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Indefinite Military Detention Of U.S. Citizens Is A Win For Terrorists, Former Admiral Says

Mccain Levin

First Posted: 12/12/11 04:00 PM ET Updated: 12/12/11 05:35 PM ET

WASHINGTON -- A measure that Congress will likely pass this week allowing indefinite detentions of Americans by the U.S. military will mark a significant loss in the war on terrorism, says a retired admiral who ran the Navy legal system.

The National Defense Authorization Act, passed by the Senate just over a week ago after a heated debate, includes a provision that requires the military to hold foreign-born terrorism suspects, and also lets the military grab U.S. citizens for indefinite detention.

The House and Senate are expected to release the final legislation as soon as late Monday, and in spite of a personal lobbying effort by President Obama, it is expected to include the controversial language.

To Ret. Adm. John Hutson, who was Judge Advocate General of the Navy from 1997 to 2000 and is dean emeritus of the University of New Hampshire School of Law, the idea that the United States is chipping away at one of its fundamental principles of civilian law enforcement is a win for terrorists.

"The enemy is just laughing over this, because they will have gotten another victory," Hutson told The Huffington Post. "There'll be one more victory. There won't be any bloodshed or immediate bloodshed, there's not a big explosion, except in a metaphorical sense, but it is a victory nonetheless for the enemy. And it's a self-inflicted wound."

Proponents of the measure, including the top members of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.), see it very differently -- as a commonsense step to give the military the legal authority it needs to fight the unconventional war on terrorism without treating would-be attackers as common criminals.

"There's a fundamental principle in that we don't want to criminalize a national security issue," McCain told reporters on Capitol Hill last week. "Any enemy combatant is an enemy combatant," he added, specifying that it does not make a difference under the bill if the suspect is an American citizen, except that the military has the choice of releasing citizens to law enforcement.

McCain was not willing to budge on letting the armed forces imprison Americans indefinitely, although he said the conference committee working out differences between the House and Senate versions of the bill would try to address FBI concerns that the bill would bar civilian authorities from investigating such cases.

"If the military has exclusive jurisdiction, then how does it work if you've got somebody who gets off a plane?" McCain asked. "You could say, 'Oh no, we've got to wait till the military gets here.' That's a legitimate concern."

The White House has threatened to veto the bill over the detainee provisions, and an administration official confirmed that President Obama called lawmakers personally to lobby for changes.

It's not clear that Obama's concerns are the same as Hutson's, or those of civil libertarians.

Besides Hutson's 28 years in the military justice system, he counted himself a conservative and Republican who "didn't vote for a Democrat for dogcatcher" until he became worried about the direction of the country and backed Obama in 2008.

He thinks Obama should be very concerned about the detainee provisions, and explained why passage of them would be a victory for terrorists, who he argued cannot beat the United States on the battlefield. Instead, he said terrorists have to focus their attacks and violence on getting the United States to beat itself. And infringing on its own liberties is a step in that direction, he said.

"In this war, the enemy doesn't have to win," Hutson said. "They can cause us to do things we wouldn't otherwise do, such as indefinite detentions, in the name of fighting a war," he said, noting that the country has already subjected itself to invasive scrutiny that would not have been tolerated before Sept. 11, 2001.

In the case of the defense bill, the detention provisions would raise key questions about basic legal concepts that have long underpinned guarantees of freedom in America, including the habeas corpus right to contest being jailed and the Posse Comitatus Act passed after the Civil War to limit the military's role in law enforcement.

"This is an asymmetric war. In asymmetric wars, you want to pit your greatest strength against the enemy's greatest weakness," Hutson said. "Our great strengths are our ideals and our system of justice."

"As it turns out, our enemies' greatest weakness is that they are bereft of ideals," he added. "If we can maintain our ideals, our sense of justice, in the face of this, we can win. What the enemy, what the terrorists want to do -- because they know they can't beat us militarily -- [is] they can try to change us. They can cause us to become more like them, and for them, that's victory."

The reason why, he argues, is that if the United States cannot portray itself as the holder of loftier ideals, then it is much harder to convince the rest of the world to stay on its side -- and it's harder to fight wars because even allies are less cooperative.

"Who's going to surrender to the United Sates if they think they're going to be detained indefinitely without a trial? Is anybody going to give up?" he asked. "Who's going to say, 'You know, maybe the United States isn't as bad as we think it is, and maybe it's al Qaeda and the Taliban who are the bad guys, and I'm going to side with the good guys?'"

In the nearer term, there's a large practical hurdle to military policing of America, Hutson notes -- that it makes the military focus on legal issues instead of fighting the war.

