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Occupy Wall Street: What Happened?

First Posted: 09/10/2012 3:33 pm EDT Updated: 10/16/2012 9:26 am EDT

By the time the police kicked the protesters out of Zuccotti Park last November, the Occupy Wall Street movement had already split into at least two distinct factions. There were the mostly college educated activists and intellectuals who essentially made up the government of the park, and the drifters who slept in the park and relied on donations mostly allocated by the first group for food, clothes and other basic necessities.

After the eviction, some members of the first group tried to portray the raid as an unintended gift from Mayor Michael Bloomberg and the NYPD to the movement. The 22,000 square-feet village of tents and tarps had garnered incredible attention and hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations, but maintaining the space had come with significant challenges. In addition to feeding, clothing, and caring for the hundreds of people living there, the activists had to contend with the hazards of drug use and mental illness, reports of crime and the imminent approach of winter. Some saw the eviction as an opportunity to focus more of their energy on bigger things, like pushing for reforms to the financial system and to the United States government.

Members of the second group, many of whom had lived on the streets long before anyone pitched a tent in the name of “the 99 percent,” went in search of a new place to stay. Most eventually disappeared from the scene, but a few hung on, trying to find a spot where they could continue to live together in solidarity with the larger movement and in accordance with its communal values. For a time they found shelter in churches around Manhattan, but by the end of two months they had worn out their welcome. Their clergy hosts, many of whom had been happy to speak up for the protesters when they did not have to deal with them on a daily basis, balked at the difficulties of providing free housing to an unorganized group of indigents and turned them back out onto the streets.

There was an unsuccessful attempt to set up camp in Union Square, followed by an occupation of the steps of the Federal Reserve Building that lasted all of two weeks. Eventually the few remaining holdouts began to sleep on a section of sidewalk in front of Trinity Church, at the intersection of Wall Street and Broadway, where they remain. By September 17th, exactly one year after the first protesters camped in Zuccotti, this encampment will have been there for more than three months. The occupation of Zuccotti lasted for one month and 29 days.

Last fall, as cracks began to appear in the united façade of the Occupy movement, a protester and marriage counselor named Robert Adams told a reporter for The Huffington Post that the two groups needed each other to succeed. Referring to the “nomadic” types who lived in the park, he said, “They’re probably tough enough to survive whatever comes at us.” Although Adam’s professional life may have given him some extra insight into the strained relationship between the two parties, his perspective was hardly unique. Many protesters saw the uneasy coexistence of college professors and chronically homeless people as a testament to the movement’s unifying power and as an essential attribute of an ideal society, one which every person, no matter how marginal or poor, recieved an equal say in the decisions that affected their lives.

Today, as the movement approaches its first year anniversary, members of both factions are trying to recapture the lost energy of that time. Some in the first group are forming what they call a “debtors’ movement”, and are calling for the creation of agricultural communities where people can live off the grid and gain independence from the government. Some in the second group are “liberating” abandoned properties in Brooklyn, breaking into them in an attempt to convert them into new places where they can organize and live.

As it stands, though, without a common space to keep them together, the two groups barely communicate with each other. Distrust and disdain are pervasive, and it’s uncommon to hear anyone still making the case for greater unity between the movement’s middle-class idealists and its inveterate social outcasts.

On a Monday evening in August, I dropped by an office in Midtown Manhattan where members of the first group were meeting to talk about their plans for the movement’s birthday party. I’d heard that the protestors were working on “big things” and I wanted to see whether they still possessed any of the vigor and idealism that seemed so prevalent last fall. At the height of the demonstrations, information about the occupation was unavoidable, and the way that it swept through social media was unprecedented for a grassroots political movement, at least for one that started outside of Egypt, Tunisia or Iran. By the time the activists began planning their anniversary this summer, the Internet presence had grown much quieter. Maybe 100 people attended the Midtown meeting. Many of the old Zuccotti Park regulars were there — Ray Lewis, the retired police captain who was arrested in October; Marisa Holmes, the Hunter College grad student who seemed to be in the middle of every general assembly; Bill Dobbs, the deep-voiced communications specialist who got his start in the AIDS activism movement of the 1980s. The drab space was tucked away on the sixth floor of a nondescript office building, and it had a dull blue carpet, metal folding chairs, and boxes stacked on top of beige file cabinets. Everything about it was unremarkable and unattractive.

