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Posted: 03/05/12 03:06 PM ET

Bill McKibben And Ezra Levant Debate Keystone XL Pipeline Pros And Cons

Should the Keystone XL pipeline project be permitted in the U.S.?

The proposed pipeline -- which would travel from Alberta's tar sands oil deposits to Gulf Coast refineries in the U.S. -- has drawn strong responses from individuals on both sides of a growing debate.

Supporters contend that the pipeline will create thousands of jobs and lower gas prices in the U.S. Opponents claim that the pipeline will carry oil which will contribute to climate change and a spill along the pipeline route could impact a large drinking and irrigation water source in Nebraska.

President Obama rejected TransCanada's permit for the Keystone XL in January, but his decision still leaves an opportunity for the company to reapply for permission to build the international pipeline.

In the first installment of our Change My Mind debate series, we challenge two leading voices in the debate to defend their views on the Keystone XL project.

Speaking against the Keystone XL is author and environmentalist Bill McKibben. He is the co-founder of 350.org and a leading voice in last year's Tar Sands Action protests against the Keystone XL.

His challenger is Canadian lawyer and author Ezra Levant. A columnist for Sun Media newspapers and a conservative commentator on the Sun News Network, Levant is also the author of 2010's "Ethical Oil: The Case for Canada's Oil Sands."

Join the debate below, and see if Bill or Ezra change your mind.

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Pre-debate poll:

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The Keystone XL pipeline project should be permitted in the U.S.

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Who makes the better argument?

Ezra Levant Author, 'Ethical Oil'

One day scientists will invent a fuel source that is perfect in every way -- environmentally sustainable, affordable, practical -- so we can replace the imperfect fuels we use now, like oil. But that hasn't happened yet, and isn't likely to happen this week -- which is when most American families will need to fill up their cars with gas.

Until that fantasy fuel of the future is invented, we have a choice: ethical oil from Canada, or conflict oil from OPEC dictatorships. There really isn't a third option. Out of the top ten countries ranked by oil reserves, Canada is the only western, liberal democracy on the list. Gentle countries like Switzerland, or Belgium, or Holland -- the chocolate-making superpowers -- just don't have oil. It's us, or the world's terrorists and bullies.

Some professional lobbyists like James Hansen -- his day job is to work at NASA, but the bulk of his income comes from his green activism -- have demonized Canada's oilsands, and have called for their production to be stopped. That didn't work, so now he's calling for their pipelines to be blocked. He has yet to bring that same anti-Canada passion to Saudi Arabia or Iran. Anti-oilsands activism has made Hansen a celebrity millionaire. In an OPEC country, it would make him dead.

Which proves the point about Canadian oil. It burns the same in your gas tank as conflict oil does. It just harmed human rights, peace, workers and the environment less on its way to America than OPEC oil did.

The Keystone XL pipeline would bring about 800,000 barrels of oil a day from Canada to Texas. By coincidence, that's the same amount of oil that Venezuela currently ships to Texas. So it offers a very stark choice between ethical oil from a liberal, peace-loving democracy, or conflict oil from the bully of South America.

Hansen has said Keystone XL would be "game over for the planet" because of the carbon footprint of the oilsands. But, according to the Obama Administration's own well-to-wheels analysis of greenhouse gases, oilsands oil has a lower carbon footprint than Venezuelan oil -- some of the heaviest oil in the world.

It is true that oilsands oil has a trace amount more carbon dioxide per barrel than Saudi Arabian conflict oil. But would it really be "game over" for the planet?

Andrew Weaver doesn't think so. He's a lead author on the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report. Weaver's a staunch climate change believer, but he just published a study in the scientific journal Nature that found the oil sands emit a statistically insignificant amount of greenhouse gas. If all 170 billion barrels of recoverable oilsands oil were burned up all at once, Weaver says it "would be almost undetectable at our significance level," his research found. That's not "game over." That's not even a "game changer." It's 0.03 degrees -- over 100 years.

