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Greek Debt Deal Would Leave Creditors With 70 Percent Loss

Greek Debt Deal

GABRIELE STEINHAUSER and ELENA BECATOROS   01/30/12 08:07 PM ET  AP

BRUSSELS — Investors participating in a deal to slash Greece's massive debt would face an overall loss on their bond holdings of more than 70 percent, a person involved in with the negotiations said early Tuesday.

European leaders at a summit in Brussels said a final debt deal could be signed off in the coming days, together with a second multibillion-euro bailout package designed to save the country from a potentially disastrous bankruptcy.

Athens and representatives of investors holding Greek government bonds over the weekend came close to a final agreement designed to bring Greece's debt down to a more manageable level. Without a restructuring, those debts would swell to around double the country's economic output by the end of the year.

If the agreement works as planned, it will help Greece remain solvent and help Europe avoid a blow to its already weakened financial system, even though banks and other bond investors will have to accept big losses.

The person involved in the talks said Monday that the more-than 70 percent loss was the result of cutting the bonds' face value in half, reducing the average interest rate to between 3.5 per cent and 4 percent and pushing repayment of the bonds 30 years into the future. A second person briefed on the talks confirmed that the loss on the so-called net present value of the bonds would be around 70 percent.

Both people spoke on condition of anonymity because the talks are confidential.

The deal, which would reduce the country's debt by about euro100 billion ($131.1 billion) and save it billions of euros in interest payments, needs to be completed quickly. Greece runs the risk of a disorderly default on March 20, when it faces a euro14.5 billion bond repayment it cannot afford without additional help.

Many investors – banks, insurance companies and hedge funds – who hold Greek bonds also hold debt from other countries that use the euro, which could lose value if there is a fully fledged Greek default. This is the scenario the eurozone fears most and why the currency union hopes investors will voluntarily accept a partial loss on their Greek bonds.

The agreement taking shape is a key step before Greece can get a second, euro130 billion bailout. The country has been surviving since May 2010 on an initial euro110 billion ($144.21 billion) package of rescue loans from other countries using the euro and the International Monetary Fund.

Even a deal is inked, there is no guarantee that Greece won't need more help.

"It's too early now to say whether we will need some extra public funding," Greek prime minister Lucas Papademos said after a meeting with other top European officials in Brussels early Tuesday. "Our goal is to avert such an alternative."

More public sector support could either mean more bailout loans – something that the eurozone is reluctant to commit to – or a deal with the European Central Bank to also give Greece a break on its debt.

The ECB holds some euro55 billion in Greek government bonds, which it purchased at around euro40 billion in the early days of the debt crisis, according to analyst estimates. One option would be to allow Greece to buy back those bonds at the price the ECB paid to buy them, slicing another euro15 billion or so off what the country owes. However, so far the ECB has ruled out participating in any debt restructuring.

On top of restructuring its debt with private investors, Greece must also take other steps to secure further aid. It must cut its deficit and boost the competitiveness of its economy through layoffs of public sector workers and the sale of several state companies, among other moves.

Papademos said the so-called troika of debt inspectors – the European Commission, the ECB and the IMF – were calling for further spending cuts to meet budget targets and agreements to lower labor costs.

But Greece's partners in the eurozone have grown frustrated with the country's slow implementation of austerity measures and economic reforms promised almost two years ago. In recent days, they have discussed ways of monitoring Athens' efforts even more closely, including giving the European Commission, the power to block spending decisions that threaten the country's ability to repay its debts.

Earlier Monday, Greek lenders Eurobank and Alpha Bank said a planned merger to create the country's largest bank by assets could be put on hold because of the negotiations over the bond swap.

The banks said that "an accurate timeline cannot be given" to complete the deal announced last August because of the negotiations.

Greece's finance ministry expressed surprise at the announcement, arguing that the negotiations had produced "nothing new or different" to factors already taken into account by both banks.

__

Becatoros reported from Athens, Greece. Sarah DiLorenzo in Brussels contributed to this report.

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BRUSSELS — Investors participating in a deal to slash Greece's massive debt would face an overall loss on their bond holdings of more than 70 percent, a person involved in with the negotiations ...
BRUSSELS — Investors participating in a deal to slash Greece's massive debt would face an overall loss on their bond holdings of more than 70 percent, a person involved in with the negotiations ...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rick Carufel
Constitutionalist
10:34 PM on 02/12/2012
Who cares if some parasitic financial institution loses 70% or 100% of what's owed to them?
Anytime their demands destabilize governments it is time to declare them criminals and arrest them.
Last time I checked instigating riots and extortion are still crimes even for multinational vampire corporations.
12:03 AM on 01/31/2012
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/landmark-case-greek-court-writes-employed-bank-customers-debt

From Kathimerini: "In what could turn out to be a significant ruling for Greeks suffering from the economic crisis, a court in Hania, Crete, has become the first in the country to order that the majority of the debt owed to banks by someone still in full employment be wiped out.

