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Gary Stein Case: Military Board Recommends Dismissal For Marine Who Criticized President Obama On Facebook

By By JULIE WATSON 04/ 6/12 06:34 PM ET AP

Gary Stein
This undated photo released courtesy of Gary Stein shows the Camp Pendleton U.S. Marine, Stein, who has been criticizing President Obama on his Facebook page. (AP Photo/Courtesy Gary Stein)

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. -- Marine Corps officials are seeking additional guidance from the Pentagon regarding service members' use of social media amid discharge proceedings against a Camp Pendleton sergeant who criticized President Barack Obama on Facebook.

Joe Kasper, spokesman for Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., said Friday that Hunter's office was notified of the plans in a letter from a Marine Corps major general.

Hunter had urged authorities to withdraw discharge proceedings against Sgt. Gary Stein because he said the Pentagon's policy limiting service members' free is ambiguous about the use of social media.

A Marine Corps administrative board concluded after a daylong hearing Thursday at Camp Pendleton that Stein violated the policy when he posted anti-Obama comments and images on Facebook, including allegedly putting the president's face on a "Jackass" movie poster.

The board recommended that Stein be given an other-than-honorable discharge. That would mean Stein would lose his benefits and would not be allowed on any military base.

The board's recommendations go to a general who will either accept or deny them. If the general disagrees with the board, the case could go to the secretary of the Navy.

Stein's lawyers and Hunter and argued that the Pentagon policy is vague and military officials do not understand it.

Stein has said his opinions are his own and he put a disclaimer on his Facebook page saying so. His attorneys argued that service members have a right to voice their opinions as long as they do not appear to be presenting their views as being endorsed by the military.

"If there is anything good to come out of this, it's the fact that the Marines realize the guidelines need to be updated," Kasper said Friday. "It's just too bad it took all of this to get there."

The Marine Corps has said it decided to take administrative action after Stein declared on Facebook that he would not follow orders from Obama. Stein later clarified that statement saying he would not follow unlawful orders.

The military has had a policy since the Civil War limiting the free speech of service members, including criticism of the commander in chief.

Pentagon directives say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement.

Hunter told Marine Corps officials in his letter supporting Stein that the policy "is both vague and contradicting in the context of new `social media.' In fact, nothing in the directive actually mentions social media and what activity is or is not approved for active duty service members."

He said the policy needs to be updated to reflect "the changing dynamics of social communication" that includes a forum for the interaction between friends, families and acquaintances.

During Stein's hearing, the prosecutor, Capt. John Torresala, said Stein ignored warnings from his superiors about his postings.

The government submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on the "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," the prosecutor said.

Torresala also said anti-Obama comments by Stein that were posted on a Facebook page used by Marine meteorologists were prejudicial to good order and discipline, and could have influenced junior Marines.

Stein's lawyers argued that the nine-year Marine, whose service was to end in four months, was exercising his First Amendment rights.

"We're truly surprised and disappointed but it was an honor to fight for a hero like Sgt. Stein and every other Marine's right to speak freely," Stein's defense attorney, Marine Capt. James Baehr, said after the hearing that ended close to midnight Thursday.

Stein told board members he loved the Marine Corps and wanted to re-enlist, Baehr said.

Stein said his statement about Obama was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan.

In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if it involved detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.

Stein said he was removed from his job at the Marine Corps Recruiting Depot in San Diego last month and given a desk job with no access to computers.

