NY Muslims Angry Over Spying: 'Don't Call NYPD' For Terror Concerns

Nypd Muslim

EILEEN SULLIVAN and CHRIS HAWLEY   11/14/11 10:53 AM ET   AP

NEW YORK — Fed up with a decade of police spying on the innocuous details of the daily lives of Muslims, activists in New York are discouraging people from going directly to the police with their concerns about terrorism, a campaign that is certain to further strain relations between the two groups.

Muslim community leaders are openly teaching people how to identify police informants, encouraging them to always talk to a lawyer before speaking with the authorities and reminding people already working with law enforcement that they have the right to change their minds. Some members of the community have planned a demonstration for next week.

Some government officials point to this type of outreach as proof that Muslims aren't cooperating in the fight against terrorism, justifying the aggressive spy tactics, while many in the Muslim community view it as a way to protect themselves from getting snared in a secret police effort to catch terrorists.

As a result, one of America's largest Muslim communities – in a city that's been attacked twice and targeted more than a dozen times – is caught in a downward spiral of distrust with the nation's largest police department: The New York City Police Department spies on Muslims, which makes them less likely to trust police. That reinforces the belief that the community is secretive and insular, a key reason that current and former NYPD officials cite for spying in the first place.

The outreach campaign follows an Associated Press investigation that revealed the NYPD had dispatched plainclothes officers to eavesdrop in Muslim communities, often without any evidence of wrongdoing. Restaurants serving Muslims were identified and photographed. Hundreds of mosques were investigated, and dozens were infiltrated. Police used the information to build ethnic databases on daily life inside Muslim neighborhoods.

Many of these programs were developed with the help of the CIA.

At a recent "Know Your Rights" session for Brooklyn College students, someone asked why Muslims who don't have anything to hide should avoid talking to police.

"Most of the time it's a fishing expedition," answered Ramzi Kassem, a law professor at the City University of New York, who supervises an advocacy organization that does such community presentations. "So the safest thing you can do for yourself, your family, and for your community is not to answer."

New York Republican Rep. Peter King said this kind of reaction from the Muslim community is "disgraceful."

Muslim groups have previously organized educational programs around the country describing a person's legal rights, such as when they must present identification to a police officer and when they can refuse to answer police questions. A California chapter of a national Muslim organization posted a poster on its website that warned Muslims not to talk to the FBI. The national organization ultimately asked the California branch to remove the poster from the website.

In New York, the AP stories about the NYPD and internal police documents have outraged some Muslims and provided evidence of tactics that they suspected were being used to watch them all along. These disclosures have intensified the outreach campaigns in New York.

A recently distributed brochure from an advocacy organization at the City University of New York Law School warns people to be wary when confronted by someone who advocates violence against the U.S., discusses terror organizations, is overly generous or is aggressive in their interactions. The brochure said that person could be a police informant.

"Be very careful about involving the police," the brochure said. "If the individual is an informant, the police may not do anything ... If the individual is not an informant and you report them, the unintended consequences could be devastating."

Sweeping skepticism of police affects community relations at all levels of law enforcement on a wide range of issues, not just the NYPD's counterterrorism programs. Interactions with a real terror operative could go unreported to law enforcement out of an assumption that the operative is actually working for the NYPD. A victim of domestic abuse or street violence may not trust the police enough to call for help.

Retired New York FBI agent Don Borelli said intelligence gathering is key to police work, not just in terrorism cases. But he said it can backfire when people feel their rights are being violated.

"When they do, these kinds of programs are actually counterproductive, because they undermine trust and drive a wedge between the community and police," said Borelli, now a security consultant with the Soufan Group.

Kassem said the activists' presentations are intended to "inform citizens about their legal rights when law enforcement comes to their doorstep." He said the goal is not to dissuade citizens from contacting authorities when they have concerns about a crime.

Since the 2001 terror attacks, the NYPD, city government officials and federal law enforcement have spent years building relationships with the New York Muslim community, assuring many Muslims that they are considered partners in the city's fight against terrorism. But in some cases, community members who have been hailed as partners and even dined with Mayor Michael Bloomberg were secretly followed by the NYPD or worked in mosques that the department had infiltrated, according to secret NYPD documents obtained by the AP.

"There's not a reference here to the fact that New York is the No. 1 target of Islamic terrorists, that the NYPD and the FBI have protected New York," King said, referring to one of the recent brochures about detecting police informants.

King, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, has held a series of hearings about the threat of radicalization within American Muslim communities and the level of cooperation members of the community provide to law enforcement. Muslim and civil rights advocacy groups have decried the hearings and pointed to terror cases around the country in which members of the Muslim community helped law enforcement foil plots.

New York Muslim community groups say they've held dozens of meetings for people who are worried about police surveillance and the NYPD's counterterrorism programs. In one instance, an audience of college students watched as a law student played out the role of a police informant and another played the role of the person the informant was targeting. The goal was to teach people to spot informants.

"Stay away from these people. That's one of the most powerful things you can do," said Robin Gordon-Leavitt, a member of an advocacy organization Creating Law Enforcement Accountability and Responsibility.

At another meeting, organized by the Council on American-Islamic Relations, students watched a film of two actors portraying FBI agents talking their way into a young Muslim's home and interrogating him. At the meeting, students were warned not to speak with police even if their parents, imams or Muslim clerics urge them to cooperate.

"You'll even hear imams saying, `As long as I obey the law, I have nothing to worry about.' But that's not how it plays out on the ground," said Cyrus McGoldrick, CAIR New York's civil rights manager.

CAIR has had a strained relationship with law enforcement and was named an unindicted co-conspirator in a terrorist financing case.

The Muslim community wants an independent commission to investigate all NYPD and CIA operations in the Muslim community.

___

Sullivan reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Matt Apuzzo and Adam Goldman contributed to this report from Washington.

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NEW YORK — Fed up with a decade of police spying on the innocuous details of the daily lives of Muslims, activists in New York are discouraging people from going directly to the police with thei...
NEW YORK — Fed up with a decade of police spying on the innocuous details of the daily lives of Muslims, activists in New York are discouraging people from going directly to the police with thei...
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This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
09:43 PM on 11/21/2011
To assess the extent of Islamic radicalism, it is important to look at objective data.

The paper "Shari'a and Violence in American Mosques" as published in the Middle East Quarterly gives important insights into the support of Sharia (as opposed to secular) law among Muslims in the US.

http://www.meforum.org/2931/american-mosques

This paper would suggest that the actions of the NYPD are reasonable.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Doug Sandlin
We see the world not as it is, but as we are.
07:49 PM on 11/21/2011
Some facts about American Muslims:

http://clarifyingislam.com/2011/05/01/american-muslims-are-good-american-citizens/
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ipolitics123
What an excellent day for an exorcism.
10:17 PM on 11/22/2011
Taqiyya much? I'm sure Goebbels is looking up at you proudly.
11:19 AM on 11/28/2011
Dude...stop acting like that a reference.

YOU OWN THAT WEBSITE.

YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS EVER USED THEIR OWN WEBSITE AS "PROOF"

Congratulations...wrm
Satirist1
All 4 d best in the best of all possible worlds
01:07 PM on 11/21/2011
"....Muslim youth are misguided into believing by the so-called champions of the cause of Islam that the current spate of killings and barbarism, which has no equal in the recent civilized history, is jihad in the name of Islam.

Even mosques and Islamic institutions in the U.S. and around the world have become tools in [Al-Qaeda's] hands and are used for collecting funds for their criminal acts.
Half of the funds collected go into the pockets of their local agents and the rest are sent to these thugs"- Jamal Miftah, October 29, 2006, op-ed in the Tulsa newspaper.
Now there' s a brave Muslim worthy of respect.
Quite unlike the usual half-truths and obfuscations issued by so- called moderates ( often just camouflaged Wahhabist and Shariah thumpers).
Satirist1
All 4 d best in the best of all possible worlds
12:55 PM on 11/21/2011
They don't want others to know what's really going on in their community.
The usual Offended M-lim chatter is just a camouflage for it.
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Tolerant
See perfection in every situation
12:41 PM on 11/21/2011
Jan Allen stated:

“I repeat that all Muslim citizens have all the rights I have.

I don't believe I brought up deportatio­n, only the convincing of Islamists to find a Sharia society elsewhere.

Most people don't want to stay where they are not welcome.”

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To Jan Allen:

Q 1: Is a Muslim who goes to a mosque for Friday prayers a "Muslim" or an "Islamist"?

Q 2: Do you propose convincing of other groups to leave? If so, what groups are they?

Q 3: Do you anticipate Islamists taking over America any time soon? If so, please show us your evidence?

Q 4: Do the women who wear the hijab, "Islamists" or "Muslims"?

Q 5: Name a few things Muslims must never demand, and if they do, you will then classify them as "Islamists".

Q 6: Do you have a term for gays and lesbians that is equivalent to "Islamists", for those gays and lesbians who strive for change for their accomodation?