On the specifics:

in the Hania case, the court ruled in favor of a full-time civil servant. The divorced woman, who has three children, asked to be given protection after her banks refused to offer her new terms for combined loans of 112,000 euros. The unnamed woman explained that she did not have any assets she could sell to pay off her debt.

In its ruling, the court deemed that the woman, who has moved in with her parents, needs 350 euros a month to cover her own costs but that the rest of her earnings could be distributed equally among the three banks she owes money to. The judge deemed that this process should last for four years, meaning the woman would pay back some 30,000 euros and the remaining 82,000 would be written off.

And the implications:

Thousands of people have already appealed to the courts for protection under the 2010 law but legal experts believe the decision in Hania may lead to a new wave of appeals by Greeks who still have jobs but are unable to repay their loans.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
westcoastsc
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhe
11:08 PM on 01/30/2012
Whatever happened to that HP challenge they had for people coming up with ideas to straighten out the U.S. economy? Who won? It would have been interesting to see people's different ideas. Were they too insightful? Did they cause people in power to call the whole thing off?

Also, there was another challenge for the best questions to ask President Carter. It was near that time when he fainted. What happened with that?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
westcoastsc
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhe
10:17 PM on 01/30/2012
Clinton got out of Whitewater by saying that they had lost money. When creditors are saying that putting Greece in slave debt is a loss, it means the books are cooked.
09:36 PM on 01/30/2012
so?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
09:24 PM on 01/30/2012
Debt 101. If the US debt is $14 trillion dollars is it possible for there to be more us dollars in existence than that? No! So if we get rid of all of our debt will there any money left on the street for daily commerce? No! So just what are we fretting about? We can't ever pay off our debt so why worry about the size? The size only affects the banks who are holding gazillions in imaginary money. They will get over it but since there is not enough money in the world to pay them and never will be enough it is really no big deal. It's 90% imaginary money.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
09:16 PM on 01/30/2012
The big banks are going to be faced with two possibilities in the very near future.

They can either go big on debt forgiveness or they can go belly up.

There is simply not enough money in existence to cover the value of the securities on the bank's books.

That is 100% their own fault. Fractional banking is ridiculous. The numbers can never tally and the risk is always socialized while the profits are privatized.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
westcoastsc
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhe
11:04 PM on 01/30/2012
Thank you for putting it into terms like that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
FogBelter
Illegitimis non carborundum
08:11 PM on 01/30/2012
Can you say "Credit Event"?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
08:11 PM on 01/30/2012
If they are bankers WGAF?
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Merseysidefella
The View From The Top
07:45 PM on 01/30/2012
"Greek Debt Deal Would Leave Creditors With 70 Percent Loss"
Let them eat Cain´s Godfather´s Pizza 16 inch special with the extra salami and sausage toppings
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
The ORF in Largo
Louder than a fart a hurricane
07:16 PM on 01/30/2012
The average Greek citizen will be greeked by their government and the creditors
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Molly D
11:09 PM on 01/30/2012
Paybacks, 'n all.
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NickTAZ
The blue = Job Growth
07:08 PM on 01/30/2012
What percentage of people have more in debt than have debts owed to them? Even a majority of rich people owe more money on their homes than other people owe money to them. It would be tempting to forgive all debt and let the people keep whatever property they currently have without the debt associated with it. Of course, this doesn't work great for a number of reasons, but the main one is that nobody would want to loan money again knowing that they may not be paid back with no recourse. This is, on a smaller scale, what is being asked in the Greek debt crisis. Not a big deal if they lived in a bubble, but in a global world other nations will not trust Greece.

Flash forward more than a century. What happens when the credit markets are shaken after we have a world government? Will debt be forgiven? There will be no outside nation to disapprove and hold the government accountable. More that 99% of the people will be in debt (investments - debt), and less than 1% will be the creditors. When foreclosures start to skyrocket under one government, the people will change economic policy forever. This is the fate of a democratic world nation.
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08:20 PM on 01/30/2012
If it doesn't happen in 2012 (the end of the World) you should hedge that the idea of a world government isn't going to happen, much less a "democratic" one. We barely, by the skin of our teeth, have a democracy here now. we'll blow this place apart before "World government" happens. We have set the clock on the ticking time bomb. It would be a Bankracratic government if it were to happen, but as I alluded, we'll be gone, all of us.
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NickTAZ
The blue = Job Growth
08:30 PM on 01/30/2012
All I can say to that is I hope you're wrong :)

In all seriousness, there has never been a century in recorded time in which the world was less connected than the century before it. Even after the fall of Rome, which wasn't so great for parts of Europe and some of their connections, the following century showed an INCREASE in world wide trade routes.

