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Indefinite Military Detention of U.S. Citizens Not Blocked By The Senate For The Second Time

Dianne Feinstein

First Posted: 12/01/11 03:58 PM ET Updated: 12/01/11 08:44 PM ET

WASHINGTON -- The Senate on Thursday blocked a second attempt to spare U.S. citizens from potential indefinite military detentions and was set to vote on a third effort to do the same later in the day.

Under a provision of the mammoth defense authorization bill, the military would be granted the authority to detain and hold anyone indefinitely if that individual is suspected of having ties to al Qaeda, including any American arrested in the United States.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee, offered an amendment to curb the measure by specifying that it applied to suspects captured "abroad." The amendment failed on a vote of 45 to 55. Feinstein was expected to get a vote later in the day on another amendment that would explicitly exclude U.S. citizens from military detention.

The heated debate has crossed party lines, with three Republicans -- Sens. Rand Paul (Ky.), Mike Lee (Utah) and Mark Kirk (Ill.) -- favoring the amendment, and 10 Democrats and independent Sen. Joe Lieberman (Conn.) opposing it. The debate also has left many Americans scratching their heads as to whether Congress is actually attempting to authorize the indefinite detention of Americans by the military without charges.

But proponents -- led by Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) and Carl Levin (D-Mich.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee -- say that is exactly what the war on terror requires. They argued that the bill simply codifies precedents set by the Supreme Court and removes uncertainty, which they said would better protect the country.

Ayotte argued that passing either of Feinstein's amendments would hurt security.

"I would ask my colleagues to reject [the amendments], which ... would take away the authority of the executive branch as allowed by our Supreme Court and would bring us back, would make us less safe in this country," said Ayotte, the former New Hampshire attorney general. "We have to protect America and make sure that we get the maximum information to prevent future attacks on this country."

That argument did not sit well with Feinstein, who countered that military detentions and prosecutions have produced poor results, while civilian law enforcement and federal courts have racked up numerous convictions, lengthy prison sentences and a perfect terrorism prevention record.

"I really object to the statement just made that this will make the United States of America less safe," Feinstein said. "Ten years of experience has seen that it has not. Plot after plot after plot has been interrupted. I have served on the Intelligence Committee for 11 years now. ... This country is much more safe because things have finally come together with a process that is working."

An administration official laughed at Ayotte's contention that she wanted to protect the executive branch, since the Obama administration has threatened to veto the bill if it passes in its current form. The official also questioned Ayotte's expertise on the issue despite her prosecutorial background.

"This is someone who has been in the Senate all of 11 months and has shown absolutely no substance on this argument," the official said. "As attorney general, she didn't have a single [counterterrorism] case, not one."

Feinstein also insisted that the military is not the answer to every safety issue, especially if using the armed forces means establishing new infringements on liberty.

"This constant push that everything has to be militarized ... I don't think that creates a good country," Feinstein said. "Because we have values, and due process of law is one of those values. And so I object, I object to holding American citizens without trial. I do not believe that makes us more safe."

The secretary of defense, the head of national intelligence and the FBI director have all said the bill would make their jobs harder.

But Graham argued that the military needs to be empowered to grab anyone, including citizens, to ensure the country remains safe. He noted that two of the highest-profile recent planned attacks on America failed only by chance, in the cases of the attempted Times Square bombing and the attempted Christmas airplane bombing.

"There's nothing to suggest that our intelligence community doesn't need as many tools as possible, because the guy got through the system and we're just lucky as hell the bomb didn't go off," Graham said, referring to the Christmas attempt. "The Times Square bomber -- nobody interrupted that plot. The guy didn't know how to set the bomb off. We're just lucky as hell the bomb didn't go off.

"So don't stand here and tell me that we have got it right because we have not," Graham continued in a heated exchange, refusing to let Feinstein interrupt. "We never will always get it right. I'm not saying that as criticism, because we're going to get hit again. We can't be right and lucky all the time."

He argued that adding restrictions on whom the military can detain would get in the way of counterterrorism efforts.

"The one thing I don't want to do is micromanage the war," Graham said.

The Senate bill -- specifically, sections 1031 and 1032 -- requires the military to detain al Qaeda suspects, but it permits the Defense Department to then free U.S. citizens if it chooses. The House version of the bill lacks the provision on detaining Americans.

UPDATE: 8:35 p.m. --

Feinstein's amendment failed when the broader bill passed the Senate with compromise language that says current law and precedent on detentions will not change.

Michael McAuliff covers Congress and politics for the Huffington Post. Talk to him on Facebook.