"Coal presents a climate challenge 1500x [times] greater than that presented by the oil sands," Weaver found. Maybe it's politically easier for Americans like Hansen to criticize Canadian oil than U.S. coal-fired power plants.

Almost all the accusations by professional anti-oilsands lobbyists fall apart on inspection. They claim that oil sands developers are leveling Canada's Boreal forest, when, in fact, just one percent of one percent -- 0.01 percent -- of the forest's 1.4 billion acres is being mined for oil sands production, and all of that must be reclaimed after (and 61 square km already has been). They claim that the oil sands are polluting the air and water and causing cancers in nearby native communities, despite thorough investigations by health regulators and the Royal Society of Canada that have found no sign of unhealthy environmental contamination.

If the anti-oil sands lobbyists who pressured Barack Obama to reject the Keystone XL pipeline proposal really cared about carbon emissions, they'd have directed all their energy, all those months of lobbying, to campaigning against coal power instead. It's not only the far bigger carbon emitter - of real air pollution, not just carbon dioxide. And, unlike oil, it's actually one with feasible alternatives. We're already energizing power grids with nuclear power and gas (natural gas, for instance, produces half the emissions for the equivalent power output, compared to coal, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and it's increasingly economically competitive with coal since there's now so much U.S. gas available).

What we don't have is a feasible alternative to oil. It's true that some electric vehicles have trickled onto the marketplace, but their impact can only be marginal: they're expensive, suffer limited range and require intensive charging periods of several hours. Electric motors, meanwhile, are useless for air travel and trucking. And we'll still rely on oil as an ingredient in thousands of products we use every day, from computers to aspirin. Daniel Yergin, the highly regarded, Pulitzer prize-winning energy analystsays that in "the most optimistic case, it's hard to see more than three percent of vehicles being electric by 2020."

Stopping Keystone XL won't stop the oil sands -- China is waiting eagerly to buy what American won't. If the oilsands will be produced anyways, why would America choose conflict oil instead?

Surveys tell us Americans want more ethically produced Canadian oil to displace the conflict oil from OPEC they've been forced to rely on for so long. Science tells us the oil sands are nothing like the catastrophe its enemies claim. Those trying to stop Keystone XL aren't achieving anything except keeping Americans dependent on OPEC's conflict oil.

Bill McKibben Author of a dozen books, including 'The End of Nature' and 'Deep Economy'

This is a bad project in every dimension. Let's start in Alberta and move our way down the continent, around the globe, and out into the atmosphere.