Last fall, encampments around the country transformed unexceptional public spaces into extraordinary wellsprings of debate, discussion and messy life. Nowhere was this truer than Zuccotti Park, an unloved square of granite benches that morphed almost overnight into a miniature village with bicycle-powered generators, a silkscreen, street signs, and a kitchen that served thousands. The spectacle attracted all sorts of people, including many who might not have normally showed up to a protest or a meeting on economic inequality. By contrast, the people who attend the meetings that make up most of the movement’s activities these days tend to belong to a core of dedicated insiders. As the meeting in Midtown began, everyone took turns introducing themselves by name and preferred gender pronoun. “Either she or he is fine,” said one protestor. The activists seemed as intent as ever on changing the world, but now that the world had stopped taking them seriously, their insistence on details like gender pronouns seemed more out of sync with the concerns of the majority of people.

After the introductions, people offered various proposals for anniversary stunts. Someone suggested wearing balaclavas in homage to the Russian punk band Pussy Riot. A man proposed holding “an open workshop to build giant puppets.” Several people argued over whether or not it would violate Occupy doctrine to apply for a permit so that an amplified band could perform. Another activist stood up in the back of the room and identified herself as a professional public relations consultant. “I feel like we’re speaking to ourselves and there’s not a 99 percent we’re talking to,” she said. “When we were designing the posters, a lot of people rejected the use of the word ‘country’!” There was a murmur in the crowd, and some people twinkled their fingers, a gesture of affirmation that most of the 99 percent have never made.

Todd Gitlin, a former leader of Students for a Democratic Society and the author of “Occupy Nation,” estimated that, at the start, Occupy consisted of a movement of about 50,000 people in the country. At its peak, the movement was able to mobilize many hundreds of thousands nationally, he said. Most of those people, he said, are now “politically unemployed.”

One of them, Max Bean, a talkative New York City teacher given to the sorts of in-depth cultural analyses you might expect of a Brown graduate, which he is, says he spent 12 to 15 hours a day, seven days a week, doing work for the movement last fall. This winter he sent a letter to about 60 other occupiers announcing his departure. A few days after the Midtown meeting, he locked up his bike and sat down on the steps of Union Square to talk about his reasons for dropping out.

He was initially drawn to movement, he said, when he saw a few people having a heated discussion about OWS right there on the steps of Union Square, and came to the conclusion that the movement could help people like these really listen to each other, something he hadn’t seen very often in the streets of New York. In the park, “we were trying to build a different kind of culture,” he said. “It was a dysfunctional community, it was a fucking mess, but I think that was a worthwhile and interesting goal.” After the park was cleared out, many activists shifted their energies to conventional protest tactics like rallies and sit-ins. “If you want to be very focused and organized, then those tactics might make sense,” he said, “but we weren’t any of those things.”

Some recent efforts carried out under the auspices of Occupy do go beyond sit-ins and marches. In Minneapolis and a few other cities, activists have been camping out in the homes of foreclosure victims and resisting arrest, and some of the homeowners have gotten their homes back. In Vermont, Ben Cohen, of the famous ice cream company, is funding a non-profit organization aimed at raising support for a constitutional amendment that would ban “money in politics.” He and his staff of Occupy activists are trying to get people to use rubber stamps to mark bills with messages like “Not to be used for bribing politicians,” an effort that he likened to selling Cherry Garcia. “To appeal to a broad swath of the population,” he said, “you need to communicate in simple, easy-to-understand terms and you need to have a really good product, and you need to do it with a sense of joy and fun and whimsy.”

So far these efforts haven’t come close to generating anything like the support and interest that made Zuccotti Park a front-page news story. Priscilla Grimm, who helped run the Occupied Wall Street Journal, a print newspaper that published more than 70,000 copies of its first issue last September, told me that she had parted ways with Cohen over his opposition to the use of the word “revolution” on her website. Wealthy donors like Cohen don’t “have skin in the game,” she said; if there really were a revolution, it would “affect their lives not in a good way.” Meanwhile, the Occupied Wall Street Journal has run out of money and will publish its last edition this month. When I asked Grimm why, she replied with a two-word history of the radical left. “Capitalism won.”

