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Michael McAuliff
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Bill To End Indefinite Detention Fails In House

Posted: Updated: 05/18/2012 3:11 pm

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WASHINGTON -- A judge may have found unconstitutional the law that allows people to be held indefinitely without trial by the military, but the House of Representatives voted Friday to keep it anyway.

On Wednesday, Federal Judge Katherine Forrest found that the law violates rights to free speech and due process. But House members defended it, ultimately voting 238 to 182 against an amendment to guarantee civilian trials for any terrorism suspect arrested in the United States.

The measure, sponsored by Reps. Adam Smith (D-Wash.) and Justin Amash (R-Mich.), had been backed by a mix of conservatives, moderates and liberals who argued that letting the president decide to detain anyone -- including Americans -- deemed to be a terrorist was granting the executive too much power. And they argued that with more than 400 terrorists having been tried and convicted in civilian courts while dozens of plots were prevented, the law was unnecessary.

"The president right now has the authority to go outside the normal due process, constitutionally protected rights that are part of a court trial, and lock somebody up indefinitely or place them in military custody here in the U.S.," Smith said in floor debate. "That is an extraordinary amount of power to give the executive branch over individual freedom and liberty. I don't think it is necessary to keep us safe."

One Tea Party freshman, Rep. Morgan Griffith (R-Va.), took to the floor to note the judge's verdict and cite a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to James Madison in 1787 arguing for the Bill of Rights. Jefferson insisted that such liberties should be spelled out, not left to "inference." A key reason Forrest found the law unconstitutional was its vagueness and lack of definitions.

"Jefferson was not willing to allow us to rest on the rights of inference, nor should we in this Congress also be willing to rest on the rights of inference, and particularly when you have language such as this coming out of the court yesterday evening," Griffith said. "As long as I serve in Congress, I will stand up for liberty and make sure that no citizen of the United States has their due process removed."

Lawmakers who opposed the amendment, however, argued that mandating regular trials would tie the president's hands and give terrorists special rights.

"What that means is, as soon as a member of al Qaeda sets foot on American soil, the first thing he hears after 'You are under arrest' is, 'You have the right to remain silent, you have a right to be provided an attorney and if you can't afford one, one will be provided for you," Rep. Mac Thornbury (R-Texas) said. "There may be differences about how we treat illegal aliens who come here as members of al Qaeda to conduct terrorist attacks, but I think the vast majority of people in this body and around the country do not think telling them they have the right to remain silent as the first thing they hear is a wise thing."

Rep. Tom Rooney (R-Fla.) said the amendment treats terrorists like common burglars and offered his own amendment to only hold trials in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. It passed. Another counter proposal, sponsored by Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), suggested granting court hearings only to people who are legally in the United States. Amash argued, however, that the Constitution expressly says all "persons" are entitled to its protections, not just citizens or legal residents.

"I sometimes hear this strange argument that the Constitution applies only to citizens, not persons. If you read the Fifth and 14th Amendment, it applies to persons," Amash said. "James Madison said the Constitution applies to persons, and logic dictates the Constitution applies to persons," he added, noting that the government is no more allowed to tell non-citizens to worship a state religion or house troops than it is to tell citizens. "Of course not. That's ridiculous."

Gohmert's measure -- which essentially guarantees a habeas corpus hearing, but not a trial -- also passed.

Smith said he also found absurd the idea that his and Amash's amendment somehow helped terrorists.

"Hands down, the dumbest set of arguments I have heard ... [is] that somehow taking away this extraordinary power from the president rewards terrorists," he said. "I'd like to remind everybody, in particular, Tea Party conservatives, that just because the government arrests you doesn't mean you're guilty. Under their thinking, basically once the government says you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist. And we shouldn't have a trial about it."

"I cannot believe that Tea Party conservatives want to create a situation where when the government says you're guilty of a crime, that's it, no trial," Smith continued. "Let's just lock you up and forget about it."

In Forrest's ruling, the judge found that a group of reporters and activists had a reasonable fear that the government could deem them to have provided support to someone associated with al Qaeda simply by interviewing them.

The federal government has not said yet if it intends to appeal the case, and the ruling could end up trumping Congress' actions. The Senate also will be marking up its version of the defense bill next week, and some senators are intent on passing an amendment similar to the one sponsored by Smith and Amash.

This article has been updated to reflect the fact that amendments proposed by Rep. Tom Rooney (R-Fla.) and Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) both passed.

Michael McAuliff covers politics and Congress for The Huffington Post. Talk to him on Facebook.

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WASHINGTON -- A judge may have found unconstitutional the law that allows people to be held indefinitely without trial by the military, but the House of Representatives voted Friday to keep it anyway.
WASHINGTON -- A judge may have found unconstitutional the law that allows people to be held indefinitely without trial by the military, but the House of Representatives voted Friday to keep it anyway.
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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FZliveson 11:04 AM on 05/18/2012
Those who voted FOR indefinite detention are breaking their oath of office to defend and protect the constitution...The constitution prohibits granting titles of nobility. (The president, therefore, is just another person in the nation, governed by the constitution. In order to attain the presidency, he/she must have been born in the USA, a requirement not stated for any other official in the constitution,  Read More...
07:59 PM on 06/02/2012
"Place me not with those who are weak of mind and gladly give up the rights of others, for these poor ignorant sould knows not that the rights they give up are their own"
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11:10 AM on 05/28/2012
The vote on this bill was 163 of 182 Democrats for / 219 of 238 Republicans against. I'll point this out to my friends who insist there is no difference between the parties.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeBelAge
06:11 AM on 05/28/2012
Is anyone surprised? If so why?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jarhead Vet
Eliot Spitzer for President!!!
06:47 PM on 05/26/2012
Nothing but cowards running the show now...