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CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. -- Marine Corps officials are seeking additional guidance from the Pentagon regarding service members' use of social media amid discharge proceedings against a Camp Pendleton se...
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. -- Marine Corps officials are seeking additional guidance from the Pentagon regarding service members' use of social media amid discharge proceedings against a Camp Pendleton se...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
luckyfreeman69
05:36 PM on 05/03/2012
I really think this Hunter guy seems to be right on this regard about social media and all that stuff...;Its rather obvious that the Sargent didn't disobey any orders at all and that he said had he been given any order that he thought was illegal that he would respectfully decline participation in fullfilling the hypothetical order...He meant nobody any disrespect and was just using self preservation techniques if the situation ever had arrissen...
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fredrdr
Let us dare to read, think, speak and write.
09:48 AM on 05/22/2012
As an NCO, it was improper conduct. If you have any questions, refer to the UCMJ.
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jenna2929
Keep On Keepin' On
12:13 AM on 04/27/2012
where was this guy when bush and cheney were committing treason and war crimes? where was his outrage over no bid contractors and their abuse of power and literally wasting, misusing, and 'losing' tax payers money. kbr alone was accused of the death of at least 12 soldiers by electrocutions that could have been avoided. where was his patriotism? and why would you say 'i wouldn't follow any unlawful orders by the potus.' well, talk about stating the obvious. why would you say that? you obviously meant you wouldn't follow any orders by the potus and then back tracked. nine years in the marines, i KNOW this dude knew he had no right to say what he said. it's beaten into their heads from day one that they are property of the military and don't have the same rights that civilians do, that's just the way it is and has always been. now they are trying to say stein somehow didn't know that he couldn't say something on FB that he KNEW he wouldn't be able to say in any other setting. please.
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05:48 PM on 04/26/2012
Obama deserves to be critized and just pull this guy's rank...what the hell..our president and congress do not care what happens to the men and women in these Armed Forces..and this war is all about money and not our freedom...just pull his rank..end of story..
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
luckyfreeman69
05:40 PM on 05/03/2012
I tend to agree with you on this one reduce his rank a stripe give him an article 15...or what I think they call a captains mast...and let him continue to serve he is almost half way through anyway...More than most of congress...
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thomcat327
Devils advocate
01:12 PM on 04/26/2012
Mr. Stein has every right to voice his opinion. However, it breaks down morale, and is offensive to be in his position and criticize the president of the US. Obama does not advocate war, and hopes to bring our troops home as early as possible. As an ex military man, Mr. Stein would obviously not appreciate that. He would have been out of a job. He got what he deserves.
05:31 PM on 04/25/2012
He has not disobeyed Obama's orders yet .He just says he will. So now maybe he can change his mind? He has not acted on his intentions yet.However he has publicly shown disrespect for the office of President.I say break him down to buck private.Rip off his stripes in public with the press present.Give him 60 days at hard labor and then ask him if he will retract his statement before dishonorable discharge.
07:31 PM on 04/25/2012
Love your suggestion.
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jestermarcus
Enough about me.....
03:22 PM on 04/26/2012
He's already damaged troop morale though. Its too late for him.
07:07 PM on 04/16/2012
If he really does have a bad record (as the previous post mentioned) he should have been busted down a rank earlier...for leaving his post...this would be strike 2 (for posting)...and 3 (for disobeying a direct order). But..... if he does have a good record (the below post is false....planted by a Marine Corps prosecutor (yes...the majority of them are unethical and do all kinds of tricks to get their stats up) then he should only be busted down a rank...not thrown out....The bigger picture here is if a Colonel or a general had a similar history (and they do...I'm a former O-5), they get to retire..in grade...full benefits.