While some of the protesters huddle in out-of-the-way offices debating the wording of their posters, the drifters who make up the second faction of OWS sit at one of the busiest intersections in the world, displaying their own hand-scrawled protest signs to the thousands of tourists, businessmen and office workers who pass them each day. When they’re not shouting slogans at passersby, they talk with each other, smoke cigarettes, nap, flirt, engage in occasional spicy banter with the cops and sometimes get arrested. At night they sleep on sheets of cardboard and bedrolls spanning about 50 feet of sidewalk. At times, their numbers climb as high as 40 or 50; some nights they drop to the single digits. A little ways back from the sidewalk, behind an iron gate, stands Trinity Church, an 18th century structure with a 281-foot Gothic spire. The protesters chose this location because of a conflict that arose last winter when several Occupy activists and a priest were arrested while trying to set up a new encampment on a Trinity-owned piece of land several miles uptown.

In a recent letter to his parish, Trinity’s leader, Rev. Dr. James Cooper, wrote that he didn’t wish to have the police remove the protesters from the Broadway site, but noted that even if he did, “we are being advised that it is lawful for people to camp there.” What the police don’t consider lawful, the protesters say, is anything that gives the encampment the appearance of permanency. Over the past few weeks, the police have confiscated boxes of books, bags of donated food, and any cardboard signs that the protesters have left lying around. “They’re afraid we’ll start another Zuccotti,” one protester told me.

If that happens, it would be an incredible transformation. While Zuccotti had a library of thousands of volumes and a staff of professional librarians and professors, the Trinity camp has six books that someone spotted on the sidewalk in Brooklyn. Zuccotti had a funding pool of nearly half a million dollars and a group of bookkeepers to manage it; Trinity has a water cooler bottle where passersby drop maybe 20 or 30 bucks a day. The “People’s Kitchen” in Zuccotti served hot meals; the Trinity occupiers get most of their food from the trash.

A week after the midtown meeting I spent a few evenings at the Trinity encampment. One night, a 24-year-old girl named Amanda stood up in front of everyone with a huge smile and announced her husband was getting out of jail. As it turned out, she and her husband had met in Zuccotti Park and got married a few months later in a Brooklyn squat. They were both arrested this spring for drinking in public, and the husband was now finishing a four-month sentence for violating parole. Sitting back down on the sidewalk, she talked about her hopes for the movement. “We need to get our park back,” she said. “Our park is everything.”

For many of the people who lived in the park, the makeshift village there was a welcome reprieve from hard lives on the streets. Amanda had made her way there from a cheap hotel in Brooklyn, after losing her job at a restaurant and deciding to “sell my ass on the street. A man raped me and knocked my teeth out, and someone told me to go to Zuccotti: it was safe there. People cared about each other there,” she said. So why did it fall apart? “Because of money and infiltration,” she replied.

The anxiety over money goes back to the earliest days of the movement. The people who lived in the park, in particular, suspected the mostly better-off and better-educated bookkeepers of incompetence and greed, mirroring the attitude of the movement as a whole towards the American ruling class and Wall Street. By April, the savings had dwindled to several thousand dollars, and the protesters put a freeze on spending. Although there’s no longer much money to fight over, people are still paranoid about spying. Some of the Trinity crowd think that federal agents are watching them through binoculars from the second-story window of a building across the street, some describe their most dedicated members as informants, and I heard a number of conspiracy theories that reach back to the very founding of the country. There is a persistent rumor about Alexander Hamilton, for instance; they say he isn’t actually buried in the Trinity churchyard where flocks of tourists come to take pictures of the tombstone bearing his name.

Some of the Trinity occupiers are more paranoid than others. Of all the people I talked to, none seemed more reasonable and thoughtful than I.B., a 27-year-old man who says he built one of the first tents in Zuccotti Park and has been sleeping at the Trinity encampment for more than a month. I.B. speaks very slowly, pausing after every two or three words, as though to make sure that he is saying exactly what he means. Others at the camp respect him. Once, an aging hippy with wild gray hair came by holding up a sign and shouting something about Obama, and as he passed I.B. he slapped his back and said, “You never know, he might be the next president!” I.B. smirked at the absurdity of this, but you could understand the guy’s thinking. Tall, thin and black, I.B. bears a vague resemblance to the president, and he usually wears a grey or black suit and sometimes a tie.

