China Detained Tibetans, Large Numbers Forced Into Re-Education Classes, Group Says

BEIJING — China has detained and forced into re-education classes hundreds of Tibetans who went to India to receive religious instruction from the Dalai Lama, a U.S.-based human rights group said.

It is the first time since the late 1970s that Chinese authorities have detained large numbers of ordinary Tibetans and placed them into re-education classes, Human Rights Watch said in an online statement. Tibetan monks and nuns are routinely made to attend patriotic education classes.

The statement posted Thursday said the exact number of those detained was unclear, but that it was believed to be several hundred.

It said the detainees had recently returned from Bihar, India, where they had attended lectures with the Dalai Lama, the Tibetans' exiled spiritual leader who fled the Himalayan region in 1959 amid an abortive uprising against Chinese rule and is reviled by Beijing.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin said at a regular press briefing Friday that China was stepping up security measures in Tibet to prevent separatist violence or incitement in the run-up to the anniversary of the March 14, 2008, riots in the regional capital, Lhasa, that left 22 people dead.

Liu was asked by a reporter to comment on the Human Rights Watch report but didn't directly respond to the allegations and made no mention of mass detentions.

"Separatist organizations based overseas have made March of every year an important period for advocating violence and inciting separatism," Liu said. "During this period, stepped up security in Tibetan areas will help crack down on separatist and sabotage activities and maintain social stability."

Lhasa police and government officials said Friday that they were unaware of the alleged detentions.

Human Rights Watch said the Tibetans were being held in makeshift detention centers in Lhasa and other areas, including some set up at an army base, an army training center and a shelter for vagrants, as well as in hotels.

China accuses the Dalai Lama of a campaign to split Tibet from the rest of China. The Dalai Lama says he is seeking only increased autonomy for Tibet.

Human Rights Watch said around 700 ethnic Chinese also attended the Dalai Lama lectures, but that there were no reports of any of them being detained upon return to China.

Tibetan areas in the neighboring provinces of Sichuan and Qinghai have also been on tenterhooks for more than a year as more than a dozen monks, nuns and laypeople separately set themselves on fire to protest Chinese rule.

The violence has highlighted anew what Tibetan activists say is the government's failure to win over Tibetans and other ethnic minorities through policies to boost economic growth and incomes while increasing police presence and controlling religious practices to deter displays of separatism.

Comments

[Zhuubaajie]

03:13 PM on 02/19/2012

[2 of 2 on "Mie Fo"] The move was gradual.  It started with the forced removed of all monks and nuns that have prior criminal records from the monasteries, and confiscation of their ill-gotten wealth. It later grew into prohibitions against the monasteries from acquisition of estates and slaves (yes, slavery was always part of Chinese Buddhism).  In 845, 1,600 large and over 40,000 small temples and monasteries were dismantled. 260,500 monks/nuns were returned to secular life, and over half a million hectares of good farmland returned to productive use of the state. 150,000 slaves were taken from the temples.
 
4.  King Shizhong of the Hou Zhou Dynasty (954-958).  During this 5-Dynasty-10-Kingdom period (907-960), maintaining national strength was a matter of literal life or death.  King Shizhong was in the process of fighting off the onslaught of the joint invasion forces of N. Han and the Khitans.  The King declared that all self infliction of bodily harm (as part of the practice) to be illegal, and banned cultish practices such as faith healings and such.  Result: 30336 temples were razed, with 2694 left.  61200 monks and nuns were allowed to remain, and all others returned to sectarian life. 
 
The goal is clear - where the religion sect has grown too rich or powerful, and attempts to interfere with national rule, it has to be suppressed.  It will also happen in America, just give it time.

[Nyingje]

09:55 AM on 02/20/2012

Wow, you're right, religion has to be suppressed in the US, too! While we're at it, this "free speech" thing has gotten out of control. And do people really need the right to vote for their leaders? Probably not.

[Zhuubaajie]

12:53 PM on 02/20/2012

At their current rate of tax free growth, combined with modern asset management, religion will have more than half of all American asset holdings in less than another 100 years, and 90% in 200. America is only 250 years young. The time will come and it is inevitable - either it will turn into a theocratic state, or religion would have been suppressed long before then. It happened with ALL cultures in the last 5,000 years, East or West, without exception. The conflict is life or death, and innate. The fight for supremacy within the state for financial and human resources simply cannot be avoided.

So sneer all you want. It is just a matter of time.

[Zhuubaajie]

01:01 PM on 02/20/2012

Already the powerful Judeo-Christrian groups are breaking their social contracts with America. Churches are given tax exempt status, so they can accumulate wealth faster. There are also no applicable death taxes, and the Rule Against Perpetuities do not apply. In exchange, American religious groups are not supposed to get involved in politics.

Just look at the various superPACs that are funded by Judeo-Christian groups in this upcoming election. Again, it is inevitable. Either religious groups are suppressed and put in their rightful places (as facilitator between Man and whatever God or gods that sect happens to worship, not as wielder of political power), or America WILL turn into a theocratic state. It is that simple, and there is no in between.

