Obama vs. Clinton: What Tips the Scales

Watching some Democrats kick around Mrs. Clinton has grown into a sad spectacle.

Hillary Clinton would make a fine president and I think all reasonable people know that. She would make a better president, offering more constructive policies protecting more Americans, than McCain could ever hope to. Her problem is that Americans, in any given election cycle, can become inflamed with a true passion for change that can only exist in a country like ours. She does not represent that change as well as Mr. Obama does. In spite of her superior capabilities in many areas, Obama would still move into the White House with more foreign policy experience than George Bush had when Bush and his brother stole the election in 2000.

Americans can put up with a lot. After these past eight years, they have proven that they can put up with more than anyone ever imagined. However, that cannot hold forever.

What Mrs. Clinton has that Mr. Obama does not have, Mr. Obama can get. What Mr. Obama has that Mrs. Clinton does not have, she can never get.

Which one is the best hope at defeating McCain, who sounds more like a Bush brother with every passing day?

Comments

[GreatWiLLHuntg]

Mrs Clinton could get the passion for change. But we cannot elect her unless she gets it.

If she does get the passion for change, Mrs Clinton must articulate it far more pragmatically than Mr. Obama has . She might even get specific about what changes, instead of fanning generic enthusiams, as Mr Obama usually does, fanning owrks best he thinks without concrete projects and mapped paths to ACTUALIZE DESIRABLE CHANGES.

One or both of them should begin to get down to doable plans to win the election

Otherwise, the same old is going to sell itself in the same old way and throw in a few changes to seal the deal again.

[jp1949]

Just remember that the vote count is pumped up by Republican votes since they are allowed to vote in Democratic primaries. The Republicans want to go up against Obama not Clinton. It would be nice to know the actual votes cast by Democrats. I think the victories would be less for Obama. Second, the political analysts who support Clinton have been taken off CNN and other broadcasts. The Obama campaign complained loudly and got their wish. This election stinks of playing favorites. The Republicans are so organized they outsmart the Democrats at every turn.

[loisinthepink]

Take a look at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/20/201332/807/36/458633 Someone did a lot of research to come to a conclusion on whom to support. Check it out.

[athy]

Will some journalist please ask the candidate -What on earth was Obama thinking when he chose Zbigniew Brzezinski (ZB ) as one of his foreign policy advisors??? http://www.nysun.com/article/71123

ZB was one of main people responsible for convincing the US govt to arm the mujaheddin.

Zbigniew Brzezinski (ZB) endorsed Obama for presidentt. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con
tent/article/2007/08/24/AR2007082402127.
html
Lastyear,(ZB) was interviewed in http://www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.h
tml

During the 1960"s and 1970"s he (ZB) was so focused on fighting the evil Russian empire that he completely ignored the existence of radical Islamic fundamentalism. He gave poor advice to President Carter. The ramifications of his (ZB)being so blind-sided helped to nurture the evolution and expansion of Osama Bin Ladin"s (and others) terrorist groups. In 1998, Brzezinski was interviewed by the French newspaper Nouvel Observateur on the topic of Afghanistan.
http://www.counterpunch.or
g/brzezinski.html

[partyofone]

I guees Obama needs a bad national security consultant to help him counter the bad advice Hillary is taking from Madeleine "Attack Iraq" Albright.

[buske]

Did anyone sane really think that the enemy of this country would allow a "progressive" president? An Obama?

It is true that the corporate media is portraying Obama very favorably. The reason is, as soon as Hillary is out of the way, they are going to launch massive, vicious non-stop attacks against Obama. That's when the enemy's candidate walks in: Bloomberg. The fiscal austerity mayor of New York City. That's the fascist new President of the USA who will enforce the policies of the enemy of this country.

Divide and conquer. Let Obama knock out Hillary. Then attack.

[Brount]

Well said Mr. Baldwin.

This election is critically important at this stage in the history of the United States. The nation must change its course on so many fronts from its economy,to its foreign policy to its domestic polices.

Mr. Obama understands this and appears to posess the best credentials - and proven experience- to achieve this. This is not to denigrate Ms. Clinton's experience or achievements but Mr.Obama inspires one to believe that change can and will occur under his management while Ms. Clinton fails miserably in this respect.

Given the cumulative experience of President Bush and his Cabinet members - and the disaster they will bequeath to the American people - the question of experience (as Ms. Clinton espouses ad nauseum) counting as the pinnacle point for a presidential candidate is near mute.

