Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney have now both dodged questions about their tax plans by saying in essence they would copy a strategy that they describe as "failing to lead" when President Barack Obama has done it -- leaving details to Congress.

In Thursday night's debate, Ryan did it in refusing to disclose the tax loopholes that he and Romney say they would close to "broaden" the tax base and pay for a tax cut estimated to cost at least $5 trillion. They assert that by closing those loopholes, their tax cut would be entirely paid for.

But neither man has suggested a single loophole, such as the mortgage deduction or deductions for charitable giving, that they would close.

Instead, they want Congress to make those choices.

"We want to work with Congress -- we want to work with the Congress on how best to achieve this," Ryan said.

"We said here's the framework, let's work together to fill in the details," he said at another point. "That's how you get things done. You work with Congress."

But when Obama has offered broad outlines and asked Congress to fill in the details, Republicans -- and some Democrats -- accused him of a failing to lead.

Ryan did so later in the debate.

"Leaders run to fix problems. President Obama has not even put a credible plan on the table in any of his four years to deal with this debt crisis," Ryan said. "I passed two budgets to deal with this. Mitt Romney's put ideas on the table.

"The president likes to say he has a plan," Ryan said. "He gave a speech. We asked his budget office, 'Can we see the plan?' They sent us to the press secretary. He gave us a copy of the speech."

"You see, that's what we get in this administration -- speeches -- but we're not getting leadership," he added.

He did not note that he thought it was okay when he and Romney only have a plan.

Also on HuffPost:

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  • Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin shake hands after the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Michael Reynolds)

  • Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin shake hands after the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Michael Reynolds)

  • Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin gesture after the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Michael Reynolds)

  • Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin gesture after the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Michael Reynolds)

  • Joe Biden, Paul Ryan

    Vice President Joe Biden, left, and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, shake hands following their the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/David Goldman)

  • Joe Biden, Paul Ryan

    Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin shake hands after the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

  • Joe Biden, Jill Biden

    Vice President Joe Biden kisses his wife, Jill Biden, following the vice presidential debate with Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/David Goldman)

  • Vice President Joe Biden talks to Janna Ryan, wife of Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin after the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Michael Reynolds)

  • Paul Ryan, Janna Ryan

    Republican vice presidential nominee, Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, kisses his wife Janna following the vice presidential debate with Vice President Joe Biden at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/David Goldman)

  • Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan's wife Janna, left, shakes hands with Jill Biden, wife of Vice President Joe Biden, following the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/David Goldman)

  • Joe Biden

    Vice President Joe Biden listens to Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)

  • Paul Ryan

    Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin answers a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

  • Paul Ryan, Joe Biden

    Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, right, listens to Vice President Joe Biden during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)

  • Paul Ryan

    Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin answers a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

  • Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin participate in the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Rick Wilking)

  • Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin participate in the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Rick Wilking)

  • Paul Ryan, Joe Biden

    Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, right, and Vice President Joe Biden discuss a point during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/David Goldman)

  • Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin participate in the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Rick Wilking)

  • Paul Ryan, Joe Biden, Martha Raddatz

    Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, right, and Vice President Joe Biden, center, listen to moderator Martha Raddatz during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/David Goldman)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    A combination picture of the vice presidential debate between US Vice President Joe Biden (L) and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 11, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin participate in the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Michael Reynolds)

  • Vice President Joe Biden answers a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Michael Reynolds)

  • Paul Ryan

    Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, makes a point to Vice President Joe Biden during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)

  • Joe Biden, Paul Ryan

    Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin answer a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    US Vice President Joe Biden (L) and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) participate in the vice presidential debate at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz (C) of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    US Vice President Joe Biden (L) and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) participate in the vice presidential debate at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz (C) of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    US Vice President Joe Biden participates in the vice presidential debate with Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (out of frame) at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    US Vice President Joe Biden (L) and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) participate in the vice presidential debate at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz (C) of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    US Vice President Joe Biden (L) and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) participate in the vice presidential debate at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz (C) of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • Paul Ryan

    Republican vice presidential nominee, Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, speaks during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/David Goldman)

  • Vice President Joe Biden speaks during the vice presidential debate with Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/David Goldman)

  • Jill Biden, Beau Biden, Hunter Biden

    Jill Biden, center, wife of Vice President Joe Biden, sits with her sons Beau Biden, left, and Hunter Biden, right, before the start of the vice presidential debate, at Centre College in Danville, Ky., Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)

  • Paul Ryan

    Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin answers a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    US Vice President Joe Biden (L) and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) participate in the vice presidential debate at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz (C) of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    US Vice President Joe Biden (L) and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) participate in the vice presidential debate at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz (C) of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    US Vice President Joe Biden (L) and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) participate in the vice presidential debate at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz (C) of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • Vice President Joe Biden answers a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Rick Wilking)

  • Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin answers a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Michael Reynolds)

  • Joe Biden

    Vice President Joe Biden reacts to a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

  • Joe Biden, Paul Ryan

    Vice President Joe Biden, left, and Republican vice presidential nominee, Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, challenge each other during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)

  • Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin watches as Vice President Joe Biden answers a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Rick Wilking)

  • Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin participate in the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Rick Wilking)

  • Joe Biden

    Vice President Joe Biden answers a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

  • Joe Biden, Paul Ryan

    Vice President Joe Biden, left, and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan, of Wisconsin, respond to moderator Martha Raddatz during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)

  • Janna Ryan, Ted Olson, Lady Booth Olson, Betty Douglas

    Janna Ryan, second from right, wife of Republican vice presidential candidate, Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., his mother Betty Douglas, Ted Olson, second from left, former solicitor-general of the U.S. and his wife Lady Booth Olson sit in the audience before he start of the vice presidential debate, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, at Centre College in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Mary Altaffer)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    US Vice President Joe Biden participates in the vice presidential debate with Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (out of frame) at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) participates in the vice presidential debate with US Vice President Joe Biden (out of frame) at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz (L) of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • US-VOTE-2012-DEBATE

    Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R) participates in the vice presidential debate with US Vice President Joe Biden (out of frame) at the Norton Center at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, October 10, 2012, moderated by Martha Raddatz (L) of ABC News. AFP PHOTO / Saul LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/GettyImages)

  • Vice President Joe Biden answers a question during the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Michael Reynolds)