[Zhuubaajie]

03:13 PM on 02/19/2012

[1 of 2 on "Mie Fo"]
 
"Mie Fo", or the containment of Buddhism, has long historical precedence in Chinese history.  When the nonproductive practices threaten to undo society's progress, the political leaders have to act, for the more important common welfare of all, believers and nonbelievers included.  Here's just a summary list of the more famous ones:
 
1.  King Taiwu of the Northern Wei dynasty (423-452).  Most of the N. Wei kings supported Buddhism.  King Taiwu was himself a devout Buddhist.  But he recognized that as a protected class, the monasteries were competing with the government for human and financial resources, and were weakening the nation militarily (since monks can't be drafted). Taiwu switched to Tao, and banned the royalty and the administration (senior officials) from keeping Shamans. 
 
2.  King Wu of N. Zhou Dynasty (561-578).  At that time Buddhism had grown out of control in northern China, with over 2 million monks/nuns (when the population was only 6    million), and over 30,000 monasteries - ALL outside of the state's taxing powers.  The king ordered the massive return of the monks and nuns back to secular life, and awarded many of the temples as estates to royalty and senior officials.
 
3.  Emperor Wu, Tang Dynasty (841-846).  By this time, the huge number of monks/nuns/monasteries had seriously threatened national strength. In his edict, the emperor listed in detail the many needs for suppressing Buddhism, and explained why the move is beneficial to the nation.  [Cont'd]

[Zhuubaajie]

02:17 PM on 02/19/2012

There is historical precedence in China's history for dealing with a "religion" getting too big for its breeches. The suppression of so called "religious" forces when they attempt to insert themselves in politics, is universal. The Europeans did it for centuries - at one time the Pope was so powerful that his threat of excommunication can start wars and affect the political lives of kings and lords. Vatican was put in its place when "reformists" (just another sect, but a successful one) were given financial and military support by those with power.

Buddhism was an import for China. Just like today's pampered religious bodies in the U.S., the Buddhist temples have always enjoyed preferential status - tax free accumulation of wealth, and the monks and nuns do not have to answer the draft. Over millennia, they could only grow into rich and powerful bodies, with over-ambitious players eventually taking the lead, and inevitably those ambitions run afoul of societal needs for balanced development. It is one thing when a nonproductive segment (temples are leeches; they do not produce for societal consumption) provides spiritual comfort for the weak of mind. It is totally another when that segment grows so rich and powerful that it attempts to affect politics - in the extreme cases achieving theocracy.

Tibet was such an extreme case. The 14 iterations of the Dalai as local administrator, had turned the region into an intolerable theocracy, and New China is still trying to undo the 300 years of harm.

[Zhuubaajie]

02:03 PM on 02/19/2012

In history, China's most serious societal problems were always linked to religious beliefs. The highest deaths (both in absolute numbers and fraction of population) always came with religious cults. (All the more need to suppress cults such as the FLG, and if unrepentant, now the Dalai's self-immolation sect).

Here's just two of them:

1. Bai-Lian Cult (1796-1805)

By Qing Emperor Qian Long's 51st year (1786 AD), the population had grown to 391 million. By the time the Bai-Lian cult (a Shamanistic-Taoist cult) was wiped out, the population had dropped to 275.6 million, a loss of 110 million (or about 25%). The cost to the government was 200 million taels of silver (4 years' fiscal income of the Qing Dynasty).

2. Tai Ping Uprising

The Tai Ping was a psudo Christrian cult. When it started in 1851, China's population grew back to 430 million. By the time the Qing troops finished the mop-up in 1863, China's population had been reduced to 230 million, or a loss of more than 45%. It took until 1911 for the Chinese population to grow back to 340 million.

Those are historic facts.

[Zhuubaajie]

02:00 PM on 02/19/2012

Religious or terrorist training?? There is often a fine, or nonexistent line between the two, with fanatical cults that teach self immolations. When even death cannot deter, it is time to de-legalize the entire sect. Public safety and societal stability is more important than any claim of the selfish wishes of any religious sect to interfere in the political process. Assimilation is the only viable road going forward.

Start with banning the brainwashing of children - no one below the age of 18 should be allowed to be housed or indoctrinated full time in any house of worship, be they madrasas, churches, or monasteries. A Sunday school session or two is fine, but 24 hours a day immersion of children in religious brainwashing is simply sick.

[Nyingje]

09:53 AM on 02/20/2012

It is totally delusional, to say the least, to call these self-immolations "terrorism." The self-immolations are not harming anybody except the immolators themselves, and they are obviously not intended to cause terror as they have no external victims. So it is obvious your are using the word "terrorism" here to mean "political protest for a cause that I, Zhuubaajie, don't like." The rest of what you have to say is just the kind of bizarre, fascist doublespeak that gives Westerners the creeps when it comes to China.

