iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Payroll Tax Cut Without Offsets Contemplated By White House, Congress And Norquist

Obama Grover Norquist

First Posted: 12/06/11 02:46 PM ET Updated: 12/07/11 08:35 AM ET

WASHINGTON -- As the United States Senate considers yet another variation of the payroll tax cut, there appears to be little common ground over how the measure should be paid for. Democrats, along with one Republican, continue to argue for a small surtax on millionaires. Republicans either balk at that proposal or say they don't support extending the payroll tax cut at all.

The impasse is unlikely to be bridged by the time the newest bill comes to the floor on Thursday, leading operatives to suggest that it would simply be easier to pass the payroll tax cut extension without paying for it.

Longtime anti-tax advocate Grover Norquist said he would prefer to see the tax cut accompanied by an equivalent reduction in spending to make up for the decrease in revenue. He and other conservatives said that if spending offsets do not accompany the tax cut, it would be harder for Democrats to argue against other such tax cuts, including a repatriation holiday on corporate taxes.

"No to a tax increase, yes to extending it without a quote, unquote 'pay for,' and the preference is to do it with spending cuts as the offset," said Norquist. "The worst thing you can do would be to extend it with a permanent job-killing marginal tax increase. You would end up with permanent marginal tax rates in exchange for a temporary reduction in tax rates on Social Security."

When the payroll tax cut was first introduced at the end of 2010, there was no talk about how it would be offset. Instead, it was passed as part of an agreement to extend the Bush tax cut for an additional two years. The estimated $860 billion price tag was simply put on the books.

So why not do the same now, when the price tag is significantly lower -- $185 billion to reduce the employee’s share from 4.2 percent to 3.1 percent of wages, along with other tax policy changes -- and Republicans have, as a matter of ideological principle, argued that tax cuts pay for themselves?

The question was posed to two senior Obama administration officials during a briefing with reporters yesterday. And while they continued to argue that there were easy ways to cover the payroll tax cut -- while needling Republicans for suddenly insisting that tax cuts be offset -- they never explicitly said it had to be paid for.

"So we still think that the payroll tax, unemployment insurance, any other jobs measures can be paid for in a responsible way," one said. "The important thing here, though, is that this get done."

Reminded that, at least as far as unemployment insurance is concerned, the president has consistently held that such emergency expenditures don't need to be offset, the official replied: "I don't think the president's longstanding position on that has changed. But there is a way of paying for it that was put forward in the American Jobs Act."

And therein lies the problem. While both Republicans and Democrats privately admit that they have been and would be comfortable with letting tax cuts continue without offsets, neither will say so publicly, lest their commitment to deficit reduction be questioned.

Top congressional Republican aides argue that a payroll tax cut extension without offsets isn't necessarily easier to pass than one paid for by a millionaire's surtax. But the reasoning behind that argument has more to do with timing than philosophical disputes.

Congress will be voting on major appropriations bills before the Christmas recess. To have them turn around and stack $185 billion on the deficit would be too much to ask, the logic goes.

"The president said in his speech to Congress and in speeches since, that ‘everything’ in the bill will be paid for," Don Stewart, a spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), said in an email. "I think it will be MUCH easier to pass it if they take out the poison pill of a tax hike on job creators; a tax hike, by the way, that has bipartisan opposition."

A top House aide was more blunt. "I don't think either would pass the House," the aide explained, when asked about a payroll tax cut extension without offsets and one that was paid for with a millionaire's surtax. "So it's a 'would you rather burn to death or drown' type of question."