  1. Because this low-grade oil won't flow out of the ground, oil companies have to mine it, creating an enormous scar. Though they've only gotten three percent of the oil so far, the toxic tailing ponds are already the largest on earth, holding more liquid than the reservoir behind China's Three Gorges Dam.
  2. This has damaged the land and lives of indigenous people -- cancer rates are up and traditional ways of life impossible. Hence, virtually every Native group on the continent opposes the pipeline. Here's a great young voice explaining what it's like.
  3. The toll goes beyond the human. Millions of acres of boreal forest are being wrecked or fragmented. The Canadian government plans to poison thousands of wolves in order to protect caribou populations decimated by the mining.
  4. Now oil companies are starting to use a new technique called in situ mining, which involves burning natural gas to inject steam underground to heat the tar sands and allow oil to flow. Obviously this is a double whammy for carbon emissions, making this is in carbon terms the "dirtiest oil on earth."
  5. The biggest unions in America, including the steelworkers and autoworkers, also supported President Obama's decision to deny the pipeline permit, arguing that because "addressing global climate change, establishing sustainable and secure energy sources, and creating and retaining safe and family-supportive jobs are keys to a positive future for our children and grandchildren. President Obama has acted wisely."
  6. The jobs that would be created by pipeline construction are nothing to sneer at, even if, like all construction jobs, they are temporary. But industry's initial estimates of how many jobs would be created proved to be ludicrously high; at best, 3000 jobs or so will be created for two years, and the permanent posts will number "in the hundreds." (The whole point of a pipeline, after all, is to remove the need for labor).
  7. In fact, despite the endless fibbing on jobs best described by Stephen Colbert, the one employment study not funded by big oil showed the project would actually kill as many jobs as it would create.
  8. The big winners would be folks like the Koch Brothers, who have a tar sands refinery. And they plan to spend their profits on projects like breaking unions.
  9. The pipeline would do nothing to enhance America's energy security, because its output is slated for export. In fact, one of the big beneficiaries would be the Saudi state oil company. Billions in taxpayer subsidies underwrite this folly, including the Saudi connection.
  10. The pipeline would do nothing to change world oil prices or reduce volatility in the face of global events like a crisis in Iran, because crude prices are set by world markets.
  11. But building Keystone would raise gas prices within the U.S., by eliminating a glut of oil in the Midwest. Who says? TransCanada, the pipeline builder, reported to the Canadian government that pipeline would let them charge Americans up to $4 billion extra annually. For motorists in 15 mid-western states, that could mean an extra $3 on every 20-gallon fill-up.
  12. The pipeline poses a clear danger to the states it crosses, because the "diluted bitumen" that will flow through it is abrasive and hard to handle. The much smaller precursor pipeline leaked 12 times in its first year of operation, one leak resulting in a 60-foot geyser of crude.
  13. When it spills, the tar sands oil is even harder to clean up than regular oil, as residents along the Kalamazoo and Yellowstone rivers have discovered.
  14. TransCanada has been using eminent domain to take land from ranchers and farmers, even without a permit to build the pipeline. That's ugly, and it has united property rights activists and environmentalists.
  15. If the oil the pipeline carries safely reaches Texas and is sent abroad to be burned, that combustion will increase global warming gases in the atmosphere. Altogether, the world's tar sands have enough carbon to increase temperatures more than half a degree Fahrenheit -- or half again as much as the planet has already warmed. If we keep burning unconventional energy like tar sands, it will be "game over for the climate" according to the NASA's James Hansen. Alberta's tar sands alone, if you could burn them all, would increase carbon concentrations in the atmosphere from 392 to 540 parts per million, far past any safe level.
  16. Everyone knows the biggest reason: the longer we stay addicted to dirty oil, the longer we delay the transition to the sun, the wind, and myriad other clean ways to power our lives. (Remember: Exxon can't meter the sun).

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The Keystone XL pipeline project should be permitted in the U.S.

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Should the Keystone XL pipeline project be permitted in the U.S.? The proposed pipeline -- which would travel from Alberta's tar sands oil deposits to Gulf Coast refineries in the U.S. -- has drawn...
Should the Keystone XL pipeline project be permitted in the U.S.? The proposed pipeline -- which would travel from Alberta's tar sands oil deposits to Gulf Coast refineries in the U.S. -- has drawn...
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08:59 AM on 05/28/2013
Interesting that neither post mentioned foreign investment at both ends of the pipeline. Motiva oil refinery just completed a $10 billion expansion that makes it the largest processor of gasoline, diesel and other petroleum products in the United States, is owned by Saudi Aramco and Royal Dutch Shell in a 50-50 partnership. China, Japan etc. continue to buy up oil operations and fields in Canada. At the present time the US has a surplus of refined oil and exports the rest with no drop in prices for the rest of us. A little time spent following the money will show you a lot. Foreign companies are also buying up larger and larger shares of energy production in the US including Nat Gas and oil infrastructure. I read almost no comments regarding this part of the issue. I wonder why.
03:56 AM on 03/21/2012
I disagree with the keystone pipeline, not based on ethics or McKibben's flawed information, but as a Canadian I would rather see this resource upgraded to produce petroleum products here, improving our economy. From an American's perspective, I would be very dissappointed in the foregone economic opportunities presented by the Keystone pipeline.
Being an 'environmentalist' working in the oil sands, I have the opportunity to see both sides of the argument first hand. Levant is very compelling in his argument about ethics and I agree with much of what he says, but he enforces this dichotomy of 'environmentalism' vs 'industrialism', and that environmentalist are out to harm economic prosperity. This is a counter productive mindset, the two need to work together to develop the best outcome. 'Environmentalist' are important to show the flaws in the development and 'industrialists' provide the work and the means to address these issues. Truth be told, the oil sands are developing far too quickly and land reclamation is not able to keep up. We need to gather all the facts prior to extracting this resource and develop it in a sustainable manner.
For those of you siding with Mr. McKibben, be careful, a lot of his information is incorrect. Look at multiple sources on either side of the argument. Many environmental groups exaggerate damages, while industry backpedals making light of the situation. Truth lies somewhere in the middle. Be critical of the information before you, just because a celebrity says it doesn't mean its true.
08:44 PM on 03/19/2012
This is a great read and wonderful way to look at issues. I was Pro Ethical Oil before hand and am just as convinced now.

