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Global Climate Change Deal Ignores CO2 Emissions, Critics Argue

The Huffington Post   First Posted: 02/16/2012 4:02 pm Updated: 02/17/2012 11:47 am

A recently announced climate change agreement between the United States and several other countries aims to reduce pollutant emissions, but it is drawing some concerns from a conservation group that claims it doesn't go far enough.

Introduced Thursday by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the multinational partnership -- between the U.S., Bangladesh, Canada, Ghana, Mexico and Sweden -- is designed to reduce emissions from "short-lived climate pollutants." These pollutants, which do not remain in the atmosphere for as long as carbon dioxide, include methane, black carbon (soot) and hydroflurocarbons, explains Politico.

Environmental nonprofit World Wildlife Fund released a response statement Thursday saying they "welcomed a 'black carbon' initiative," but with reservations. The organization argues that the agreement "shifts the focus" to developing countries and continues the U.S. and Canadian trend of doing "very little" to reduce CO2 emissions.

Others contend that controlling CO2 emissions, especially during periods of global economic uncertainty, is a challenge. Durwood Zaelke, founder of the Institute for Governance and Sustainable Development, told NPR in January, "I mean, it's like picking a fight with the biggest bully in the schoolyard. You know, you get your lunch money stolen, you get your pants pulled down, and you get sent home humiliated. We've made about that much progress with CO2."

Clinton acknowledged the importance of controlling CO2 emissions, saying on Thursday, "We know of course that this effort is not the answer to the climate crisis. There is no way to effectively address climate change without reducing carbon dioxide, the most dangerous, prevalent and persistent greenhouse gas."

Samantha Smith, leader of the WWF Climate and Energy Initiative, said in a press release, "While support for poorer countries is important, [the U.S. and Canada's] primary responsibility should be to cut their own emissions and address the global challenges posed by climate change."

A 2007 report from the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change noted:

Developing countries are the most vulnerable to climate change impacts because they have fewer resources to adapt: socially, technologically and financially. Climate change is anticipated to have far reaching effects on the sustainable development of developing countries ...

WWF's Smith also said, "Cutting black carbon emissions by ensuring adequate access to energy and cleaner cookstoves is in principle good, but we should not assume that this new initiative will deliver quick results."

The U.S. State Department has more confidence in the new initiative. Todd D. Stern, State's special envoy for climate change, said, "This is very much in the win-win category -- good on climate at the same time that it's good on health, food production and energy," reported The New York Times.

The potential effects of the program over the next several decades are not insignificant. Citing research published recently in Science, the State Department claims that reducing short-lived pollutants has "the potential to reduce the warming expected by 2050 by as much as 0.5 Celsius degrees."

They claim the "low cost" measures will also prevent millions of premature deaths by 2030 and avoid "the annual loss of more than 30 million tons of crops."

Politico explains that the economic benefits of reducing short-term pollutants are also significant. In fact, "Reducing a metric ton of methane costs around $250, while the benefit is worth $700-$5,000."

Half of carbon dioxide emissions remain in the atmosphere for about a century, according to Politico, and 20 percent remains for thousands of years. Methane, on the other hand, lasts for around 12 years, "but it has around 25 times more global warming potential than carbon dioxide."

Time Ecocentric notes that reducing methane in the atmosphere will be more difficult, as "there’s little immediate public health benefit to capturing it and reducing emissions," and a major source of it is leaky natural gas wells.

Ellen Baum, a scientist with the Clean Air Task Force, told Nature, "Between what is enough and what we can actually do, this is a nice bite of the cookie.”

The new climate change partnership will begin with contributions of $12 million from the U.S. and $3 million from Canada over two years, according to The New York Times.

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A recently announced climate change agreement between the United States and several other countries aims to reduce pollutant emissions, but it is drawing some concerns from a conservation group that c...
A recently announced climate change agreement between the United States and several other countries aims to reduce pollutant emissions, but it is drawing some concerns from a conservation group that c...
 
 
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11:06 AM on 03/06/2012
Fair enough Vakh. I can tell from your comments that you're not happy.

Find a buddy - someone you can talk to. Someone steady, or at least with different problems.

You may want to take a break from the internet. Volunteer at your church or something.
04:00 PM on 02/21/2012
Oh my gosh! Look at that smokestack. It is polluting the air with..............WATER VAPOR...

That is horrible. ARRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHHH we're all gonna die.

We need to ban water vapor.

