Ireland Closes Embassy To The Vatican

By Francis X. Rocca
Religion News Service

VATICAN CITY (RNS) After months of tense relations over the clergy sex abuse scandal, the Irish government announced Thursday (Nov. 3) that it will close its embassy to the Vatican.

"The government believes that Ireland's interests with the Holy See can be sufficiently represented by a non-resident ambassador," said Ireland's Minister for Foreign Affairs Eamon Gilmore.

Gilmore presented the move as a cost-cutting measure, announcing that Ireland will also close its missions to Iran and the southeast Asian country of Timor-Leste.

The minister said that the decision to close Ireland's embassy to the Vatican was unrelated to controversy this summer over a government-sponsored report on sex abuse in the Irish diocese of Cloyne.

That report characterized the Vatican as "entirely unhelpful" for downplaying the child protection policies that Irish church leaders established in 1996. The report concluded that, in the case of Cloyne, those policies were "not fully or consistently implemented."

In a speech on the floor of the Irish parliament in late July, Prime Minister Enda Kenny said the report exposed the "dysfunction, disconnection, elitism, the narcissism that dominate the culture of the Vatican to this day." The Vatican recalled its ambassador to Ireland a few days later.

On Thursday, the Vatican's top spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, downplayed the importance of the embassy closure and said that relations between the Holy See and Ireland "are not in question."

Although many countries conduct their diplomatic relations with the Vatican through ambassadors posted elsewhere, such an arrangement is practically unheard of for a nation with a Catholic majority such as Ireland's.

Comments

[curiousdwk]

11:25 PM on 11/08/2011

Will somebody please tell me why the US has such an Embassy?

http://vatican.usembassy.gov/

Can anyone tell me what value has been gained by having such an Embassy - in either Ireland, or the US?

[jwcmass]

08:10 PM on 11/20/2011

I believe it was Reagan who first diplomatically recognized the Vatican, on the part of the US. While there may have been some justification for this at that time (Pope John Paul DID play a significant role in ending the Cold War -- I would argue that he played a more important role than Reagan did, because the Pope's relationship with Solidarity ensured that that organization remained non-violent -- and things may have gone very differently if that had not happened). But I agree that this is now an anachronism, especially given the abuse of the diplomatic immunity system by the Vatican. After a Boston court ordered the Archdiocese of Boston to release their personnel files (and this revealed both the VAST extent of the abuse, and proved that the Archdiocese had KNOWN about the problem, and had acted to cover-up the crimes committed) -- then Cardinal Ratzinger (the current pope, who seems to have been the one to develop the Vatican's policy on this -- by this time (early 2000's) John Paul, who was never much of an administrator, was pretty infirm) ORDERED other American dioceses to send their personnel records to the Vatican Embassy in Washington. ctd.

[jwcmass]

08:10 PM on 11/20/2011

p2 The diplomatic immunity system was NOT created for the purpose of allowing obstruction of justice and frustrate the state as it does its duties to see that the laws are enforced. So I think it is time to recognize that there is no need for a Vatican State (other religions do not have this status) -- it is the last relic of the Papal States, when the Pope ruled (usually very badly) a sizable chunk of what is now the modern Italian state (which became a modern state in 1870). Obviously the Papal States no longer exist, and there is no reason that Italy can assume sovereignty over the Vatican. Especially given the fact that the Pope doesn't seem to recognize that we are in the 21st Century, and that Canon Law is NOT superior to Civil Law, in every nation (this was the point that Irish Taoiseach Enda Kenny was making in that remarkable speech.) I don't see it happening here in the US soon, however -- political courage is not one of our strong-points, and electoral politics is the main reason for this. (Ironically, a Catholic in the White House would probably have more support in severing that relationship). I wouldn't look for it in an election year, and I doubt many of the GOP candidates would ever commit to it.

[Hysterian68]

07:04 PM on 11/08/2011

Homosexuality has become the sledge hammer of the Roman hierarchy for bashing critics of their incompetent mishandling of sexual abuse from day one. These same bishops--not to mention the Vatican's aging queens and other prelatical dunces who gravitate about this pontiff--have smeared their own priests serving under them. It's clear now and it should have been decades ago, these priests owe no further allegiance to these decadent, self-serving bishops.

Bishops have managed to hold these men up to derision, condemnation, and for the purposes of earning the opprobrium of the people. All in an effort to take the investigation, any investigation, off of them. It has all failed. The sling shot has recoiled in the bishops' faces.