The idea of dirty oil encompassing far more then the carbon footprint really alters the meaning of the phrase. Oil that is the byproduct of dictatorships, killings, minimal human rights, and complete inequality in genders and religions seems to fit the definition of Dirty Oil.

Overall I appreciate the realness of the Ezra Levant argument. He is aware something better is needed but practically realizes attacking Canadian Oil is not the critical attack point.
12:17 PM on 03/19/2012
Even using this as an environmentally rallying point, one must realize that each project has consequences and benefits. In this case, there are environmental concerns which TransCanada has taken precautions to address and then there are the benefits that this project could create if given a chance. We need to give some more consideration to these projects so we can get to the future that we say that we want. Infrastructure projects like Keystone and those in the American jobs act in September (http://eng.am/xSKXzv) are what helps us to generate and build upon the economic recovery we’re talking about. But, we can’t shoot everything down that we don’t immediately like. There is something to be gained in the future from taking on something like this now especially if it’s planned right. Let’s give It more of a chance before completely rejecting it.
10:44 AM on 03/18/2012
I don't like the assumption that if you weren't convinced by either blogger you have "commitment issues". I'm in the process of reading a book on tar sands oil, and found neither blogger to actually be addressing the facts, only the same tired talking points. Upon reading how inadequate or outright biased the regulatory and health studies have been I favour the anti tar sands position. But McGibbon's blog did not convince me of this.
08:55 PM on 03/19/2012
Im not that aware of Mr. McGibbon, but I have read the Book on Ethical Oil by Ezra Levant and check out his web page frequently. He is indeed passionate and over the top when he addressees issues but he is also well researched and creates logical, and certainly conservative, conclusions .

But finding facts never seems to be a problem for any argument, or any issue, at any time.

On the simplistic view I prefer a harmonized North America and stronger Oil partnership seems a step in better direction. If there is a choice between Oil from Canada or Dictator Countries that promote the very worst the human race has to offer, then I go Canadian.
05:54 PM on 03/08/2012
"They claim that oil sands developers are leveling Canada's Boreal forest, when, in fact, just one percent of one percent -- 0.0001 percent -- of the forest's 1.4 billion acres is being mined for oil sands production,"

... I'm pretty sure that one percent of one percent is 0.01 percent..

