Chris Hayes And Michelle Alexander: American Prison System An 'Abomination'

MSNBC's Chris Hayes used his Saturday show to discuss what he called the "abomination" that was not being addressed in the 2012 campaign: the American prison system.

As Hayes said, there are 7 million people under some kind of correctional supervision in the United States — far more than any other industrialized country. He called this situation a scandal, and wondered why there has been more attention paid to "the actual moon" than to "the millions of souls locked inside our very own prisons."

Hayes then brought on Michelle Alexander, author of the book "The New Jim Crow," which examines the so-called "prison industrial complex."

Alexander called it a "huge challenge" to bring the issue of prisons into mainstream conversation. She said that there are many myths that need to be dispelled about prisons, such as the idea that the huge rise in prisoners over the last 30 years correlates with the drop in crime rates, or that people of color commit more drug offenses than whites.

She also condemned what she called "the rise of a virtual police state," in which "hundreds of thousands of people are stopped, searched and frisked, and enormous numbers are shuttled into prisons and jails, often for non-violent offenses."

Hayes asked Alexander to explain some of the ways that this treatment affects people. Alexander said that those who have been convicted of a felony may be stripped of the right to vote, denied the ability to serve on juries and barred from certain jobs or even public housing.

She also said that the money spent in the War on Drugs could have instead gone to "a massive infusion of investment in education and economic investment in job creation." Instead, she said, "we've spent a trillion dollars on a drug war and a prison building boom."

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Comments

[roch20]

12:54 PM on 04/16/2012

I could listen to this lady (Michelle Alexander) for hours on end, she's amazing.

[Tricia W]

02:31 PM on 02/07/2012

Text of Letter Signed By 500+ Economists:
.
"We, the undersigned, call your attention to the attached report by Professor Jeffrey A. Miron, The Budgetary Implications of Marijuana Prohibition. The report shows that marijuana legalization -- replacing prohibition with a system of taxation and regulation -- would save $7.7 BILLION per year in state and federal expenditures on prohibition enforcement and produce tax revenues of at least $2.4 BILLION annually if marijuana were taxed like most consumer goods. If, however, marijuana were taxed similarly to alcohol or tobacco, it might generate as much as $6.2 BILLION annually.

The fact that marijuana prohibition has these budgetary impacts does not by itself mean prohibition is bad policy. Existing evidence, however, suggests prohibition has minimal benefits and may itself cause substantial harm.

We therefore urge the country to commence an open and honest debate about marijuana prohibition. We believe such a debate will favor a regime in which marijuana is legal but taxed and regulated like other goods. At a minimum, this debate will force advocates of current policy to show that prohibition has benefits sufficient to justify the cost to taxpayers, foregone tax revenues, and numerous ancillary consequences that result from marijuana prohibition."

.
Given the high number of people who are incarcerated each year for marijuana offences and the high cost of housing prisoners, the $7.7 BILLION IN expected SAVINGS - seems like a reasonable place to start.

[phasechange]

01:32 PM on 02/07/2012

Another part of this problem is the institionalization of prison rape. It's become strandard fare for crime shows where the the hero humorously displays a sadistic attitude towards any suspect by threatening them with rape at the hands of other prisoners. It's so common it's now a punch line. This is all too connected with the downward slide in our sensibilities and has contributed to our acceptance of torture and the militarization of our police. We need to face the cruelty of this instiutional choice and recognize it is is a crime against humanity, and unconstitutional as cruel and unusal punishment.

[tiggs06]

01:21 PM on 02/07/2012

Maine and Vermont are the only states that allow prisoners to vote. We first need to change these state laws, then people will pay attention to the problem. And before you lame neo-cons respond, no there would obviously be exceptions for murderers, sex offenders, violent offenders etc...

To have a voice in this country you need money. To make a whisper, you at least need the right to vote. Otherwise, no legislator nor executive, left or right is going to care.