Thank you.

[2sleepy]

Barack Obama makes me think of my Dad who would take me by the hand and tell me that if I was brave enough, and strong enough the world would be mine- that nothing could stop me. I knew when he was saying it that it was not entirely true, but it always made me feel good- is that wrong?

[yummymaplesyrup]

What did GWB make you feel like?
Sleeping Beauty?

[tish]

Alec,

What tips the scales is that if Obama is the
Democratic nominee, I will NOT vote for him; I'd rather vote for McCain--or Nadar (if he decides to run). This goes for my husband , our extended families, and our immediate circle of friends--all of whom have been staunch Democrats in the past.

Why, you may ask? Because

1. he, Obama, has propped himself up as a kind of messiah/savior or as a king (much like our current King George!) Voting for Obama means drinking the Kool-Aid and thus becoming another glossy-eyed OBAMATON;

2. he played the race card & the victim after the NH primary. Playing the race card in the general election will be very divisive for the nation (Scrutiny of a presidential candidate/nominee is not racism!);

3. he is arrogant in believing that Hillary supporters will vote for him, but that his won't vote for her. This is the message he keeps sending his followers;

4. he and his supporters--with the help of the media!--have relentlessly eviscerated Senator Clinton since the beginning of the primary process. As a woman, I'm offended by the Obama camp's shameful disrespect of her. Air America, for example, in its shameful promotion of Obama has been especially brutal to Senator Clinton;

5. finally, he is not as seasoned and experienced as Senator Clinton. As her VP he would get the experience and training needed for the 2016 presidency. Moreover, she will not take a VP spot, which means that we may only have the White House for 8 years instead of 16 years if Hillary is President.

[MilwGonzo]

First of all, a vote for Nader is insane. His pattern is to disappear for 3.95 years then come out as an alternative to the two major parties. This is nothing but an ego trip from a person that should be admired for all he has done for consumer safety but is slipping into ridiculousness fast.

And you say that McCain, who parrots Bush-crap better than anyone, is a better choice than Obama - sounds like you drank the kool-aid!.

Some comments on your comments -

1. Obama "propped himself up as a kind of messiah/savior or as a king" - it's funny but isn't he getting lots more votes in caucuses and primaries than Clinton (and all of the Republicans added together)? He's inspiring people in ways that makes poor 'ol Hillary shake her head in disbelief.

2. "He played the race card" - wasn't in the Clintons that made the goofy and regretable Jesse Jackson and LBJ/MLK remarks? It didn't take too much of this behavior to made them (the Clintons) look like the desperate fools they are.

3. "He is arrogant in believing that Hillary supporters will vote for him, but that his won't vote for her" - given that his support has risen in every demographic area that Hillary thought and believed she had locked up, doesn't that say something about Barack being able to "convert" her supporters? I wonder how many Clinton supporters are former Obama followers... He's done the work in every state and has an organization that is turning out the vote. I'd say he's confident - and he should be. Arrogance - now there's an image of Hillary that isn't hard to conjure up.

4. "have relentlessly eviscerated Senator Clinton since the beginning of the primary process" - when Hillary started going negative, Obama replied with statements that were appropriate. When he says it's fair to look at judgement as a meaningful measure of leadership and points to Hillary's vote to invade Iraq as an example, it's hardly an "evisceration." Politics is about winning, and each candidate gets to choose how to get into the fray. Barack has been a class act, while Clinton has revealed herself to be a win-at-all-costs, can't-stand-to-lose, I-deserve-this-shot whiner.

5. "he is not as seasoned and experienced as Senator Clinton" - let's see, Obama has held elective office since 1996, whereas Clinton was first elected in 2000. I don't know what your definition of "seasoned" is but Obama worked as a community organizer in low-income communities and directed a voter registration drive and, as an attorney, represented community organizers, discrimination claims and voting rights cases. He's been a champion for the less advantaged for much of his career.

It's time to retire the Clintons to the lecture circuit. Most people are ready to see them head off into the sunset. Let's hope she does it with class next Tuesday or soon after.

[jp1949]

Its time for you to retire your stupid assertion that the Clintons need to retire. I have respect for Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton. You want Americans to respect Obama but your language is insulting and discriminatory. I wouldn't vote for Obama if he was the only person running and neither would anyone I know. He's disgusting and a liar.