Q 7: Do you consider Keith Ellison (a member of congress) to be a "Muslim" or an "Islamists"?

Q 8: Do you consider Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf to be a "Muslim" or an "Islamist"?

Q 9: Do you consider Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri to ba a "Muslim" or an "Islamist"?

Q 10: Do you consider Professon Seyyed Hossein Nasr to be a "Muslim" or an "Islamist"?

Q 11: Based on my comment history, do you consider me to be a "Muslim" or an "Islamist"?

Thanks,
Satirist1
All 4 d best in the best of all possible worlds
12:56 PM on 11/21/2011
A man who uses a great many words to express his meaning is like a bad marksman who, instead of aiming a single stone at an object, takes up a handful and throws in hopes he may get lucky by accident.

Voila-- tolerant.
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Tolerant
See perfection in every situation
01:34 PM on 11/21/2011
Additional Questions to Jan Allen:

Q 12: The Qur`an, which is the Word of God to a Muslim, states that it is a guidance for ALL humanity. So I ask: Are those Muslims who keep a copy of the Qur`an at home or with them "Muslims" or "Islamists"?

Q 13: What percentage of mosques in the U.S. do you think are "Islamists" mosques as opposed to "Islamic" mosques?

Q 14: Are the Tablighis, who are very apolitical, "Muslims" or "Islamists"?

Q 15: What influence do you think the "Islamists" have on the politicians today? Do you think they have inflitrated the government to the point where we are in danger of losing our liberal democratic institutions to these "Islamists"?

Q 16: Do you think that the existing Constitution and the U.S. laws and the way politics works, are enough to keep the "Islamists" at bay and not let them influence our lawmaking?

[Cont.]
Satirist1
All 4 d best in the best of all possible worlds
11:48 AM on 11/21/2011
The problem is not just terrorists. but also:
Islamists, Wahhabist and other Islamic fundamentalist proselytizers
They pose a threat to U.S. democracy every bit as daunting as the security challenge posed by those who act out Islamist fantasies they're indoctrinated with in real or virtual communities.
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Doug Sandlin
We see the world not as it is, but as we are.
07:52 PM on 11/21/2011
Out of millions of American Muslims -- how many show interest in these types of views (Islamism, Wahhabism, etc.)?

I see very little evidence of interest in radical views among American Muslims.

Yes, there are criminal terrorists -- and they are a handful of people, out of millions of American Muslims.

There's no reason to erroneously cast suspicion on Muslims in general because of possibly problematic views among a tiny percentage of Muslims in the U.S.
Satirist1
All 4 d best in the best of all possible worlds
03:13 AM on 11/22/2011
"Out of millions of American Muslims -- how many show interest in these types of views (Islamism, Wahhabism, etc.)?"

About 20%. According to most reliable polls.

And enough for a steady flood of millions in donations flowing to the Jihadist and Islamist causes all over the world.

try sober reality, even if it doesn't agree with your talking points.
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Tracy Kline
02:58 PM on 11/22/2011
Muslims are more likely to be criminal terrorists than any other religious group. If this were to subside then you would see a different attitude toward Muslims slowly develop. But as long as Muslims terrorize 100X more than all other religions, you can try and defend them all you want, but the attitude will never change.

So long as Muslim extremism continues to dominate headlines, and rest assured that it won't stop anytime soon, there will be this attitude toward Muslims in general.
Satirist1
All 4 d best in the best of all possible worlds
11:38 AM on 11/21/2011
"By categorizing every conviction against every Muslim as a witch hunt, American Muslim leaders are closing their eyes to the sad fact that we have a problem with extremism, and that Muslims are the only ones that can defeat extremist ideologies from the Muslim community"--Free Muslims Against Terrorism, Kamal Nawash
Satirist1
All 4 d best in the best of all possible worlds
11:36 AM on 11/21/2011
Brooklyn man charged in plot to join Pakistani jihadist group
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-09/us/new.york.terrorism.suspect_1_restive-tribal-region-brooklyn-man-militants?_s=PM:US

"Saifullah Paracha, a successful businessman and for years a New York travel agent... was concerned that detectors at ports “would make it difficult to smuggle radioactive materials into the country,”
For the small circle of Qaeda operatives described in the December 2008 assessment of Mr. Paracha, terrorism appears to have been a family affair. There was Mr. Mohammed... his nephew, Mr. Baluchi, who was married to another militant, an American-trained neuroscientist, Aafia Siddiqui. And there was Mr. Paracha and his son, Uzai..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/26/world/guantanamo-files-portrait-of-push-for-post-september-11-attacks.html?_r=2&hp