[teapot90]

10:41 AM on 02/07/2012

Alexander's book sounds great. The damage our for-profit penal system does in tandem with the for-profit GOP is mind-boggling. Millions of people, primarily minorities have been unjustly stripped of their rights as citizens and that is no accident. It is just the latest incarnation of a never-ending pattern of American slavery, an economy that naturally seeks profit at the expense of real live human captives. Another book I highly recommend on this topic is "Slavery by Another Name"

[rosiebag]

08:38 AM on 02/07/2012

Chris is not the new Cronkite, but he is the male Maddow.

[Canaris]

11:26 PM on 02/06/2012

What could possibly go wrong when you set up a penal system that provides a profit motive for keeping more people locked up for longer periods of time. Surely there wouldn't be a lobbying industry created to go along with such a for-profit enterprise, the sole goal of which is to make sure that more people are locked up for as much time as possible in order to put money in the pockets of folks like Corrections Corporation of America. Here in Florida, our Governor, Rick Scott, is actually trying to get us to believe that we need to shut down seven of our state prisons and turn them over to CCA because there just aren't enough prisoners to fill all those empty beds. The sad thing is that he actually expects us to be stupid enough to believe that. The really sad thing is that he is probably right.

[ZGuile]

07:46 PM on 02/06/2012

Right On Chris!! What an abomination!! We need to release all the prisoners immediately. Especially Manson!! He is an innocent victim of the opressive system of the man! Occupy San Quentin!

[Sinister Minister]

09:19 PM on 02/06/2012

Do you realy believe that as a population we are more criminal than any other nation?

[hhl482]

09:57 PM on 02/06/2012

Exactly. Are Americans inherently more violent than others?
We set criminals up with black markets and then arm them to the teeth. Throw in thousands of people who AREN'T criminals by any reasonable standard, you get PrisonNation - the most punitive society ever, bar none. I think it's a lot easier for people like Z to take the position that the incarcerated deserve their fate while the incarcerated are so disproportionately, how can I put this, what's the word I'm searching for here...BLACK. It's not people like ME being tossed aside - why should I care whether it's just? It's telling that his example is so atypical - a white man who committed violent crimes for which any country on Earth would punish him severely, who won't be released regardless of any reforms.

[MichaelM888]

10:33 AM on 02/07/2012

I wonder which way has your head been screwed on?

[Margo Arrowsmith]

06:33 PM on 02/06/2012

One of the facts he gave was that if they closed all the prisons in California and sent every inmate to the University of California, they would save a couple of billion dollars.

[rosiebag]

08:39 AM on 02/07/2012

Great idea, and Holder can supply the guns.

[Margo Arrowsmith]

01:12 PM on 02/07/2012

Actually, you should get the guy from the Bush administration who started it. :-D

[kkdkdkdkdk]

05:22 PM on 02/06/2012

More lefty pious blather that is out of touch with the reality of drug's destructive influence. This is so much idiocy. Here goes the poor black victim argument again. Arresting a druggy is so bad we should just let him build his business and not interrupt him as he addicts our children to drugs.

I don't think we'll handle the drug situation until we make a certain level of drug crime a felony punishable by death.

[kkcothi]

06:34 PM on 02/06/2012

Sounds like you need your meds.

[Margo Arrowsmith]

06:35 PM on 02/06/2012

No one said that, but don't you think its odd that black men arrested for the same drug crime gets more time and harsher sentences than white men?

[kkdkdkdkdk]

07:11 PM on 02/06/2012

If that is the case, certainly that's unjust. Not sure its true. But if it is it should be stopped.

[Hank007]

04:28 PM on 02/06/2012

Any other country would consider it a threat to national security to allow companies to profit from the incarceration of its citizens.

China educates, we incarcerate. Guess who's winning.

[justtryingtogetby]

03:33 PM on 02/06/2012

Keep up the great work Chris.

[ThaGovna]

03:32 PM on 02/06/2012

Preach!

[Rhonnybay]

01:28 PM on 02/06/2012

I run a reentry program and let me tell you, the system is a hot mess and its so set up for the person to fail. One private facility releases their women at all time of the night with no transportation. The facility is located in a "hot" area for prostitution....cycling them right back in basically. One woman was going to be released on a Friday and had arrangements for a shelter on Monday but had no place to stay over the weekend.

Its awful.

[Rhonnybay]

01:23 PM on 02/06/2012

We also have more children incarcerated than any other country.