The possibility of total destruction always exists, but until it happens, we will continue our march toward community.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Molly D
11:18 PM on 01/30/2012
The present system of currencies is already failing. We have now the evolutionary descendant of the gold/ silver standards of yesteryear. (From which all the gold and silver was finally looted by 1974.) Nevermind a hundred years forward, just 10 and we have system collapse. The world's economy is robust as long as we have stable currency, banking, and trading markets. We got a glimpse of how things can look like imminent total failure by just some speculative collapse in one part. Currencies are the single most critical part of the system. We're all going down in a "disorderly" "event." Fairly soon. Agreed the people will change economic policy forever. It isn't a matter of choice.
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NickTAZ
The blue = Job Growth
12:34 AM on 01/31/2012
So pessimistic! Understandably so- I used to feel the same way (and furious that people wouldn't wake up and listen). Honestly, either one of our predictions could come true. Yours, for sure, will happen one day, because all things come to an end. I've found a sort of peace in knowing that no one can really predict the end (that religious guy tried last year, remember?)
06:54 PM on 01/30/2012
Oh too bad! The rich investors will take the hit, imagine that, why it's so unjust! I feel so sorry for them...NOT. The Greek people need to oust their sell out government, default and tell Germany to take a hike.
07:07 PM on 01/30/2012
Yea, it will be hilarious when the Germans take the Greek Islands :P
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08:23 PM on 01/30/2012
Before it's over the only ones laughing will be those that already live on next to nothing, the one's with the least to loose. Those that already starve nearly to death everyday. The rest of us are likely to suffer without our color tv's, ipads and q-tips. Most in this country won't know what to do when they don't have TP, clean running water, heat or a local corner store. Gun sales will go through the roof. They will only delay the inevitable.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
leorangerie
06:11 PM on 01/30/2012
That country is going under, and deserves to. The economy of over spending, over promising, and under working. Disaster.
06:32 PM on 01/30/2012
& under taxing
07:07 PM on 01/30/2012
No, take fraud, similar to half the democratic party and Sec of Treasury.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
09:19 PM on 01/30/2012
That's too funny. Was that FAUZ NEWZ or did you just make it up?
09:18 PM on 01/30/2012
Sounds like the US, but I assume you are talking about Greece.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Molly D
11:21 PM on 01/30/2012
The last to die will see the others go before it.
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Merseysidefella
The View From The Top
05:47 PM on 01/30/2012
All over the world it is the same thing. In the end the only thing that matters is manufacturing and taking a long-term view of excellence and self-reliance. Countries like Germany or Sweden were doing well with and without the euro, and the USA was doing well for the 30 years after WW II.

Fictitious, quick-buck, easy money wealth creation always fails in the long run : the USA model of middlemen and financial speculation, the Greek model of slacking off, the Spanish way of speculating with the real estate boom.

The developed world needs to enter a new era of blue-collar roll up our sleeves manufacturing era and if neccesary protectionism or at least balanced trade and tariffs.
Taking an argument to its unreasonalble extreme, what would happen if the USA became totally self-sufficient, with a new political/economic model ?????? would anyone starve? no, we can grown anything. would anyone be homeless? no, we have plenty of building materials.
The result would be a roaring, powerful USA.
REVOLUTION !
Arise from slavery - we can have the great country that we wish!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
muck-raker
give me liberty or give me death
07:14 PM on 01/30/2012
excellent post, in addition the people that we elected turned their backs on us for a quick buck. people like Dodd, Frank, Summers, Rubin, Greenspan, Blankfein stopped regulation to make billions for themselves and their pals...The American people have been left wanting once again.l
07:34 PM on 01/30/2012
we have gone from a country that made things to a country that makes stuff up

unfortunately i don't see us going back to making things anytime soon, because of entrenched power and money and undue corrupting influence they have

i just dont see political will to change the fact that the winners are still winning like never before

just look at apple and others and how they are able to rise to the top using little more than slave labor in china and get away with it

just look at you bank accounts earning near 0% while credit card rates continue to rise

and inflation if you have looked at food, rent, insurance, medical, utilities, education ect is going through the roof while the government continues to claim that is nonexistent