Most days, I.B. stands over the tarp on the ground that serves as the equivalent of an information booth. Once, when I greeted him there, he told me that a woman had just stopped and exhorted him to vote in the election. When I asked how he replied, he laughed. Like many protesters throughout the movement, I.B. has no interest in electoral politics. He mentioned the National Defense Resources Preparedness act, an executive order signed by Obama this spring that gave the president unprecedented powers to appropriate national resources in the event of a national emergency. Many leftists saw this as an attempt at some sort of fascist power grab. “That convinced me that I’ll never support Obama and he’s not good for this country,” said I.B.

Like many of the people at the camp, I.B. gets most of his information about the world from websites and blogs and from other protesters. He scoffs at the mainstream press, and although his unofficial role as the camp’s information officer requires him to talk to all sorts of people, he describes his life until now as one of extreme isolation. His father was a Muslim leader in Harlem who had five wives and 30 children, and I.B. never got along with any of them, he said. He’s never dated, and he’s never had any close friends. Until he learned about Occupy Wall Street, his main interest was the Swedish heavy metal band Opeth. At one point in his 20s he ran an online forum for fans of the band, but he never had a face-to-face conversation with any fellow enthusiasts. When I asked if he’d seen the band play, he replied, very slowly, “I’ve never been to a concert.”

At the peak of the movement, many celebrities of the left came by Zuccotti to rally the masses: Cornel West, Naomi Klein, Joseph Stiglitz. I reached out to about a half dozen people who could be described as influential liberals, but only one, Ben Cohen, agreed to talk about Occupy Wall Street. As the election approaches, lefties have a new cause to rally around. Although it’s still unclear whether Obama will be able to win over the disaffected young voters who took to Facebook and Twitter to share their excitement about Occupy Wall Street last fall, the argument that there’s no significant difference between the two major parties seems increasingly feeble, especially now that the Republicans have nominated a billionaire venture capitalist who has selected as his running mate a congressional leader accused of seeking to dismantle nearly all of the major liberal legislative achievements since FDR’s New Deal of the 1930s.

The two classes of Occupy movement, meanwhile, have come to resemble two much larger segments of American society. The people on the street are increasingly like street people everywhere. And the people in the offices are increasingly like traditional left-wing activists. “We’ve become professionalized in a way,” said Marisa Holmes, the Hunter grad student leader who attended the Midtown meeting. “People don’t identify with that. If we become just another left movement,
we will suck the life out of it.”

In the last few weeks, perhaps a hundred occupiers from around the country have gathered in Tampa and Charlotte to protest the political conventions of both parties. Some protesters came from the Trinity encampment, some from the office contingent. The 15,000 reporters at the conventions barely acknowledged them. On September 17th, an indeterminate number of protesters will arrive in downtown Manhattan, the media capital of the country, hoping to capture the world’s attention once again. I.B. and the others on the corner of Wall Street and Broadway will be there to greet them — if they don’t first get arrested, that is.

The afternoon of Romney’s speech to the Republican delegates in Tampa, a police captain in a white shirt and a blue-uniformed beat cop strolled up to the Trinity protesters, snatched up some of their signs and continued down Broadway. One of the protesters, a young man wearing dirty cargo shorts, ran after them. “Why are you doing this?” he shouted. “Why are you violating my constitutional rights?” The cops ignored him and crossed the street. The protester stood on the sidewalk, screaming hoarsely into the traffic while a family waiting at a nearby hotdog stand stared at him and giggled. After a minute or two the protester walked back to the camp, picked up a fresh piece of cardboard, sat back down on the sidewalk and started working on a new sign.

This story originally appeared in Huffington, in the iTunes App store.

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By the time the police kicked the protesters out of Zuccotti Park last November, the Occupy Wall Street movement had already split into at least two distinct factions. There were the mostly college ed...
By the time the police kicked the protesters out of Zuccotti Park last November, the Occupy Wall Street movement had already split into at least two distinct factions. There were the mostly college ed...
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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ghee99 03:02 AM on 09/17/2012
yeah, what happened?

i mean, its shocking to think that your average american does not want to endorse central items of the occupy platform such as...
"lets forgive up to a quarter million dollars (per person) in college loan debts from kids who voluntarily took out loans to go to incredibly over-priced schools when there were countless less costly alternatives"

i cant imagine why a regular  Read More...
09:19 AM on 09/26/2012
The main message is cogent and across.