There is a pretty significant double standard within the Marine Corps when it comes to the UCMJ...The lawyers know it...and so do the generals..The entire "legal system" aka...the enforcement of the UCMJ...is comical...Check out other than honorable and read all about the Commandant, the Assistant Commandant, and the current military advisor to the Department of Defense....who is up for a 4th star....despite being under investigation for over a year!
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jestermarcus
Enough about me.....
03:25 PM on 04/26/2012
That double standard is present throughout the entire world though. Those with power and powerful friends get treated better than the rest of us. Its the way the world works.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ShroudedSciuridae
OIF 5, 7 Vet. Polyglot. Ph.D. Candidate.
03:57 AM on 04/16/2012
Let me tell you about Mr. Stein, and you can verify all of this from the court documents. While in Iraq he got a Page 11 for leaving his guard post and his weapon to go play with rocks ~200ft away. In 2009 he lost his clearance and his car for consistently being 20K+ in debt he wasn't paying. He was ranked 35 out of 37 for promotion, before this whole thing came to light. Every category was below average. He has been riding a profile for years, and according to his first line has made no effort to change that. Does this sound like a Marine you want next to you? Because I wouldn't.
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thomcat327
Devils advocate
01:14 PM on 04/26/2012
Me neither...having him in the trenches with me would be a nightmare.
12:55 PM on 04/14/2012
He disobeyed a direct order from a superior to refrain from making additional comments. End of story.
Whether Facebook is public venue (and I think it is) his lawyers are just fishing for a way to get this guy's pension for him..
08:41 PM on 04/10/2012
When you get arrested, you are read your rights, but you can wave your right to be silent and talk to law enforcement. This is similar to the waving of one's rights to serve in the services. Stein identifies himself on his Facebook site as a "public figure" which flies in the face of his claim that this was not about his 15 minutes. He's seeking contributions for his legal defense even after stating he defense "isn't costing me a dime". This fly’s in the face of any claim not to be trying to profit financially from this. He claims to be fighting for free speech, his and ours, but if you go to his site and start speaking against him, he will block you and report you to Facebook for spamming him. He simply wants HIS free speech after agreeing to the military to live subject to the UCMJ. He feels the Marines don't have the right to limit his speech but he sure didn't mind a role reversal where I wanted to speak and he didn't like what I had to say to and about him. This guy is a walking contradiction. The case against him is about more than just free speech but he locked on to that one thing while he continues his fight, just like he locked on to 1/3rd of the oath he took and violated the rest! The Marines need “a few good men” and he is no longer one of them.
07:35 PM on 04/25/2012
Wow..what a selfish arrogant dude he is.. he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
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kkehoe5
There is no knowledge that is not power.
06:54 AM on 04/10/2012
I wonder what Obama's opinion on this matter is. I was in the Navy for 9 1/2 years so I know all about fighting for democracy but not practicing it. To ensure everyone has the right to do things that you are barred from, all because you wear a unifrom and represent your country.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Skepticat
Supporting skeptical felines everywhere
01:06 PM on 04/10/2012
During your 9.5 years of appreciated service - anybody ever explain why members of the military in most civilized countries have less rights of political expression than the civilian population. The general reason I was told is to keep the military out of partisan politics and avoid the kind of politicized military you have running many dictatorships. I suspect President Obama - like his predecessors is smart enough not to get directly involved and will let the military deal with it themselves .
11:43 PM on 04/09/2012
DoD Directive 1344.10 states the following:
4.1.1. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:
4.1.1.1. Register, vote, and express a personal opinion on political candidates and issues, but not as a representative of the Armed Forces.

As long as Sgt Stein is not speaking on behalf of the US military, he's free to say what he wants. Whether he should is a totally separate thing. According to the above directive, if he is acting as a private citizen, he can criticize President Obama. As long as he is NOT doing it as a Marine, but as a private citizen.

And for them to railroad him for this is ridiculous. If they want to do that, they need to kick out all the people who spoke out against Bush during his term of office.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tartinc
03:14 AM on 04/10/2012
Then why would a Republican Congressman speaking in Sgt Stein's defense say Stein was "only saying what many in the military feel" rather than "only what many private citizens feel"?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Skepticat
Supporting skeptical felines everywhere
12:58 PM on 04/10/2012
Perhaps it's because the congressman was a republican - and simply trying to exploit the situation for political gain. Thy're politicians - that's what they do.
04:56 PM on 04/15/2012
And why would the congressman speak out against what the USMarines decided??
Answer: It's becuase he is an Obamahater.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
12:36 PM on 04/10/2012
Ah but he was not doing this as a private citizen. Had he not identified himself on the page AS A MARINE, you would have a point, but the page's NAME is Armed Forces Tea Party!!!!!

