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European Organization For Nuclear Research: Researchers Have Found Flaw In Faster-Than-Light Neutrino Clocks

Neutrinos

AP/The Huffington Post   First Posted: 02/22/2012 4:21 pm Updated: 02/22/2012 5:51 pm

GENEVA -- Researchers have found a flaw in the technical setup of an experiment that startled the science world last year by appearing to show particles traveling faster than light.

The problem may have affected measurements that clocked subatomic neutrino particles breaking what Nobel Prize-winning physicist Albert Einstein considered the ultimate speed barrier.

Two separate issues were identified with the GPS system that was used to time the arrival of neutrinos at an underground lab in Italy, James Gillies, spokesman for the European Organization for Nuclear Research, or CERN, said Wednesday.

One could have caused the speed to be overestimated, the other could have caused it to be underestimated, he said.

"The bottom line is that we will not know until more measurements are done later this year," Gillies told The Associated Press.

The results of the experiment were received with great skepticism by scientists when they were published last September because they seemed to contradict Einstein's theory that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. That rule is fundamental to modern physics, and breaking it is seen as a step into the realms of science fiction where time travel and warp speed engines exist.

Even researchers involved in the experiment cautioned at the time that the measurements would need to be independently verified by other scientists before a genuine finding could be declared.

The experiment involved neutrinos being fired from CERN's site on the Swiss-French border to a vast underground laboratory 454 miles (730 kilometers) away at Gran Sasso in Italy.

Researchers found that the neutrinos appeared to arrive 60 nanoseconds sooner than if they had been traveling at light's speed of 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second).

The experiment's margin of error allowed for just 10 nanoseconds. A nanosecond is one-billionth of a second.

Keep clicking for more scientific milestones expected in 2012.

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  • The Higgs Boson will be discovered—or not CERN scientists have estimated that, by the end of 2012 they will have narrowed down the range of possible masses of this elusive particle enough that they'll either find it or discover that they can't find it with the technology available. In either case, 2012 will be a huge year for particle physics and for human understanding of the universe in general.

  • China will ramp up its space program China will send two manned missions into space in 2012 for its Shenzhou program, which looks to flourish next year. These launches will be part of the same initiative that took Yang Liwei into orbit in 2003 and made China only the third country in the world to independently send a person into space. With NASA still soul-searching after the recent end of the Space Shuttle program, the Shenzhou program may be the beginning of a push to level the playing field, and 2012 will bring hints of how much success China can expect.

  • IBM will complete Sequoia supercomputer IBM expects that the device will set new records for processing rates, reaching a speed of 20 petaflops and doubling the processing speed of the current record holder. In 2009, <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/158790/us_orders_massive_supercomputer_to_manage_nuclear_stockpile.html" target="_hplink">PCWorld reported</a> that Sequoia will be "located at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California and used primarily to manage the U.S.'s aging stockpile of nuclear weapons." IBM has stated that the computer, which will occupy an area slightly larger than a tennis court, will also be used to study "astronomy, energy, the human genome and climate change." Image: A similar IBM supercomputer, via Argonne National Laboratory.

  • Alan Turing Year Alan Turing, perhaps the single most important figure in the history of computers, would turn 100 in 2012, and an international consortium has designated 2012 as Alan Turing Year. Turning is well-known for his key contributions to British cryptography during World War II; following his death, he became an important figure in the LGBT movement, having been driven to suicide after he was persecuted for being gay.

  • The Mars Science Laboratory will touch down NASA's Mars Science Laboratory (MSL) will become the largest Mars rover ever to touch the red planet's surface when it lands on or around August 6, 2012. <a href="http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/mission/" target="_hplink">According to NASA</a>, the purpose of the mission is to assess the habitability of the planet, conducting chemical, geological and meteorological analysis of data that its advanced equipment can gather. For more details on the equipment, see <a href="http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/mission/instruments/" target="_hplink">the mission's website</a>.

  • The Piltdown Man hoax marks its 100-year anniversary In December, 1912, an amateur archaeologist named Charles Dawson presented fragments of a skull purportedly belonging to a 'missing link' to the Geological Society of London. It took over 40 years for the specimen to be conclusively labeled a hoax, and it turned out that the 'Piltdown Man' was nothing more than a human cranium, an orangutan's jaw and chimpanzee teeth. As one of the most famous scientific hoaxes of all time, this date was a landmark in the history of the dark side of science. The above video goes into further detail.

  • More science anniversaries In 1912, Casimir Funk first described vitamins and Alfred Wegener proposed the theory of continental drift (pictured). In 1812, Napoleon first authorized the use of what would become the metric system, Pierre-Simon Laplace laid the groundwork for much of statistics in his 'Théorie analytique des probabilités.'

