iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Alan Schroeder

GET UPDATES FROM Alan Schroeder
 

Veep Debate Post-Mortem: What the Pundits Missed

Posted: 10/14/2012 12:20 pm

A few lingering thoughts about the vice presidential debate...

Although I am a veteran debate observer, I often have difficulty discerning a clear victor when I watch these programs. Not this time. Joe Biden's performance may have been over-exuberant, even borderline obnoxious, but in two key ways Biden won this debate hands-down.

First, from the opening moments Biden achieved what every television debater strives to achieve: he grabbed the starring role for himself and reduced the other guy to second banana. On Thursday night the vice president of the United States didn't just conquer the screen, he laid waste to it.

Second, Biden approached the debate with a clear strategy, a strategy that he succeeded in pulling off. By raising the issues that Barack Obama failed to raise in the first debate, Biden laid out a substantive case for the Democrats. Like a bad-ass prosecuting attorney, he challenged his opponent on point after point, keeping Paul Ryan -- and, by extension, Mitt Romney -- on defense for pretty much the entire debate. Furthermore, and of no small importance, Biden reset the table for the upcoming town hall between the top-of-the-ticket principals.

So why were the pundits so reluctant to call Joe Biden the winner of this debate? To many in Washington's political/media elite, Biden's aggressive/dismissive attitude toward Ryan seemed undignified and therefore out of bounds. The personal nature of Biden's criticism offended the pearl clutchers of our nation's capital, who fetishize bipartisanship and cluck at behavior they deem excessively sharp-elbowed.

If you believe Dick Cheney, Biden gave "the most emotionally unstable debate performance in modern American politics." Well, Cheney is half-right: right about the emotional, wrong about the unstable. Because Biden knew exactly what he was doing on that stage. Was he over the top? Absolutely. But his operatic delivery was calibrated to achieve a particular response -- and for the most part Biden drew the response he had been seeking.

It bears mention that this is more or less the same maneuver that Romney pulled off in his opening match with Obama, albeit through vastly different means. Romney dominated by seizing control of the agenda and the mechanics of his debate, capitalizing on the president's unanticipated passivity. Biden dominated by sucking up so much oxygen that his opponent was left gasping for air -- or, more accurately, water.

It appears that Beltway pundits felt they needed to grade Ryan on the curve, given his short history on the national stage. That's fine. Ryan and Biden did not step into the arena as equals, so it is appropriate to consider that disparity when passing judgment. But I suspect there's another reason the Washington press did not want to be too anti-Ryan: Declaring him a loser would have interfered with their preferred narrative of Paul Ryan as rising star.

In many ways Ryan's performance was admirable -- he isn't Dan Quayle or Sarah Palin -- and no doubt he'll have plenty of future opportunities to refine his art. For the moment, however, Ryan remains more of a supporting player than a leading man. He lost the visual debate with Biden not just because Biden hogged the lens, but also because of innate challenges the younger man faces as a television performer. For starters, Ryan has the wide-eyed, youthful face of an anime character. The debate's relentless two-shots showed Ryan looking like a puppy whose master was scolding him for leaving a mess on the floor. And Ryan suffers from a high-pitched, nasal voice that undermines his efforts to sound authoritative. A good vocal coach would be a smart investment.

Furthermore, it did not help Ryan that on the day of the debate Time magazine released from its vault a series of photos showing the congressman working out at the gym. As the visual appetizer served just before the debate entrée, these images did Ryan no favors. The pictures reinforced Ryan's immaturity -- exactly the wrong message that he needed to convey at that moment.

Ryan lost the debate at least in part by looking and sounding as if he were running for student council. My reaction as I watched was that it felt like a father and son arguing at the dinner table -- which may have been the effect Biden intended. Remember Ronald Reagan's comeback quip to Walter Mondale in the second 1984 debate: "I am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience..."? Biden took just the opposite approach.

Beyond the visual realm, Ryan showed evidence of being a poor listener, which is a major debate no-no. We saw this at the end of the program, when moderator Martha Raddatz cited a conversation she had had with an American soldier dismayed by the negativity of the presidential campaign. What would you say to him? Raddatz asked the candidates. And are you ever embarrassed by the tone?

Biden answered first, not very memorably. When Ryan's turn came, after the obligatory "thank you for your service" and "we won't impose military cuts," the candidate proceeded to his main point: "And then I would say, you have a president who ran for president four years ago promising hope and change, who has now turned his campaign into attack, blame and defame." For another 400 words, Ryan's anti-Obama peroration continued. The sheer cluelessness of this was stunning. Had Ryan even heard the soldier's question?

