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2012 Presidential Election: Voters Feeling Dispirited As Presidential Campaign Unreels

PAULINE ARRILLAGA, ALLEN G. BREED and ADAM GELLER   12/31/11 05:00 PM ET  AP

A decade ago, customers flocked to the store in the converted fire station on the east side of Toledo, Ohio, in pursuit of Old Glory.

Howard Pinkley established Flags Sales & Repair in 1960, and runs it with his daughter, Wendy Beallas. In days after Sept. 11, 2001, customers lined up outside the door. Americans wanted to show their pride, their determination, their Americanism.

It's all a fading memory now.

These days, folks are focused on paying bills. A new flag is a luxury, and the unvarnished patriotism of 10 years ago has been replaced by disgust with government.

A recent Wednesday saw just two walk-in customers. Father and daughter have cut their payroll, but talk openly about whether they should give up. They're no less dispirited than their neighbors.

"I go home and I refuse to listen to the news because it's frustrating," Beallas says. "To me, it's not coming together and getting things done."

When Ronald Reagan ran for re-election, his advertisements boasted that it was morning in America. Nearly three decades later, as another presidential campaign begins, it feels like twilight – or, if it is morning, it is the kind of gray winter daybreak when the sun is only a rumor and only an optimist clings to hope that the clouds will break.

Listen to Americans in three closely contested states and you'll hear the same plaintive echoes, not just about politics or the upcoming election, but about the unsettling predicament that is America in 2011.

Republicans or Democrats, liberal or conservative, young or old, they lack confidence – in the country's potential to be great again, in their elected leaders' ability to do the right thing, in the economy and in themselves.

It's not that they feel incapable of doing what needs to be done, as much as they are uncertain about what that right thing is and whether anything they can do will have any real impact.

In Mount Airy, N.C., where a quaint Main Street is merely a reminder of better days: "We need to get back to the `60s and the `50s, and we need to get ourselves back to where we used to be – standing on our own two feet," says long-haul trucker Harry J. Moore, 57, punching a beefy fist into his open left hand to punctuate each syllable. "We're losing our pride. Our pride's gone away."

In North Las Vegas,, Nev., where the bursting of the housing bubble has forced hard choices: "People have lost a lot of spirit," says Elmer Chowning, 70, who had hoped to slow down in his golden years, but is instead still working in real estate while raising his 8-year-old granddaughter.

In Lima, Ohio, where people have seen America's industrial might falter: "I'm just waiting for China or somebody to take us over. That's the way it seems," says Becky Jamison, 36, who has watched her 18-year-old son look unsuccessfully for work for months. "Because we're just falling apart."

___

If you look, you can find optimism in Ohio.

The Armstrong Air & Space Museum is in Wapakoneta, hometown of Neil Armstrong, the first man to walk on the moon. It stands as a monument to an earlier, more hopeful time, and there are visitors who are convinced that those times can come again.

To Stephen Andrasik, a foam salesman from Indianapolis who has stopped in to the museum on his way back home from a business trip, the U.S. remains resilient, facing problems that can be solved by new leaders in Washington who will allow Americans to live up to their potential.

"I think we're still the same people we were back then," says Andrasik. He studies a display case filled with inventions that were spinoffs of the space program, everything from fireproof clothing to battery-powered hand tools.

"I'm assuming it's going to get better as long as the American people have the ability to do what they want, to invent things, to start new businesses, we'll be as great as we've always been."

But standing before a model of the Apollo 11 command module at the edge of the museum's parking lot, Jake Retter, a chimney cleaner from Blissfield, Mich., notes the irony of a country that once raced a communist rival to put a man on the moon and now relies on China to buy its debt.

Rather than pursuing national goals, politicians chase their own divisive agendas, he says. A nation built on hard work and thrift has lost sight of what really matters.

"This country's been falling apart for the last 50 years. It's taken time," Retter says. "It's not that capitalism is failing us. It's that we're failing capitalism."

For many years, this region provided the muscle of American capitalism. Its pride in its talent for making things is evident in Toledo place names such as Jeep Parkway and the Veteran's Glass City Bridge.

The long, slow decline of factory work has been a source of constant sorrow in the Rust Belt. Recent stirrings such as announcements by Chrysler and General Motors that they will add 1,400 new jobs at their plants in Toledo, and Ford's plans to ramp up engine production in Lima have offered some reason to hope.

"I can definitely feel like the forward momentum is there" – jobs at the union hall are picking up, says Kurt Kaufman, 31. A union electrician, he worked steadily until 2006. He has since spent as much as nine months between jobs.

Still, he says, "I don't think it's ever going to be as good as it was around here."

But a bad economy, some say, is not at the core of what ails northwestern Ohio, and America. There have been hard times before, and there will be again. The real problem, they say, is in Americans and their leaders.