  • More science birthdays In 1912, science celebrates the birth of Nobelists <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_T._Seaborg" target="_hplink">Glenn Seaborg</a> (pictured), <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman" target="_hplink">Milton Friedman</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Emil_Palade" target="_hplink">George Emil Palade</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Axelrod" target="_hplink">Julius Axelrod</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mills_Purcell" target="_hplink">Edward Mills Purcell</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Kantorovich" target="_hplink">Leonid Kantorovich</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Emil_Bloch" target="_hplink">Konrad Emil Bloch</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_C._Brown" target="_hplink">Herbert C. Brown</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Luria" target="_hplink">Salvador Luria</a>, as well as rocket scientist <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun" target="_hplink">Werner von Braun</a>

  • <strong>The world won't end</strong> When December 21, 2012 comes and goes without the earth <a href="http://news.discovery.com/space/david-morrison-nibiru-2012.html" target="_hplink">colliding into a planet</a> or getting sucked into a black hole (as some predictions suggest) it will be a good day for science. Ever since theories of the 2012 armageddon came into public consciousness, astronomers have been hard at work dispelling the claims. The ancient Mayan calendar (a part of which is pictured above), which will complete a cycle of its longest measurement of time on that date, is used as evidence of the impending doomsday scenarios. <a href="http://www.anthro.psu.edu/faculty_staff/docs/Webster_GermanyMaya.pdf" target="_hplink">Scholars of ancient Mayan culture</a> (link in PDF), however, have noted the absurdity of this claim and its <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm" target="_hplink">similarity</a> to the panic surrounding Y2K.

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GENEVA -- Researchers have found a flaw in the technical setup of an experiment that startled the science world last year by appearing to show particles traveling faster than light. The problem may...
GENEVA -- Researchers have found a flaw in the technical setup of an experiment that startled the science world last year by appearing to show particles traveling faster than light. The problem may...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
loveO
A plague on both their houses
03:01 AM on 03/04/2012
Without a mathematical proof that proves that the speed of light is a constant maximum speed in the universe, the only way to know is as experiment.

But it's pretty obvious when things with as much energy as a gamma ray will travel at the same speed as the light waves from your cigarette lighter shows this to be true.

Just like objects of different weights will fall at the same speed, it's things like that, that make mathematics one of the most amazing concepts of the human mind.
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loki
cheap politicians for sale
12:26 AM on 02/27/2012
the funny part about this is the way the retraction was done. Front page all over the world when they said it happened. Now that they are saying, well, maybe its not really so.... its buried in the back. lol
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Goffy
Linpossible Linzilla Linferno Lintegrity Lintastic
08:52 PM on 02/25/2012
Nearest star system Alpha Centauri is about 2.2 light years away.
If Albert Einstein is correct on light speed limit and that is a big if...
Then humanity will forever stranded on the 3rd rock from the Sun.
Consider the our solar system is part of 3rd rock neighborhood.
Teleportation, Wormhole technology of the future is useless for interstellar travel simply because universal speed limit dictated by Einstein.
What is Einstein is wrong?
The only way out of this dilemma is, light speed is not constant at 186.282 mi/sec , it varies from regions to regions in deep space. This could be explained by the uneven gravitational fields in deep space.
When comes to deep space explorations, we are thinking like "flatlanders". There are simply too much unknowns which can change our understanding of universe, thus change physics and laws as we know.
What if Albert Einstein is wrong? The chances are good in this case. We have just begun our journey.
01:04 AM on 02/26/2012
OK... how many times do you want to prove that you don't understand physics?

Alpha Centauri is 4.4 lightyears away, not 2.2.

"If Albert Einstein is correct on light speed limit and that is a big if...
Then humanity will forever stranded on the 3rd rock from the Sun."

Nope. If he is right, and muons are proving every day that he is, relativity allows travel with next to zero eigentime, meaning you can go to the end of the visible universe in less than a human lifetime... you just can't come back to your own time. You couldn't do either travel if he would be wrong.

"Teleportation, Wormhole technology of the future is useless for interstellar travel simply because universal speed limit dictated by Einstein. "

And neither are necessary because light can travel the distance of the universe in the same time, zero, as a foot of distance.

"What is Einstein is wrong? "

He is guaranteed to be wrong on some level. But it's not going to be the level you are dreaming about.

