iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

France, Germany Explore Plans To Radically Overhaul European Union, Create Core Eurozone

European Debt Crisis

First Posted: 11/09/11 01:23 PM ET Updated: 11/09/11 01:25 PM ET

BRUSSELS (Julien Toyer and Annika Breidthardt) - German and French officials have discussed plans for a radical overhaul of the European Union that would involve establishing a more integrated and potentially smaller euro zone, EU sources say.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy gave some flavour of his thinking during an address to students in the eastern French city of Strasbourg on Tuesday, when he said a two-speed Europe -- the euro zone moving ahead more rapidly than all 27 countries in the EU -- was the only model for the future.

The discussions among senior policymakers in Paris, Berlin and Brussels go further, raising the possibility of one or more countries leaving the euro zone, while the remaining core pushes on towards deeper economic integration, including on tax and fiscal policy.

A senior EU official said changing the make-up of the euro zone has been discussed on an "intellectual" level but had not moved to operational or technical discussions, while a French government source said there was no such project in the works.

Such steps are also opposed by many EU countries, whose backing would be needed for any adjustments to the bloc's treaties, making them anything but a done deal.

"This will unravel everything our forebears have painstakingly built up and repudiate all that they stood for in the past sixty years," one EU diplomat told Reuters. "This is not about a two-speed Europe, we already have that. This will redraw the map geopolitically and give rise to new tensions. It could truly be the end of Europe as we know it."

Nonetheless, the Franco-German motor has generally been the driving force in steps forward for European integration.

To an extent the taboo on a country leaving the 17-member currency bloc was already broken at the G20 summit in Cannes last week, when German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Sarkozy both effectively said that Greece might have to drop out if the euro zone's long-term stability was to be maintained.

But the latest discussions among European officials point to a more fundamental re-evaluation of the 12-year-old currency project -- including which countries and what policies are needed to keep it strong and stable for the next decade and beyond -- before Europe's debt crisis manages to break it apart.

In large part the aim is to reshape the currency bloc along the lines it was originally intended; strong, economically integrated countries sharing a currency, before nations such as Greece managed to get in.

"France and Germany have had intense consultations on this issue over the last months, at all levels," a senior EU official in Brussels told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the discussions.

"We need to move very cautiously, but the truth is that we need to establish exactly the list of those who don't want to be part of the club and those who simply cannot be part.

"In doing this exercise, we will be very serious on the criteria that will be used as a benchmark to integrate and share our economic policies."

One senior German government official said it was a case of pruning the euro zone to make it stronger.

"You'll still call it the euro, but it will be fewer countries," he said, without identifying those that would have to drop out.

"We won't be able to speak with one voice and make the tough decisions in the euro zone as it is today. You can't have one country, one vote," he said, referring to rules that have made decision-making complex and slow, exacerbating the crisis.

Speaking in Berlin on Wednesday, Merkel reiterated a call for changes to be made to the EU treaty -- the laws which govern the European Union -- saying the situation was now so unpleasant that a rapid "breakthrough" was needed.

"The world is not waiting for Europe," she said in comments that focused on treaty change but hinted at more fundamental shifts. "Because the world is changing so greatly, we have to make a mental decision to find an answer to the challenges."

From Germany's point of view, altering the EU treaty would be an opportunity to reinforce euro zone integration and could potentially open a window to make the mooted changes to its make-up.

EU officials have told Reuters treaty change will be formally discussed at a summit in Brussels on Dec. 9, with an 'intergovernmental conference', the process required to make alterations, potentially being convened in the new year, although multiple obstacles remain before such a step is taken.

ACCELERATION

While the two-speed Europe referred to by Sarkozy is already reality in many respects -- and a frustration for the likes of Poland, which hopes to join the euro zone -- the officials interviewed by Reuters spoke of a more formal process to create a two-tier structure and allow the smaller group to push on.

"This is something that has been in the air for some time, at least in high-level talks," said one EU diplomat. "The difference now is that some countries are moving forward very quickly ... The risk of a split, of a two-speed Europe, has never been so real."

In Sarkozy's vision, the euro zone would rapidly deepen its integration, including in sensitive areas such as corporate and personal taxation, while the remainder of the EU would be left as a "confederation", possibly expanding from 27 to 35 in the coming decade, with enlargement to the Balkans and beyond.

Within the euro zone, the critical need would be for core countries to coordinate their economic policies quickly so that defences could be erected against the sovereign debt crisis.