OWS: 1

New Revolutionary Detergent: 0

Hasta pronto.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tobeyjames7
Conservative American Indian Vet
08:46 AM on 09/22/2012
Hey Snafo, you boring article is longer than the Occupy Movement! Less is more.
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10:20 AM on 09/20/2012
This was a movement intended to protest disproportionate wealth, debt, poverty and was allegedly led by the disenfranchised, right? And it failed because of paranoia, discord within the ranks, disagreement of the direction it should take and lack of....funding(??). Or was it because the average citizen working a 40+ hour work week, managing his/her finances, obeying the laws of the society in which we all live, acting responsibly and taking same for his/her actions got sick and tired of mobs of "protesters" who were either there for the show or for personal gain with no regard for their comrades. Any worthwhile message got lost in the chaos. Or maybe when OWS didn't generate the general public support its zealots assumed it would everyone just got bored and went home.
02:01 PM on 09/19/2012
May be they were all stoned....
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
We Are All One
can't never could do nuthin'
10:47 PM on 09/18/2012
What happened? The peaceful protesters in their skirts and khaki pants were run off, arrested, pepper sprayed and shot. In many areas they occupied, the lawmakers conjured up new laws with legal loopholes to keep them off the streets. So much for freedom of speech...
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freeSpeakr
I stand on the shoulders of giants
10:44 PM on 09/18/2012
All the stories damning OWS with faint praise to outright dismissing the movement bring to mind the words of Edward Bernays …

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country." - Edward Bernays, Propaganda (1928). The rest of the quote is here - http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html
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Andrew Nutra
A Democrat against OWS
08:22 AM on 09/20/2012
Don't be saucy with me, Bernays!
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freeSpeakr
I stand on the shoulders of giants
12:35 PM on 09/20/2012
OK that's gd funny Count de Money.
F&F
04:21 PM on 09/18/2012
Occupiers get arrested and the tea-baggers don't.
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10:25 AM on 09/20/2012
Tea Baggers, of which I am not one, generally protest peacefully, don't "occupy" anything or anyone's property, gather briefly and then disperse and...go back to work. They don't demand handouts, don't camp out in public parks, don't march down public streets disrupting traffic, don't destroy public property and don't commit felonies against their fellow Tea Baggers and other citizens. Big difference. Huge.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ApprxAm
Oh, dam_…the dam is broke!
01:07 PM on 09/18/2012
The doom began with the name itself. Wall Street isn't the only problem.

Protest are like anger, a difficult state to maintain; it's too exhausting. So sitting in a park in tents requires a constancy which is, and was, easily broken by deed (cops) or words (media; marketing opportunist) or stupidity (FauxNewz; Jay-Z) and good ol fashion fatigue.

Sitting in front of Wall Street wasn't enough. Action has to take many forms and lasting, meaningful change requires political and economic aims. Events must be just that: Events. But the real work should've been the organization of small, local movements targeted at local people under the thumb of Wall Street, of course, but local officials, businesses, institutions.

OWS was simply a good idea left alone to die a good death.
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10:30 AM on 09/20/2012
Actually, it was a limited idea with limited merit that was poorly executed, briefly caught the imagination of a relatively small core of people for whom protest is an avocation and died because it lacked the strength of message to sustain it. It was basically a political flash mob.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ApprxAm
Oh, dam_…the dam is broke!
02:09 PM on 09/20/2012
The idea was expansive, a problem in and of itself.  What was limited was focus.

A flash mob?  Come on.
05:17 AM on 09/18/2012
... the argument that there’s no significant difference between the two major parties seems increasingly feeble, especially now that

President Aceveda will waffle in the face of more Republican kabuki theater, and rubber stamp Simpson-Bowles anyway, effectively adding the elderly to his long laundry list of people he and the DNC have literally house-wiggered away into order to preserve crony capitalism and the dominion of centrist-extremism.

As for the disintegration for Occupy, one need only look at the two factions - the "Used To Be Middle Class" and the "Still Dirt Poor" -- and realize that the late George Carlin predicted the implosion: "NIMBY: Not In My Back Yard. People don't nothing near 'em as long as it'll help somebody else. Specifically somebody rattier, fuglier, and more homely than they are. It's part of the great generous American Spirit we keep hearing about. *DREEET!* Great wholesome American Spirit."
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Aesops
Appearances often are deceiving
01:35 AM on 09/18/2012
OWS was just an opening act. The required groundswell of support is not dependent on organization or values. It will come when the currency is destroyed, because it is through the currency that a government rules society. When the day comes that the currency is meaningless, the average man's world will fracture from the state, because the state is just a promise. Once the promise is unfulfilled, the structures of the state will be torn down.

