More

Syria U.N. Deliberations Haunted By Ghost Of Libya Mission

Syria Russia Un

First Posted: 02/ 2/2012 2:31 pm Updated: 02/ 2/2012 4:15 pm

WASHINGTON -- As diplomats at the United Nations pore over a draft resolution condemning the brutal Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad, experts say that lingering discomfort over the execution of the Libya mission is playing a crucial, if under-discussed, role in the deliberations.

"The ghost of Libya is haunting the debate," an official at one U.N. mission that is challenging the current draft told The Huffington Post.

A handful of Security Council nations, including Russia, India and South Africa, have resisted American-led efforts to issue a stern resolution demanding that Assad step down from power. Those nations, along with Brazil, which was in the Security Council last year, and China are collectively known in the acronym-friendly U.N. as the BRICS nations.

At the heart of the debate, analysts say, is the doctrine of intervention known as "Responsibility to Protect" (R2P), which argues that the international community has a duty to intervene to prevent atrocities around the world.

In the run-up to the U.N.-sanctioned mission in Libya, R2P was deployed as a leading justification for taking action. Russia, India and China all abstained -- South Africa voted in its favor -- from the resolution that authorized "all necessary measures" to prevent a mass killing of civilians by Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi.

But shortly after the mission began, BRICS nations began to express discomfort at the extent of the aerial bombardment, and what they suspected was the ultimate objective of regime change.

"From the Russian point of view, the result of Russian support was the no-fly zone was immediately turned by Western counties, and Saudi Arabia, Qatar, into a regime change operation," said Fyodor Lukyanov, the editor of the Russian policy journal Russia in Global Affairs. "So that's why Russia, in the Syrian case, is even more reluctant to intervene."

There are other reasons why Russia, in particular, might seek to block a strong resolution on Syria, most importantly some $5 billion in existing arms sales between the two nations. On Thursday, The New York Times reported that Russia has succeeded in removing a provision from the draft that would ban all arms sales to the Syrian regime.

But many analysts watching the Syria debate also see genuine concern from the BRICS nations about the Libya precedent.

"It is a real debate," said Richard Gowan, an international peacekeeping expert at NYU's Center for International Cooperation. "The fact of the matter is the way that NATO extended the air campaign, the way that the goals were moved in Libya, did create some real questions about what R2P can be exploited for."

"It's fully in play," agreed Philippe Bolopion, the U.N. director for Human Rights Watch -- which supports further Security Council action in Syria, including targeted sanctions -- of lingering Libya concerns. "I don't think a day goes by without the ambassadors mentioning it."

In Tuesday's open debate on the Syria draft resolution at the U.N. Security Council, the example of Libya cropped up repeatedly. Several ambassadors indicated that while they supported preventing atrocities in principle, they were not comfortable with the U.N. signing off on steps that might eventually lead to more extensive military action.

"We must avoid any action that may run the risk of further polarizing the parties and lead to an escalation of the violence," said South African Ambassador Baso Sangqu. "Military intervention to resolve political conflicts, as we have seen in other parts of the world and recently in the Libyan situation, has unintended consequences not only for the country in question but for the wider region."

"It's about the rule of law and how we apply international principles," an official with a BRICS nation told The Huffington Post Thursday. "And, what's the next step? Assuming there is no compliance with the resolution, should the next step be sanctions? Because if there's no compliance, then the Security Council is in a position where it has to do something or else we lose credibility in the international community."

"The problem with the debate now is if you're not for this, you're against it, meaning you are supporting a brutal dictator," the official continued. "We need to take action to push Syria toward change and end the violence, but we don't see how a resolution like this will end the violence."

The United States and its diplomatic partners in Britain and France have repeatedly insisted that military action is not an option in Syria, and the current draft resolution emphasizes the need to resolve the crisis "without foreign military intervention."

"I don't think anyone can seriously look at the resolution and say that it will be used by NATO to launch attacks tomorrow," Bolopion said. "But they are making the 'slippery slope' argument, saying that it started the same way in Ivory Coast or Libya, and ended in regime change. Of course with these type of arguments, the Security Council would not do anything anymore."

But now even some ardent proponents of R2P say that unless the West reconsiders how R2P was applied in Libya, the debate over future missions like Syria will only face more complications.

In a recent presentation before the Group of Friends of R2P, Gareth Evans, a former Australian foreign minister who is one of the progenitors of the R2P concept, argued that the "backlash" against the Libya operation "is serious."

"Unless the issues of concern are addressed, U.N.S.C. agreement to any future coercive military action is going to be impossible," Evans said at the presentation. "Just as bad, this issue has poisoned the atmosphere for lesser coercive measures, as evidenced by the current U.N.S.C. paralysis over Syria."

