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John Rudolf
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George Zimmerman Unprotected By Self-Defense Law in Trayvon Martin Killing, Florida Lawmakers Say

Posted: 03/21/2012 6:57 pm

George Zimmerman
George Zimmerman is seen in police mug shot provided by the Orange County, Fla., Jail, via The Mimai Herald, from a 2005 arrest. Zimmerman is the neighborhood watch captain who shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin, 17, in a gated community in Sanford, Fla. in February 2012. (AP Photo/Orange County Jail via Miami Herald)

Republican state lawmakers in Florida responsible for a controversial 2005 self-defense law said it shouldn't apply to a neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old, in February.

Police in Sanford, Fla., declined to charge George Zimmerman, 28, saying they lack evidence refuting his claim of self-defense in the fatal confrontation. Under the 2005 law, called Stand Your Ground, Florida residents can use lethal force against an attacker if they believe their life is threatened, regardless of the location.

In recorded calls to police, Zimmerman describes following Martin in his car and calls him 'suspicious.' A dispatcher tells him not to pursue Martin, but Zimmerman persists. In statements to police, Zimmerman claimed that Martin then attacked him and he shot the teenager in self-defense, police said.

Martin weighed nearly 100 pounds less than Zimmerman and was found carrying only a bag of Skittles candy and a can of iced tea. Police said that without evidence proving that Zimmerman attacked Martin first, they had no grounds to charge him with a crime.

Dennis Baxley, a Republican state representative and co-author of the 2005 self-defense law, said Zimmerman negated his ability to claim immunity under the law by chasing Martin.

"This law is for innocent, law-abiding citizens who are under attack by a perpetrator," Baxley told The Huffington Post. "Anyone who is out pursuing and confronting people is not protected by this statute."

"I think they need to go back and read the statute," Baxley said, referring to the Sanford Police Department.

Former Republican State Sen. Durell Peadon, another co-author of the law, said Zimmerman "has no protection under my law."

"They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid," Peadon told the Miami Herald on Tuesday.

Gun rights advocates also question the decision not to charge Zimmerman.

"I don't see why he hasn't been arrested," said Sean Caranna, executive director of Florida Carry, a gun rights group.

Zimmerman had no right to follow and confront Martin in the first place, Caranna noted.

"Being the neighborhood watch guy doesn't give you carte blanche to stop and question every guy you see walking down the street," Caranna said.

A spokesman for the Sanford Police Department did not respond to a request for comment.

Critics of the 2005 self-defense law said its broad wording led to a perception among Florida residents and law enforcement that the use of deadly force is justified in almost any circumstance in which a person perceives themselves to be in danger. The self-defense doctrine has also been invoked as a defense by hundreds of people involved in fights and shootings, complicating formerly straightforward criminal cases, legal experts said.

"On a practical level, it seems that prosecutors in Florida are much less inclined to pursue homicide charges in cases when someone claims self-defense,' said Scott Sundby, a professor at the University of Miami School of Law.

The Martin shooting is now in the hands of Seminole County prosecutor Norman Wolfinger, who said this week that he will bring the case before a grand jury in April. The U.S. Justice Department and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement are also involved in the case.

In a statement, Wolfinger pledged a "thorough, deliberate and just" review of the facts. "We appreciate our community's care and concern in this case," he said. "It is our community too."

Weeks passed before Wolfinger took any action, however, leading some to question whether the matter would have ever reached a grand jury were it not for the public outrage that erupted after Martin's parents called for justice.

"If it were not for the public outcry I think it's very clear that the prosecution would not have gone forward," Sundby said.

A spokeswoman for Wolfinger could not be reached for comment.

Sundby agreed with Republican lawmakers that Zimmerman's apparent pursuit of Martin exceeded even the broad bounds of the self-defense law, which loosened the standards by which citizens can use deadly force to repel an attack or stop a violent crime in progress.

"You cannot provoke the confrontation. You cannot be the instigator and then claim 'stand your ground,' Sundby said.

FOLLOW BLACK VOICES

Republican state lawmakers in Florida responsible for a controversial 2005 self-defense law said it shouldn't apply to a neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-...
Republican state lawmakers in Florida responsible for a controversial 2005 self-defense law said it shouldn't apply to a neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-...
 