FOLLOW HUFFPOST POLITICS
Subscribe to the HuffPost Hill newsletter!
WASHINGTON -- As the United States Senate considers yet another variation of the payroll tax cut, there appears to be little common ground over how the measure should be paid for. Democrats, along wit...
WASHINGTON -- As the United States Senate considers yet another variation of the payroll tax cut, there appears to be little common ground over how the measure should be paid for. Democrats, along wit...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 2,990
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Post Comment Preview Comment
To reply to a Comment: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to.
View All
Favorites
Highlights
Bloggers
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (101 total)
  1 of 3  
COMMUNITY PUNDITS
photo
TRex86 04:15 PM on 12/06/2011
I don't recall voting for Grover Norquist, and I'm definitely tired of his circumlocutary obfuscations over tax policy. Who made him Chancellor of the Exchequer? Cut; no cut? Extend; no extension? KISS. His pledge bans tax increases, but it says NOTHING about linking tax cuts to spending cuts or otherwise redirecting revenues to "pay for" tax cuts. In general he has subscribed to the "tax cuts pay for  Read More...
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Amalek
Highly decorated HP warrior
11:30 PM on 12/13/2011
Our broken government.   They keep breaking the first law of holes.  When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.  

Until we get rid of all these fools this country is going to continue to go down the crapper.
04:17 PM on 12/08/2011
Interesting article
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
lcovert
Liberal Goddess
07:53 PM on 12/07/2011
If you want to save social security (which of course, the Republicans don't really want to do, they just want to scare people) then you should listen to Senator Sanders. He's been trying to get this plan passed for a while now...

This bill will start taxing income above $250,000 a year to cover this Social Security shortfall; so instead of just “raising the cap” it lets that cap stay, and then takes it off again on income above $250,000.

http://www.nationofchange.org/sen-sanders-plan-actually-fix-social-security-1314458965
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Amalek
Highly decorated HP warrior
11:32 PM on 12/13/2011
undefined
photo
drbob601
Soylent Green is People
photo
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Hank10303
Reality Check
03:15 PM on 12/07/2011
Norquist has is not an elected official, he has no job in Washington government and he has no responsibility for the programs and ideas he is pushing. He has an audience because he has money, a rich kid born with a silver spoon that only wants his way regardless of the effect on the average American. Why are journalist, other than Fox Noise, seeking his opinion on policy matters?
photo
aljonanadjosmom
Gold stars for everyone!
03:16 PM on 12/07/2011
Correct!!!! He should have as much say as you and I.
photo
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Hank10303
Reality Check
05:26 PM on 12/07/2011
Exactly, talk to the representatives, write letters to congress and vote. But, the MSM should not be seeking his input as if he were an economics professor.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
l78lancer
Wisdom is the principal thing
07:04 PM on 12/07/2011
He was tapped back in the 1980s by Ronald Reagan to develop the tax strategy that has the GOP handcuffed now. No one along the way ever told them that maybe they shoud review the efficacy of that strategy. That's why he's still sought out by the media. He has no official office but had a lot of power imputed to him.
03:14 PM on 12/07/2011
Grover is going to be on at 6 a.m either central or eastern time on cnbc tomorrow morning. He is going to discuss taxes. Obama should ask him what he should do about taxes then go to Boehner and tell him he has talked to Grover.

Grover RULES!!!!
03:23 PM on 12/07/2011
I wish they would have a call in when Grover is on there.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
booker52
avid reader
02:45 PM on 12/07/2011
Why should anyone care what Grover Norquist a paid lobbyist thinks???? I know I don't and I am a tax payer.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
l78lancer
Wisdom is the principal thing
02:29 PM on 12/07/2011
"When the payroll tax cut was first introduced at the end of 2010, there was no talk about how it would be offset. Instead, it was passed as part of an agreement to extend the Bush tax cut for an additional two years. The estimated $860 billion price tag was simply put on the books.

So why not do the same now, when the price tag is significantly lower -- $185 billion to reduce the employee’s share from 4.2 percent to 3.1 percent of wages, along with other tax policy changes -- and Republicans have, as a matter of ideological principle, argued that tax cuts pay for themselves?"
---------------------------------------------------->

Great questioning. Where the answer lies has little to do with whether or not it's paid for because based on 2010's events that's irrelevant. The issue is more about political positioning. Although tax cuts are claimed by the right as a conservative construct in this scenario in the short term this particular cut will help taxpayers. But coming from the dems it gives the appearance that the republicans have lost one of their talking points. Rather than move forward with something that they have propose themselves in the past thethe repubs would rather obstruct since they can't get the political credit.