"The P-3 [America, Britain and France] and other friends of R2P ignore the criticisms of the implementation process at their peril," Evans told HuffPost. "Maybe not all the BRICS -- and especially Russia -- are to be taken at face value when they suggest that the paralysis over Syria is the product of a lack of confidence in the handling of Libya, but the West has made it extremely easy for the other BRICS to go along with the Russians."

FOLLOW HUFFPOST WORLD

WASHINGTON -- As diplomats at the United Nations pore over a draft resolution condemning the brutal Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad, experts say that lingering discomfort over the execution of the Li...
WASHINGTON -- As diplomats at the United Nations pore over a draft resolution condemning the brutal Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad, experts say that lingering discomfort over the execution of the Li...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 187
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Post Comment Preview Comment
To reply to a Comment: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to.
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4  Next ›  Last »  (4 total)
01:51 AM on 02/06/2012
"Russia has succeeded in removing a provision from the draft that would ban all arms sales to the Syrian regime."

This is just 1 reason why American people are stupid. We keep letting our Government spend tax dollars in the name of ousting governments to save the people, while other governments keep profiting at our expense.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:24 AM on 02/06/2012
If W or Obama faced open armed revolt here, the response would make Assad look like Mr. Rogers.

Just look at the brutality that the US armed camps at all government levels are doing to the unarmed and peaceful Occupy demonstrators. We are putting the word out that it is just wonderful to have regime change abroad, but military fascism here is just fine.

Darkly entertaining in the extreme to watch in terms of having to sit through the lowest forms of moral and ethical systems on all sides killing each other from the inside and outside. Scary to imagine the outcome of our global hypocrisy.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:16 AM on 02/06/2012
The Israeli "settlers" can't wait to move their "settlements" a couple hundred miles further east, caring nothing about WW III. Syria is just another front door into Iran. The US an dIsraeli troops are hallucinating about a direct overland route to Iran. We are so screwed.
10:51 AM on 02/05/2012
Completely absurd how a successful removal of a crazy dictator in a relatively short period of time and a handover to a proper transitional government paving the way for democracy is making Russia and China have reservations about the Syria resolution.

If they are afraid that this will set a precedent for intervention in their own affairs if we ever see another Tienanmen or an escalation of the situation in Russia right now, they need not be concerned. Unlike Assad, they have nuclear weapons and powerful armies, so I hate to say it but we could do nothing anyways.
08:16 AM on 02/05/2012
It's all imperialist propaganda about the situation in Syria. The imperialist nations used SCR 1973 to bomb and kill innocent Libyans. Being very racist themselves--i.e. Obama, Sarkozy and Cameron--then armed and unleashed gangs of racist Arab beheaders, rapists, plunderers, torturers, etc. on the innocent Libyan people--especially the indigenous Africans--Libyans or non-Libyan.
07:04 PM on 02/03/2012
It makes me sick when that so many people are willing to write off the blatant evils of these governments even going so far to claim that when we have attempted to assist the revolutions that we are in the wrong.

Clearly the posters on this board think that stopping the mass killings of civilians by the organized efforts of a government is a bad thing.

Remember the next time you wear a pin in support of the poor Darfuris that you oppose any action that would change their situation as that of an imperialist capitalist western cabal.

Remember the next time you watch a movie such as "Hotel Rawanda" that when Qaddafi was threatening to kill all the "rats" in Benghazi as the Hutus tried to kill all the "cockroaches" that you appose the international intervention by the capitalist western elite.

Remember that a short war in 1935 could have prevented the Holocaust.
08:07 PM on 02/03/2012
The butcher of Darfur, Omar Bashir, the war criminal wanted by the ICC for genocide, is training the military of the new Libya government... You can see him here next to the head of the NTC during an official state visit where he bashes Qaddafi for among other things, arming the people Bashir was butchering.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-16454493
09:07 PM on 02/03/2012
And to fight Hitler we stood arm in arm with Stalin. Your point?
10:43 AM on 02/05/2012
I agree with you 100%.

Interestingly also, there is a rumor in the history of the interwar years, that Poland proposed a joint invasion of Germany to France in order to remove Hitler when he first started rearming. This request was denied as it was believed at the time that defensive actions have the advantage over offensive ones.
05:57 PM on 02/06/2012
Wouldn't surprise me. I know war was proposed at Munich and most historians believe that the Chechs had the ability to defeat Germany, even without French or British assistance.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TRUTHHURTS500
02:52 PM on 02/03/2012
China, Russia, Brazil and even S Africa know what NATO did was not what they signed up for. France and the US knew from the beginning that the mission was regime change. Just like with the Iraq war, lies were told to get everyone onboard with the Libya mission. I believe the chatter the US sent the CIA in and instigated the uprising in Libya. Not only does Libya have oil and lots of gold, but Qaddahfi was bringing the African and Arab countries together to form their own currency, the Dinar. Of course the colonialist and imperialist West saw that as a threat to their world dominance and greed. That's why Qaddahfi was killed. The US press showed the video of his vicious murder while spreading more US propaganda, now Libya is in choas and the West is robbing them blind. It's Assad and Iran today, tomorrow it will be the Latin countries. The former president of Yeman can come here for medical treatment, he also murdered his people. Mubarak was also a dictator, the US backed him until they realized the people had control and it wasn't anything they could do. The president of Yeman and Mubarak were puppets for the US government.