IMHO OWS is a quaint version of a revolt against power. It is a personal interest story with zany characters, and people playing house in a park. When the real tide of discontent comes in, there will be confusion and desperation and there will be a sense of solidarity without the "reality show" circus. It wil not be a choice but an imperative.
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10:34 AM on 09/20/2012
Interesting post, certainly more cogent than most, but you still remind me of the cartoon of the bearded guy in robes walking down the street with his "The World Will End Tomorrow" sign. Your "when" is a huge "if". As currency as we know it becomes irrelevant, it will simply be replaced by another means of exchange. Commerce demands it, and we are all part of commerce. Even you.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Aesops
Appearances often are deceiving
10:59 AM on 09/20/2012
Well, I don't have a beard, and I don't have a sign.  But I agree with what your saying; it is far from a inevitable.  But when I said meaningless, I 'm really just saying that when its value is eaten away to an extent that many more people are struggling, that is when changes will occur faster.  Currency can be replaced, but not without great cost to society; it is the intervening period that is an issue.
10:11 PM on 09/17/2012
The problem with the occupy movement is that they occupied the wrong place. Nothing can come of occupying Wall Street. Do people expect the banks to reregulate themselves? After spending all that money on campaign contributions and lobbying to have the Glass-Steagall Act repealed? They should have occupied Washington, D.C. That's where this current recession and the bank bailouts were born. Wall Street couldn't have pulled this off without the help from their puppets in Washington, and only Washington can fix it. Of course, if Washington refuses to fix it, only the people can, and only after much blood flowing through the streets.
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10:37 AM on 09/20/2012
As long as we're placing blame where it belongs, let's replace "Washington" with "Obama and the Democratic majority in the Senate". And prior to 2010, when the bailouts maxed and the economy started its real downward spiral, the Dems held BOTH houses of Congress. Instead of camping out in parks, they should have camped out on the National Mall and the lawn of the White House. It ain't Wall Street that's the problem, it's govt policy.
09:09 PM on 09/17/2012
An Alternative to Capitalism (since we cannot legislate morality)

Several decades ago, Margaret Thatcher claimed: "There is no alternative".
She was referring to capitalism. Today, this negative attitude still persists.

I would like to offer an alternative to capitalism for the American people to consider.
Please click on the following link. It will take you to an essay titled: "Home of the Brave?"
which was published by the Athenaeum Library of Philosophy:

http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/steinsvold.htm

John Steinsvold

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
~ Albert Einstein
06:51 AM on 09/18/2012
Deleuze and Guattari note that Capitalism as a system and structure, both pretends to reflect and also to substitute itself for some very perverted and insane vision of "the natural world".
08:37 PM on 09/18/2012
Eugenio,

Most important to humans are his well being and the welfare of his family and society in general. The reward that people inherently seek is image; it is respect and reverence from their community.

Today, we live in a materialistic society. Material wealth is a status symbol. Currently in the USA, wealth directly symbolizes competence, power, and intelligence. In a way of life without money, we will all be economically equal (or nearly so; at least poverty will be eliminated). You will not be able to tell a CEO from a janitor by the clothes they wear or by the cars they drive or by the homes they live in. The aristocracy in a way of life without money will be those who contribute the most to society in the way of achievement, leadership & ideas. They will be held in our esteem.

Perhaps for the first time in history, we, as a nation and as a people, have the ability to conduct our internal economic affairs without the need to use money. We have the necessary democratic government, we have the abundant resources, we have the educational facilities and also the technical knowledge to do so. In light of what is happening in our economy today, should we not, at least, explore this possibility?