"What's different from this and the Great Depression is that the moral fiber has changed," says Russ Terry, a retired postal carrier who lives outside Lima and has stopped in for a morning break at The Meeting Place on Market, a coffee and sandwich shop downtown. "The reason we can't handle this is we don't have the moral backbone, the stick-to-it-tiveness, the collective people working together."

Terry, who describes his politics as very conservative, blames the federal government for printing too much money in an attempt to stimulate the economy. But at its heart, the country's failings reflect the will of individuals, he says. "The government is just a reflection of the people, is it not?"

Just down the road from Toledo's GM plant, Martin Ridener says his worries are based on more than 20 years of running a 16-unit apartment building he once thought would pay for his retirement. Instead, a building that used to generate a steady income is now barely covering its expenses, as many tenants lose jobs, fall behind on rent and move out.

Ridener, who is 75 and votes Republican, can't imagine voting for President Barack Obama given the state of the economy, but he can't see how Republicans taking over the White House will make things any better.

"I don't consider either side wrong in what they're doing. What I resent is that every Democrat thinks completely one way and every Republican thinks another way. They're afraid to talk over it and do what's best for the country."

Across town, most of the red-checked tables are full at the Hungarian hot dog purveyor Tony Packo's. But between bites, Pat Shupe, a 72-year-old homemaker, says she worries about the world her 3-year-old granddaughter will inherit with seemingly limited opportunities.

"I absolutely see no light at the end of the tunnel until something is done in this country to equalize opportunity for people to get a job," Shupe says.

While the 2008 election gave her hope that the country could work through its problems, the gridlock in Washington has robbed her of that brief optimism.

"I think we're just ruining ourselves," Shupe says, "destroying ourselves."

Not everyone shares that bleak outlook.

Terri Leary's employer eliminated her job as a senior housing manager in 2009, six months after her husband lost work in construction management. Leary, 44, was convinced that her lack of a college degree had made her expendable, so she enrolled at Owens Community College's campus in Perrysburg.

Days before her graduation ceremony in early December, she sat in the commons area of College Hall and described the tough times of the past few years as an opportunity, an outlook entirely decoupled from politics.

The job losses and belt-tightening, she is convinced, were "a good thing. It teaches the kids very valuable life lessons, you know, make good with what you have. ... We learned we can do more with less and be just as happy."

There are lessons to be learned, agrees 29-year-old Erin Tupper.

She and her husband, Marc, have much to be thankful for. They have been married just a week, they have a home of their own (albeit modest and worth less than it used to be), and Marc prizes his job as a police officer. But they look around, and see evidence of an America that has lost its way.

Erin, recalling her father's pride in his work as a truck driver hauling new Jeeps off the Toledo assembly line, says she and her friends talk now of employers who pile on hours while treating workers as expendable.

When she drives near her childhood home, she is dismayed by the big homes on what was once farmland, a sign of misplaced values centered on instant gratification and overspending. People seem to be more concerned with themselves and their own narrow interests than in working together for the common good.

"We're learning a lesson," she says. And if we don't, "we'll be right back to where we were."

___

"Your Community of Choice," reads the motto on signs spread around the city of North Las Vegas, and for a while it was.

Once among the fastest-growing places in the country, the city saw thousands of stucco and tile-roof homes sprout up to accommodate retirees and a middle-class workforce coming for jobs in the booming casino and construction industries. The city added workers, increased revenue and embarked on ambitious plans for redevelopment projects to keep pace with the growth.

Today the community is deeply in debt, cutting programs, laying off employees, fending off a possible state takeover and weighing still more difficult decisions that will directly affect the 220,000 people who live here.

Talk to people on the street, in the library, at the recreation center, and seemingly everyone knows someone who is out of work. If they own a home, its value has decreased substantially and their neighborhoods are filled with forsaken properties. You can't watch TV without seeing local commercials for help with loan modifications or from lawyers pledging to keep the banks from your assets.

The Neighborhood Recreation Center sits in the old part of town, a lifeline for senior citizens in need and young people whose parents can't afford fancy gyms. Over the summer, struggling to plug an overall $30 million budget deficit for the fiscal year and unable to reach a deal with police unions over cuts, the North Las Vegas City Council voted to close the center.

People who consider it a second home revolted, descending on council meetings with signs and petitions in hand.

The facility was saved only after the local police union agreed to defer for six months a cost-of-living increase and distribution of accumulated holiday pay. That was enough to keep the center open through next summer.

Recreation supervisor Neil Gallant sits at a desk littered with spreadsheets as he works to find grant money or other ways to subsidize the center's costs. He talks of his seniors feeling "abandoned" when the City Council voted to close the center and of a sense of disconnection between elected leaders and those they serve.

The politicians don't know the people, Gallant says. "They don't see them."