Could events like these have anything to do with the need to monitor Muslim communities in NY? Nah.....
10:50 AM on 11/21/2011
Why don't American Muslim communities show their tolerance by screaming about the victimization and murder of Christians in Egypt, and other parts of the Middle East. It would go a long why to help Islamic-American public relations if the American Muslim community could be seen taking a popular stand for something that helps Christians. The Christian community in Egypt pre-dates the Islamic. The last Egyptian President, despite his faults, did protect the Christians in Egypt and as a result enjoyed a special status with the West. Why doesn't the American Muslim community take up this cause, and show that they can protect as well as demand, human rights and civil liberties.
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Doug Sandlin
We see the world not as it is, but as we are.
07:53 PM on 11/21/2011
Why don't American Christians condemn the IRA?

Because the IRA and Al Qaeda are both violent political groups comprised of the members of one religion that have nothing to do with the religion itself.

Violence against Christians in Egypt is conducted by radical Salafists, not by mainstream Muslims.
01:14 AM on 11/22/2011
The IRA is not running around the world killing people. The IRA's problem is political, not religious. The division actually took place when Henry the 8th's split with the Vatican, and not all followed suit by others on the "British Ilse" . Comparing condemnation of the IRA with condemnation of world wide Muslim extremism seems too far fetched to be relevant to the subject. Its time for Muslims worldwide to step up and be counted for promoting common good if they want to improve their worldwide reputation. I am sick of America being constantly condemned and everyone else getting a pass.
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Tracy Kline
03:06 PM on 11/22/2011
It doesn't matter which Muslims are doing the violence against the Christians. The point is, it's religiously motivated, and Muslims are earning their bad reputation. No one is fabricating boogie man Muslim stories. They've earned their reputation.
02:17 PM on 11/24/2011
And Jews in the region predate them both. And arabs and Palestinians want the whole area Judenrein

But don't go looking for sympathy from American Arab- Muslims there either
09:17 AM on 11/21/2011
That "if you have nothing to hide don't worry " wouldn't and doesn't fly for any American. You don't generalize the entire populace

You create a frontline against the entirety of the Muslim community, you can expect them to man that line not for terrorists just for themselves as a whole. You want a frontline against Islamic extremism in Muslim communities, you need to make the American Muslim communities that frontline.
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Doug Sandlin
We see the world not as it is, but as we are.
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Elecktra001
PC assassin
06:08 PM on 11/17/2011
Closing ranks makes it look like you really have something to hide.
Satirist1
All 4 d best in the best of all possible worlds
12:56 PM on 11/21/2011
EXACTLY!!!
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sstevens37
I have the right to hate you
12:39 PM on 11/17/2011
you know, I once worked for a muslim...come to find out, he spyed on me at home...
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01:46 PM on 11/16/2011
More indications that we need to recognize and act on the fact that Islamism is the ideology of our enemies in the war we are fighting. That will allow us to distinguish Muslim friends from Muslims enemies, which we clearly are unable to do with any accuracy at this time.

"Victims and families of those killed in the Fort Hood massacre are asking compensation totaling $750 million from the government for failing to stop the attack.

[…]

Although neither the Department of Defense nor the FBI had specific information concerning the time, place, or nature of the attack, they collectively had sufficient information to have detected Hasan's radicalization to violent Islamist extremism but failed both to understand and to act on it," said the report from Sens. Joe Lieberman, I-Connecticut, and Susan Collins, R-Maine."

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/11/us/texas-fort-hood-lawsuit/

"A Northern Virginia man is suing one of the nation’s most secretive intelligence agencies, claiming it revoked his security clearance because his wife attended an Islamic school and works for a Muslim nonprofit."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/worker-suing-intelligence-agency-claims-anti-muslim-bias/2011/10/31/gIQABMU0bM_blog.html
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Yasser Yousufi
Parthian
02:16 AM on 11/16/2011
So democracy and fighting for your rights is a noble endeavor in western societies as long as Muslims aren't doing it. Nice~!
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02:01 PM on 11/16/2011
Depends on what kind of Muslim you are talking about.

Islam is not monolithic, you know.

There are American Muslims who do not wish America well. There are other American Muslims who are patriotic and loyal.

They are fairly easy to tell apart by asking this question: Should Sharia law be subservient to civil law in a future America with a Muslim majority population?

Put another way: Should American Muslims work to create a parallel society that operates on the principles of Sharia rather than on the principles of liberal democracy?