 
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11:47 AM on 12/27/2012
>>""This law is for innocent, law-abiding citizens who are under attack by a perpetrator," Baxley told The Huffington Post. "Anyone who is out pursuing and confronting people is not protected by this statute."

I'm not sure the police would be happy to learn that they can't pursue criminals.
Pursuing a suspect is not a carte blanche for them to attack someone.

Unless there's 2 sets of laws, one for the police and one for the citizens-- we are rapidly learning that we live in a police-state where the people are second-class citizens compared to the police and criminals.
That's how it works: constructive terror to destroy freedom.

Zimmerman wasn't doing anything illegal before being attacked, and hasn't been charged with it.

We simply have 30 million simple-minded blacks in America who consider any violence against "one of theirs" as murder, since they are so full of hate for white Americans.
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Edward L
WOW
01:37 PM on 02/06/2013
So, my girlfriend is white and I hate her. You did say 30 million that includes all. Same as many other blacks. Just to mention a few, Wentworth Miller, Hallie Berry, Vanessa Williams, Mariah Carey and many more. Your post has hate in it and very inaccurate.
09:25 PM on 10/17/2012
Trayvon Martin was "Standing His Ground" when he attacked Zimmerman with his fists and beat him. He was threatened and pursued and had every right to protect himself with whatever resources he had. He didn't have a gun so he used his fists and fear to protect himself. Martin was not the aggressor!
01:05 PM on 05/31/2012
BeachLoverUSA
Zimmerman was walking back to his Truck when Martin 6'3, 160 to Z do you have a problem, Z to Martin no!

Martin said to Z now you do and assaulted Zimmerman breaking his nose, Martin after was bashing Zimmerman's head in the cement!

Zimmerman fighting for his life had no choice!! Martin had a choice to walk away and go to Dad's GF or Assault Zimmerman he choose to Assault Zimmerman.

Had Martin lived he would be in Jail or Prison for Aggravated Assault & Aggravated Battery with the internt to do great bodily harm or kill!! My question is why did Martin nor his GF call 911?
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Edward L
WOW
01:38 PM on 02/06/2013
The ME report has TM at 5'11".
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10:10 AM on 05/16/2012
Cant' find anywhere on this site an update about the autopsy showing bruises on Trayvon's knuckles or the reports of the Zimmerman's visit to the doctor showing broken nose, etc. Gee, I wonder why...
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Edward L
WOW
01:39 PM on 02/06/2013
There are none. But, the attack goes on that TM attack GZ. No way without any DNA.
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cyanmanta
Thinking outside the box is for smart people...
01:34 AM on 05/01/2012
Can you imagine the precedent it would set if the self-defense claim made by Zimmerman's team were actually upheld? It would mean that in any state with a Stand Your Ground clause, a person could walk up to you - onto your property, if they want - pull out a concealed weapon, and shoot you dead. When the cops show up to arrest them all they need to do is claim that at the moment they killed you, they "felt threatened". Boom, instant get-out-of-jail-free card. It's even more insidious than the "temporary insanity" defense.