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WASHINGTON -- The Senate on Thursday blocked a second attempt to spare U.S. citizens from potential indefinite military detentions and was set to vote on a third effort to do the same later in the day...
WASHINGTON -- The Senate on Thursday blocked a second attempt to spare U.S. citizens from potential indefinite military detentions and was set to vote on a third effort to do the same later in the day...
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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FZliveson 06:25 PM on 12/01/2011
Lindsey Graham says "The one thing I don't want to do is micromanage the war".
WHAT WAR? There is no declared war on anyone. Al Qaeda calls themself enemies of what?
Who is this group? Where are they? So we are in a war declared against a particular group who doesn't like us. What if they change their name from "al Qaeda" to "bub Alibaba" does this mean the law automatically morphs into cover that  Read More...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rightfromwrong
it's not the years in your life that count, its th
03:15 PM on 12/15/2011
people dont realize how much of a genius bin laden was. he did waay more damage to america than what was witnessed on 9/11.
he predicted what would happen. he may be the greatest war strategist to ever live.
oops, i hope what im saying is not seen as praising him. i may be detained indefinitely and labeled an al-qaeda sympathizer.
04:22 PM on 01/01/2012
bin laden was and will always be just a figurehead. he had no real power and would have been killed if they need a better fall guy
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Teri L
02:36 AM on 12/13/2011
Bush started all this when he was in office. Please look up "Posse Comitatus Act" and "Insurrection Act of 1807".

The NDAA of 2012 will repeal the Posse Comitatus Act.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rightfromwrong
it's not the years in your life that count, its th
03:07 PM on 12/15/2011
no! its too late to play the bush card. i supported obama whole heartedly, but lets be real. its no blaming bush for this. bush started this? thats why i dispise americans and their hypocrisy
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BarryWolk
99% OF THE REPUBLICANS MAKE THE REST LOOK BAD
07:08 PM on 12/12/2011
If Obama doesn't veto this legislation, I won't vote for the first time since the Nixon Presidency! Our once great nation is circling down the drain while we are all distracted listening to Pokémon quotes and other completely moronic statements from the re'Thug'licans while Rome burns!!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rightfromwrong
it's not the years in your life that count, its th
03:08 PM on 12/15/2011
obama is for this legislation. in fact, he is pushing democrats to vote for it. america is a joke!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dbrett480
08:36 PM on 12/08/2011
The US military is allowed to hold it's own members indefinitely under military law, so what's different with the US military holding enemies caught overseas?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rightfromwrong
it's not the years in your life that count, its th
03:09 PM on 12/15/2011
this says they can hold american CIVILIANS. its a big difference.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dbrett480
12:10 AM on 12/16/2011
If the person is caught overseas, then they should be held in military custody as there is no federal law enforcement jurisdiction. If they are caught by federal law enforcement within the US, then they should stay in federal law enforcement custody.
11:56 PM on 12/07/2011
The right to a writ of habeas corpus in the original writing of the constitution was meant to protect US citizens of being held without charge.

The idea of the military nabbing people in the night and whisking them away indefinitely sounds like something out of a sinister dystopian movie...or a documentary of the KGB.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Michael D Ballantine
Texas Justice Party - Chairperson
09:11 PM on 12/07/2011
This legislation is wrong on so many different levels, it is unimaginable how it even got off someone's desk let alone approved by the Senate. Terrorism is a crime and it needs to be handled by the police. In America, a person is innocent until proven guilty and we respect tradition rights such as habeus corpus that is enshrined in our constitution. This is not legislation that leads to a slippery slope, this is the slippery slope. Not only should it be rejected by the Senate, but we must make a concerted effort to push Senator Graham out of office when he is up for reelection. Militarizing crime leads to one thing, a military government.
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ShambalaMountain
Kiss the Buddha.
03:19 PM on 12/06/2011
It's bad enough America is quickly descending into the 2nd Great Depression\.

Now we are going to be living in a Gestapo State. Officially, with approval from the congress.

Somewhere in Hell, Adolf Hitler is Tweeting "LMAO!"
06:35 PM on 12/04/2011
As I said before, the Republic and democracy in the USA will fail within one generation. We are witnessing the rapid decline of the United States of America and the West in general- 9-11, Afghanstan, Iraq, crisis of 2008 and the Euro Crisis of 2011. Very likely the USA will have a US treasury bond market crash and an Oil shock in the next few years. No Democracy will lasts forever. We can still stop it but it will slow down and not reverse our decline and collapse.
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BarryWolk
99% OF THE REPUBLICANS MAKE THE REST LOOK BAD
07:13 PM on 12/12/2011
I've been saying the same exact thing for years, Erik. I described it as a 'Road Warrior' scenario but I thought it would happen decades from now. I have since updated this timetable to merely several years from now.