But enough about Paul Ryan -- in the final analysis, this was Joe Biden's debate. Throughout his 90 minutes upon the stage the vice president reminded America that he is a larger than life character, a throwback to a time when, for better or for worse, picturesque politicians loomed over our electoral landscape.

Yet Biden's triumph was only partly about personality. It also had to do with strategy. This was the second veep debate in a row in which Biden has successfully executed his mission, delivering a pair of performances as different as night and day. This ability to modulate himself to suit the occasion is an achievement that got lost in the post-debate analysis, overshadowed by all the belly laughs and pearly whites and overlapping dialogue.

This column is cross-posted on the Presidential Debate Blog.

 

Follow Alan Schroeder on Twitter: www.twitter.com/ProfASchroeder

FOLLOW POLITICS
A few lingering thoughts about the vice presidential debate... Although I am a veteran debate observer, I often have difficulty discerning a clear victor when I watch these programs. Not this time. ...
A few lingering thoughts about the vice presidential debate... Although I am a veteran debate observer, I often have difficulty discerning a clear victor when I watch these programs. Not this time. ...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 433
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Highlights
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (8 total)
photo
Heartlight3
Every act is an act of self-definition.
09:41 PM on 10/15/2012
I don't see why Biden gets criticized for interrupting and smiling too much, but no one criticizes Romney for interrupting the President and steamrolling over the moderator. I thought Romney was manic and rude. Obama may have been off his game that night, but Romney was a bully and definitely not the kind of person I would want as President.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
03:43 AM on 10/16/2012
Because Biden is a liar when he said he did not vote for the Iraq and Afganistan war resolutions. It is time for this writer to tell us this. Biden had the so called moderator on his side as well, stopping Ryan when he was midway in making his statements and free reign and not stopping him from alowing Ryan to answer the questions. Biden lost this debate because he came not to debate Obama's record whis is dismal.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Giggie
09:26 AM on 10/16/2012
It's okay for Romney to outright lie now about his agenda....no info on what his tax plan will be, we are suppose to believe somehow that he is going to turn his back on his campaign financiers in favor of the country. When Ryan didn't match up to Biden at least be a grown up about it....stop blaming the moderator. Obama lost the first debate, agreed, he made mistakes in his style...etc., you didn't hear whinning from the democrats about bias of the moderator. Grow up.
photo
novapsyche
liberal (adj.): free from bigotry
01:11 PM on 10/16/2012
Biden voted against going to war *without paying for it*. That context is obvious when you look at the entire quote, where he references Bush putting the wars "on a credit card" & talks about the unfunded Medicare expansion & the Bush tax cuts.
01:03 PM on 10/18/2012
Biden didn't just interrupt, he interrupted on average about once per minute (85 times in a 90 minute debate). He also kept laughing, smiling and in other ways acting in a manner totally unbecoming of a vice-president.

In terms of Romney in the first debate - he was personable and respectful and at choice times pushed for more time. In essence, he managed to control the time, but without all the antics that Biden displayed.

Last night (i.e., the second debate) the roles were semi-reversed. The President at key times controlled the time - in particular, he spoke up at moments that Romney wanted to speak up and prevented him (with assistance from the moderator) from speaking. Watch the debate again and look out for it - it was a very clever strategy.

In short, I don't think Romney or Obama were rude - shrewd is a better word. Biden wasn't only rude, he was a caricature - extremely embarrassing.
expattam
I remain confused
09:40 PM on 10/15/2012
"In many ways Ryan's performance was admirable -- he isn't Dan Quayle or Sarah Palin -- and no doubt he'll have plenty of future opportunities to refine his art."

More like Admiral Stockdale? "Who am I? Why am I Here?"

ok... maybe not that entertaining, but dam.n close.
photo
myakkakat
Compromise is not a 4 Letter Word
07:40 AM on 10/16/2012
Anyone who does not remember or has never seen Admiral Stockdale's debate performance really should do themselves the favor of Googling it and watching! LOL
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carl Caroli
I just don't understand people
07:17 PM on 10/15/2012
"Ryan lost the debate at least in part by looking and sounding as if he were running for student council." His arguments were sophomoric at best, even when he was answering the question, which he seemed to prefer to ignore anyway..
05:20 PM on 10/15/2012
Biden lied and continued the Administrations deception and cover-up on the events in Benghazi. He claimed that the administration comments were based on what the intelligence community told the White House but this is false. The White House knew in real time that there were never any film protest in Benghazi but the White House continued to blame the film for weeks including the Presidents speech at the UN.