If the Canadian Boreal forest stores approximately 186 billion tons of carbon [http://www.ec.gc.ca/cei-iee/default.asp?lang=En&n=6FE09C10-1&offset=4&toc=show], this is about a 18.4 million ton typo
03:10 PM on 03/09/2012
Thanks for the quick response and fix Huff Post!
10:43 PM on 03/07/2012
A far better question: Will rising energy prices doom Obama in November?
06:06 PM on 03/07/2012
Less reliance on oil AND coal. Clean Currents (a Canadian company) has produced an amazing turbine for use with tides, and one for use in rivers. Ezra doesn't appear to have all the facts at his finger-tips. There are many more alternatives available to use that are available for use in our country-providing more jobs for people in our country. Many people I know are switching to more walking/biking and public transit in an effort to reduce our reliance on oil. Tar sands oil is ALL (or predominantly) slated for export.
Lots of little steps by each of us make tar sands a poor choice.
12:19 PM on 03/19/2012
Laura,
Awesome response. But how can a lower reliance on oil and coal happen in a time where most people don't own cars that provide a different kind of energy? I agree that our dependency on the source is an issue, but the alternatives are not much better/ more costly than what we currently use. Why not use something like the pipeline as a kind of transition project to get to the point where we are less reliant on fossil fuels? Would love to hear back from you, thanks!
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KSofen
10:18 AM on 03/07/2012
Saudi Arabia is getting 9 billion dollars a day in oil revenues thanks to environmentalists blocking progress in Canada and holding on to provably false beliefs. Please environmentalists, take a fresh look at the big picture and REALLY save the world. Let Canada's resources save the USA and Canada and starve the evil brutal dictators of their bounty. The huge amounts of money going into Canada from oil revenue will support democracy, freedom, and scientific development. Canada is now the greatest country on Earth for freedom and personal rights. You owe it to the world to stop lying and stop obstructing the last best hope on Earth to make a difference and save the planet for real and not just wishful thinking.
12:18 PM on 03/07/2012
William Marsden, a Canadian Author, has written a revealing book concerning the Alberta Tar Sands titled "Stupid to the Last Drop". A must read for folks like you that do not the real story that is going on in the province. It is a best seller and a winner of the Business Book of the Year.
Bad deal for Alberta and ONLY good for the SUV drivers in the USA
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KSofen
12:34 PM on 03/07/2012
What is the evidence in this book? Tar is a commercial product made out of coal. The author doesn't even know that. 17 trillion into the Canadian economy and denying dictators 9 billion a day is bad for Alberta?
04:33 PM on 03/07/2012
The huge amounts of money going into Canada from oil revenue will poison them just as it does every country. Say goodbye to democracy, freedom and scientific development. Say hello to a country run by greedy politicians.
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KSofen
10:18 AM on 03/07/2012
The environmentalists opposing oilsands resource development need to look at the long term. If the Northern Gateway and XL Piplines are built out completely, it means that Canada can market all the oilsands resources to the world market. This will result in 17 trillion dollars into the Canadian economy and away from brutal dictatorships. The US and Canada can actually end dependence on foreign oil and in doing end the need for wars in the middle-east. The trillions spent on war can be spent on scientific development - so that the total conversion energy source can become a reality. The 500 years of time Canada oilsands can buy us will actually solve the problems the environmentalists complain of. All the claims about land being stripped, forests destroyed, wildlife destroyed and large CO2 emissions are FALSE. You can believe it all you want, but so much progress has been made, ALL these canards are no longer true. Believe me, Saudi Arabia cares nothing about birds or any wildlife or CO2 emissions and anything environmentalist care deeply about. Canada does. They have the strictist environmental laws in the world. They have the strongest protections of workers and native rights of any country in the world. They use slaves to do the work in Saudi Arabia. The premier of Alberta is a woman and so is the mayor of Ft. McMurray. Women aren't even allowed to drive or vote or go outside without a male escort in Saudi Arabia.
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Linus521
In wildness is the salvation of mankind
06:47 PM on 03/06/2012
To protect Canada's interest in this pipeline and to make the world a safer place [sarcasm here], they are going to slaughter 6,000 wolves, using helicopters. More planet butchering for a can of grease. What won't man do for a quart of oil? Like, kill the strands in the web of all life, and ironically, the wolf is a vital keystone specie within his ecosystems.
06:35 PM on 03/06/2012
I hate jingoistic jargon. "Conflict" oil repeated over and over did nothing to sway me to Mr. Levant's point of view.
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grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
06:30 PM on 03/06/2012
McKibben uses the below source to make a point that oil sands are "slated for export". But the source makes several odd claims. For one, the source claims that its primary first source is the EIA but the EIA takes the opposite stance of the report. That is, refineries mostly transport their products locally for practical reasons. Basically, the rug gets pulled out from under this source. And second, the source makes a point about Foreign Trade Zones being used as an export strategy for oil sands. But oil sands are coming from Canada which is in NAFTA. All of America is a foreign trade zone to Canada. Sending Canadian oil to a FTZ means nothing.