This is precisely one of the reasons that John McCain pointed out the repubs are "getting picked apart."

Just another version of the Party of "NO" at work.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bugweed
02:27 PM on 12/07/2011
Look children, congress and the president just took out another massive loan that they expect you to pay back, while daddy and mommy celebrate the fact that the chump change in our paychecks will allow us to buy one more mini van load of junk at Wal Mart.

I employ eight people, where's my bank bailout?
I employ eight people, where's my payroll tax cut?
I employ eight people, where my loan interest loans?
03:16 PM on 12/07/2011
Could your business survive without buyers?
photo
Cameron Hoppe
Where's your evidence?
04:47 PM on 12/07/2011
"Look children, congress and the president just took out another massive loan that they expect you to pay back..."

Actually, they expect it will never have to be paid back.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
l78lancer
Wisdom is the principal thing
02:21 PM on 12/07/2011
"He and other conservatives said that if spending offsets do not accompany the tax cut, it would be harder for Democrats to argue against other such tax cuts, including a repatriation holiday on corporate taxes."
------------------------------------------------------>

That's an outright lie. The payroll tax goes right back into the economy because the vast majoriy of individual earners can't afford to just sit on it. The other taxes, like coroporate get posted to the bottom line, wind up in earnings and may never get turned around. That is the whole issue regarding the effectiveness - or lack of - in corporate tax cuts creating jobs.

Herm Cain would have said, "it's apples and oranges."
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Benny Belloes
As long as brakes cost more than trainmen
02:04 PM on 12/07/2011
When the congress and senate members are sworn into office they swear to support and defend the constitution of the United States of America and swear allegiants to its people. So why are these members who swear support for Mr. Norquist and his organizations positions not brought up on treason charges? Do these people reach into their jacket pocket to pull out a little Norquist bobble head doll and not a small book containing the constitution like members who support the people of this country?
photo
aljonanadjosmom
Gold stars for everyone!
03:21 PM on 12/07/2011
We need to vote them out. Please, please can we vote them out?!!!
franklinturner
In the end, only kindness matters. --Jewel
01:13 PM on 12/07/2011
I saw a clip yesterday of a younger and less orange Boehner, and Norquist was in the background then too. Yeah, that's sure some "random person," as Boehner referred to him. Just some randon person who happens to be a powerful DC lobbyist, that almost all Republicans in Congress have sworn their loyalty to. Nothing to see here ... move along.

Random? Norquist has been skulking around Washington for years. Imagine the outrage from Fox "News" Land if almost all of the Democratic members of Congress had sworn their loyalty to George Soros. It would be a "Breaking News Alert" for months.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
citizen of the universe
Look! A Shepards Beak Whale
01:09 PM on 12/07/2011
Republicans are clueless when having to pay for things, this is what they know - Put it on the credit card and let someone else worry about it, but reserve the right to b***h about it to anyone who will listen.
franklinturner
In the end, only kindness matters. --Jewel
01:05 PM on 12/07/2011
Just let Bush's non-job-creating wartime tax cuts expire and let the payroll tax cut go too. And how did making $200,000 a year or $250,000 in combined family income ever come to be viewed as middle class anyway? If you're making that much, you can afford to pay a few % points more. I'll pay more at tax time, if it will get wealthy people and millionaires and billionaires to do the same. What has this country come to that a lobbyist ... sorry ... "some random person" calls the shots.
04:31 PM on 12/07/2011
A decade ago when my husband and I made half that much a year, we lived really, REALLY well. Anyone making that kind of money can pay a little more in taxes. If not; well, they are just really, REALLY bad at managing money!
franklinturner
In the end, only kindness matters. --Jewel
09:41 AM on 12/09/2011
Totally agree ... fanned.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cgin
01:03 PM on 12/07/2011
Teapublicans have again outsmarted themselves. If they propose no offset for the payroll tax cut, they’ll be deservingly hammered by their own constituents for increasing the debt that they claim to care about.