That sentiment was echoed by so many in North Las Vegas, but especially Gallant's struggling older clientele. They are women like Nita Hargis and Maxine Delisle, who live on meager Social Security checks and depend on the center's $1.50 hot lunch (rising to $3 come January) and the companionship they find in ceramics class.

One Thursday, instead of molding candy dishes, they vented about the state of their community and the country, and the overarching theme was one of neglect – a feeling that every level of government is ignoring their needs and has failed them, despite so many promises to do otherwise.

For Hargis, a 65-year-old who has lived almost her entire life in North Las Vegas and worked a variety of jobs – painter, gift shop clerk, remodeler – recent efforts to attempt to modify her home loan left her exasperated and in worse shape than she started.

"They ran me around for nine months. They ruined my credit. I even got one of these government guys that was supposed to help me, and all he did was say, `Well, call `em back, call `em back.' He never did anything to help me," she says.

For Delisle, it's the glaring imbalance between people like her and those in government that leaves her feeling alienated. She notes that there hasn't been a cost-of-living increase in Social Security for three years, yet it took months of difficult negotiations to get the local police union to agree to forgo its adjustment for just six months.

Nineteen-year-old Oscar Corral works the front desk at the recreation center. He's a philosophical young man with an optimistic smile and outlook. Neither of his parents graduated from high school, and yet his mom is an accounting manager at a local cab company while his father works construction. His dad was laid off not long ago but soon found another job and is "hanging on a thread."

"There's this thing about humans. When they're pushed, I guess they go into survival mode and they really work hard," says Corral, who studies audio production at The Art Institute of Las Vegas.

He likens the many problems facing Americans right now to climbing a mountain. "From far away," he says, "it looks impossible. But when you start getting close up, you see there's cracks here that I can climb up and you just attack it little by little. ... Sometimes we just get caught up in the big problem."

It's true that in North Las Vegas, as is the case nationally, the problems are so big it's hard not to get caught up in them. Short-term fixes and eventual union concessions kept the city afloat this fiscal year, but already officials are predicting a $15.5 million deficit for the next budget cycle.

Says Elmer Chowning, the real estate agent: "We're a fast society. We want things to happen. And this is a thing that is lingering, lingering, lingering."

It's no wonder, he adds, that people have taken to streets and parks in the Occupy Wall Street protests.

"There is a tremendous feeling of camaraderie," he says, but also "hurt and madness."

A couple of weeks ago, North Las Vegas and its residents did their best to put all of that aside for a time. Hundreds gathered on an unusually blustery evening to celebrate the grand opening of a nine-story City Hall – a project launched when the city was flush – and watch as the town Christmas tree was lit.

It was a night meant to represent a fresh start, the promise of tomorrow.

Nita Hargis was there with some of her friends from the recreation center, wondering aloud why the city felt the need to hand out commemorative tiles and paperweights and what was the cost to taxpayers. The Chownings brought their granddaughter, and stood in the back as a children's choir sang Christmas carols and ballerinas danced on the shiny new granite floor.

Soon they, and everyone, were joining in the carols, applauding the entertainers, sipping hot chocolate.

Soon, their worries seemed to fade. At least for one night, anyway.

___

By comparison, Mount Airy is a bit of fantasy in the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains.

The hometown of Andy Griffith, it is Mayberry – America as it used to be, or as we would like to believe it used to be, when the nation's industrial and military might was unquestioned and seemed unbounded; when a man, even one without a high school diploma, could earn enough to own a house, buy a new car every couple of years and send his kids to college for a better life than even he'd enjoyed. Stroll down Main Street, and you expect to meet characters like Aunt Bea, Goober and Floyd the barber.

They're not here. Instead, you'll find businessmen and women struggling to survive the recession by selling nostalgia, and real people eager to buy.

"They're looking for what we wish that times could be again," says Debbie Miles, who moved here with her husband from southern Indiana five years ago and opened Mayberry on Main, where the walls and shelves are lined with items like Aunt Bea's Kerosene Cucumbers and Otis's Moonshine Jelly. "That's the main thing that we hear. `We wish that it could be like that again – like it was on the show.'"

Business is down about 10 percent from a couple of years ago. But Miles can't afford that kind of pessimism.

"You know, if you're an optimistic person, you think there's nowhere to go but up," she says with a laugh. "It probably does try everyone, but I think you still have to be optimistic, you know? That's what Americans are supposed to do – think for the future."

Darrel Miles – who, like his wife, is a registered Democrat but did not vote for Obama – finds it a bit harder to be hopeful.

"I think they need to turn the whole upside down in Washington and shake it real good," says Miles, who worked 32 years for a company that made soda and ice dispensers. "I think we might have the wrong government, the wrong people trying to fix certain things. There's too many hands in the fire, as you would say. I mean they can't even come to agreement even within their own parties to fix certain things, you know?"

