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Beyond Detroit Auto Show Hype, Gas-Powered Models Still Rule

Detroit Auto Show

The Huffington Post   First Posted: 01/09/12 07:48 PM ET Updated: 01/10/12 01:21 PM ET

DETROIT -- Judging from the hype at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit this week, one might think electric cars and hybrid cars are about to take over the world. Nearly a dozen cars at the show, which runs until Jan. 22, come with advanced battery power instead of just gas-fueled engines.

But speak to industry veterans and it's clear that gasoline will be king for many years. Consumers' enthusiasm is mild for the alternative fuel cars.

Few auto executives think there will be mass acceptance of electric and hybrid cars until at least 2025, when the country's Corporate Average Fuel Economy, or CAFE, regulations kick in, forcing automakers to make cars that attain 54.5 miles per gallon on average.

Until then, relatively low gas prices and cheaper technology will keep motorists humming along in regular gasoline-powered internal combustion engines.

"Internal combustion engines are not going away anytime soon," said Gary Silberg, head of KPMG’s automotive unit and a partner at the firm. Silberg released a report last week that demonstrated the skepticism that global auto executives have for electrifying cars: About 65 percent of those surveyed say electric vehicles and hybrid cars will account for just 6 percent to 10 percent of global annual sales worldwide through 2025.

Even though hybrid and electric car sales have been on the rise in recent years, consumer demand could start waning. A tax credit aimed at making it more economical for Americans to plug in an electric car expired on Jan. 1. Consumers can no longer obtain $1,000 to install at home a 220-volt electric car-charging device. A $7,500 federal tax break given to those who purchase electric vehicles could also be on the chopping block as legislators seek more ways to balance the budget.

Hybrids are more expensive than regular engines for one primary reason: They use two different systems to drive the car; one gas powered and the other electric, adding about $3,000 to the vehicle's price. And the technology for electric cars is brand-new and highly expensive –- although automakers won’t say how much the new battery systems cost.

"I think the level of skepticism is well justified," Sergio Marchionne, CEO of Chrysler and Fiat told reporters on Monday. "But if an American auto executive thinks he can get to the CAFE standards of 2025 on combustion engines alone, he's probably smoking an illegal substance."

Chrysler has just one electric car announced, with an electric version of the Fiat 500 going on sale at the end of this year.

But other automakers are making a bigger push into electric vehicles, despite the uncertainty. Ford will have five such cars by the end the year, including the 2013 Ford Fusion hybrid and 2013 Ford Fusion Energi plug-in electric shown at the Detroit auto show Monday.

The automaker is betting that gas prices will keep rising, making hybrids and electric vehicles more appealing. Ford expects that by the end of this decade, 10 percent to 25 percent of its overall sales will have some sort of battery or hybrid technology.

Other electric or hybrid vehicles shown in Detroit include the 2013 Volkswagen Jetta hybrid, the Volkswagen E-Bugster concept car, the Smart for-us pint-sized electric pickup, the BMW Active Hybrid 3 compact sport sedan, the BMW Active Hybrid 5 and the Nissan e-NV200 concept minivan.

Flexible manufacturing facilities will be key for Ford, said Mark Fields, the company's executive vice president. Ford will make hybrid, battery and regular internal combustion systems interchangeable, so if demand for one kind of engine slackens, it can start producing another kind within the same plant.

"It's dependent on what happens with gas prices," Fields said. "So our strategy is to give people a choice and have the manufacturing processes in place that allow us to be flexible. Then whatever the market does, we're in position to deal with that."

And with five hybrids or electrics on the market, Ford is able to capture the marketing cachet that comes with a green lineup. Even if consumers choose not to buy a hybrid or plug-in, they like them.

That’s a lesson General Motors learned since rolling out its electric and gas vehicle, the Chevy Volt, in late 2010.

"Volt has cause a lot of people to consider Chevrolet" who hadn’t looked at the brand before, said Mary Barra, GM's global product development chief.

Even when sold in small volumes, electric cars lend a buzz that automakers can't resist. Chevy sold just 7,600 Volts last year, out of GM's total of 2.4 million cars and trucks sold in the U.S. in 2011. The automaker showed off at the Detroit show the two-seater electric Chevy EN-V, which goes about 25 miles before losing power.

Fuel economy is the way to grab consumers: Even Bentley, which sells its Continental GT for about $189,000, is promising better gas mileage. Its new Continental has an engine downsized from a whopping V10 to a V8 and achieves a fuel economy that's 40 percent better.