[Meah]

Pathetic. I think your whole family should vote for Ralph Nader. Then you might believe that your vote has meant something.

Ha!

Barak Obama is no messiah. He is just smart. I guess you don't want a smart president. Used to the one we have, I suppose.

Ever hear of the word projection? Naw.

You have drunk the koolaid, friend.

[Zeusthunderbolt]

Lets us go donate, and make sure the messiah wins and the people from the middle and north of the country who stood in freezing temperatures to vote for him are not disfranchised.

Let us go and donate so that " We the delusional will be called the AMERICAN PEOPLE< YOUNG AND OLD, WHITE AND BLACK, ASIAN AND HISPANIC, DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, MEN AND WOMEN WHO CAME, VOTED IN DROVES FOR THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET, INSPIRED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA AND CHANGED THE AMERICAN POLITICAL LANDSCAPE.

How is that for a change that we believe in? Can we? NOOOO say the Hillary lovers: do not dream, the republicans are here to stay, their machinery is too strong, Rush Limbaugh is too powerful, you guys are being fed false hopes, no one except Senator Clinton can beat the republican machine. But do not count on her inspiring you, for that is below her. Read her record, she knows the issues, and ignore her hateful rhetoric, ignore her temper tantrums, she has been working hard all her life for this, so that all the women could feel that men are not sexist anymore, so the glass ceiling could be lifted. See the light yourself, you ignorant, delusional, dreamers, republicans, independents, young democrats, old fools, vote for her, just do not come out to listen to her or we will call you a movement. We are cynics, realists, anti movement democrats, who hate you all. If it was not for you she would be our nominee and guess what, she is a fighter and she would have won anyway. She does not need to inspire, she does not believe in word but action and solutions. Who needs more democrats in the house and Senate? She can rule with one vote majority. She is the girl we have been waiting for.

So I have a choice. Go back to the hole I crawled out of, accept the republican dominance of ideas, accept that things will remain the same, forget I felt inspired to be part of something bigger for the first time, accept that I had been duped and had become delusional. Loose all hope for hope is always just that , Hope. The world can never get together. Republicans and Democrats can never work together. The dream of bringing the world on a table is delusional. The Iranians can only be tamed by bombing. They will never wisen up, even if we stop being a bully. All Muslims are Islamic Fascist Terrorists. They are warmongers and we are in a third world war with them. Do not believe in the false hope that this war can ever end with dialogue. They have to be eliminated. Do not hope for a better future for our children. This is all baloney. Let us elect a president who does not believe in changing the nations mind about misguided conservatism. Who cannot inspire by her speeches to make people believe that they can be better than the sum of their genetically controlled selfish pursuit of dog eat dog capitalism. Come to that conclusion on your own. If you believe in that because you were inspired by the empty words of a messiah like cult producing leader then you are not worthy of your betterment anyway. This country and the world can only be changed by policy manuals, relying on loyal non confrontational, lackey cabinet members who will follow the experience and wisdom of a woman who has been studying the issues for 35 years.

Or I can Hope that change is possible, that words inspire, that people can come together , and the world can be a better place without war. ( Do I stop here and let these words of hope and Change Stand or explain all the above again, for some leaders and their followers will once again call them empty rhetoric ------- oh my , how can we ever win against this Clinton machine ).

[maizie]

Jimmy Carter was inspiring, too. He was the change we needed, too. An honest man who'll do what he says, who looks out for the American people. The cure to what ailed us. And look what "they" (the right wing) did to him. Absolutely annihilated him. They'll do the same to Obama. I'd rather have someone who can fight back and that is Hillary Clinton. Presidential politics has changed since Reagan. There's no room for naivete.

[partyofone]

maizie, Hillary can take anything the Republicans can dish out, but she can't beat Obama. Too funny.

[FauxNewsAlert]

If Obama can't fight back as you claim, why is he kicking her ass all over the country (11 in a row) despite her negative attacks? Just some food for thought.

[Oridaman]

Oh PLEASE!!! Carter was a nice man that had stupid advisers working for him, that and the fact that Poopy(NOT a misspelling) Bush was head of the CIA at the time assured that the hostages weren't going to be released until Ronny McRaygun got elected.