Across the street, at Snappy Lunch, business is down 20 percent or 30 percent over a couple of years ago, says Mary Dowell, whose husband, Charles, has owned the restaurant since 1960.

"We still have tourists who come in, but the bus groups have dropped a little bit," Dowell says over the sizzle of meat for the diner's "famous pork chop sandwich." "Last year, I did have to give everybody a day a week off, because we were so slow. And we'll probably do that this year."

On this sunny afternoon, Jennifer Brown stands outside Snappy Lunch and peers through the window. Her parents, Steve and Diane, both have good jobs in manufacturing. But the 27-year-old Cleveland-area woman, who has an associate's degree in office management, can't find permanent employment.

"I did telemarketing. I worked at a park. I even worked at a county fair for a week," she says. "I'm doing side jobs, some retail. But nothing that I wound up being able to keep."

Her mother, whose company was recently bought out by a European firm, can't help feeling that the U.S. is in decline.

"Because the average person can't graduate from high school and find a job," she says. "It's easier for somebody to come from another country and get started than it is for us who grew up here."

"Mmmm," her daughter nods in agreement. Jennifer Brown motions to the street scene around her.

"This is where it needs to go back to," she says. "Like the American dream. America, not the socialist stuff that's going on. And where you could just, you can get a job."

Around the corner from the bustle of Main Street, in front of the Andy Griffith Playhouse and Museum, Sheriff Andy Taylor and son Opie stride in bronze, hand in hand, rods over their shoulders, toward an imaginary fishing hole. A plaque at their feet reads, "a simpler time."

Inside the museum, the gauges on two vintage "ethyl" gas pumps are frozen at 17.9 cents a gallon. Oil worker Jeff Zwicker of Vacaville, Calif., poses for a photo with museum founder (and Griffith childhood friend) Emmett Forrest.

Zwicker, 55, a 20-year Air Force veteran who served on cargo planes in Operation Desert Storm, is worried about the deficit and American indebtedness to foreign creditors such as China. But if Washington can get those things under control – and he's confident it can – "I think the future's great for our country."

"We're a great nation," he says. "We have a lot of smart people here, and if we put all the smart people on this and get it going. But you've gotta get serious about it, you know? You've gotta really do it. You've gotta WANT to do it."

Forrest isn't so sure. The 84-year-old former electric company vice president says Obama has "taken us down the path to absolute ruin" and, if he's re-elected, "there'll be no recovery from it."

"Ten or 20 years ago, I think we were the shining star of the world, and our star has dimmed quite a bit," he says. "I guess I'm just cornpone patriotic. I love this country and hate to see it go down."

But to Pablo Hernandez, these are good times.

Hernandez, 45, came here from Mexico in 1987. He traveled the country, picking apples, oranges, tomatoes – "everything" – before landing a job at a chicken-processing plant in nearby Dobson.

For the past five years, he and his wife, Salustria, 33, have operated La Sierrita Tienda Mexicana in a strip mall on a bypass outside downtown. They sell everything from black beans and dried chilies to CDs from groups like Los Rancheros and Fortunato y sus Cometas.

Sure, Hernandez is concerned about the recent wave of anti-immigrant sentiment in places like Alabama and South Carolina. The couple's two daughters – Lesley, 13, and Nadia, 6 – were born here, but the parents have their green cards. But he is not a pessimist.

The American Dream "is still alive for me," he says, as Nadia reads a picture book beneath a ceiling dangling with colorful pinatas. "Because I'm still here, you know."

___

Pauline Arrillaga reported from North Las Vegas, Nev., Allen G. Breed reported from Mount Airy, N.C., and Adam Geller reported from Toledo and Lima, Ohio. They can be reached at features(at)ap.org.

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BinghamLofts
09:59 AM on 01/03/2012
this is the discontent of populism.
08:34 PM on 01/02/2012
This isn't about the GOP...the Right....the Left....it is about a system so corrupt I'm not sure how we get out of it. You need to know how we got into this mess and you need to know it wasn't just the Right....it was all of them in Congress, the banks and academia. Get yourselves a copy of Charles Ferguson's "Inside Job". Either rent it on Netflix or just buy it. You will want your friends to see it .
photo
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Crisdean Wulver
We've got our priorities screwed up.
11:17 AM on 01/04/2012
Well said, and I completely agree. But I have a solution! Although it may not work.

My solution is to hire an extensive team of professional negotiators to start mediating between the two major parties to try and help resolve their long-standing policy differences. Some negotiations would have to be done in private, but the rest should be done in public on live TV.