By contrast, many of Ford's vehicles are equipped with V4 engines, which are lighter and more fuel efficient.

Ultimately, there is not much car companies can do right now to try to reaach the stringent new fuel economy standards unless they embrace some sort of alternative fuel solution. That could mean hybrid cars, pure electric cars, natural gas vehicles or hydrogen-powered cars.

"Part of this is looking at the fundamental drivers long term, not over the next five years," said Oliver Hazimeh, a partner at accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers' PRTM e-mobility division. "If you were looking at this in 2018 or 2019, the answers will be quite different."

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DETROIT -- Judging from the hype at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit this week, one might think electric cars and hybrid cars are about to take over the world. Nearly a dozen cars...
DETROIT -- Judging from the hype at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit this week, one might think electric cars and hybrid cars are about to take over the world. Nearly a dozen cars...
 
 
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02:26 PM on 02/04/2012
we drive approx 5000 miles a year, and now save a fortune we hired a car from this company Car Hire UK first and it was great, this really is the way forward, you need to book weeks in advance though which is a pain! you can get a rate from them at http://www.car-hire-uk.com do we really need to buy?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Humanity Beyond Profits
one mind at a time, one step a generation...
02:08 PM on 01/11/2012
i drive about 20,000 miles a year, with 30mpg I spend about $2,100 on gas a year. If i were to buy Tesla's Model S, it would save me $16,000 during their 8year battery warranty. Its also important to remember oil maintenance(around $120/year savings), and im assuming I can replace the battery and keep the car for another 8yrs?

Having said that, i still cant afford more than mid $20Ks on a car. So although there are many savings, the benefits are not there yet for majority of consumers. I'm just glad we started moving in the right direction after this was supposed to happen in the 90s...
12:42 PM on 01/15/2012
A Tesla is not the kind of car you would use to save money. But that's not what you would buy a BMW for either. Not all cars can be justified purely by their savings.

However, you could indeed buy a Leaf, or an MiEV, and save money - as long as your driving needs mesh with those cars strengths.

If you bought a Leaf and saved $16,000 in 8 years, that would have paid for most of the cost of the car.

Or, take your $16,000 savings and buy any new compact car you want - essentially free.

For that matter, even if you bought a Tesla, you could use your $16,000 savings to buy a new battery pack. The car should then last many years past that point - since electric motors have no wear items that need replacing for hundreds of thousands of miles.

IOW, $16,000 in savings is nothing to sneeze at.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Humanity Beyond Profits
one mind at a time, one step a generation...
03:21 PM on 01/16/2012
yeah, unfortunately, i need something that can do 150miles a day without charge; i'm a firm believer its only a matter of time

i brought up tesla not to say thats the answer, but to point out the technology is there.
wsdave
Abusive or Insulting? I won't be responding.
02:34 AM on 01/11/2012
"By contrast, many of Ford's vehicles are equipped with V4 engines, which are lighter and more fuel efficient."

Really?

A "V4"?

I can't think of ANY that are.
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09:11 AM on 01/11/2012
Well my friend it is an I4 not a v4 but they are selling great. As a sales mgr at a ford store the explorer and edge with the 2ltr ecoboost are the hottest thing going. 30 mph+ is a big deal for vehicles that are not small cars. They have more power than the 3.5v6 and better milage. Ford wil have different sizes of the ecoboost coming out and they are going to sell like crazy. The 3.5 ecoboost in the f150 is the best selling truck and motor combo there is right now.
wsdave
Abusive or Insulting? I won't be responding.
12:05 PM on 01/11/2012
No question that Ford is one of the few success stories in the country today, but, again, I haven't heard of a V4 in a Ford since the first generation Capri (I owned a U.S. 2nd gen with the 2.8).

