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'Mademoiselle' Gets Boot In New French Rules

French Woman

By ANGELA CHARLTON   02/22/12 01:52 AM ET  AP

PARIS -- Forget what you learned in French class about "madame" and "mademoiselle." The French government now says women's marital status shouldn't matter, at least when it comes to this country's far-reaching bureaucracy.

A new circular from the prime minister's office Tuesday orders officials to phase out the use of "mademoiselle" on administrative documents.

Until now, a woman has been required to identify herself as a married "madame" or an unmarried "mademoiselle" on everything from tax forms to insurance claims and voting cards. France offers no neutral option like the English "Ms."

Men don't face this issue: Their only option is "monsieur," married or not.

It's all the more strange given that French young people widely shun matrimony, and more than half of French children are born to unmarried parents.

Feminist groups have been pushing for the abolition of the "mademoiselle" option for years and hailed the circular.

"Everywhere we are asked to declare our marital status. This is not imposed on men, it's not important whether they are married," said Julie Muret of the group Osez le Feminisme.

Still, proponents of the change said they were wary that the move was only aimed at vote-grabbing.

"We're not stupid, we know we are in an election campaign season. So we will be vigilant to see that it is in fact applied," she said.

Her group and a sister movement, Chiennes de garde, are lobbying candidates for the presidential elections in April and May to sign on to other pledges such as reducing the pay gap between men and women, supporting the right to abortion and birth control, and limiting sexist advertising.

They also urged private companies to follow the government's lead: even ordering groceries online in France requires a woman to identify herself as madame or mademoiselle.

The government has sought to reduce the use of the madame vs. mademoiselle tickboxes in the past, but to little avail.

This week's circular notes "the persistence of terms referring, without justification or need, to women's matrimonial situation."

It asks ministries and regional administrations to "eliminate as much as possible from their forms and letters" the term mademoiselle, maiden name and references to a spouse's last name.

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01:58 AM on 02/26/2012
I always preferred Ms., which isn't new - I believe it's been around since the 70's. IMO "Miss" is appropriate for an underage girl (like when you write an address on birthday card for a 13 year old girl) but not for anybody who is an adult.
ewwthatsnasty
My micro-bio is as empty as your head.
07:21 PM on 02/24/2012
anyone who speaks french must have lol'd at that name: "Chiennes de garde" ha
01:00 PM on 02/28/2012
Bonjour Madame ewwthatsnasty,
"Chiennes de garde" = guard dogs, no ?
Are they poodles, toy poodles ?
Pourquoi "ewwthatsnasty" ?
Au revoir Ti amo.
ewwthatsnasty
My micro-bio is as empty as your head.
08:46 PM on 02/28/2012
not dog. dog is male, chien in french. chienne is female. so it's not dog. it's FEMALE dog. rhymes with itch.

and ti amo is not french
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Sarah C
03:33 PM on 02/24/2012
that"s dramatic,now,the men will never know if we are free or not!!!
12:26 PM on 02/28/2012
Bonjour Madame Sarah C,
Other European countries are also eliminating the Miss form of address.
One need not be free but one should be reasonable, no ?
My girl friend went back to her husband, one just can't trust women.
Au revoir Ti amo
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Sarah C
05:48 PM on 02/28/2012
to be three or not to be, sorry, joke,
the girls say the same about men,
trust has no sex!!!
ciao
01:28 PM on 02/24/2012
Mais que devient alors "Le Mademoiselle" accolé au nom ou au prénom de certaines célébrités ou actrice, tragédiénne ou comédienne?
But that becomes ' The Mademoiselle ' associated with the name or with the forename of certain celebrities or actress or tragedian?
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shortguy54
Short, balding, brilliant... (well, maybe not so)
11:38 AM on 02/24/2012
Standards are declining everywhere, even in France. When I was young, "female" referred to animals, humans were women. Of course, it's worse in Germany, where I live. That language has grammatical gender: man is a he, a woman is a she, but a girl is an "it".
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vars2
02:15 PM on 02/24/2012
So ?§?
This post is talking about a fact in France, not in Germany !
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ladameennoir
Child of the Reagan 80s
05:50 PM on 02/24/2012
If I am not mistaken the origin of grammatical gender is in the sound of the word, not its meaning.
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shortguy54
Short, balding, brilliant... (well, maybe not so)
02:55 AM on 02/25/2012
Actually not, it's completely arbitrary!
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Tre Members
Inna world fulla hate, Love is revolution
11:31 AM on 02/24/2012
How is Ms. neutral? I thought Ms. was an unmarried woman and Mrs. is a married woman, isn't this the same as Mademoiselle and Madame?
01:29 PM on 02/24/2012
Miss is unmarried. Mrs. is married. Ms. is if you're unsure.
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Tre Members
Inna world fulla hate, Love is revolution
01:50 PM on 02/24/2012
Thanx for the clarification...
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JackieSmith890
04:59 AM on 02/27/2012
it doesn't mean "unsure." it makes absolutely no reference to marital status, that's the point. a woman who is married or not is referred to as ms. it doesn't matter and it shouldn't. women shouldn't have to be defined by whether or not a man owns them (which is what marriage is anyway).

