Talmage Lord, Forced To Quit, Wins Right To Jobless Benefits

It may look better to quit your job instead of getting fired, but you may have a hard time getting unemployment benefits.

Talmage Lord, of New Jersey, was forced to resign from his job as a salesman in June 2009 when his car broke down and he couldn't get to work, according to the New Jersey Star-Ledger. The state rejected Lord's claim for unemployment benefits, arguing that he had decided to leave his job. After Lord waged a protracted legal battle, the Superior Court of New Jersey ruled on Wednesday that he had not chosen to resign, and is therefore eligible to receive unemployment benefits.

From the Superior Court's ruling:

When appellant advised the supervisor that he was not sure he would have a car to perform his work the following Monday, the supervisor told appellant that he "had to resign" from his employment "effective immediately." Appellant testified that he did not want to leave his job, but felt he "had no choice." Thus, based on the Friday conversation with his supervisor, appellant considered himself to have been "terminated."

Lord is among many workers who have appealed their state's decision to deny them unemployment benefits. About half of all former Massachusetts municipal workers that were denied unemployment benefits and submitted appeals to the state's unemployment appeals board won jobless benefits through the appeal process, according to the Boston Herald. People that won jobless benefits include a sexting cop who resigned and a secretary who quit and moved to New York.

About 370,000 people per week apply for unemployment benefits, according to the Labor Department. In the first week of April, 380,000 people applied for unemployment benefits: a surprise 3.5 percent increase from the week before.

All U.S. states disqualify workers from receiving unemployment benefits if they quit their jobs, are fired for misconduct, or refuse suitable work, according to the Labor Department. Workers that are laid off are eligible for unemployment benefits.

In some states, workers that are fired for poor performance are eligible for unemployment benefits. In Michigan, for example, workers "fired for incompetence or inability, rather than for willful misconduct" are not denied unemployment benefits. But the Ohio government stipulates that workers can be denied unemployment benefits if they "neglected the responsibilities of the job" or "performed the work carelessly."

Comments

[Olderandwiser55]

08:16 PM on 04/17/2012

Always appeal...always

[Kai-HK]

04:02 AM on 04/17/2012

Great News! Common sense prevails. Good to see this spurious lawsuit fail.

[nvr2late]

10:15 AM on 04/17/2012

I totally agree.

[Century21Thinking]

01:55 AM on 04/17/2012

One time I was fired because the company could not pay the commissions the company owed me, about 300K$$$$. Never bothered with unemployment I just spent my time making life a living hell for the owners, who finally paid in about a year.

They went out of business about three months after that just more than 90 days. My lucky day was when they went past the 90 days which is usually the look-back period for the bankruptcy court to possibly reverse the payment.

[Century21Thinking]

01:41 AM on 04/17/2012

I have fired people for cause, yet they get unemployment benefits. This is news?

[RealistBC]

08:43 PM on 04/17/2012

Not for many years, you haven't! Most states long ago made termination for cause ineligible for benefits.

[Social Construct]

10:48 PM on 04/16/2012

It's called 'constructive discharge,' and it's a common practice, to our civic shame.

[Trustfunded1]

10:23 PM on 04/16/2012

Hire hispanics or eastern europeans.

They work harder,don't complain and aren't looking for handouts.

[falco]

11:17 PM on 04/16/2012

Yeah. Good idea. Hire people who come from really poor countries to compete with us and eventually we'll all be working for minimum wage. And living 10 to an apartment. It the New World, don't ya know! More jets for the rich!!

[Mister Grumpy]

12:13 AM on 04/17/2012

Mighty Christian of you.

[jeffrey678]

09:46 PM on 04/16/2012

Always prepare an exit strategy even if your satisfied. Document, Document, Document. The situation can change instantly. The employer worries if you have other options and leave him short handed. If you have the skills to take some customers with you all the better.

[SueZbell]

08:45 PM on 04/16/2012

Employers like "right to work" states--the label is a misnomer: mostly it means they can fire you anytime for almost any reason or no reason at all.

[MiddleMolly]

09:00 PM on 04/16/2012

That's true, but in most states the employer still has to show "willfull misconduct" to deprive you of unemployment benefits.

[intelliwoman]

04:14 PM on 04/17/2012

Here in Pennsylvania if you leave for any reason other than a layoff for lack of work, or the business itself closes you can't collect. Many business owners fire people on Friday and close the business a week later just so folks can't collect. My employer is very proud of the fact that she has been in business over 20 years and never has allowed anyone to collect. She has spent thousands and thousands of dollars in legal fees to fight appeals by employees, who eventually just give up.

[saving1939]

09:04 PM on 04/16/2012

they also give you the opportunity to work for less. All in all a good deal.

[MiddleMolly]

09:10 PM on 04/16/2012

Actually, that's what "right to work" means: "Right to work for peanuts".

[SirenForSanity]

01:30 AM on 04/17/2012

People have strange definitions of 'opportunity'.

[Lindytindy]

07:47 PM on 04/16/2012

Don't resign. Hang in there. Make them fire you or lay you off, it's waiting game. They will abuse, harrass and humiliate you however, be ready for that. Go to HR and get them to help you negotiate a job elimination if possible. Convince them that would be best for everyone. As it gets uglier, force them to fire you by getting in their face, disrupting the work, calling clients and telling them the ugly secrets management never wants them to hear, they will give up and fire you. It's a nasty game, don't let them take advantage of you more than they are determined to do. Turn the tables on them instead.