We are SCREWED!
06:35 AM on 12/04/2011
Anyone supporting this bill MUST be diselected, and they SHOULD be tarred and feathered and have FASCIST tattooed on their faces, but then that would be as unconstitutional as what they are trying to legislate.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NagNagor
God's most regretable gift "The Mouth"
03:07 PM on 12/04/2011
When have we not been protecting our interests?
12:07 AM on 12/04/2011
We are always at war with Eurasia.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dave Price
We need to reverse this Fascist Corporatism
01:15 PM on 12/03/2011
The 99% say this country is trying to start the " New World Order" and its type of government is a Fascist form of Corporatism. The Government is taking us very serious as they used Home-Land Security to disband the Occupy forces trying to peacefully bring this fact to the rest of Americans.

If we where wrong? Why are they trying to pass laws to lock up Americans without a trial for life? YOU KNOW they will quickly call Occupy terrorists, they will plant some CIA agent to do damage and blame it on Occupy. Many in this world feel that it was this " New World Order" that actually attacked the twin towers and used it to bring a few middle eastern countries into the " NEW WORLD ORDER". They also passed the Patriot Act that stripped Americans of so many rights and they are trying to cement them into place now to derail the effort to overturn the Patriot Act all together..

" We the People" have been sold out.. America has been the victim of a Hostile Corporate Take-Over and while you think i'm nuts, your rights, your children's rights are being stolen so fast right in front of your face.. WHY? because you sit and allow them too! THIS IS WHY WE MARCH!

http://www.occupytogether.org/ check to see the City closest to YOU!
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NagNagor
God's most regretable gift "The Mouth"
03:42 PM on 12/04/2011
My My My. Such fertile ground. Those walking the straight line think your a crack. I never had much patience for those people, they will just keep shaking their heads up and down until they walk them selves straight over a cliff. "Novus Ordo Seclorum", He who sits over the pyramid that is yet to be completed. If you believe in the world of conspiracy than you have nothing to believe in. For every conspiracy unravels as the next one unfolds. Does the 99 have a clue??? They think they have truth. Every article I read over google is the truth according to google. Was Osama lunch for the crusties at the bottom of the Ocean?? Obama said he was. I don't know the truth I wasn't there to establish it for myself. The best I can do is process data from the mouths of men and come to my own conclusions. However, I do have one truth, which guides me well. There is one gift that man has that his fellow animal counterpart was not given. And that was the Art of Deception. No, I don't think your nuts. I just don't think anarchy is the way to go. In fact I know its not. Of the two ways to manipulate force will not work here, cunning our only other option.
10:45 AM on 12/03/2011
It's bills like these where you can plainly see who the traitors are. And pretty much anyone with half a brain, on the right or left, knows that giving the military the right to lock us up indefinitely without any proof of anything is DANGEROUS. It is exactly the type of thing that we fought against in the Revolutionary War. The moment the military can do that, the moment they can easily launch a coup. Military coups can only be accomplished if you can instantly silence all major voices of dissent. Such voices could quickly spur the masses against the coup. You silence those potent voices, the masses are left with nothing but military propaganda. I expected Graham to be in favor of this bill, and of course Lieberman, who has been a militant since at least the 90s, when he constantly pushed with McCain for an invasion of Iraq. Lieberman's stood for every freedom-destroying legislation of this decade. He and Graham are obvious traitors. Levin, on the other hand, that surprised me. He must be one of those undercover militarists, like has been done countless times through history, where they pretend to be one way and then turn 180 at an extremely important juncture. Things must be desperate on the neo-con side for them to show thei cards so blatantly. They know we're on to them, and unless they do someone quick, we're gonna overthrow their Wall Street/corporate grip on America
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06:56 AM on 12/03/2011
an we send politicians to Gitmo too ? I think I know a few hundred corrupted political enemies of the state. Then at least some inhabitants of Gitmo are guilty
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PatrickforO
America needs a Labor Party
03:12 AM on 12/03/2011
Transnational corporations and big banks are positioning themselves for bloody oppression of the growing protest movements. Remember that our government has never really been ours; it was designed to be, and is, a government of, by and for the 1%. The passage of this law is a sick and tragic mistake that will have horrible consequences for Americans. Oh, the 1% will prosper no matter what; I'm talking about the rest of us and our pending adjustment to being citizens of a police state.
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12:51 AM on 12/03/2011
I have to wonder about the sanity of some of the elite, their can be only one Joseph Stalin and if you are not at the very top of the heap then you to can be dissappeared. Why would you want to emulate a Joseph Stalin? Nihilism.