Rome and the American bishops find themselves front and center in a deepening scandal, with widespread public criticism reaching right into the halls of government itself. With an enlightened laity saying "no more lies and deception" from Rome or from our chancery office.

Local law enforcement agencies are beginning to arise from their slumbers because Catholics of intelligence and good will are demanding the prosecution of this evil clergy.

This pope must resign and face charges before the International Court and his toadies with which he and John Paul II infested the universal Church must resign and be replaced by choices made by the royal priesthood of the laity.

[jwcmass]

08:31 PM on 11/20/2011

test

[jwcmass]

08:35 PM on 11/20/2011

p2

Believe it or not, there WAS a time when bishops were ELECTED by the faithful (laity and clergy) of the diocese. This, by the way, included the diocese of Rome -- which is the papal seat.


There is no theological reason why we cannot have a return to this system, indeed, the current situation arguably demands it.

[DevonTexas]

04:20 PM on 11/08/2011

good for them. Step one in liberating themselves from the RCC.

[bryanzth]

01:57 AM on 11/08/2011

Why does the Vatican need resident ambassadors? For that matter, why do real countries (as the Vatican is the speck left over from the Papal States) need to pay for a resident ambassador in the Vatican? Do we have a resident ambassador to the Dalai Lama or to the Archbishop of Canterbury? Meh. BZ.

[curiousdwk]

11:26 PM on 11/08/2011

But the US has an ambassador to the Vatican Embassy..

http://vatican.usembassy.gov/

[bryanzth]

10:13 AM on 11/09/2011

Yep, and we can't afford it.

Neither can we afford the several Opus Dei Justices, Senators, and Representatives that clutter our government. If you all think I'm hard on Mormons, ask me about Opus Dei!

BZ.

[Willie12345]

05:26 PM on 11/07/2011

The Catholic Church brought this upon themselves. Rather than being forthright, they have hidden their misdeeds and failed to honor the basic teachings of Christ. Hence, they have lost all creditability.

[BlueIndependent]

10:34 AM on 11/08/2011

For another misdeed that few know about, but is coming to the forefront in Spain right now, is Ninos Robados. I urge everyone to see the BBC documentary about this. As if the global child sex abuse scandal wasn't enough, now they have been uncovered as having dealt in trafficking newborn babies taken from their mothers and selling them to married, politically favorable couples throughout Europe.

[Joel Mendez]

04:03 PM on 11/08/2011

saw it. totally disgusting. they cover it on the raptor jesus show podcast.

[ThinkCreeps]

06:05 PM on 11/08/2011

Plan A had worked for over 1500 years. Why would they break with a winning formula like that?

[sweetlilthing]

09:40 AM on 11/07/2011

"a government-sponsored report on sex abuse in the Irish diocese of Cloyne" reported that the Vatican was "entirely unhelpful" for downplaying the child protection policies that Irish church leaders established in 1996. The report concluded that, in the case of Cloyne, those policies were "not fully or consistently implemented." "In a speech on the floor of the Irish parliament in late July, Prime Minister Enda Kenny said the report exposed the "dysfunction, disconnection, elitism, the narcissism that dominate the culture of the Vatican to this day."

SO it seems that despite what the Vatican says The Vatican's role and "relations ...between the Holy See and Ireland" ARE in question."

Finally a country with a conscience! Finally a country willing to confront the Vatican and put an end to child abuse. Ireland has had enough of it's children molested and stands up to protect them. I satute you Ireland and I hope you hear that America will soon follow your example.

[arabia]

10:23 AM on 11/07/2011

"I salute you Ireland...."

sweetlilthing,

I also salute Ireland for not only confronting church leaders but also the Irish police and parents who did precious little to deal with abuse in the past. However, don't be mistaken; I am sure the next gov. will re-establish relations with the Vatican.


"...that America will follow...."

No American politician or political party will opt to call home the US representative to the Vatican and alienate 75 million American Catholics of all walks of life and in the highest offices of America -- in education, business, the arts, the Court, and politics.

[sweetlilthing]

01:07 PM on 11/07/2011

Too bad your post doesn't lay blame where it truly belongs on the Vatican and Priests. I can only hope you are wrong and the good people of Ireland will continue to object to the elitism of the Catholic Church and their culture of child molestation.
In America two D.A.s have brought charges against Bishops for not reporting child abuse, which is against the law. You may be right about politicians but the People are getting mighty sick of Catholic priests raping our sons and daughters. Anyone who knows right for wrong and has any decent morals will hope that this plague called the Catholic Church will someday be wiped from the earth.