Furthermore, whether he's identifying himself or not, he was given a DIRECT order to stop, and he failed to do so. That right there is enough to suffer consequences of disciplinary review. Once they look at the whole thing they decide punishment. Had that order been illegal, he would have been exonerated. Since it was not, he was recommended for an OTH.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Raptor2u
Your personal fallacies are not my problem
08:32 PM on 04/09/2012
MILITARY CAREER SUICIDE: A reason the Articles of the #UCMJ exists is to address disruptors like @GarySteinAFTP who are interested only in their own personal agendas rather than focus on the mission of their assigned unit. If Sgt Stein thinks he is going to become some sort of military martyr for threatening to disobey the legal orders of the Commander in Chief, he is delusional.

One of the quickest paths to military career suicide is to play the disobedience game and Gary Stein knows it. This strange ego trip that he's on shows a tremendous degree of naïveté. For generations military history is littered with nameless and forgotten officers and NCOs who, like Sgt Stein, tried this road act and lost. This only makes his reasoning to challenge the CinC authority, irrational. His nine years in service is more than enough time for him to get acquainted with the Uniform Code of Military Justice #UCMJ. If he wasn't acquainted with it - you bet your azzz he is now.

Every Marine worth being called a Marine knows as early as...
http://tl.gd/gt18bf
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Lisa Vunk
I am a Holistic Nutritional Consultant, chef, and
10:33 PM on 04/09/2012
Why on God's green Earth do You, Raptor2u, think that it is not ok for Gary to hold his own personal opinions outside of his job. He claimed whatever he was saying as a personal citizen not as a marine and he did not criticize his commanding officer on tv or radio in uniform as was quoted from the code???...Do you have your own beliefs that you are too afraid to speak due to the policies inherent in the military???...No judgement, just curiosity???...Blessings...
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tartinc
01:17 AM on 04/10/2012
Your "personal citizen" argument is invalid. There are a multitude of military personnel who actively participate in politics...one way is to vote. They just manage to keep their political opinions private and apart from their military status and themselves away from publiic scrutiny. If he had done so, would we even be having this discussion or would he be referred to as Marine Sgt Gary Stein? Furthermore, there seems to substantiated evidence of at least one criticizing public post made while he was on duty and using a government computer. I was in the Air Force, but I assume the Marines have similar regulations about wearing uniforms on duty. My understanding of the code refers to "the public" rather than radio or TV alone. Civiians are considered part of the public even to the point of restricting what can be said to one's own spouse.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
12:40 PM on 04/10/2012
He has EVERY right to believe what he wants to in his own private life and thoughts. What he does NOT have a right to do is say it publicly as a Marine! Plain and simple. Why is this concept so darned difficult for one as "intelligent" as yourself to comprehend???

Here, I hate this analogy because it's false, but it DOES include some useful points of comparison:

If you're working for a private company... Say IBM, and you start a Facebook page which you call.... IBM Patriots, and you identify yourself CLEARLY on the page as an IBM employee. Then you start posting how the CEO is a jackass, and how you want him to be voted out, and how you won't do anything your bosses tell you to do.

You HAVE that right to do all that under the First Amendment. What you do NOT have a right to is remain employed after all that!
12:39 PM on 04/09/2012
Soldiers who speak out have to be dealt with so as to ensure least resistance by them when martial law is rolled out and they are order to disarm their fellow Americans. Sound like Conspiracy Theory? Read on.

DHS orders 450 Million rounds of .40 caliber ammo: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/atk-secures-40-caliber-ammunition-contract-with-department-of-homeland-security-us-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-dhs-ice-2012-03-12?reflink=MW_news_stmp

NDAA 2012: Presidential Executive Order tells dept heads to prepare for martial law: http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/03/18/prepare-martial-law-executive-order-issued-obama-99251/

Not worried because you are not a terrorist and or are not aiding terrorists or terrorism in general? Then you need to know that the government classifies terrorism and terrorist as being anyone in opposition to what government wants to do including when it acts unconstitutionally. Pro-life abortion clinic protestors are being called terrorists. Oath Keepers and anyone other active military personal organizations that declare they will not follow unlawful or unconstitutional orders are being called terrorists. Those who don’t believe the Climate Change agenda are being called terrorists.