Quick, get up a petition to ban DiHydrous MonOxide. All of the enviro-nutsies around here will sign it since most never graduated the 7th grade.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jimboy71
Hen Diapheron Heautoi
10:09 PM on 02/21/2012
What is your PhD in again?
01:01 AM on 03/06/2012
Same as yours
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gallon
Those who fail to remember history are, um
06:25 PM on 02/22/2012
Luchan is slowly becoming unglued again.
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Publicola
Reality has a scientific bias
10:57 PM on 02/18/2012
U.S. National Academy of Sciences (2010):
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a strong, credible body of evidence, based on multiple lines of research, documenting that Earth is warming. Strong evidence also indicates that recent warming is largely caused by human activities, especially the release of greenhouse gases through the burning of fossil fuels...

While much remains to be learned, the core phenomenon, scientific questions, and hypotheses have been examined thoroughly and have stood firm in the face of serious scientific debate and careful evaluation of alternative explanations.

http://dels.nas.edu/resources/static-assets/materials-based-on-reports/reports-in-brief/Science-Report-Brief-final.pdf
04:03 PM on 02/21/2012
What a shame that the satellite record disagrees with your theories. No warming for the last 15 years. All while CO2 has increased linearly over that same exact time.

Not to mention that you have ZERO empirical proof that man-made CO2 causes surface warming.

That is of course, if you care to post the equation that PROVES that man-made CO2 raises surface temperatures.

What's that you say Publicola? No such empirical equation exists since the effects of CO2 on surface temperatures hasn't and can't be proved?

Why didn't you say so.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jimboy71
Hen Diapheron Heautoi
10:09 PM on 02/21/2012
Gish Gallop of lies.
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DocSkull
My questions aren't rhetorical.
09:55 PM on 02/22/2012
"the satellite record disagrees with your theories. No warming for the last 15 years."

Show us.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lambdin1
What's this?
09:40 AM on 02/18/2012
While the deal is important. The automakers and Big Oil hold to much sway over any government!
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William Howell
04:28 PM on 02/20/2012
Man the climate were I live is changing rapidly. Yesterday is was warm and raining. Today, it is sunny and cold. Unbelievable!
04:07 PM on 02/21/2012
You mean like the $25,000 that the Koch brothers contributed to the Heritage Foundation?

You are saying that the $7million per year of the Heritage Foundation is behind a worldwide conspiracy of global warming science deniers?

OR is more more likely that the 10s of BILLIONS spent by gub'mints every year on 'climate science' is the real conspiracy. Since it has NEVER been proven that CO2 does anything to increase surface temperatures (actually it is proven by Physicists that it is impossible to do what you say) and the gub'mints are really just looking for another avenue to tax and control it's citizens.

So what's more likely. $7 million from the Heritage foundation is behind a global conspiracy AGAINST global warming or that BILLIONS by gub'mints is behind a global conspiracy FOR global warming.

Don't bother to answer. You're probably not bright enough to understand the question.
06:50 PM on 02/17/2012
Look at that horrible picture.

Terrible.

That smokestack is pouring thousands of tons of vaporous DiHydrous Monoxide into the air.

We need to ban DiHydrous Monoxide ASAP.

DiHydrous Monoxide is fatal to humans even in amounts as small as 200-300 milliliters.
10:41 AM on 02/19/2012
Hah. Hah.

Why do you keep getting banned?
04:10 PM on 02/21/2012
Because folks like you are threatened by the truth.

If you weren't full of it and actually had any science to back up your nonsense you would just post it.

By the way, you have that empirical equation that proves that man made CO2 actually heats the planetary surface? Can you go ahead and post that here.

What's that you say palindrom? There is no such equation since it has never been and can't be proven that CO2 actually does what you and your enviro-nutsie friends say it does?

Ooooopsss.

That is why you and your Chinese friends keep on deleting account. The truth frightens you and your handlers.
09:01 PM on 02/21/2012
"...How many PhDs in physical science do you have? I have only one...."

And hence, according to Kevin Trenberth, since you don't have a degree in Physics you are not competent to be discussing the MATH behind the Physics of why the theory that man made CO2 is heating the planet's surface is complete nonsense.
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Counterglow
Werner Heisenberg may have been right.
06:01 AM on 02/22/2012
Oooh, clever! That joke was old when Jeebus was a pup. I guess this is the conservative version of original humour. And just out of pure curiosity, how do you know what's coming out of that stack at that moment? Bet ya don't.
01:16 AM on 03/06/2012
Bet you dont either
But you like to dispay it as onerous.
06:14 PM on 02/17/2012
Hundreds DEAD in Europe from colder than normal winter and these folks still want BILLIONS of your dollars to stop global warming.

January 2012 is the 9th coldest per the all knowing, all powerful satellite record.

But these folks are yapping that it's warm outside their mommies basement in Chicago.
12:41 PM on 02/19/2012
finally someone that knows what their talking about. they make all these claims and ignore the big stories of a really cold and snowy winter in Europe and Alaska
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jimboy71
Hen Diapheron Heautoi
10:15 PM on 02/21/2012
You're right. Because AGW means warmer temperatures increasing in a purely linear fashion all over the world, even through winter and no more snow.