China, Russia, Iran and the Latin counties are all starting to buy and trade with the Yen and Gold, not the Euro and Dollar. They can't kill everyone who doesn't want to be a part of the West capitalist greed or can they?
11:53 AM on 02/03/2012
Yes for the U.S. to hold Ghadaffy down whilst his countrymen execute him should definately haunt one's soul.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Marvelousdreams
10:30 AM on 02/03/2012
This article is silent on the number of Lybians killed in order to prevent the hypothetical massacre; it is silent on the property damage caused by international intervention; it is silent about whether the lucrative contracts controlled by former President Ghafafi are finally being used for citizenry. I am glad someone has put Moon in check. He believes all unconfirmed reports.
08:18 AM on 02/05/2012
That's why he's called Yanki-Banki.
greytunes
Still looking for the Common Man
09:57 AM on 02/03/2012
Supporting a known quantity in Syria is one thing, but a repeat of Lybia, which would happen without a cohesive and established fighting force, is and should be a non-starter. Regime change is too messy and tragic to really allow the destabilization of the whole area which would jeopardize Israel above acceptable risk.
09:40 AM on 02/03/2012
Tick...Tick....Tick. Our censored news media is not giving us too much info on what is happening in the Mid East. Russia and China are siding with Iran. The US is building up a massive naval presence in the Persian Gulf and sending troops into the region. We can enjoy the big game Sunday without having to worry about a world gone mad and racing toward destruction.
Go Patriots !
photo
tedhices
I spell PC with the letters B and S
08:40 AM on 02/03/2012
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."
07:27 AM on 02/03/2012
Unless people have been refusing to read their history, they would know that the majority of revolutions are quite bloody. Revolutionary outcomes are always uncertain. The problem of course is the outcome of submitting to dictators like Qaddafi and Assad is very certain.

The right wingers have a saying "freedom isn't free", and it may be corny but it's true. The American revolution cost thousands of lives. Ending slavery in America cost 600,000 lives. The French revolution brought on Napoleon and the terror. Of course the other options are totalitarian.

IF we want to foster governments that believe in the legal defense of human rights and popular sovereignty then there is and always will be a butchers bill to pay. Ghandi and MLK were primarily successful because they were resting democratic governments.

Of course we could always say "not our problem".
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mahnistanah
my micro-bio is so empty
08:31 AM on 02/03/2012
We live in this world. We benefit from the fruits of this planet and it's people, many times to both of their determent. It is all our problem.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mendelcrosses
09:30 AM on 02/03/2012
And you will also know that revolutions are about THE PEOPLE WHOSE COUNTRY it is revolting and not a foreign invading force. NATO IS NOT a revolution organization. Like you said,revolutions arent planned and their outcomes are uncertain,NATO's missions are all pre-planned - Syria has been on their list since before 9/11.Listen to Wesley Clark,a retired 5 start general on youtube - and the outcomes we always know before hand - massacre and regime change.
06:41 PM on 02/03/2012
Which makes sense if you assume that the overthrow of a military strong government by the general populace happens in a vacuum. Last I checked our revolution required both Imperial French grand forces and Naval units for success. As well as foreigner trainers from Hessia and France.
photo
OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
07:19 AM on 02/03/2012
The US and NATO:

"Trust me, I won't kill again."

UN:

"Yeah, we've heard that before."
06:13 AM on 02/03/2012
Not Again! -
Why should anyone trust the same countries, that violated the UN no-fly zone resolution in Libya, by turning it into a no-drive zone, no-walk zone and eventually regime change? And why should anyone support international intervention in Syria, when evidence shows, that in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, far more people were killed by the interventions, than before it, and more destruction was caused by the interventions.
As bad as things are in Syria, that is nothing compared to a country being bombed and missiled from the land, sea and air, if an international intervention is authorised.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee6SdmmCN5Y
01:44 PM on 02/03/2012
Besides we don't have absolute evidence Assad is that bad. We have heresay, rumors, and a lot of hot talk begging for intervention.
05:11 PM on 02/03/2012
Assad is not an angel, but he is doing what any government would do, if they faced an armed rebellion. Those calling for international intervention do not have credibility, because they are the same people who are also arming the rebellion and therefore are not a neutral party. You can't be objective, if you are involved in the fight?
Syria has issues, that it must deal with and resolve, but is foreign intervention the solution to internal problems everywhere?
- http://www.infowars.com/media-lies-used-to-provide-a-pretext-for-another-humanitarian-war-protest-in-syria-who-counts-the-dead/