"It takes the eye of the military off the ball, off it's primary mission, to ask it to investigate, detain and prosecute terrorists," said Hutson, who now works with the group Human Rights First.

"We've had over 400 terrorism prosecutions since 9/11, and essentially, you're asking the military to do those prosecutions," he said. "That requires a great deal of resource, a great deal of experience and expertise, neither of which the military has."

Some argue that giving the military the lead helps save lives and make the country safer because the armed forces can act quickly without having to worry about the same level of criminal legal standards as police and prosecutors.

"Even if that argument is true in the short run, it's certainly not true in the long run," he said.

"I was dean in New Hampshire, where the motto is live free or die. The rest of that phrase, live free or die, is because there are things worse than death," Hutson said. "This kind of dramatic change to who we are as a nation, who we are as people, is not something that you can just sort of rhetorically say, 'Well, it's going to save lives'...

"It's going to cost lives." he said, "it's going to cost a way of life."

MIchael McAuliff covers Congress and politics for The Huffington Post. Talk to him on Facebook.

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WASHINGTON -- A measure that Congress will likely pass this week allowing indefinite detentions of Americans by the U.S. military will mark a significant loss in the war on terrorism, says a retired a...
WASHINGTON -- A measure that Congress will likely pass this week allowing indefinite detentions of Americans by the U.S. military will mark a significant loss in the war on terrorism, says a retired a...
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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ChasG 01:08 PM on 12/13/2011
There is an information disconnect going on with this law.  The fact that it was passed by an overwhelming majority in the Senate, coupled with the fact that I have been unable to find any articles about this from main stream media, does not square up with the assertion that this law will take away our constitutional rights of habeus corpus, as the rabid blogs are suggesting.

For example, blogs  Read More...
10:33 PM on 12/15/2011
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
~ Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
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10:20 PM on 12/18/2011
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn has a good point, but it's more disturbing to see victims damning themselves. Nobody deserves to have to kill or be killed. Aleksandr seems to think since he left the oven on his grandmother in the other room deserves to die from the house fire. What?
07:24 PM on 12/15/2011
I agree with what Hutson has to say, but I don't have any faith in Obama. In fact, he probably supports the worst of it.
05:25 PM on 12/15/2011
Al qaeda should get a mockup of an aircraft carrier with a big banner : "Mission Accomplished"
12:58 PM on 12/15/2011
This is a preemptive move by our "elite" who see the end in sight. They know we're broke. They know it's impossible to pay off the $100 trillion+ in future entitlements. They are protecting themselves against the revolutionaries on both sides of the political spectrum when the house of cards collapses. They can deem you a "terrorist" for opposing anything they do, and lock you up forever without trial. Want small government? Have food stored? Upset you are no longer receiving welfare? Own guns?

Chilling indeed
10:45 AM on 12/15/2011
Instead of hiring the masterinventor to develop improved methods of reducing terrorism they in washington just brutally trample our cival rights in pagan dictator style this is not good enough.
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10:13 PM on 12/18/2011
pagan dictator style? lol. what improved methods would you grant the government agencies? anti-terrorism children's cartoons? wait... anti-terrorism mcdonalds happy meal toys?
08:58 AM on 12/19/2011
No suskie thats kids stuff your talking to the real deal here but I do it for a living so I need contracts to continue my great work all money back guarantee or credited to other great inventions I have or will concieve for you in business partnerships. I dont even get senators pay but I shape all the national policies I am the historic high federal due to my dominance of invention conceptions only 4 men in 207 years have accomplished this feat. See my website at www.inventingconsultantcreator.net
06:26 AM on 12/15/2011
Simpler would be ANKLE BRACELETS WITH GPS, NOT REMOVABLE...Can it be done sanely and responsibly, of course but it suits potentially repressive governments to have detention centers per Castro, Chavez, Stalin, Hitler and the like...get the picture...
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Sock Monkey
Deceive. Inveigle. Obfuscate. The DC mantra.
04:01 PM on 12/14/2011
I'm just glad to see that both sides of the aisle have done everything within their power to make prostitutes finally acceptable.

It's about time.
04:44 AM on 12/14/2011
And banksters...
06:27 AM on 12/15/2011
And Oilsters, insider info to themselves and much more self serving.
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04:20 AM on 12/14/2011
For the first time I can see clearly the rationale behind the 2nd amendment, which guarantees Americans the rights to bear arms.
How can population defend itself , when government goes a little way to far ?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
LiberalBuzz
Voting republican is voting against America.
09:21 PM on 12/13/2011
It's not just a win for terrorists who are laughing at us, but also for dictators around the world laughing at us as well for out gigantic hypocrisy of invading countries screeching about spreading democracy while doing just the opposite in America.