The process could be either binding or non-binding. It may work best if it's non-binding. Then everything will be out in the open and people will be able to see for themselves which party is being more toxic and disagreeable.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bill928
micro-bio?
07:07 PM on 01/02/2012
The GOP can't even field a candidate that isn't a multi-milionaire clown. The Dems can't field one who is honest. The congress are a bit of each. So, how is the country suppose to recover when no one is working for the good of the people, by magic?
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freerangevoter
Live Free or Raise Hell
01:09 AM on 01/03/2012
I think Ron Paul is in it to help fix the country. The rest are Washington schlucks.
08:52 AM on 01/03/2012
If Ron Paul runs as a 3rd Party it is proof that he does not have our country's welfare at heart. If you recall that is what Ross Perot did,do you remember the result ? Not pretty.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bill928
micro-bio?
09:26 AM on 01/03/2012
Paul may be the exception. You are right about the rest.
04:50 PM on 01/02/2012
The more crowded our country becomes the more we have to have a greater number of rules/laws to insure our freedoms. But that requires that the laws are enforced. The laws that increase the numbers of citizens are not enforced and we lose jobs and freedom. That concept seems lost on most politicians.

Elections are best won with lots of cash for TV ads, billboards etc.....The citizens have created that situation by becoming a nation of TV watching peoples. The law can be changed illiminating TV ads............or whatever is wrong ....but we need citizens who are engaged in the process In which case the TV ads are worthless.
03:58 PM on 01/02/2012
The article comes close to capturing how we feel but how do we turn it around. Goverment is disfunctional that we can agreed on. Who is the the blame WE ALL ARE. We were high on credit, greed was good, living unsustainable life styles. Eron, savings and loan crisis, and the Las Vegas of the east WALL STREET. We still want an instant fix, it took us years to get where we are, we want to throw the old and poor under the bus, maybe later the babies, and eventually eat each other. This must be a collective solution, greed is not good. You judge a nation by how we treat the old, the sick, and the young. I did vote for Obama not in agreement with a lot that he has done. But this glamoring for the old days the old ways is what got us here. Doing the same thing and expecting different results. It will take several years to get out of this hole we had been digging it deep for decades. There are lessons to learn I hope we have learn them I hope we go forward and not return to the past so we end up in the same place but worse.
08:16 AM on 01/03/2012
In the old days CHURCHes were doing the social welfare instead of the government.
LBJ fixed that. The Great Society taught our poor to sit and wait for a check. TV taught our poor that they did not get enough glamour.

Government handouts helped multiply our poor.

The idea of homeownership for everyone is idiotic. Many people should rent,they are not able to save or plan for repairs,taxes,insurance,or periods of unemployment.

"Affordable Homeownership" is proof that the government does not think things through.
Habitat for Humanity does seem to work.

Think about things you get without work. You like free stuff. Do you appreciate the things you worked and saved for more ?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wickedtwisted2
get a clue, get a life
03:13 PM on 01/02/2012
Well... I can't even finish the article... they have conveniently FORGOTTEN the worst of the 50s and 60s with its INTENSE and ACCEPTED all pro RICH WHITE MALE elistist attitudes... hardly any rights for women, blacks, and no help for the indigent, the mentally ill, and the elderly.
What we NEED is for our ELECTED REPRESTATIVES TO GROW UP, GROW A PAIR, AND GET DOWN TO THE REAL BUSINESS OF WORKING TOGETHER, BIPARTISIAN, TO WORK IT OUT.
If American families have to lose everything they have (and many, many have) then the government representatives can stop their luxiourious methods and work hard, work overtime, to REUNITE THE UNUNITED STATES OF AMERICA. We are PROVING the axiom, "UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL"... and honey, we are as divided as we can get without literally going to war against ourselves. Can you imagine a civil war fought today? Well, IT IS HAPPENING... ONLY OUR WEAPONS ARE OUR WORDS AND IDEALS.
IF YOU THINK A REPUBLICAN CAN LEAD US OUT OF THIS MESS, THEN PLEASE HAVE ONE STEP FORWARD THAT EVERYONE CAN GET BEHIND WITHOUT HAVING TO HOLD THEIR NOSE!
08:33 AM on 01/03/2012
wickedtwisted2-
the rich white males "had a pair"and you resent it. Herman Cain "had a pair" and the left wanted him destroyed.

ENVY and Resentment are features of the left.
If everybody wanted to work ,sweat, and be a success this country would be great again instead of the 3rd World Country with good roads that it has become in 3 years.

Our youth and poverty segment want instant gratification,- free from the government. Their parents taught them the ways of poverty instead of the virtues of work ,saving and thrift.