Sloopy reporting that would have been EASY to check.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheTightwireGuy
Attempting to balance reason and passion
12:23 AM on 01/11/2012
Face up to it, energy conservation fans: Gasoline is still WAY too cheap to wean the American buying public off of energy-wasting transportation. Which reminds me of this hilarious video featuring "America's Best Christian, Mrs. Betty Bowers":

CAUTION: THIS VIDEO CONTAINS GRAPHIC LANGUAGE AND SIDE-SPLITTING SARCASM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CHYU3u0pPOM

TTG
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lipps
Snopes is going to be busy editing errors soon
11:50 PM on 01/10/2012
There is no demand for a $40,000.00 car that will only go 50 miles and uses coal as an energy source.
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09:00 AM on 01/11/2012
HERE HERE LIPPS!!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bio-man
An advocate for the middle class
12:32 PM on 01/11/2012
Actually when the Volt is running on Electricity, it get 93 MPG equivalant. Coal is only 50% of our generation portfolio, but even if it was 100%, there would still be much less pollution as 80% of the energy in the battery goes to the wheels, while a ICE gasoline only has a 15%-20% efficiency. Even with a 10% line loss, 70% efficiency is much better than 15% - 20%. The cost per mile of an electric is about $0.02 verses about $0.12 for a comparable ICE. Because the Oil companies have a lot of clout when it comes to Energy Policy, change will be much slower than it needs to be.
12:33 PM on 01/15/2012
Actually, coal is even less - about 45% of the generation mix. Most energy on the grid is cleaner than coal or oil. Plus, the coal plants are baseload - designed to run at full output regardless of what's plugged in. So plugging in your car makes the peaking plants run more, not the coal plants.

And power line efficiency averages 93% efficient. Certainly more efficient than the equivalent step for gasoline - delivery by thousands of trucks to thousands of service stations.
10:55 PM on 01/10/2012
Hey, I would love to buy an electric car. I live on the Gulf Coast so I need the hybrid engine in case I am evacuating and stuck in traffic for 12 hours. It took me 13 hours to get to Baton Rouge from New Orleans in one evacuation. So, I have to have the safety of the hybrid gas motor. If I could buy a plug-in hybrid that was US made and did not cost 1.5 times the Japanese model, I would go out and get it ASAP. But, I can't because the US auto industry did not listen to customers. Now we have to wait for them to make it AND get a couple years of track record on the road.
Meanwhile, I am driving a 1994 Japanese made car, waiting for the US industry to catch up. I am waiting, guys. Please hurry, can't patch this puppy together much longer!
08:08 PM on 01/10/2012
Gas guzzlin pick up trucks still rule, we even buy V8 gas guzzlers form Japan.
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Cody Wandel
Unaffiliated Malcontent. I drink nobody's Kool Aid
07:24 PM on 01/10/2012
It's not that people don't want them, it's that hybrids and electrics are still really expensive. Top it off with poor performance with the hybrids and many don't want to assume so much debt for what is, as of this moment, a mediocre car.
Poor people would enjoy saving money on gas, but if you have to pay $35k+ up front, how much money are you really saving?
If you have an average passenger car for 5 years, with gas over $4 a gallon, you would be spending about $8k on fuel costs over that period if you did about 10k miles a year. If a poor person buys an entry level gas powered vehicle for, let's say, $21k, then spends $8k on fuel over 5 years, that's still less than many new hybrids or electric vehicles straight from the factory.

I'd love to have a hybrid some day when the price comes down. Right now, I think they are developing an image problem as the vehicle of choice for the Country Club Liberal. It doesn't help that most car companies are marketing them in such a lukewarm way either.
06:20 PM on 01/10/2012
Average income for a Chevy Volt buyer is $171,000/yr. Yet this Administration insists the taxpayers need to fork over a $7,500 rebate to these 1%'ers?
BlackbirdHighway
Brawndo's got electrolites!
06:42 PM on 01/10/2012
No, those are not the 1%. To be in the 1% you need a minimum income of over $500,000.
11:54 PM on 01/10/2012
So, you're comfortable giving these rebates to people in the top 2% smartalec?

btw...the top 1% begins at a houshold income of $380,000......
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Peter Combs
Amused by the illogical..no, NOT a Republican
05:27 PM on 01/10/2012
Eventually the cost of electricity will start to climb, after all..something has to make the electricity...and it will get more expensive.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
WasteNJ
Democracy: (It's bad for business)
04:54 PM on 01/10/2012
Careful what we wish for, if electrics ever became dominant we'd be fighting wars for Lithium in no time.
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12:16 AM on 01/11/2012
Options on Lithium mining companies? Maybe a good call?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
WasteNJ
Democracy: (It's bad for business)
08:53 AM on 01/12/2012
Most definitely not a losing commodity.
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WebbieGuru
I could write a program that is better @ governing
04:29 PM on 01/10/2012
Of course I'm not going to buy a car that is, on average, $8,000 more than the non-hybrid model. Let's not even go into the electric, because I'd have to get my head checked if I ever spent 50x more on a car just because it was electric.