http://www.policyinnovations.org/ideas/policy_library/data/01614
03:58 PM on 03/07/2012
Perhaps the fact that the Republican majority in the House refused to consider an amendment to their legislation to force approval of the pipeline that would require the oil to be sold here in the US, or the amendment that would call for the purchase of construction materials used in the US portion of the pipeline from US suppliers are indications of the true intent of the project. The Canadian government has already declared that they want to diversify the market for their oil products away from the US, which accounts for approximately 95% of their exports, and Valero Energy already has contracts in place to sell this tar sands product to China. The pipeline will also relieve the current bottleneck that exists in The midwest and once this oil can be easily moved to the Gulf it will also cause an increase in crude oil prices, so how does the US justify taking all the risk of another environmental disaster resulting for the inevitable malfunction.
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grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
05:29 PM on 03/07/2012
Some of what you wrote is made up (e.g., Valero has contract to sell tar sands product to China) and some of what you wrote makes no sense (e.g., require the oil to be sold here in the US).

1) XL is going to the Gulf, not the West Coast. There is no interest in transporting refined products to China from the Gulf.
http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/presentations/2011/aacsummit/aacsummit.pdf

2) As the EIA points out, "most refineries [especially in the US] meet their "local" demand first, with exports providing a temporary flow for balancing supply and demand." Demand is down in the US so they use their excess refining capacity to export. The alternative is shutting down. Selling exports of the excess helps with jobs, taxes, and GDP.

The ultimate justification is this:

Oil sands will "fill a gap being created by declining supply from traditional heavy crude suppliers, notably Mexico and Venezuela, a gap it is projected would otherwise be filled by increases in other foreign supplies, notably from the Middle East."
http://energy.gov/pi/office-policy-and-international-affairs/articles/ensys-energy-report-keystone-xl-pipeline

The whole China angle for XL output is funny.
08:45 AM on 03/08/2012
H.AMDT.933 (A002) :Amendment sought to ensure that if the Keystone XL pipeline is built, the oil that it transports to the Gulf of Mexico and the fuels made from that oil remain in this country to benefit Americans. The amendment allows the President to waive this requirement if it can be shown that an export of the oil or fuels won't increase our dependence on oil or fuels we buy from hostile nations, that prices for refiners and consumers won't go up if the export occurs, or if an export is needed to comply with any international treaties or other agreements we have to export oil or fuels. Failed by recorded vote: 173 - 254 (Roll no. 56).

From the IEA: "This pipeline system will carry Canadian heavy crude to refineries in the United States, then transport it to the GulfCoast for delivery to international markets."This pipeline system will carry Canadian heavy crude to refineries in the United States, then transport it to the GulfCoast for delivery to international markets."
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GhostOfFDR
Your micro-bio is too brilliant to be approved
06:29 PM on 03/06/2012
If I looked would I also find that Ezra Levant is in favor of union busting, selling the Canadian tar sands oil to China, increased coal mining, and labeling anyone who questions the policies of Israel as anti-semitic.

Maybe the pro-pipeline side should have been a non-Canadian without a greatest hits page.
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grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
06:17 PM on 03/06/2012
"7.In fact, despite the endless fibbing on jobs best described by Stephen Colbert, the one employment study not funded by big oil showed the project would actually kill as many jobs as it would create. "

Yeah, because pumping $3B to $4B into the US economy and infrastructure is a jobs killer. Funny.

What I find even more funny about the employment study is that it quotes this opinion page as its source that the oil sands are headed for export markets. I'll trust the DOE over this opinion piece.

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/117832183.html