"Intellectually speaking, I can see it happening in two movements: some technical arrangements in the next weeks to strengthen the euro zone governance, and some more fundamental changes in the coming months," the senior EU official said.

But he cautioned: "Practically speaking, we all know that the crisis may deepen and that the picture can change radically from one day to another."

France and Germany see themselves as the backbone of the euro zone and frequently promote initiatives that other euro zone countries reject. The idea of a core, pared-down euro zone is likely to be strongly opposed by the Netherlands and possibly Austria, although both would be potential members.

"This sort of thinking is not the direction we want to go in. We want to keep the euro zone as it is," said a non Franco-German euro zone diplomat.

Britain, which is adamantly outside the euro zone, is also opposed to any moves that would create a two-speed Europe, or institutionalise a process even if it is already under way.

"We must move together. The greatest danger we face is division," Britain's deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, said during a visit to Brussels on Wednesday.

"That is why, while the United Kingdom fully supports deeper fiscal integration within the euro zone to support monetary union, we would not wish it to become a club within a club.

"To retreat from each other now would be to leave ourselves isolated in extremely tempestuous times." (Additional reporting by Robin Emmott and Luke Baker in Brussels, writing by Luke Baker, editing by Mike Peacock)

Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for Restrictions.

FOLLOW HUFFPOST BUSINESS
Subscribe to the HuffPost Money newsletter!
BRUSSELS (Julien Toyer and Annika Breidthardt) - German and French officials have discussed plans for a radical overhaul of the European Union that would involve establishing a more integrated and...
BRUSSELS (Julien Toyer and Annika Breidthardt) - German and French officials have discussed plans for a radical overhaul of the European Union that would involve establishing a more integrated and...
Filed by Maxwell Strachan  | 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 578
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (8 total)
photo
wcgfairfield
reaching out to genuine Christians
10:21 AM on 11/11/2011
Right on schedule. Closing in on the Daniel 2:40-45 prophesy time-line.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mumi009
"The truth will set you free"
07:48 AM on 11/11/2011
He who pays the piper calls the tune.
10:06 AM on 11/10/2011
This global ponzi scheme was destined to burst, and the financial elites know this better than anyone else. The game now seems to be shock therapy through austerity and forcing indebted countries to sell their most of their precious assets for pennies.
The Euro now has become a nightmare for the 99 %, and single countries are unable to do anything about it unless the whole continent acts with one voice against the financial elites and the super rich.
11:41 PM on 11/11/2011
well said
07:47 AM on 11/10/2011
What will France do with their banks when they fail due to their PIIGS exposure? Good luck with a nice exit France. Next up Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain, UK and France.
11:41 PM on 11/11/2011
great one
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jcaunter
Profile: schizoid, INTJ
06:28 AM on 11/10/2011
If the MSM has finally gotten ahold of this story, you can be sure that the oligarchs have already given up hope that this thing can be salvaged--and have already gotten their exit plans ready.
04:25 AM on 11/10/2011
Ya think? Gee, Wally, it was at least thirty years ago that conservative thinky-tank-type economists were warning these geniuses that trying to integrate sleepy mediterranean countries without a protestent work ethic to the german/french economic model was a prescription for failure
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
12:59 PM on 11/11/2011
Oh please, how is that protestant work ethic working out for us? The attempts I see to blame this problem on the people are just pathetic. yes it is true there are a lot of cultural differences between North and South. But all you have to do is look at who is running the EU Central Bank?
Mario Drgahi has become president of the European Central Bank as of November 1. He was vice chairman and managing director of Goldman Sachs International and a member of the firm-wide management committee. He was the Italian Executive Director at the World Bank.
The new PM of Greece?
Lucas Papademos takes over today as Prime Miinster of Greece. He was an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston. He was a visiting professor of public policy at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. And, he was previously a vice president of the European Central Bank. He has been a member of the Trilateral Commission since 1998.
Indications are that Mario Monti will succeed Silvio Berlusconi as prime minister of Italy, within in days. Monti completed graduate studies at Yale University, where he studied under James Tobin (see the Tobin Tax). He is a member of the European Commission. He is European Chairman of the Trilateral Commission and and member of the Bilderberg Group.
02:55 AM on 11/15/2011
nice recitation of their professional accomplishments, but you never address whether or not they are adherants to the work-work-work German/French model or the the casual-lax-med model of life.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
World Citizen
02:52 AM on 11/10/2011
a 2 speed euro zone is not going to happen. Whenever I see Germany and France heading any Eurozone effort, I know that it is mostly Germany that's footing the bill. The french as usual need to be seen as up to par with Germany when in fact the french have a very high unemployment rate. They hide the real numbers because they do not count people that are eternally out of work (called RMI).
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jcaunter
Profile: schizoid, INTJ
06:33 AM on 11/10/2011
I believe the discussion was likely along the lines of the Germans being the VIP with the new Good Euro, and the French heading the new Bad Euro. As for the French government manipulating statistics, they must be taking lessons from the US B(I)S.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
01:37 AM on 11/11/2011
Pretty much every country is "creative" about statistics in unemployment figures.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Hysterian68
bureaucrat/historian/ranter
02:36 AM on 11/10/2011
I'd be more concerned with an Italian default's effect upon French and Argentinian banks.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Hysterian68
bureaucrat/historian/ranter
02:17 AM on 11/10/2011
Before long France and Germany will be the only countries in the Union.
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Callyson
Trying to come up with a new creative microbio
01:24 AM on 11/10/2011
Does this mean that Liberals are finally going to admit socialism and various Left Wing ideologies are a failure?
They should but most Liberals are pretty arrogant and won't admit mistakes.
-------
Considering that Greece's debt was covered up by their previous Conservative government (and exposed by the current Socialist one), Italy under Berlusconi is in economic free fall, and Ireland was fiscally prudent but still took a hit, I'd say it's the conservatives who are pretty arrogant and won't admit mistakes.
07:43 AM on 11/10/2011
"Does this mean that Liberals are finally going to admit socialism and various Left Wing ideologies are a failure? "