Then Biden said there had been no request for additional security. Even when he made this statement there had been nationally televised sworn testimony in front of Congress by both the officials who requested increased security and the officials who admitted denying the requests.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PrometheanSalvation
Bringing fire to cleanse the land.
06:09 PM on 10/15/2012
That you have to twist like this shows that you really have nothing. The American public doesn't care that the President doesn't oversee staffing at each embassy, or expect him to. All that Benghazi tells us is sometimes it takes a little while to get the whole story.
11:02 PM on 10/15/2012
The whole world knows that the Intelligence community, the State Dept., and the Libyans knew 24 hours after the attack that it was a terrorist attack. Biden lied.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
03:54 AM on 10/16/2012
Harry Truman ha a sign " the buck stops here" meaning he took responsibility for everything good or bad that happened in his administration. Obama, owns high unemployment, Bengazi desaster, five trillion added to our national debt in three and a half years. He is in way over his head and was only elected because of his race. He has no substance.
photo
doinaheckuvanutjob
Cheering for a permanent Republican minority
02:28 AM on 10/16/2012
OMG!! That must be true, because you say so.

Sorry, but your little scandal report isn't a scandal-- we don't even know what happened with that yet.

And, sorry but your vicious little boy Ryan got owned, pawned. Deal with it.
photo
novapsyche
liberal (adj.): free from bigotry
04:58 PM on 10/15/2012
I've been saying for days just this, that Biden used his derisive laughter intentionally to signal to the audience when his rival had made a misstatement, a distortion or an outright lie. His body language was utterly calculated & represented a shift of the Obama/Biden team to adjust to Mitt Romney's own tactics eight days before.

I had failed to consider the Ryan/media narrative slant, however. Thank you for the enlightenment.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
03:57 AM on 10/16/2012
Biden has no substance that is why he had a perminate smile fixed like Ronald MacDonald.
06:31 AM on 10/16/2012
His permanent smile may have been the result of knowing a joke when he saw/heard one.
photo
novapsyche
liberal (adj.): free from bigotry
01:07 PM on 10/16/2012
Biden had facts & figures at his fingertips.  What about that is without substance?
photo
ozzysboy
...every moment...is the representative of a whole
04:35 PM on 10/15/2012
I for one, am glad for Biden's antics--they were an appropriate response to the lies Ryan was spewing. The MSM seems to have forgotten how to call a politician on lies, seeming to seek some odd notion of "balance". A lie needs no balance; it needs calling out and refutation. That Biden's facial gestures and laughing was seen as disrespectful is fine; it was more disrespectful for Ryan to think he could spew garbage at us and avoid giving us any details--like a carnival magician--as though that passes for political discourse.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
04:01 AM on 10/16/2012
Yeah lies like high unemployment 8.2 percent, a natonal debt that five trillion dollars was added to and owing China one and a half trillion dollars we can never expect to pay back in our life time. You must be the benificary of governmoney to talk like you do.
06:30 AM on 10/16/2012
What's that got to do with Biden? Most of what you are complaining about was part of Bush's legacy to Obama, Biden, and the American people.
04:35 PM on 10/15/2012
So Romney lied and that was the worst thing in the history of politics...then Biden lies and makes faces and laughs and hes " picturesque"...what a joke....hes a politician ...in the worst sense of the word
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
bklynsparrow
creating reality from unreal things
05:52 PM on 10/15/2012
GO to factcheck if you want to see who really lied. And  it's interesting, as Schroeder points out. Romney pretty much used the same tactics and Republicans were crowing. But when the shoe is on the other foot- well, your post explains it all.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
04:03 AM on 10/16/2012
But Romney told the truth and Biden lied that is the difference.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PrometheanSalvation
Bringing fire to cleanse the land.
06:10 PM on 10/15/2012
Biden didn't lie, though.
11:04 PM on 10/15/2012
Oh, yes he did, on multiple occasions.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
04:05 AM on 10/16/2012
Yes Biden did lie he said he didnt vote for the Iraq and Afganistan war resolutions and he did,where was the liberal media's truth finding on that one!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
03:31 PM on 10/15/2012
Exactly...Biden had the experience and the wisdom to realize he was performing in a stage play, not a movie...and all his gestures had to be magnified several times over. Joe held the audience captive just as movie stars know they have to dramatically change their acting technique when they go to Broadway. Brilliant, Joe....
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Osmona
Its GREAT to be alive and SANE.
03:20 PM on 10/15/2012
I LOVE me some Joe Biden. I was VERY PROUD of him last Thursday. Thank you VP Biden. 4 MORE YEARS.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
04:06 AM on 10/16/2012
Don't hold your breath on four more years.
02:50 PM on 10/15/2012
About Obama though, were this something else, other, than his political life I would have said he failed as well, sounds contradictory perhaps, but still not without basis. As one can assume that like most politicians he would be moved motivated by the above, if naught else.