Personal accountability MUST be upheld in our society; you can carry a gun around anywhere you want, but any harm that comes to any other person because of that gun is YOUR legal responsibility, period. Without accountability, the second amendment doesn't work.
01:51 PM on 05/17/2012
For the stand your ground law, it goes a little deeper than that. It's not just "if you feel threatened."
12:02 PM on 05/27/2012
Yes. It's a bad law as it is written right now. It MUST be worded more specifically or we are ALL in very much trouble imho.
02:01 PM on 04/13/2012
If Zimmerman was right to use deadly force because he thought he was threatened, then why wasn't Martin right to resist Zimmerman (hit him -- if he did, as some say) when he thought he was threatened.
06:30 PM on 04/24/2012
It is a question of who initiated physical contact and what can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Since eyewitness accounts say Zimmerman was being beaten and screaming for help as well as having well documented injuries, it is difficult to prove he made first contact with Trayvon, but there is significant supporting evidence that Trayvon was beating Zimmerman prior to the shooting. Trayvon was taller and despite reports to the contrary, there was not a significant weight difference. If you read the 911 transcripts it seems evident that Trayvon had time to return to the apartment and did not seem afraid to face Zimmerman. The shooting scene is very exposed and close to many apartment windows so witness statements seem critical to any logical analysis. I am currently unaware of any evidence which would be able to disprove Zimmermans account and feel that the original prosecutor made his decision based on the evidence and did not believe a conviction was likely.
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cyanmanta
Thinking outside the box is for smart people...
01:35 AM on 05/01/2012
Zimmerman pursued Martin. Period.
11:05 PM on 05/14/2012
" having well documented injuries"... like a bullet in the head?
07:12 PM on 05/07/2012
Exactly
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Matt Rugar
Martin Colt
04:36 AM on 04/05/2012
What these "Lawmakers" said .. and I use law makers lightly being they are repubs . Makes no sense . any one can follow any one to see what they are doing on public land or you could have people arrested for watching a soft ball game. But no you can not confront some one.. and thats what T.M did was confront Zimmerman. So according to what the lawmakers said ... Zimmerman is justified .
11:59 AM on 12/27/2012
This wasn't even public land, it was PRIVATE PROPERTY for which the owners gave Zimmerman PERMISSION to patrol for criminal activity. So he was a private agent of the property-owner, and had the AUTHORITY to be there!
'
These ignorant people who keep saying junk like "Zimmerman pursue Martin, Zimmerman pursue Martin, Zimmerman pursue Martin" are not only wrong, but even IF they were right then it wouldn't matter! Just because you THINK someone's following you, does NOT give you the right to attack them-- they must be DOING something to give REASONABLE APPREHENSION of impending harm to you-- and WALKING does not qualify!
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Edward L
WOW
02:00 PM on 02/06/2013
Wrong, you can confront someone following you. That is your right, unless you are saying that this Black Kid has no rights. That he is not protected by the same Constitution that you or I are.
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Jimz7875
From the Land of Enchantment (Tierra de Encanto)
09:48 PM on 03/25/2012
I've read almost every comment, including several that were posted in response to my remarks. I hope that the involvment of the Justice Department ensures that justice is done, and that if the evidence warrants, Zimmerman is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I do not trust the locals to handle this and an unarmed 17 year old boy is dead. Let's hope the system works.
02:22 AM on 03/27/2012
Even if Zimmerman was indeed using justifiable self-defense as he claims?
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SuperHeretic
A proud Rationalist.
10:06 AM on 03/27/2012
Your boy's lawyer just ran from an interview when he found out he was going to be asked about Zimmerman's past assault of a police officer. His girlfriend issuing a retraining order against him for abuse. Who was paying that lawyer.

He was also going to be asked about Zimmerman's claims of a broken nose, and why there were no pictures of that.

Literally. He just RAN from his interview seat on live television.

Things are looking bad for all the wanna be killers out there. I can't wait for your guy to get into a courtroom.
04:50 PM on 03/25/2012
There IS a Florida Statute under 776 which would prevent "Zimmerman" from
being shielded by 776.012..........and WHY they REFUSE to acknowledge this
is mind-boggling........

776.041ā€ƒUse of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1)ā€ƒIs attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2)ā€ƒInitially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a)ā€ƒSuch force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)ā€ƒIn good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

Section "2" and "2a".....APPLY to Zimmerman......as HE, Zimmerman.....PROVOKED
Martin.....and HE, Zimmerman did NOT " exhaust every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which ......"

"Justification is not available to him".......BECAUSE of 2 and 2a.......and it's
RIGHT in the freakin' statute books that the CHIEF has available to HIM.......
06:47 PM on 03/25/2012
Possibly. However, Zimmerman claims he lost sight of Taylor while following him and was returning to his vehicle when Martin jumped him. If indeed that is true, then (2) and (a) would not exclude Zimmerman from a valid self-defense claim. Once one of the parties disengages, the "clock resets" so to speak. This is supported in case law.
08:12 PM on 03/25/2012
Hmm.....