The public values the opinions of unmarried pregnant "stars" and sports figures instead of individuals that made their fortune by work,time, and ingenuity.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wickedtwisted2
get a clue, get a life
02:11 PM on 01/03/2012
When I was in my twenties... I had red business cards made up that read, "OFFICIAL BALLS CARD". I thought it funny at the time and it did make some pause (especially in job interviews.... I got the jobs... from male interviewers). While I thought it a joke at the time... it was seriously needed as it was the early 70s and things were VERY tough for women, still. It was dangerous, at that time, to be associated with the NOW (National Organization of Women) as it was being taken over by the active lesbian left and that brought on problems you just didn't need association with at the time (sorry to my gay and lesbian friends, but it WAS a problem back then).
I didn't resent hard working white males, but I did resent the fact that I would train man after man only to have them get promoted over me. This went on for YEARS. And when I was sexually assaulted by a male superior, who got fired? Again, the early 70s. I was shamed to not go public as it would have killed my parents, at the time.
I can tell you for a fact, that I was not alone. I knew MANY, MANY women who put up with abuse at work (a laughable showing on MAD MEN, but it was perverse!); but they put up with it as they needed to work.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wickedtwisted2
get a clue, get a life
02:11 PM on 01/03/2012
As far as ENVY AND RESENTMENT BEING FEATURES OF THE LEFT. You are dead wrong. ENVY AND RESENTMENT are emotions of the heart and the head, it has nothing to do with a political persuasion. And frankly I don't know ANYONE, personally, anymore, that can be labeled as LEFT or RIGHT or DEAD CENTER... it depends on the issue and if you can't allow for diversity of thought and the ability to CHANGE THEIR MINDS ONCE THEY GAIN NEW INFORMATION, then you are limiting people.
Enough...
01:18 PM on 01/02/2012
they are becoming dispirited, why?, because the few that are working are paying for the religious order of Welfare and Medicaid, known is religious cycles as the Order of the Perpetual Rest or Saint Laziness. They no longer believe in St. Self-Reliance!
02:03 PM on 01/02/2012
If you include the Wall Street believers in St Petersburg (the economic paradox that says bailouts lead to illogical markets) then I would agree. But it's insincere to just talk about the welfare system for unemployed and ignore the massive corporate welfare system.
03:35 PM on 01/02/2012
mashtoe....Some people receiving Welfare has been in Welfare since the Great Society at least 3 generations...Out of a job, get one, even if it doesnt "honor" your expectations. I have done it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wickedtwisted2
get a clue, get a life
03:17 PM on 01/02/2012
Dear thefacts22.... just how did YOU make YOUR millions? I'd like to know... I know I am one of the struggling... and losing cable is a consideration as it is a luxury. YOU DO REALIZE that a skewed representation only is on these boards because the truly poor don't have this luxury. They're trying to get their daily bread and stay warm and keep a roof over their childrens' heads.
If you have never struggled then you really do not have a clue.
03:33 PM on 01/02/2012
wicked...stop assu/ming.....I am far from a millionaire, but I made provisions. Like cutting my own grass, doing my repairs and my wife has always done the cooking and the cleaning...2 cars only when we were working....cable basic....food and clothes what is on sale....Vacations when we could afford them....The religions of St. Lazines and St. You Owe me are like I said before. St. Lazines...the Order of the Perpetual Rest - St. You Owe me...The Order of the Perpetual Help. Which one do you belong to?
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freerangevoter
Live Free or Raise Hell
01:27 AM on 01/03/2012
I read the book, THE RICHEST MAN IN BABYLON by George S. Classon in 1984 and retired with critical mass 21 years later.

The basic concept is that no matter how little you make you always "Pay Yourself First" 10% right off the top. You put this money aside and NEVER spend it for the rest of your life. Each Dollar becomes a little "soldier" that breeds more soldiers through what Albert Einstein called "The miracle of compound interest".

You use the next 20% to pay your debts. If that won't cover it you call each creditor and work out a plan. The last 70% goes for rent, food, and other living expenses.

The 10% that you set aside should become 15% then 20% as your income increases, but even if it stays at 10%, if you invest it wisely you will have a retirement-sized nest egg within 20 to 40 years even on a low salary. Then, you live on the interest until you pass the remaining soldgiers onto loved ones.

The book, THE MILLIONAIRE NEXT DOOR by Stanley explains that if you buy a used car and drive it for 7-10 years (as most millionaires do) you will save $250,000 over a lifetime compared to folks that buy a new car every 2 years.
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BoshSpong
My micro-bio does not meet HP's guidelines
10:22 AM on 01/02/2012
The root of the deterioration of the our nation can be directly traced to the day when Americans were sold a "pig in a poke" - the idea that we could support our middle class and our civil liberties by replacing the values of common good and community with selfishness and love of profits.

A pseudo-libertarian society where government authority is weak, can function if there is an environment that forms and sustains strong community values; a social system that serves to uphold the common good and rewards social grace and selfless behavior, upholds fairness, justice and a justice system that treats all equally.

Reagan seemed to uphold such a system without its necessary underpinnings. He shifted power and resources to the hands of the wealthiest while shifting the financial responsibility to the shoulders of the middle class and to the nation's credit card.