Collosal.
06:13 PM on 02/17/2012
Considering that temps have flatlined for the last 15 years. The UK Met office is under investigation for continually predicting the weather wrong since they are all AGW alarmists which means they have ZERO scientific backing and are now the equivalent of religious chranks 'hoping' that it starts getting warming someday.

And since CO2 has increase linearly for the last 15 years while temps have flat lined, this in and of itself has PROVEN that CO2 has little to do with surface warming on our planet.

Of course, the folks here will continue to flog the dead "CO2 is bad" horse since the propaganda is still deeply seated in their minimal brains.
12:42 PM on 02/19/2012
fanned
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jimboy71
Hen Diapheron Heautoi
10:17 PM on 02/21/2012
"And since CO2 has increase linearly for the last 15 years while temps have flat lined, this in and of itself has PROVEN that CO2 has little to do with surface warming on our planet"

1. CO2 increase is not linear. Not remotely.

2. The last decade was the warmest on record.

3. There is no direct 1:1 correlation between CO2 and temperature.

4. Climate systems are dynamic, and multiple feeback systems exist which amortise the effects of increased heat in the climatic system.

So no, it proves nothing, because the premise and the conclusion are false.
01:19 AM on 03/06/2012
How about the last 2000 years.
OOPS sorry
It would ruin your record.
Your premise and conclusion may be proven wrong.
06:03 PM on 02/17/2012
Oh my gosh!!!!!

Look at that horrible picture.

TONS AND TONS OF horrible nasty .....water vapor........

We should ban all water vapor.

Then we should turn off the sun so it doesn't keep on throwing water vapor into our atmosphere.

Horrible Horrible stuff that water vapor.

It creates humidity and rain.

Nasty Nasty stuff.
04:21 PM on 02/17/2012
Reducing particulate matter would produce lots of bang for the buck.

Reducing CO2 is hideously expensive and would produce no measurable reduction in warming this century.

I believe I read that it would postpone 2100's warming 'till 2105.
06:05 PM on 02/17/2012
F&F

(again)
02:25 PM on 02/17/2012
Great, now the State Dept. is running cover for Canadians' evil scheme to increase CO2 pollution with tar sands.

Whose side is State on - human beings or corporate-controlled government?
01:20 AM on 03/06/2012
LOL
Theyre trying not to get lynched by the rest of us.
For believing in your nonsense.
07:55 AM on 03/06/2012
Yeah, I think we already knew where you stood.

By the way, what did you do in "construction" again - lemme guess, excavation? dry wall?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
01:13 PM on 02/17/2012
"Developing countries are the most vulnerable to climate change impacts because they have fewer resources to adapt"

America's appetite for helping developing countries like Iraq and Afghanistan is gone. Domestic issues have become the focus.
01:21 AM on 03/06/2012
Americas appetite???
Who is America????
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
11:13 AM on 03/06/2012
About 300 million people are Americans. Through a democratic process or through their elected representatives, their appetite is expressed.
01:01 PM on 02/17/2012
Fossil fuel taxes make CO2 abatement amount to revenue abatement.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
01:14 PM on 02/17/2012
Funny. I agree.
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Wanderland
Generic white guy
12:30 PM on 02/17/2012
Dealing with climate change without dealing with CO2 emissions is like balancing the budget by cutting NPR funding.
ubrew12
that crazy uncle from Amarcord
12:34 PM on 02/17/2012
No more NPR 'disinformation' + Heartland curriculum at school = no more global warming!
See how easy THAT was? Problem solved...
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
12:27 PM on 02/17/2012
Yes, a real global warming problem.
12:21 PM on 02/17/2012
The benefits of reducing particulates are real and cheap.

The benefits of reducing CO2 are imaginary and sometime in the far future.

Tens of trillions of dollars to postpone slight warming for 5 years is a bad investment.
ubrew12
that crazy uncle from Amarcord
12:40 PM on 02/17/2012
"Tens of trillions of dollars to postpone slight warming for 5 years is a bad investment­"
In fact, its so bad it might even be made up.
04:16 PM on 02/17/2012
OK how much good would it do ?

.1 ° C ? The alarmists never answer that question because the answer is embarrassing to them.
06:07 PM on 02/17/2012
You mean like the entire AGW nonsense? Just made up.

Yup. AGW is all made up. you finally got that right.
10:43 AM on 02/19/2012
Netdr, back again, with exactly the same terrible arguments and talking points as ever.

"Imaginary" benefits -- nonsense.

"Tens of trillions ... " -- nonsense.

"5 years ... " -- nonsense.
01:23 AM on 03/06/2012
SWee ypure learning the word\
Now just tweek the synapses a bit.