RE: your statement:
" Zimmerman claims he lost sight of Taylor while following him and was returning to his vehicle when Martin jumped him. "

That statement IMPLIES that he was "following him ON FOOT" at the time...
AND also IMPLIES that he had NOT yet had a "face to face" encounter with
Martin ...... HOWEVER.......

IF "he lost sight of Martin"......HOW would Martin KNOW that he was being "followed" on foot by Zimmerman ??
If he "lost sight of Martin" and was returning to his vehicle.....what motivation would Martin have for "jumping him"......when he, Zimmerman was SO far behind him as to "lose sight" that he returned to his vehicle INSTEAD........

RE: your statement:
" . Once one of the parties disengages, the "clock resets" so to speak. "

"Gotcha" on that one.......:)....everyone goes back to "square one".....

Do you have a link to a reputable news source where THAT is what Zimmerman claims happened ??....... None of the articles I have read so far....have
included THAT little tidbit of information.........and frankly.......I don't believe
that Martin "randomly jumped him"......because THAT is what his, Zimmerman's
"claims" IMPLIES.......
03:47 PM on 03/28/2012
RE: your post and statement:
" Neither you nor I know the relationship between the location of Zimmerman's truck and where the witness saw Martin beating Zimmerman. But the police know. "

True....HOWEVER.....if you "google" or "mapquest" the address
given by Zimmerman....as well AS....the address officers responded
to re:body on ground/shots/etc......and use "satellite" feature...you
will have a "slightly" better idea......and that comes from Z's statements.
Only SLIGHTLY......considering.....

He kept stating that you "go past the clubhouse.....go past....'take a
left' "..... Welllllll......there IS NO "left" to "take".....the road ITSELF
CURVES to the left......but you do NOT "STOP" and then proceed
to take a "left" on a DIFFERENT road.........uh.....

His directions were SO convoluted.....and if you google the address
of where the body "was".....from what I could tell based on his
statements to 911.......that HE and Martin ended up PAST where
his truck was possibly located.....

PLUS...he stated to 911....that Martin had on white sneakers when in
the Police report....they were red/white....
PLUS.....he is NOW stating thru his attorney that he didn't get medical
treatment.....when in the Police report it is indicated that he DID get
examined by the SFD.......
01:57 AM on 03/26/2012
Unfortunately, you are skipping over the word "unless". He can be the aggressor, but if the fight escalates to the point where the aggressor feels his life is threatened, he can use deadly force. "Stand your ground is not available to someone who initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless such force is so great that the person believes he is in imminent danger of death." So in fact, even with all the stalking and provoking and scaring the crap out of this kid, and even if Zimmerman walked up to Trayvon and pistol whipped him, if Trayvon retaliated and started beating Zimmerman up, by which I mean defending himself, under Florida law, Zimmerman could legally defend himself and kill the kid. The problem with the law, along with many gun laws, is that it relies heavily on the word "reasonable", be it a "reasonable person" or "reasonable means". All Zimmerman has to do to defeat the reasonable means to escape is say he was pinned down and could not move, or that he tried to run and Trayvon hit him. He can say anything he wants to defeat that reasonable means statement in the law. It's useless. It's absolutely insane, I know. It pretty much states in the law that I can start a fight with someone but if the other person fights back and I get scared, I can kill them. It's insanity.
08:03 AM on 03/26/2012
Sorry......but you are "skipping" over the word....."AND" in Section 2(a).....

"(a)ā€ƒSuch force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

NOTE:....."AND"...."that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to
escape such danger other than the use of force..........."

The "use" of the word "AND".....makes what follows...."inclusive"......

MEANING.....IF Zimmerman is the "aggressor".....and is attacked "back".....
he CAN use whatever force necessary AS LONG AS......he has "exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; "

RE: your statement:
" All Zimmerman has to do to defeat the reasonable means to escape is say he was pinned down and could not move, or that he tried to run and Trayvon hit him. He can say anything he wants to defeat that reasonable means statement in the law. "
08:04 AM on 03/26/2012
CONT'D............

Aaaah.....while your theory may be true.....re: reasonable means.....the
question IS.....WHO gets to decide IF he used "reasonable means to escape"....
the Police Dept.....OR......a Jury ??