The result of Reagan's ill-fated strategy has been the decline of of our nation, while the wealthiest have taken their huge untaxed wealth and invested it wherever it produces the highest returns.

We now have a very powerful international ruling class elite that sees no benefit in the existence of a well educated, well sustained, healthy and strong American or European middle class - rather such is now seen as a threat to the powers that be. They prefer the obedient grateful masses of China, India or Brazil.
01:25 PM on 01/02/2012
BoshSpong...what happened? now is Reagan...Did the group advise you not to use the word Bush or race? Europe is socialist, now Spain got rid of the socialists and have gone all the way to the right...The socialist was forced to resign after 8 years of disaster and kick backs and now they have the right, right wing governing....Germany is getting tired of welfare programs, although their were never as big as Spain's programs....The Greens are a bad word in Spain, they destroyed fertile lands, forced the farmers to abandon their fields, solar panels and bird killers rusting in the middle of the fields because they DONT WORK...., and now everyone in that beautiful place is living out of Welfare...and standing in the Church's lines for food, because the government ran out of money by taking everything with them....Great Accomplishments those of Socialism! isnt it?
01:45 PM on 01/02/2012
Spain is a disaster because it's fully of Spanish racist homophobic jerks. They believe in magic and want quick solutions. They don't believe in free markets. And their right wing doesn't believe in free markets either. They will crush the poor's bones to make their bread rather than end welfare to the rich. The socialist in Spain believed in magic as well, they just borrowed and hoped the housing bubble would go forever.

What Spain refuses to accept is that its entire nation must work together. They need to stop chasing dragons of easy money. They need to abandon free trade. They need to focus on local communities and building a sustainable boring economy that just works. End this silly game of chasing higher GDP. Free markets do NOT have governments dedicated to manipulating GDP.

We need boring slow growth and we need economies that value the production of individuals. And strong central government authority will always crush that.
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BoshSpong
My micro-bio does not meet HP's guidelines
01:32 PM on 01/03/2012
The mortgage meltdown that followed our housing bubble was not confined to the US, Spain suffered the pain and is now suffering the sacrifices that must be made in order to absorb the losses that your overlords in Wall Street produced.

Germany is nowhere near giving up its socialist system, your just plain mistaken about that issue, they do not want to use their resources to bail out others, that is understandable.

Greece is another matter entirely - a nation that accepted the idea of no taxes on the wealthy or anyone else and expected to maintain a generous social system reminds one of Reagan's marvelous strategy - for your information Reagan tripled the deficit and doubled the nation's debt - Cheney another one of your patron saints said it best: "Reagan proved that deficits do not matter".

The most successful societies on the planet today are all socialist democracies - that is a plain fact, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Japan...

Would it not be advisable for you to drop the kool aid jar and look at things objectively?

Obama is no socialist, he has continued W's many strategies, his health care program is solidly GOP and he has not sought to punish the Wall Street crowd that nearlky wrecked the world's economy.

I am a small business owner, have never been salaried - I rely on myself - that does not mean that I have to swallow crony capitalism or any other foolishness.
10:01 AM on 01/02/2012
Gee.........why do you think that is?
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rbenjamin
Rule 5 rules
09:57 AM on 01/02/2012
It's a sinking feeling when you realize your representative system doesn't come close to representing you....or anybody you actually know.
09:15 AM on 01/02/2012
I have my own ideas about the solutions to the problems our country is facing, but I'm not in government. I feel that my time will come in the future where I will have no choice but to run for SOME sort of office but, at the moment, I have no illusions about what needs to be done. Our people are our country's greatest resource and they're hungry to reclaim the place in the world that we once held. We cannot look to the government to solve our problems because it won't. I can only speak for myself when I say that it's stories like these that put the fire in my belly and make me want to work to increase my own financial standing and to build something, a business, an organization, anything, that will help my country men to do the same. All we have is ourselves and that's all we've had since everyone of us got on boats, into trucks, or walked across the border to flee from ancient tyranny and superstition and start new lives here in the wilderness of North America. We'll be ok once we realize that we are all we have and that our government CAN'T help us even if it wanted to. I have nothing but optimism for our future as a nation.
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BoshSpong
My micro-bio does not meet HP's guidelines
10:57 AM on 01/02/2012
Although some of the ideas and thoughts that you share are quite valid, other points merit mention..

The idea that nothing can be achieved by using the power of government is backed by arguments that point out that FDR's New Deal did not help change things or revive the economy - they say it took WWII to do this and NOT some government program.

Such talk borders on nonsense as war is the most expensive and complete government program ever devised by man. It serves to seamlessly unite all towards the common good opposition is deemed treason; before the GOP's takeover there were moral and legal restraints on profiteering.

If governmental authority is to be diminished, do not fool yourself; someone will step into the vacuum and take its place.