OK... I think I had enough of responding to this nonsense.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Goffy
Linpossible Linzilla Linferno Lintegrity Lintastic
01:39 PM on 02/26/2012
Now that's utter nonsense...Swift
Whether its 4.4 lightyears or 2.2 lightyears to nearest star is a moot point. Btw, we both are wrong. its 4.2 lys to be exact.
Light can't travel the distance of the universe in the same time. because the light you seen from Alpha Centauri is not the same light (photons) from the star in the same time zone. Its light (photons) was emitted towards Earth 4.2 years ago. So who is the one don't understand simple physics, Swiftjonathan?
The distance is so immense between stars, it would take Voyager I spacecraft 73,000 years to arrive Alpha Centauri.
The only way to travel such great distance say to the next Galaxy, is to either increase speed (break light speed limit and other physical limits) of to shorten time of travel (time warp), aka time travel. Anything short of either one is dreaming. Albert Einstein is old school..Any genius out there?
04:45 PM on 02/25/2012
Many theoretical physicists around the world are probably going through variants of "I told you so," and perhaps making gratuitous shots at people who wanted Einstein to be wrong. Tthis episode is a text-book case of how science is done and in this instance it was done very publicly. Scientists do experiments or make theories and test them against other theories and observations and then put their results out for comments and criticisms by their peers. Usually this takes place in seminar rooms and lecture halls in front of groups of experts and the atmosphere can be electric and scientists sometimes become deeply passionate about a point of view. The purpose of this exercise is Natural Selection: Only the good ideas survive and the really good ones, like Relativity, become a fundamental part of the infrastructure.

For the FTL Neutrinos there was a very healthy scientific debate and many papers on the Theoretical Physics archive (ArXiv.org) discussed what the error possibly was, how it might or might not be a signature of extra dimensions or, more tellingly, how the stated result was internally inconsistent. It finally seems to have been a measurement error.

I think the guys at CERN should be proud of what they did: They did the best they could, ran with a controversial result, put it up for peer review and made us all think in a new direction for a bit. The result was ultimately wrong but this was excellent science.
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JShankel
I want my country forward
08:57 PM on 02/23/2012
But the scientists just couldn't admit they were lost and pull over and ask for directions, am I right ladies?  And what's the deal with Grape Nuts?  No grapes!  No nuts!
11:42 PM on 02/23/2012
???
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Phreaked
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night
05:44 PM on 02/23/2012
LMAO

And when this originally came out all the science deniers were all over this claiming that if we didn't know this answer then all of science was invalid (most claims were against evolution and climate science)
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JShankel
I want my country forward
08:58 PM on 02/23/2012
Yeah, just wait until they find out the Higgs Boson is a couple of percent heavier or lighter than theory predicts.  That proves that humans rode dinosaurs onto the ark.
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
08:07 AM on 02/24/2012
The damnable cads! They rode the dinosaurs in, and then ate them on the voyage!
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01:43 AM on 02/25/2012
"One could have caused the speed to be overestimated, the other could have caused it to be underestimated, he said."
Time will tell.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
02:34 PM on 02/25/2012
Yes?   And your problem is?   Why is it creationists are always wrong and have nothing of value to contribute to science.
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05:00 PM on 02/23/2012
The jury is still out, but this was too big a discovery to be true. It would have turned so much of Physics upside down.
09:48 PM on 02/23/2012
Why would it have turned physics upside down? Please explain.
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10:31 PM on 02/23/2012
Because "nothing can travel faster than light in vacuum" is one of the essential assumptions in the 1905 Special Theory of Relativity, and carried over into the General Theory of Relativity. Much of modern Physics (on the large scale) is based on those theories. If basic assumption in any theory is proven wrong, the whole theory becomes suspect.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Agnt Duke
Just assume a #sarcasm tag
04:00 PM on 02/23/2012
I find it discouraging that the results of a three year test were simply thrown out with the bath water because they did not confirm their expectations. Sometimes the advances of science dispells previous notions, including Einstein's theories.

We can't hold on to them or go "looking for problems with the test" simply to pay homage to a man the scientific community has all but diafied. Surely they would have discovered problems earlier than this and corrected them then? Sure, they are facing a backwash of critics, and they want things to hold up to scrutiny, but to go looking for problems seems a bit much.
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04:15 PM on 02/23/2012
"I find it discouraging that the results of a three year test were simply thrown out with the bath water because they did not confirm their expectations."

That's not what happened at all. The results of the experiment demanded extraordinary proof, and in the search for that extraordinary proof, it appears that a flaw in the experiment was identified which produced the extraordinary results. That's how it's supposed to work.

"Going and looking for problems" is exactly how good science is strengthened and improved.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Agnt Duke
Just assume a #sarcasm tag
08:51 PM on 02/23/2012
My understanding of this is not limited to the info in this article, btw. My point was that they got a result they didn't expect, and they went searching as to that reason why. They're not even sure that, with this issue they found, if the results will not be any different.

My comment was simply that they went looking for a reason when it didn't give them the results they wanted. That's all. I mean, this was 3 years of testing, and now they're saying one loose cable skewed 3 years of work? They're doing it because they backlash they got from their results made them panic and start looking for other reasons.

Again, what they found does not negate their findings at all. They won't even have a sure answer on this for months. It's issues like this that raise questions when viable results *are* obtained, when the answer isn't what you want...etc. al. Same issues have arisn with global warming issues, and it's tended to backfire.
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JShankel
I want my country forward
09:01 PM on 02/23/2012
What part of "they found a problem with the instruments" evades you?  These are complex experiments.  They're not making frickin' pop tarts.