Such that I think his "failure," was as deliberate as Bidens:

That the 47%, as a for instance, will or was scheduled to show up in the latter debates as a star performer. Where it will be fresh, and not just another topic, at the end... of the debate series.

Could be wrong, but I don't think so.
02:34 PM on 10/15/2012
The Republican's can cry all they want. Romney gets up there takes over the podium, tells lie after lie and everybody thinks he's just great. What a bunch of crap and I'm not buying it and I hope all other's who watched the presidential debate aren't buying it either. Was Obama off that night. Yeah.......he was. So what. What's not to like about Joe Biden. If I were in a court I certainly would want him to represent me.....who wouldn't? He flatly just whipped the tar off of Ryan's face and the Republican's. Nobody even brought a pencil to write down names. Ya gotta love Joe!
02:29 PM on 10/15/2012
I haven't seen any of the pundit class comment on one of the most ignorant (from a legal standpoint, that is) things said by Ryan, and which appears to be the latest GOP "position" on abortion rights. Ryan basically said that the individual states should determine, in local elections, what kind of abortion rights the citizens of the states should have.

THAT IS ABSURD.

The Supreme Court has decided that the Constitution's several explicit guarantees of personal privacy are broad enough to cover the personal right to terminate a pregnancy (under certain conditions). That is a fundamental Constitutional right, which by definition, MEANS that it cannot be overridden by some accidental majority in a particular community. Since Ryan has no legal training, it appears that he's not even aware of his own ignorance along these lines -- but surely Romney must know better, given his own first-class legal training.

Suppose the GOP were to say that our Constitutional rights of freedom of speech, or freedom of religion, or freedom of the press "should be determined by a local majority of the local community," as Ryan said at the debate. Would anyone have objected to this absurdity, pointing out that this is NOT the way fundamental Constitutional rights work?

So why didn't any of the know-it-all pundits make the same objection to Ryan's abortion response?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
04:12 AM on 10/16/2012
Too bad your mother didn't use her right to abortion before you were born. Just making a point.
photo
RRoadrunner
Living in a 'Pro-ignorant culture'
01:50 PM on 10/15/2012
"he grabbed the starring role for himself and reduced the other guy to second banana"

Bingo. Right on the money!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
04:14 AM on 10/16/2012
A point of view from the left I agree with you but from the middle Biden dlied when he said he did not vote for the Iraq and Afganistan resolutions. That was shameful!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
KoolBreez
01:21 PM on 10/15/2012
Speaking of what pundits missed, I think at one point Biden referred to John Roberts as Robert Bork.. Did any one else hear that? I could be mistaken..
calidesigner
Progress Wins
05:16 PM on 10/15/2012
He was referring to Bork. And rightly so. Made a good point for those of us old enough to know what he was referring to.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PrometheanSalvation
Bringing fire to cleanse the land.
06:12 PM on 10/15/2012
He was referring to the fact that Bork is a Romney legal and SCOTUS adviser.
12:44 PM on 10/15/2012
The problem with liars, is that when they are allowed to continue lying without accountability, when they percieve the lies to have produced a beneficial effect, they become bolder and lie more. Joe Biden did what so many of us in the public want to do. He called Ryan on his lies, mocked him, showed no respect for lies, and generally gave the negative response that lies SHOULD recieve. Of course Joe laughed, rolled his eyes, showed no respect, that's what you do when someone lies to you. I enjoyed Biden's performance, and truly enjoyed Ryan's obvious discomfort when forced to sit front and center as his lies were called out. Biden did an excellent job, and imo nothing should have been changed, except perhaps to demand more specifics and explanation from Ryan when the lies were called out instead of prepared talking points every time he was at a loss.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mark One
04:17 AM on 10/16/2012
What were Ryan's lies? Tell us every one of them as you preceive them.