[schnauzergirl]

02:53 PM on 11/07/2011

The catholics of America have their priests as a religious conduit to the vatican. The embassy and the ambassador are our secular government's diplomatic representative to a foreign government. He IS NOT American catholics' representative to the pope.

[trky912]

02:51 PM on 11/06/2011

I just made a comment referring to a certain this "media outlet's" censorship of comments and guess what............................They removed it!!!!!! WTF????!!!!!!

[trky912]

02:31 PM on 11/06/2011

Why does ANYONE even feel the need to recognize the Vatican as a legitimate political power in the 21st century................Really?

[DonsBlog]

01:21 AM on 11/06/2011

the catholic church isn't going to change until its members start pulling out their money. unfortunately, the mainstay of the vatican is no longer faith but is prosperity

[lawmantoo]

11:05 PM on 11/05/2011

I just hope this doesn't mean war. I hear they're drafting Cardinals and Archbishops into the Swiss Guard.

[Celeste5793]

09:00 PM on 11/05/2011

More Catholic bashing. It's easy to bash the Catholic Faith because it's a peaceful Faith that will not harm those who smear it............. unlike that other.... faith.

[lawmantoo]

11:00 PM on 11/05/2011

Which "other faith"??

[Dan Same]

02:36 AM on 11/06/2011

Yeh, note how she won't even name whatever faith she's referring to? Typical.

[jsalspach]

04:30 AM on 11/06/2011

I don't know, I seem to remember something called the Crusades and the Inquisition. Those don't bring "peaceful" to mind. It's easy to be judgemental when you have tunnel vision and can't see that one religion is pretty much the same as another. But if you feel better bashing other faiths in order to divert attention from your own, go for it.

[Asmondius]

05:30 AM on 11/06/2011

The Crusades were a response to Muslim military expansion.

The Inquisition was a politically-motivated event which occurred in one country.

Do you have a point here?

[Celeste5793]

06:52 AM on 11/06/2011

Neither the crusades or the inquisition were even in the last century and certainly not in this one. If you don't want to be Catholic or Christian you don't have to be because no one is forcing it on you. And my comment is in response to the constant Catholic and Christian bashing that goes on just like you are doing now. Thank you for proving my point.

[travelingblogger]

08:25 PM on 11/05/2011

Of course the Vatican downplayed the Embassy's role in the church. They're embarassed that Ireland put their foot down to an antiquated and unattentive religion that wants nothing but power and money, not actually doing good for humanity.

I think the Vatican itself should be shut down for good. Sell off the assets and help feed the hungry and help them build farms so they can learn to feed themselves for the future.

[Asmondius]

05:31 AM on 11/06/2011

The Church is the largest charitable organization in the world.

[kadene]

08:12 AM on 11/06/2011

...and what better way to remain the largest charitable organization in the world but to assist in the perpetuation of poverty? Religion seems to thrive among the poor.

[writerjohnny]

08:14 AM on 11/06/2011

The "Church" is the giving of millions of parishioners, not the organization of popey and all his robed minions who have never produced anything of value for anyone. Should we call you bishop asmondius?

[Paul Schmid]

08:41 AM on 11/06/2011

The only embarassment that the Vatican should have is that the relationship at this time does not deserve a formal association. Conversation will continue, undoubtedly.

Shut down the organization? Then what? When the money runs out and the farms, though hopefully many survive and prosper, don't meet their expectations, the momentum is lost. Where is the leadership?

You believe that any social organization persists without structure and leadership? I think not. Apply this to the family, a school, a political system, a volunteer organization. I wish things could be different on bureacracy and just plain human nature, but we do need leaders. The structure must match the organization. It takes "a bit of effort" to support a billion-person organization. Have a pleasant day!

[jwald1]

06:13 PM on 11/05/2011

good for Ireland, perhaps it will help bring some changes to the church.

[phal4875]

05:19 PM on 11/05/2011

Perhaps Ireland is starting to care more about its children than about its religion.

[Oonagh]

05:27 PM on 11/05/2011

The Irish have their eyes wide open to the oppression, the country is not so Catholic anymore.

[kenudy]

08:30 PM on 11/05/2011

Ireland had always "cared" for their children

That is why Enda Kenny has stood and spoke clearly and directly to the Vatican more forcefully than any other political leader in the world.

Boston needed a Enda Kenny in 2002

[slimdave420]

04:53 PM on 11/05/2011

makes me want to move to Ireland. its about time someone stood up against hypocracy. I'm sure the pope is throwing a hissy fit. let's hope this catches on around the world.