I want to purchase these cars, don't get me wrong, but while cars are not an investment, these are are even less of one. You'll NEVER get your money back in gas. Even for a hybrid gas would have to be over $6 a gallon to break even in 6 years.

These guys are manipulating the demand by setting unrealistic purchase prices. Make hybrid and electric cars the same price as a regular car, or even $2000 more, and you bet demand would sky rocket.
06:23 PM on 01/10/2012
Have you looked into the cost of replacing the lithium batteries six years or so down the road? Even if you don't plan to keep the car that long, it will have no value on the used car market
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Humanity Beyond Profits
one mind at a time, one step a generation...
02:00 PM on 01/11/2012
Tesla has an 8yr warranty on all their models. However, it will be a while before the $50K pricetag comes down for the average American
wsdave
Abusive or Insulting? I won't be responding.
02:38 AM on 01/11/2012
Based on how much I drive my current vehicles, gas would have to be over $8/gallon to warrant me spending even $10,000 TOTAL (not $10,000 EXTRA) on an all-electric.
04:25 PM on 01/10/2012
Can not wait to buy a Volt. With my commute of 18 miles, and my company putting a charging station in the parking lot (bonus, it's at the front), I will only have to fill up when the gas in the car needs to be used to prevent it from going bad.
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bldr1bob
06:27 PM on 01/10/2012
Ride a bike. You'll save 60,000 and get in shape for free.
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12:18 AM on 01/11/2012
I actually don't enjoy biking that much, I'd much prefer a treadmill.
03:49 PM on 01/10/2012
The article is missing a big part of the solution. In just a few years, the game changer in the car industry will be composite materials like carbon fiber that are stronger and much lighter than steel. A lighter vehicle goes further and faster on the same gallon or kwh. Like all technologies, it will take a while for economics to work, and for car manufactures to re-tool. Its a major shift. BMW plans to ship a carbon fiber car in late 2013.
Also, with an electric vehicle, you can put motors in the wheels. This removes a very heavy drive train and so the car goes even further. Its all about weight.
04:29 PM on 01/10/2012
Of course these measures will be countered in some cases by consequences of obesity epidemic.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
WasteNJ
Democracy: (It's bad for business)
05:03 PM on 01/10/2012
It's definitely all about weight. I dropped about 60-70 lbs on the drift car when I swapped out the front end metal body panels for carbon fiber ones. CF is good stuff, but expensive and super hard to repair for a typical vehicle, at least nowadays.

There are plenty out there now, the Corvette Z06 and ZR1 are either part or fully carbon bodies. The Nissan GT-R has a ton of carbon panels, and the supercars (Lexus LF-A, Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin, Saleen, Henessey, blah blah) are all carbon bodied... but spendy and slow to produce.

Drivetrain loss is a place where a lot of efficiency could be gained with something like the motorized wheels, we need to get outside the box for those types of vehicles...

f/f
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fredday
Nyak Nyak Nyak
03:31 PM on 01/10/2012
I enjoy being validated for my choices. :P

I bought an Elantra Limited on Nov 10th (My 2nd Hyundai). Traded in my Sonata (that drank gas with its V6) for it. Granted I paid almost $23000 for my limited (as opposed to the $16000+ for the GLS), the gas mileage is stellar, the technology is awesome. GPS, Premium Audio, push button start, front and rear heated seats, and on and on and on.

Love my Elantra.

American Automakers, call me when you get around to building affordable, advanced, stylish, reliable cars.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
WasteNJ
Democracy: (It's bad for business)
05:05 PM on 01/10/2012
The new Hyundai's are as good as any other Asian imports, and the Genesis and Eqqus rival the euro luxo giants. I test drove the Genesis coupe and it's done right (little underpowered at 300Hp) and I can see them looking in the right places for direction. I like a company with a factory drift team. ;)
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12:22 AM on 01/11/2012
I love the genesis but it feels cheaper than the euro luxe's, the materials inside and out just aren't the quality - but i say this with a big yet, south korea has serious small man's disease and it helps big time.
06:31 PM on 01/10/2012
Your Hyundai was probably built in the US If not ,it soon will be. Only GM and Chrysler can't figure out how to build cars in America
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Fredday
Nyak Nyak Nyak
02:02 PM on 01/11/2012
My Sonata was built in Alabama. My Elantra was built in Korea.