[MiddleMolly]

09:09 PM on 04/16/2012

If you call clients and badmouth the employer, then you may well be fired for "willful misconduct" and you WON'T get unemployment benefits. I agree that you shouldn't resign; and seeing if you can negotiate a job elimination through HR is a good idea. But do NOT give them any way to fire you for "willful misconduct" by disrupting work or badmouthing the company if you think you might need unemployment insurance.

[Six Mill]

09:24 PM on 04/16/2012

bad advice from a petty-the world isn't fair liberal whiner. doing those stupid things will ensure you never collect a ue check from that job. no, its not giving up...its giving you up and throwing your ()ss out with nothing.

[ruburnt]

07:09 PM on 04/16/2012

I can totally relate to this...I was fired two weeks ago...The owner of the company I work for saw a salaried technician washing his motorcycle during business hours. I was told to fire the guy because he was on a guarantee. I checked into it and it turns out the guy had clocked out for lunch and was washing his motorcycle on his lunch hour....didn't matter, when I told the owner...I was fired instead! Hope I get benefits!

[April22]

08:28 PM on 04/16/2012

Wow!

I'm speechless, well... almost.

State your case and I see no problem with getting benefits, but then, we never know how things will turn out these days. Seems more in favor for employers than employees.

I'll be thinking of you.

Good luck and all the best!

Been on the unemployment line myself for 2 years. Now working a scab wage part time job and hardly making ends meet.

[Six Mill]

09:27 PM on 04/16/2012

employers are makers and producers...unemployed are a drag on the system. oh and get skilled up and make something of yourself and get off the scab wage. there is a choice for you make there or are you being held against your will?

[SueZbell]

08:46 PM on 04/16/2012

Sounds like the employer wanted to "downsize" and was looking for any excuse--you just happened to give him one.

[robert horwitz]

07:03 PM on 04/16/2012

Though it was a rare during my working life that I was ever fired. I never felt that it was deserved. If for some unknown or unexplained reason to me someone got a burr under their saddle about me I would never and never did quit. A few times my benefits were contested by my employers but they always lost to me. Hard Cheese for them. I slept just fine at night. Not only that I got the added benefit of knowing that their insurance rates would go up.

[Century21Thinking]

01:48 AM on 04/17/2012

You sound like a "quality employee",,,
.very suited for the Progressive way of mind.

[robert horwitz]

08:56 AM on 04/17/2012

Century I'm not sure if your paying me a compliment or a left handed compliment. If your paying me a compliment I thank you. If your paying me a left handed compliment its OK because I'm left handed.

[48thGuy]

06:28 PM on 04/16/2012

Never be forced to quit job, make them fire you!

[MiddleMolly]

08:49 PM on 04/16/2012

I would agree with that, especially if you might have to depend on unemployment benefits for awhile. Also document, document, document any issues between you and any employer.

[Kevin byDesign]

06:26 PM on 04/16/2012

All it takes to get your unemployment benefits denied is for your Employer to contest the claim. It's up to you to prove you were laid off or fired. This salesman couldn't show up for work so they claimed he abandoned the job. Its says something about perception.
I can see both sides. Im glad the guy was able to collect; After all he had paid into the system and didn't willfully plan to leave his job.

[MiddleMolly]

08:59 PM on 04/16/2012

If they do so, then you need to appeal the decision. Generally, if you file for unemployment, a notice goes back to your employer and they have a certain number of days to contest your claim. If you say you are fired, you will probably be interviewed, either by phone or in person, as to the circumstances of your firing. Again, if they determine that you are entitled to benefits after such an interview, your former employer is notified and has a certain amount of time to respond. If they do contest, then, if you still want benefits, you will have a hearing. If you lose at the hearing stage, you then can appeal.

I'm glad the guy got his benefits as well. One thing that he could have done that would have made his case even stronger would be, after the supervisor told him he'd be fired if he didn't show up Monday, would be to write a letter (or email... not sure how legal that would be) making it clear that he wanted to keep his job, describing how he was going to resolve his transportation problem, and saying exactly when he would be back at work.

With that kind of documentation, he would be assured of getting UI if the company decided to fire him anyway.

If you are (or think you are) going to be unfairly terminated, document, document, document.

[Linda from Deerfield]

06:23 PM on 04/16/2012

A large group of people were pressed to retire early by my employer, and they were quietly told that the employer would not fight it if they applied for unemployment benefits. I guess I'm suggesting that, if you have the presence of mind to do it, ask, and maybe in that moment of pity for the poor soul who is being forced out, the answer will be a gracious one.

[MiddleMolly]

09:06 PM on 04/16/2012

This happened to a friend of mine many years ago. Many people were pushed into an early retirement package, and they were all told to file for UI. To be honest, I don't know how legal it is to be pushed into early retirement... I think if you say "no", and the company comes along and fires you, you might have a good claim against them for age discrimination.. but that's a tough one to prove. This man was pushed out when he was 50; he took the "package" instead of fighting the retirement. He started a business; it didn't work out, and he wound up penniless and almost homeless by the time he was 60. It's best if people who are pressed to retire early hang in there.

[Linda from Deerfield]

09:50 PM on 04/16/2012

Ouch. Good advice. I know that people sometimes think a separation package is more substantial than it really is, and sometimes they don't realize how much of it will go to income taxes, or how difficult it might be to get another job.