AND then saying,  HEY you do the same thing in America so don't be giving us any shiite about what we are doing. You disappear people all the time now. You send out your military and that is the last time anyone sees an American citizen. No counsel, no contact...DISAPPEARED!

Remember when we raised hell about South American countries disappearing it's citizens and then the women held big strikes demanding to know what happened to their husbands, fathers and sons?

Where the hell do we get off preaching democracy and then passing a bill like this.

The great Magna Carta's major founding principle was that the king would no longer have the right to just pick people up and make them disappear. 

As I keep saying.

Our Founding Fathers must be looking down at us from above saying.

"Why did we even bother?"
02:28 AM on 12/15/2011
It's fascism according to objective standards.
07:00 PM on 12/15/2011
Great comment! Nobody could've said it better, Ther whole US Bill of Rights is, indeed, based on the 1215 Magna Carta, which limited the power of monarchs to imprison people on a whim.

Too bad we have a President and a Congress who don't give a damn about these God-given rights.
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10:16 PM on 12/18/2011
And unfortunately the god is only included to keep the masses going, thinking faith will save them from anything. People are taught to have faith by others thinking it's for their benefit. Oh the irony
08:54 PM on 12/13/2011
Hi friends,
I thought you'd like to know about this petition to Occupy the United States Government. you can read details by going to:

http://www.change.org/petitions/occupy-united-states-government-government-officals-to-stop-foreclosures-pay-back-75-of-monies-earned?share_id=CePQVDcdrN&
12:27 PM on 12/14/2011
I'm sorry, but this is my main gripe with many associated with the 'Occupy' moniker. We're talking about the government passing laws that will allow them to detain any one of us without due process. And you want to spring some half cocked idea on how to take money from politicians and use that money to create businesses run by politicians. As long as we depend on the government to fix our problems, we'll keep having bills like The National Defense Authorization Act shoved down our throat. Seriously, what's wrong with you people? How far does it have to go before you realize more government is the problem, not the answer?
08:56 PM on 12/14/2011
Brent , you didn't read what I wrote, I talk about smaller government , but I also want would like to see the politicians that are in power to pay us back and forfeit their pensions and health care.
02:20 PM on 12/13/2011
My problem is I dont see an improvement in the justice system by this action just regression and potential cover up of the insufficency of evidence and railroading. As the worlds leader in improving our legal system in my 57 years has been geared to create the finest system in the world. We have to remain vigalent against false whitness bearers and increase penelties for it. Some say there will be losses in secretiveness about intellegence gathering methods but I say a hearing to determine sufficency of evidence must be held although a panel of judges may make and report with reguards to the sufficency keeping methods secret also witnesses may be secret to protect safety after railroading has been ruled out. This should apply to all criminal trials and the credibility of witnesses should have expanded investigations jurys should have sectarian hate crime investigations and scrotenizing Foreign nationals and organized crime indevidules need aditional investigation when attacking credible americans. Money as a motive needs to be adressed as a motive more frequently
01:49 PM on 12/13/2011
This legislation has nothing to do with the “War on Terror,” a worn-out and stock excuse for the past ten years to condone nearly everything our corrupt and plutocratic government has set out to achieve, and EVERYTHING to do with eroding our Fourth Amendment rights. Along with the Patriot Act and the 1033 Program the Powers that Be have had this on their to-do list from the very get-go. Their mission?? A slow and stealthy subjugation of the American People, a police state (as if we’re not one already) and an America where “Newspeak” is the official language. “Oceania” here we come!
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tia444222
01:40 PM on 12/13/2011
I think everyone should sign this, even if they don't believe it.....http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-ndaa-section-1031-citizen-imprisonment-law-today
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TomTheSeal
Represent our wishes; best interests are arguable
04:50 PM on 12/13/2011
Thanks for the link.

I emailed my Congressman and Senators. Can't wait to get their form letters from these treyters !
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Sock Monkey
Deceive. Inveigle. Obfuscate. The DC mantra.
04:02 PM on 12/14/2011
I got mine last week. They were a lovely shade of " generic." Neither one of our senators in Washington even address the original premise of my email.
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TomTheSeal
Represent our wishes; best interests are arguable
04:52 PM on 12/13/2011
Also, proud to be your FIRST fan and FAVE. thnx
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tjdwill02
There is no free lunch
01:39 PM on 12/13/2011
"The enemy is just laughing over this, because they will have gotten another victory," ******* they really laugh at us when the walk unimpeded across our southern borders, while we're disrobing at the airport !