 PM on 10/28/2011
Online learning works great for motivated students. We should be providing them the opportunity to take as many classes as they want. The funding issue bothers me, because the price should be lower than a face to face class.
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09:09 AM on 10/29/2011
ed, exactly right. The price can be free for online in most cases.

Most information should be free, but some information you have to pay for.

Not because of capitalism but because of socialism.

Education works best in a socialistic system. (as does health care). This is a line of thought I have never stated. But I like it.

Health Care and Education as well as public safety like Fire and police are best done under a socialistic model. I think for obvious reasons.
01:54 AM on 10/30/2011
Not quite free, but it should be lowered. There are still textbooks to buy, teachers to pay (yes k12 uses teachers), etc. About the only costs that disappear are building and maintenance costs, but then again there are different types of maintenance with these programs.
11:28 AM on 10/30/2011
""The bill would also allow the cyber programs to receive the same per-student public funding as traditional public schools""--HUH!!! The whole point of cyber schools is its extremely low cost--so who is getting the windfall profits from this???--follow the money!!!!
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09:59 PM on 10/28/2011
I've not used these terms before, but in thinking about it, i think they're important terms.

Mediated and Non-mediated communication.

Non-mediated communication is live communication. This is where you have the most bandwidth.

Mediated communications is anything that comes between a sender and receiver. A letter, telephone, Internet are all mediated communication. Cave Paintings, and the printing press and even smoke signals are mediated communication.

The more bandwidth the more information you can provide.

Cyber learning can work great, but it needs video. 4G is the tipping point.

The problem with onsite learning is that you cannot explore sitting down.

Students want, because they know they can get it, content rich media delivered to them while they are mobile.
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09:50 PM on 10/28/2011
Now that did not get reviewed. Interesting. I wonder if it is key words.