John Steinsvold
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10:47 AM on 09/20/2012
Perhaps you've missed the myriad examples of societies/gov'ts, many of them still extant, that have experimented with alternatives to capitalism and market-driven economies. How successful were/are they? Gov'ts that once were vehemently anti-capitalist now increasingly embrace and promote private enterprise and capitalist policies. When market forces are artificially controlled, the forces that promote innovation and progress are inevitably stifled, dependence on gov't largess increases, and the concentration of wealth in gov't is inevitable...and inevitably self-defeating. When there is no reward for personal initiative, personal initiative will stagnate. Capitalism thrives because it rewards positive change and ignores "class-ism".
03:36 PM on 09/25/2012
Agdoc,

Yes, in the past, there have been numerous attempts at various forms of "Utopia". For example, at Johnstown, people hunted at night so they wouldn’t have to share their food with others. It failed because food was scarce in those days. As a nation, we can supply the necessities and luxuries for everyone many times over. Otherwise, a way of life without money could not be attempted. Other groups have tried by isolating themselves in a colony but could not sustain themselves because of their isolation. Each has a sad story to tell.

As I envision a way of of life without money, we will gain economic freedom in addition to and without infringement on our present freedoms. The ONLY common denominator between a way of life without money and socialism/communism/Marxism is economic equality which, in my opinion, we desperately need here in the USA. Economic equality will eliminate poverty. It will also eliminate materialism which warps our sense of value and corrupts our system. It will also reduce crime dramatically. Otherwise, our government will remain the same. The Democrats will still do battle with the Republicans. Our free enterprise system will still exist as it does today.

John Steinsvold

"The free market is indeed free. Its free of responsibility and accountability. Owners are free to ignore the future, free to act in ways that generate short term gains for themselves and push long term costs onto other people, the environment and the future."
-Lloyd Ireland
heterodoxlibertarian
bleeding heart libertarian
06:05 PM on 09/17/2012
I think Occupy Wall Steet was unfairly demonized. A number of people within the movement were raising legitimate issues, focusing in on how big business and big government have rigged the game in favour of the few with countless special rules, privileges, subsidies, loopholes, and exemptions. Libertarian's and conservative's should reach out to the movement. There is a lot of common ground. If we could make that clear, I think a lot of people within the movement would be open to hearing how free markets- as opposed to the crony capitalism we have today- actually help the masses.
06:57 AM on 09/18/2012
Dualism, especially a dualism that pretends to espouse some absolute morality, is an inveterate demonizer.

It is also a heavily worked Capitalist tool, its version of the double negation, in a now habitual US syllogism, to wit:

(1) X is demonic

(2) We oppose X

(3) Ergo: we are right and angelic in whatever we do in regard to X.
05:40 PM on 09/17/2012
Its time we organize as Retail Investors. We absolutely require better protection than what is being offered.

Aside from our personal investments, alot of our pension money is in the way of a train wreck.

Anyone interested in creating a Facebook page email me - aim is to get this discussion going. OWS failed because it had no focus or lost it very quickly.

I would like to focus on the power we do have. And that is our collective money in the stock market.

maschine@shaw.ca
photo
rmrgdr
Why you are VERY welcome!
03:33 PM on 09/17/2012
WS failed long ago, it never connected with the 99% it claimed to represent, it never TRIED to connect. OWS felt it beneath them.
I work for a law firm in Los Angeles. When OWS began, many professionals optimistic, ( I'm saying this first hand).
Ows quickly turned into nothing. Camping in parks, Guy Fawkes masks ( straight from the movie), confronting cops, painting faces like skulls etc. was OBVIOUSLY adolescent even worse, irrelevant. Marching with hippie drums, aged longhairs, wearing ski masks terrorist style, they passed the REAL places where the powerful gather , (they were oblivious, they don't even know what those places are), instead harassing peopleusing ATM's ,"occupying bank lobbies., Harassing some guy trying to cash a check, good strategy. Hispanics dressed as Aztecs, DEMANDING and end to "banks and prisons"!
, There were "protestors" on skateboards!
They were kids, couldn't have been more naive as to how things work. It took a week to realize this' was nothing,. It wasn't a gnats whisper against the roar of the ocean.
Yet OWS continued on, hostile to criticism, constructive criticism ( it still is). Arrogant,condescending to the very people it needed, OWS did EVERYTHING wrong, squandered what could have been, Don't blame OWS demise on billionaires, the press, etc.. It just doesn't, never did matter. Despite hype, the whole thing was community college, so wrapped up in "revolutionary' dogma, it's JOKE.
07:03 PM on 09/17/2012
Amazing how quickly they lost track of the main message. This message came from a Chicago poster and is fairly simple to ke3ep track of.

" I didn't cause the financial meltdown"

" Why am I paying for it."