Not no, but he!! no!
11:42 PM on 11/11/2011
very great one
11:52 PM on 11/09/2011
Does this mean that Liberals are finally going to admit socialism and various Left Wing ideologies are a failure?

They should but most Liberals are pretty arrogant and won't admit mistakes.
02:33 AM on 11/10/2011
When you look at the state of Germany and France, and then compare them to the US, there is no question which system has failed and which has succeeded.

And opposite to popular belief in the US, that is mainly built on misinformation, there is no socialism in Europe. Social democracies yes, socialism not. With your outrageous poverty rate, your wrecked infrastructure and your backward approach on most modern achievements like a sustainable health care system or a modern public transport system, there is no doubt the USA has a lot to catch up to.
11:43 PM on 11/11/2011
europe built on socialism
photo
trumbull desi
If I have something pithy to say, see below
08:42 AM on 11/10/2011
Clearly you don't know anything about economics or history.

Read a book. Oh wait ... that's a liberal trait.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
piceaglauca
The picture says it all....
11:09 PM on 11/09/2011
?Good bye Italy.
tonybfine
fractional reserve lending is counterfeiting
10:46 PM on 11/09/2011
As a Brit I like parts of the idea of the EU. I like that there is mobility of labour among European countries and we can meet folks from other countries with other ideas and cute accents. I think the Euro thing was too ambitious. It removes a degree of freedom in economic policy - the ability to revalue a country's currency when things get tough or when things get too hot. Lately I have been reading depressing stuff. How the developed world has essentially done a land grab on subsistence farmers in underdeveloped countries turning them into dispossessed poor like in favelas and slums. How the elites are doing the same to the 99% through control of the issuance of money and the slavery of debt. Now I am starting to see the EU as just part of this progress towards all the REAL wealth being stolen from the many and acquired by the 1%. I feel shame for being a willing victim until now.
10:41 PM on 11/09/2011
This debt situation is getting out of hand. The Europeans ought to get out infront of it, and quickly.

....anyway, if you need a laugh about this whole debt situation, check out www.debtcock.com
-its a bit crude, but hilarious lol
photo
Erikhuffpost
Anything can happen within the next 5 minutes
09:25 PM on 11/09/2011
"These people will eliminate the old capitalist class, crush the working class, and so organize society that all power and economic privilege remain in their own hands. Private property rights will be abolished, but common ownership will not be establishe­d. The new ‘manageria­l' societies will not consist of a patchwork of small, independen­t states, but of great super-stat­es grouped round the main industrial centres in Europe, Asia, and America. These super-stat­es will fight among themselves for possession of the remaining uncaptured portions of the earth, but will probably be unable to conquer one another completely­. Internally­, each society will be hierarchic­al, with an aristocrac­y of talent at the top and a mass of semi-slave­s at the bottom."

James Burnham, The managerial society, 1946

"Naturally­, common people don't want war; neither in Russia ,England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood­. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorsh­ip or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorsh­ip. ...voice or no voice, people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Herman Goering, Nuernberg Trials, 1945