If the social underpinnings of a society are vanished and the values of "common good" are replaced be "what's in it for me? The obvious result is the emergence of a ruling class composed of the wealthiest and most powerful and the emergence of misery and poverty while wealth concentrates in fewer hands.

In fact, Darwinian Economics, "survival of the fittest", has produced some very wealthy, strong, selfish and willful individuals that exhibit sociopathic tendencies (Murdoch, Koch brothers, Wall-Mart heirs etc).

Indeed government does not create wealth - but it does create the environment that can support a fair society that punishes corruption and crony capitalism.
02:10 PM on 01/02/2012
Krugman has written about this fable that FDR's New Deal did nothing. It cut unemployment in half. Now it did not out a chicken in everyone's pot. But then again if it did that would have been communism and would have been unsustainable. But it is a fact that it reduced unemployment.

It's bizarre to hear people say things like "the New Deal didn't work" without having to explain exactly what they mean. Cutting crushing poverty down is working in my book. But to the rich who have to pay more taxes I guess it's not working. The rich are just as bad as the worst welfare case you can think of. They hate to work and expect to just get richer from being rich.
mayanindependentspeak
Until now, I've never lived this long before
09:06 AM on 01/02/2012
Since WW II and the post war prosperity, both major parties have alternated having control and power in this country. An objective, non partisan observation sees that in spite of some positive social changes, the general trend of the country has been downward while the government's spending and control of our lives has increased.

Today we are governed by politicians who will earn less than 300k/year for being politicians, yet are themselves mega mufti-millionaires.

These same politicians will raise hundreds of millions of dollars to be elected to their political offices. Therein lies the problem. Our politicians don't represent or work for the people, the general population of the country anymore. They dedicate their efforts and legislation to enhance the wealth of the entities that paid for their elections.

The buying of political office is evident today. The Republican primaries are being controlled by the candidates whose supporters can pay the most for advertising.

On the Democrat side, President Obama has influence buyers who will pay his campaign upwards of $30,000 a plate to have dinner with him at the same time that many in this country struggle just to survive or feed themselves.

Both parties are corrupted by money and the buying and selling of power. Politicians of both parties are only interested in getting elected, gaining power, and serving those who bought and paid for them by supporting their campaigns. Politicians of both parties are destroying what was once the greatest nation the world has known.
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10:09 AM on 01/02/2012
Eloquently articulated post, with the mindset of a true statesman rather that a party toadie like most posts on HP.
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devondx
Totally De-regulate all RED states=JUSTICE..
08:46 AM on 01/02/2012
because they hate socialism everyone in the GOP theocracy

want to return to the good old 1950's....

when over 50 % of US jobs were unionized.......compared to less than 10% today....

and they support moving all US jobs to China,,,,because they hate "socialism".....
09:51 AM on 01/02/2012
Where do you get this crap? First...........I know no one who wants China to make all our things.
Second...........The anti union thing is more narrow than you think. Unions are great until they begin bleeding the people dry by protecting people who do not work. Increase pay until it strangles the people with unreal benefits no one else has. Third..................Socialism has failed everywhere it has been instituted.
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devondx
Totally De-regulate all RED states=JUSTICE..
03:41 PM on 01/02/2012
the GOP worships China's "capitalism".....its all they ever talk about.....

as for the racism . sexism and big time Unions of the 50s.......

thats what they dream about returning to....

even though they "hate" socialism.....
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devondx
Totally De-regulate all RED states=JUSTICE..
03:48 PM on 01/02/2012
what a load of crap....??,,,its straight from GOP quotes in the above article....

as for total crap....there's never any form of government thats

pure "socialism" or pure "capitalism".....and PLEASE DO tell me

how Canada's "failing" by regulating their banks and avoiding this


housing employment meltdowns while providing their citizens with

national healthcare.....
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guveqzero
Inventor and Innovator
08:17 AM on 01/02/2012
People worry about the wrong things. It is not the debt anymore, it is the gradual destruction of the rights and opportunities of our own people. If we were still farmers, we could go back to the farm. But no, we are workers in a world of obsolete workers. Government should protect our livelihoods, not steal it and give to the highest bidder.
mayanindependentspeak
Until now, I've never lived this long before
08:11 AM on 01/02/2012
Politicians of both major parties are to blame for where we are today, and it is has been coming for a long time.

Many people in their 50's or older say that they this seems to no longer be the country that they grew up in.
Many people in their 40's say things aren't looking good.
Many people in their 30's are not happy abut being underemployed and in general are skeptical about things.
Many people in their 20's think it all sucks and are apathetic.

Very few people seem to think the politicians are doing a good job or that the country is moving in a good direction.

Yet in spite of this, as people get more and more pessimistic and the country declines economically, the politicians get more and more wealthy.