And no one deifies Einstein.  Quite to the contrary, he ruined his reputation in the last decades of his life by foolishly persuing field unifications that were shown to be impossible and by denying the underlying physicality of quantum theory.  He couldn't get arrested in physics during that period.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Agnt Duke
Just assume a #sarcasm tag
09:06 PM on 02/23/2012
"And no one deifies Einstein."

Ah! You hit the nail on the head, and the *core* of my issue. Anyone that suspects he may have been wrong must automatically have had a "screw loose." (in this case, it was a loose cord, genius).

My whole point is that they were too afraid of the results to just accept them and move on. Instead, they looked for reasons they must have been wrong. C'mon. That's why these things are called theories, man. Get over it.
12:15 PM on 02/23/2012
It is entirely possible that the speed of light has been misrepsented all these years and as better measuring deivces are used we find the speed of ligh to be a bit more than recorded. nanoseconds is a far cry from warp speeds...............
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WI Patriot
Defending the Constitution.
01:24 PM on 02/23/2012
I would say it lends support to warped spacetime inside the earth from gravity - A meter on the surface of the earth is larger than a meter inside the earth....
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Phreaked
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night
05:42 PM on 02/23/2012
"A meter on the surface of the earth is larger than a meter inside the earth"

No it isn't a meter is a measure of distance, one which does not change based on location or based or gravity.

You are also confusing the amount of gravity at our core with that seen when looking at super massive objects like black holes. The gravity our planet emits does not warp space-time to the degree that would be required for what you are referring to, gravity is directly proportional to mass not pressure, gravity does not increase as you get closer to the center of the planet, pressure does.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JShankel
I want my country forward
09:02 PM on 02/23/2012
That or this one instrument is slightly misaligned.  You know, either or.
11:00 AM on 02/23/2012
Instead of clocking neutrino particles how about looking to see if neutrino particles are present prior to the actual event. Wouldn't this suggest that the neutrinos were present prior to the event having travled backwards in time.
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
08:11 AM on 02/24/2012
The time of flight measurement betwen CERN and Gran Sasso necessarily involves their detection as they are both leaving CERN and arriving at Gran Sasso. They most certainly leave before they arrive.
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acarioti
Al Carioti lives in Orlando, Flo
10:50 AM on 02/23/2012
Einstein did not theorize that matter cannot travel faster than light. He stated it can not ACCELERATE to the speed of light.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
bigbe
I can't remember the last time I forgot something.
12:41 PM on 02/23/2012
Which would account for the fact that the universe expanded much faster than the speed of light in the nanaoseconds following the big bang (if it actually happened). I also have a problem with quasars since some of them seem to be rotating faster than the speed of light if my understanding is correct.
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
10:04 AM on 02/24/2012
Your understanding is not correct.

Google `inflation' and `superluminal motion'.

Nothing at odds with general relativity.
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WI Patriot
Defending the Constitution.
01:23 PM on 02/23/2012
It could also lend support that they still went the speed of light, just that spacetime is warped inside the earth.

For example - a 1 meter yeardstick on the surface is actually less than 1 meter deeper in the earth, so the neutrino did cover the one meter in distance inside the earth -
04:02 PM on 02/23/2012
that is only true if by your argument then a dozen of whatever is less than twelve when underground. a yardstick does not measure a meter, it is a representation of a given value of length, not the specific length not to mention they represent different systems of measurement. in science certain items have a given value that NEVER changes and units of measure are included in them.ALL units of measure, degrees, mass, length, time etc. they cannot by definition ever change unless the definition changes ie turning an apple into an orange.
10:41 AM on 02/23/2012
Yes Yes yes .. I told y all ... Yes!!! that s good that they checked, checked re-checked , re-checked and recheckd their experiment
10:32 AM on 02/23/2012
how fast does radio paths or waves of gonfusion refuse or refute the mix of stright path trebble compared to the incressing depths of bass could signafie path to pass from transmitter to recivings of nuclear still is unclear to the binding time of speackers or microbialphonics
Rexter
Question everything.
10:30 AM on 02/23/2012
Gravitational time dilation and frequency shift influences the passage of time.
10:46 AM on 02/23/2012
depends own how long you stare at the sun of before or after deafness of the blinded teachers of theolygies
10:18 AM on 02/23/2012
nerds,recivers,bicivers,tricivers,quadrasphereacle, spereaperifacals senders of cryptology encrypted undechyperable itelligence of if words exist at all or was that the sounds before or after a brighter idea proven or research to improvise into narrowminded rabbits of the faster racers
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10:25 AM on 02/23/2012
Exactly!
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jtcbrt
The Dude abides.
11:00 AM on 02/23/2012
Indubitably