[Zhuubaajie]

12:48 PM on 02/20/2012

Again, when even death cannot deter, today's self immolation can easily and naturally devolve into suicide bombers that had been the scourge of the reasoned world. The Dalai and his cohorts no longer belong in such a world. Instead of seeking progress and assimilation, which had been the rule in ALL developed nations, the crazed sect seek dialing back the clock, in the name of "preservation of culture". What culture? A slave culture of dark allures, good for only the 1% on top.

If the natives have to be guided to join the 21st Century, so be it. That is the natural progress of things. Ugly things, like the past 14 iterations of the Dalai, are and should be relegated to the garbage heap of history where they belong.

[Pod-gers]

11:09 PM on 02/17/2012

>China has detained and forced into re-education classes hundreds of Tibetans who went to India to receive religious instruction from the Dalai Lama, a U.S.-based human rights group said.<

Is this group hunded by the Rothchild bank empire, or George Soros?

[Nyingje]

08:48 PM on 02/18/2012

LOL, no, this particular conspiracy is bankrolled by the Illuminati.

[kkdkdkdkdk]

07:18 PM on 02/17/2012

And China's future leader is over here saying, "Trust us." Just another typical communist facism at work. China's people will rise up one of these days and the world hasn't seen the turmoil that's going to come from that.

[AllegroTroppo]

03:18 PM on 02/17/2012

Khmer Chomsky often spoke how Chinese claim to Tibet is legitimate.

[AllegroTroppo]

03:17 PM on 02/17/2012

These re-dedication class are a travesty.
Ditto for those in Tibet community who indoctrinate Tibetan youths to self-immolate.

[Pod-gers]

11:16 PM on 02/17/2012

Hopefully the re education classes will convince some of those youths not to self-immolate.

[AllegroTroppo]

11:52 PM on 02/17/2012

that would be a definite plus!

[Nyingje]

08:53 PM on 02/18/2012

What makes you think that Tibetans are being "indoctrinated" to self-immolate? None of the Tibetan leadership (HHDL, etc.) has endorsed this extreme protest tactic.

[Zhuubaajie]

03:42 PM on 02/20/2012

You can swear all you want. Where there is smoke, more likely than not there is fire. You hear the Dalai condemning self immolation? Disowning the practice? Beijing does. So the source of the indoctrination is clear, and it has to be from the sect.

[GandenT]

01:08 PM on 02/17/2012

The article fails to mention that the PRC invaded Tibet in 1949 when the PLA marched in; otherwise there would have been no "Chinese rule" to have an uprising against in 1959.

[Pod-gers]

11:17 PM on 02/17/2012

The so called uprising in 1959 was planned and paid for by the CeyeA.

[GandenT]

10:52 AM on 02/21/2012

No it was "planned" by Tibetans to prevent the kidnapping of the Dalai Lama

[Geauterre]

01:07 PM on 02/17/2012

These people of Tibet want their country back. Okay. So, yo, people of China. What say? Gonna give 'em back their country or what? What? You're telling us to mind our own business? Huh? You're telling us you hold trillions (I thought it was just over one) of our bonds, and you can hurt our economy at will? Huh. Well, let's hold off on making any rash decisions here . . . and think about this a moment. The moment passed. Ah, you know . . . we're not too keen on theocracies anyway.

[Pod-gers]

11:18 PM on 02/17/2012

Perhaps we could set an example and give back Hawaii?

[Geauterre]

02:03 PM on 02/18/2012

Let's not go overboard.

[Odeemgawa]

12:58 PM on 02/17/2012

'social stability' is the metaphor, represson of ethnic minorities is the reality

[Camis]

12:31 PM on 02/17/2012

Thank you for this article. Please keep covering this story. The situation in Tibet has reached a new level of crisis. Life has become unbearable. As of today, there have been 24 self-immolations intended to bring the world's attention to the brutality of the CCP in Tibet. Tibet never belonged to China. And no country "liberates" another one through labor camps, racist repression, and killings. The global community must stand up to China, or else we may as well stop pretending that we care about human rights and religious freedom.

[Hoodooman]

12:28 PM on 02/17/2012

Do we have "re-education" classes yet?

[AllegroTroppo]

03:20 PM on 02/17/2012

Yes, of course. It's called Chicano Studies.

[disporting]

11:34 AM on 02/17/2012

Sad. I hope one day China will respect the Tibetan culture and people, as well as the Uyghur and Mongols. I'm not saying the USA is perfect or was, but I hope we can learn from our mistakes and become a better country.

[Zhuubaajie]

04:39 PM on 02/21/2012

Politics cannot be viewed in a vacuum. There are critical strategic reasons for the U.S. not to give back California to the natives, and China's need to hold on to every bit of territory is even more urgent, given that China has more than 4 times the population. The Tibet SAR belongs to all Chinese (Tibetan natives being part of that), and the welfare of the entire citizenry must be considered.