One more take from a different angle: Should there be a distinctive American Islam that is defined by Sharia law that has been revised to accord with America's present law and human rights regime?

Those who answer yes, no and yes are our friends--the others are unwelcome colonists.
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Yasser Yousufi
Parthian
02:32 PM on 11/16/2011
JAM,

Are you another one of those creeping Sharia wingnuts? I wouldn't be surprised if you turn out to be a birther as well.

You look like an old man by the looks of you. Muslims have been living long before you were born in this country. Can you name me one single Muslim leader who has called for Sharia to be implemented in US? You are more likely to be attacked by maritians than come under sharia law. Muslims themselves cannot agree on what Sharia Law actually comprises therefore there is not a single country that is under Sharia right now (If Saudi Arabia was under Sharia, muslims wouldn't need a visa to visit their holy cities), most countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia follow a combination of British law with some aspects of Islamic law and many follow secular laws. So yea Islam like all other religions is not monolithic, which is hardly surprising. There are bad muslims, very bad muslims and downright evil muslims around, just like in any other religion/race. So as long as you are neutral in judgment and not singling out muslims people, Im on your side~!
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Tolerant
See perfection in every situation
07:46 PM on 11/20/2011
"They are fairly easy to tell apart by asking this question: Should Sharia law be subservien­t to civil law in a future America with a Muslim majority population­?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about simplifying this test question as such:

"As an American Muslim, are you patriotic and loyal to the United States? Yes/No"

Or, asking them: "Do you take a pledge on the U.S. Constitution and abide by it? Yes/No"

Now, questions to my friend, Jan Allen:

Q 1: Are American Muslims allowed to criticize the U.S. government?

Q 2: Are the American Muslims allowed to participate in social activism?

Q 3: Are the American Muslims allowed to consider a U.S. law unjust? If so, are they allowed to work for changing it?

Q 4: Should the American Jews be asked the question: "Are you loyal to America or Israel?"

Q 5: Should members of other faiths be asked the question: "Are you loyal to America?"

Q 6: Am I allowed to ask you if you could tell me the probability of American Muslims ever becoming a majority?

Q 7: Are the Christians allowed to engage in social activism to influence changes to the U.S. constitution and its laws to suit their religious beliefs, such as on abortion, life beginning at conception, etc.?

Q 8: Are the Jews allowed to engage in social/political activism so that American policies favor Israel?

That's it for now.

Anxiously awaiting your reply.

Thanks,
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Abdul-Halim Vazquez
10:48 PM on 11/20/2011
Basically.
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11:02 PM on 11/20/2011
This is not about rights. Muslims citizens have to right to try to change America as all citizens do.

This is about a war that is going on now between Islamist Muslims and Muslim and non Muslim supporters of liberal democracy.

If you want to choose Islamism, that is your right.

Many Americans chose Soviet communism.
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Doug Sandlin
We see the world not as it is, but as we are.
08:17 PM on 11/15/2011
Our millions of fellow Americans who worship as Muslims have consistently shown themselves to be loyal American citizens:

http://clarifyingislam.com/2011/05/01/american-muslims-are-good-american-citizens/

Everyone who is suggesting otherwise needs to become a bit more familiar with the facts.
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02:19 PM on 11/16/2011
Our millions of fellow Americans who worship as Muslims have consistent­ly shown themselves to be loyal American citizens:
========

There is a problem.

Any suggestions toward a solution?
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Doug Sandlin
We see the world not as it is, but as we are.
07:27 PM on 11/16/2011
Yes.

We continue to educate non-Muslim Americans regarding the fact that there is no problem at all with very close to all American Muslims, thus helping to eradicate unreasonable, error-based prejudice against Muslims.

We've both been "at this" (engaging in conversation online here at HuffPost) about Muslims, for what -- close to a year and a half, or so, now?

I've done a lot of reading, talked to a lot of people, watched a lot of videos, and have gotten to know some Muslims, and respectfully, Jan, I simply do not share your concerns about Islamism.

I don't see Islamism affecting the mindsets of American Muslims. I'm not sure how much it's really affecting European Muslims. Many Muslims want Sharia law (actual Sharia, not the Taliban-style anti-Islam version) and Islamic government in their own countries, but that's because they see those things as a way to set things right, the way many Christians do, with Christian principles.

I don't see the real-world examples I'd need to see from American Muslims (and more than one or two of them) before I could share your concerns.

Regarding what I see as a real problem -- I offered my suggestions for a solution, above.