Are these the acts of a constitutionally correct government trying to protect the populace or are these the acts of a government trying to enact a police state via martial law in which it can disarm everyone and imprison or eliminate any one who speaks out in opposition? You decide.
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Lisa Vunk
I am a Holistic Nutritional Consultant, chef, and
10:38 PM on 04/09/2012
You Rock BlueCollarCritic!!!...I have been stating all this on many other posts on many other places...Why is everyone so afraid to look at the dark Truth???..Do they just want to stand by and let the "TERRORIST WITCH HUNTS" ensue???..until we all end up in FEMA camps..I am with you, Love...find me on fb...I'm the only Lisa Vunk in the whole world and my page is open and uncensored except for cruelty and hatred...Blessings BroStar!!!...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
12:48 PM on 04/10/2012
Sure, a conspiracy theorist must be completely correct...... I suppose you think that Bush brought down the WTC towers? Or that Obama was born in Kenya?

I mean THOSE are conspiracy theories TOO!
04:53 PM on 04/15/2012
Oh, give me a break. How unintelligent
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BacSi
Celer, Silens, Mortalis
11:06 AM on 04/09/2012
The greatest risk to a free country is a political military.

Something we have never had. Something that some seem to want.

The strength of our military has always been that they tend to stay out of politics, with a few but not many exceptions.

And they follow our civilian leaders without question.

We have lost the country if this ever changes.

Stein is a major problem over and above being a small time pogue who does not want to deploy.
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Lisa Vunk
I am a Holistic Nutritional Consultant, chef, and
11:09 PM on 04/09/2012
We never had anything that we are in the illusion of "about to lose"...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
12:48 PM on 04/10/2012
Sure sparky...
01:22 AM on 04/09/2012
Sgt. Stein seems to be quite the Oathkeepers hero. (http://oathkeepers.org/oath/ )

This group needs to be busted because of its a potential as a rogue organization within the military and police. If they succeed - as they are now attempting to do - in making a martyr out of Sgt. Stein, they acquire a level of legitimacy they don't deserve.

It's a good thing that there are guys in the military that, if they feel they are being asked to do something morally or legally questionable, they'll stand up and question it. But to reserve the right to make the final conclusion themselves and refuse orders accordingly? You can't pick and choose which orders you'll carry out, and you can't pick and choose which duly-elected, commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces you'll listen to. If you could, the entire military could come apart. So, it's also a good thing that the military is going to step on it hard and shut it down before it grows too big.

If Sgt. Stein took it upon himself to be the point man in confronting the Marine Corps on behalf of this organization, he can take what's coming to him. This isn't the VFW or the American Legion we're dealing with here.

Questions? Argument? More detail? http://www.quora.com/Discharge-Proceedings-of-Marine-Sgt-Gary-Stein/Does-anyone-other-than-myself-find-one-or-both-sides-of-this-entire-Sgt-Gary-Stein-Oathkeepers-controversy-just-a-little-scary
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Lisa Vunk
I am a Holistic Nutritional Consultant, chef, and
10:43 PM on 04/09/2012
The Oath Keepers are nothing more than a group of individuals who took an oath to protect the Constitution and question the ethics and integrity of their corrupt leaders...they also claim to replace the militias of every state that originally served to protect the "states" from the abuse of the federal government corruption and invasion...I am NOT for any type of violence, including being armed, but the right to protect oneself from the despotism and fascist totalitarian insult sof our gov'tis our personal right and freedom...do your research I suggest politely...It is not your fault for not knowing it is buried deeply, darkly, and insidiously throughout many years worth of ongoing "legislation"...Blessings to You...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
12:49 PM on 04/10/2012
No, the OathKeepers are a group who swore to bring down the United States of America "in order to bring back the past that we all remember lovingly".... A past which never existed.
04:46 PM on 04/15/2012
America,love it or leave it.
You're working for the terrorists with your anti=government mouth