So very proud to have served 8 years fighting for our freedoms so you can just take them away whenever you feel like it.

If you want a list of people who abhor American Freedom and want to brand Anti American, just put together every house and senate member that signed this, and then add the POTUS to the list and you'll have it.

I'm all warm and fuzzy inside that the current POTUS put in his signing statement that his administration wouldn't use this law... That's great! But since the last clown lied us into a war and legalized torture... What happens when we elect a real piece of work again?

He should have stood up and VETO'd this. That's what a real leader would have done.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tradjety
09:34 PM on 05/26/2012
here is a list of those that voted NO ... to the repeal of the NDAA section about indefinite detention

So in other words the NO voters are the ones who hate America

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll270.xml
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Hydra8
CEO, Monkey Business
06:48 PM on 05/23/2012
I say we Indefinitely Detain all of the House of Representatives, the GOP in the Senate and the Blue Dog Democrats, put them on a slow boat to China. They'd learn how good China's prisons can be for enemies of the State.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Austin Ray Walter
07:04 AM on 05/22/2012
I see many of you still think being a Republican or a Democrat actually matters. You can't be a defender of human rights, and believe in collectivism at the same time.
08:02 PM on 05/22/2012
You got that right!!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeBelAge
06:15 AM on 05/28/2012
I noticed the Dems in mass voted to end it and the GOP voted in mass to defend it.

Collectivism? What? That doesn't make any sense. Random usage of political terminology. Stop getting your education from right wing bloggers or talkers. God.
12:57 PM on 05/21/2012
another sad day in America, for those of us concerned for human rights.
04:31 AM on 05/20/2012
Barack approved.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeBelAge
06:16 AM on 05/28/2012
Obama approved federal judge just overturned indefinite detention.
04:05 PM on 08/30/2012
Oh, that makes it ok. You can litigate in support of unconstitutional laws as long as you put in place a federal judge that you know will make the right decision and disagree with your position? If that's the case, which is a ridiculous argument, what a coward. How's the Kool Aid?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cliveklg
I am a leaf on the wind
06:40 PM on 05/19/2012
More Tea Party Hypocrisy.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Austin Ray Walter
07:01 AM on 05/22/2012
These people don't represent the Tea Party, or its platform. They self-proclaim that they're tea-party conservatives, when they are not. These are the "Neocons" we keep referring to, that hijacked the Tea Party.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cliveklg
I am a leaf on the wind
05:30 PM on 05/22/2012
They didn't hijack it, they were the ones who started it from the beginning, and people were suckered into it.

The whole platform fed to the Tea Party what created by them and other like them. Now it comes back and bites them in the rear they claim that wasn't the tea party we created even though from the beginning it was pointed out they were being manipulated. It is revisionist to claim otherwise.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
readnu0711
10:03 AM on 05/19/2012
Lets do everything we can to get these horrible profiteering politicians out of office while there is still a chance!
09:59 AM on 05/19/2012
lets all stick together on this one if your elected official voted for indefinite detention lets fire them but we must all go to poles and vote before they take that right away. they are out of control . WE THE PEOPLE
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
smoknjoe
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
06:40 AM on 05/19/2012
There you have it folks. Democrats and Republicans voting to take away your rights. I believe the right to due process should be inviolate. If a U.S. citizen is caught performing a terrorist act, then they should receive normal due process and be given a trial in court. If it is a foreign terrorist, then let them take care of it at GITMO. Remember the preamble to the Constitution. It starts "We the people.." and all of the tenets of the Constitution apply to the citizens of the U.S. Foreign criminals do not have that protection.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeBelAge
06:17 AM on 05/28/2012
Check out the vote count. It passed because of the Republicans.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeLoup
Res ipsa loquitur, ergo tace!
01:24 AM on 05/19/2012
Why bother with this pesky stuff the so-called bleeding hearts call the Rule of Law?

Because of this:

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."-Thomas Jefferson

The People rest their case Your Honor!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tradjety
01:04 AM on 05/19/2012
Which side is constantly screaming CONSTITUTION!!!!!!!!!!!! In front of the cameras ???

Republicans.

Due process is in the constitution. Yet the majority of people that voted against the constitution this time were Republican ... does the hypocrisy ever end?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
smoknjoe
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
06:41 AM on 05/19/2012
Open your EYES and see how many DEMOCRATS voted for it. Now talk hypocrisy.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tradjety
09:51 AM on 05/19/2012
Did you even look at the vote? the numbers are given to us. Or did you mis understand the numbers?

This was a bill to repeal indefinite detention ... which means a yes vote to get rid of indefinite detention is what we are looking for .... in other words YES is GOOD

Yes voters

19 Republicans
163 Democrats

NO voters = people that like destroying the constitution

219 Republicans
19 Democrats

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll270.xml
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
lqw
Justmyopinion
07:41 PM on 05/18/2012
Why didn't Obama veto the law if he didn't like it ? Instead he signed it from Hawaii on New years Eve. He was hoping no one would notice.
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08:38 PM on 05/18/2012
And his administration **insisted** on the part about detaining US citizens without trial.
retiredfemale
Internet=no excuse for ignorance
01:08 AM on 05/19/2012
that is a lie, he insisted on the part that says US citizens and legal immigrants can not be arrested and turned over to the military for detention if they are on US soil; the original bill said that US citizens could be arrested 'anywhere in the world' which would have inclued US soil. They can still be arrested here but not turned over to the military or held indefinetly unless by order of the President and he wrote a signing order that he would not do that;
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tradjety
01:05 AM on 05/19/2012
I agree if Obama is better than the Republican candidate it is by a very slim margin