That seems to be the whole problem here......the PD has "decided" that this
28 yr. old man that was told NOT to "pursue" this 17 yr. old kid....and outweighed
him by approx. 100 lbs.....could NOT "remove himself" short of the use of
deadly force FROM a situation that HE deliberately placed himself in......

INSTEAD.....of letting a Jury decide IF he used "reasonable means" to
escape...........
05:14 AM on 03/25/2012
Where are 'pork & beans'? Stand up, make something happen. Stop killing each other and direct your 'energy' towards those enabling this injustice. Stand up, do something.
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bradyhull
04:26 AM on 03/25/2012
THE MUG SHOT: HE LOOKS LIKE A MEMBER OF SOME SOUTH AMERICAN GANG!
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michelleobamaok
Tampa Crookpalooza 2012!
10:36 AM on 03/25/2012
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TODAY:

http://www.trbimg.com/img-1332543851/turbine/george-zimmerman-20120323
apduncan
My micro-bio is empty
12:10 PM on 03/25/2012
He looks more like a Ku Kux Klan Grand Dragon. He is white.
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04:19 PM on 03/27/2012
Half-hispanic is "white" now?

Okay, then if Zimmerman is white, so is President Obama.
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dejhutton
02:45 AM on 03/25/2012
I wonder if this happened to one of the law makers children if this investigation would be a month old with no arrest!
06:50 PM on 03/25/2012
If the circumstances were identical other than the identity of the person shot, then yes, it should be.
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dejhutton
07:19 PM on 03/25/2012
No way! They would have had an arrest almost immediately!
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elicourey
It takes a nation of millions to hold me back!
11:31 PM on 03/24/2012
Here's an idea, bulletproof hoodies to protect against George Zimmerman.
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dejhutton
02:42 AM on 03/25/2012
Hurry up and apply for the Patent!
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michelleobamaok
Tampa Crookpalooza 2012!
10:02 PM on 03/24/2012
"Anyone who is out pursuing and confronting people is not protected by this statute."

Former Republican State Sen. Durell Peadon, another co-author of the law, said Zimmerman "has no protection under my law."

"They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid," Peadon told the Miami Herald on Tuesday.
06:52 PM on 03/25/2012
He is correct, but not for the reason you think. The Stand Your Ground law does not afford the protection. A different statute, s. 776.032 FS, Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force provides protection from arrest and prosecution.
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abbyj
Always tolerate difference.
01:22 AM on 05/21/2012
It's so powerful that the co-author of the bill distances himself from Zimmerman's effort to use the law to cover his own predatory behavior. If the co-author of the bill says it's a bogus attempt on Zimmerman's part, I believe him. It's incredible what it took for the Sanford PD to finally finally finally agree to arrest this liar.I don't know much about that area of Florida, but it speaks horribly for them.
09:56 PM on 03/24/2012
justice is not done on this cause.there wrong for letting this man get away with killing a child who was un unarmed. what did he do to make this man feel threaten explain that to the mother ......
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
11:44 PM on 03/24/2012
He hasn't gotten away with anything yet. Calm down.
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linksteroh
Believing in yourself is an endless desitination.
12:17 AM on 03/25/2012
I think you're the one that needs to calm down. All your posts on HP are attacking anyone who feels Zimmerman belongs in jail. He clearly hunted this kid down and confronted him for holding skittles and Ice Tea. He was told by the dispatcher to not follow, and this guy will be going to jail. Unfortunately, the FBI and Justice Department has to step in because the Sanford Police are so inept, as are your comments.
06:54 PM on 03/25/2012
Characterizing Trayvon as a "child" is pandering. Trayvon was months from being a legal adult. The fact that he was unarmed is also disingenuous. Unarmed people are perfectly capable of causing great bodily injury or death. Ask any law enforcement officer.
10:08 PM on 03/25/2012
Months from being an adult is not an adult. he was a child. Period. This guy, 10+ years older, +100 lbs over his weight, with a semi automatic pistol, please. Defending his actions, disobeying a police dispatcher, it's ludicrous. Then you introduce his history into it...just ridiculous.
01:09 AM on 04/05/2012
Then why were the charges against Zimmerman for assaulting a police officer dismissed?