a man is called mr. before or after marriage and ms. is the equivalent.
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minidriver
Your micro-bio is empty
11:24 AM on 02/24/2012
Wow, we may someday be able to just use a person's name rather than attaching an honorific.
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07:32 AM on 02/24/2012
- Look here, Ms. - when I bought this parrot not an hour ago, you told me...
- What do you mean, Ms....?
- Sorry, I have a cold. But about this parrot...
03:41 AM on 02/24/2012
From a bureaucratic perspective, marriage-neutral honorifics are preferable because of equality and deterring discrimination due to disclosure. However, as a single woman in her twenties, I'm fond of Romanic diminutives during conversation (e.g., Mademoiselle, Signorina, and Señorita). They're cute and conspicuously convey/confirm youthfulness.

Côte d'Azur, I miss you -- sun, salacious soirees, and champagne showers!
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Palaver
Men make laws, but the people follow custom.
01:07 PM on 02/24/2012
As if marriage was an inhibition in today's society!

I suppose women would appreciate that men not moderate their advances in considering her husband or family. Let us not have that dreary subject brought up in an accidental honorific.
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Highball
In Blackest Night
09:08 PM on 02/23/2012
OK, so you're supposed to refer to everyone as Madame?

That makes me sad. I understand the concept, and I agree with it. But Mademoiselle is a nicer word, and referring to a young woman of say 18 as Madame will sound extremely weird.

Oh well. :(
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E V
11:13 PM on 02/23/2012
It's a nice word, by itself. But in conversation it doesn't flow very well imo.
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06:06 AM on 02/24/2012
Only on paper!
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EdinFL
It is what it is.
07:47 PM on 02/23/2012
Monsieur Catherine Deneuve, it's a pleasure to meet you.
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ProgressivesWin
TeaParty? We don' need no steenkin' TeaParty
07:00 PM on 02/23/2012
Equality for all. A GOOD thing.
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Palaver
Men make laws, but the people follow custom.
01:17 PM on 02/24/2012
Mais, oui. I approach all women as if they are single. Marriage and family is temporary, but love is forever like the moon, nocturnal.
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ProgressivesWin
TeaParty? We don' need no steenkin' TeaParty
02:06 PM on 02/24/2012
Poetic as h*ll!
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JackieSmith890
05:02 AM on 02/27/2012
no woman wants you to approach her. get that through your head.
06:57 PM on 02/23/2012
Ha! I like this. Terms like these will die out naturally but it doesn't hurt to give them a little shove.
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AcaciaJ
06:51 PM on 02/23/2012
What a non issue.
07:52 PM on 02/23/2012
To you, not to women who are discriminated against depending on whether they are married or single, younger or older.
01:46 AM on 02/26/2012
That's true. If you're an older woman who has never been married, being called "Miss" has negative connotations. It implies you're an old maid or a spinster.
06:43 PM on 02/23/2012
This is progress. Good for them.