[Zeusthunderbolt]

Let us elect a president who does not believe in changing the nations mind about misguided conservatism. Who cannot inspire by her speeches to make people believe that they can be better than the sum of their genetically controlled selfish pursuit of dog eat dog capitalism. Come to that conclusion on your own. If you believe in that because you were inspired by the empty words of a messiah like cult producing leader then you are not worthy of your betterment anyway. This country and the world can only be changed by policy manuals, relying on loyal non confrontational, lackey cabinet members who will follow the experience and wisdom of a woman who has been studying the issues for 35 years.

[the964kid]

This sums it all up. Hillary's frustration is based on the fact that she has not been able to inspire people around her. At some point she needs to stop blaming the media, or Obama, or 'dreamy-eyed voters' and look in the mirror.

[Meah]

Bubba should have kept his mouth shut. THAT tipped the scales. I like him, but she did not control him when she should have. Nobody likes that crooked finger pointing.

[mcquaid]

Here's a few reasons Hillary would not make a "fine president"

Her campaign advisor Mark Penn; Her Vote in favor of allowing Chimpy to Invade Iraq; Her Vote in favor of the Bankruptcy Bill; Her Continuing Votes to Continue Financing the Iraqi Occupation. Her Inability to Admit that Her First Iraqi Vote Was A Mistake.

Oh, one more: Her co-sponsoring of a Flag Burning Amendment...

Yeah, any Democrat would be a better choice than McCain, but she's the least better choice by far....

[Zeusthunderbolt]

This country and the world can only be changed by policy manuals, relying on loyal, non confrontational, lackey cabinet members who will follow the experience and wisdom of a woman who has been studying the issues for 35 years. She is the girl we have been waiting for. Thank God she is non inspirational or we would be called a cult, loose all credibility and be labeled brainless. Following are the esssential qualities of the next adminstration to prevent Cult followers and save the world from evil republicans:
Favoritism based, rewarding of complete blind loyalty, lacking foresight, hate based, divisive, dishonest, destructive, poll based, condescending . Our future president promises to deliver and if you do not beleive look at the way she is running her campaign. It fits the bill, doesn't it?
Do not forget the promise of change based on policy manual solutions developed over the last 35 years of EXPERIENCE.

[Zeusthunderbolt]

This country and the world can only be changed by policy manuals, relying on loyal, non confrontational, lackey cabinet members who will follow the experience and wisdom of a woman who has been studying the issues for 35 years. She is the girl we have been waiting for. Thank God she is non inspirational or we would be called a cult, loose all credibility and be labeled brainless. Following are the esssential qualities of the next adminstration to prevent Cult followers and save the world from evil republicans:
Favoritism based, rewarding of complete blind loyalty, lacking foresight, hate based, divisive, dishonest, destructive, poll based, condescending . Our future president promises to deliver and if you do not beleive look at the way she is running her campaign. It fits the bill, doesn't it?
Do not forget the promise of change based on policy manual solutions developed over the last 35 years of EXPERIENCE.

[jp1949]

Alec: Did you know that CNN took Paul Begala and James Carville (who support Clinton) off the air on CNN until after the primary ends. I was not surprised since the media are McCain or Obama supporters. The media has trashed Clinton every day including the Huffington Post. I don't believe readers should be blindfolded because a publication or news agency is for one candidate or the other.

[partyofone]

jp1949, what's the current temperature inside the Clinton Bubble. Are the Bushies there too?

[frenchtwisst]

Many of us would beg to differ with you, Mr. Baldwin as many of us are fine, proud Americans that think living under another Clinton Presidency would be suffocating, embarrassing and hard to handle for four years. What Mr. Obama does have, and you are so right in saying Hillary could NEVER have is finesse, class, integrity, and he captures the attention of a new wave of Americans. Hillary is the epitome of a screeching mother-in-law that harps on people and lectures instead of TALKING and listening.

Many of us fine Americans thought the last eight years under Mr. Bush was a mighty fine time in our lives and would vote for him again if permissible.

Many of us fine Americans would take a Bush presidency, an Obama presidency, a Huckabee presidency, a Paul presidency... ANYTHING but another Clinton presidency.

It is not surprising that you would support the kind of people the Clintons come across as.. the disregard you have shown in certain newsclips that have aired to your other humans is consistent with how the Clintons treat others.

Go Bush.. Go Obama, Go Huckabee, Go Nader.. Go Paul.. GO AWAY CLINTON !

[nightangelstars]

It's so wonderful to see you'd rather vote for a racist than a woman who isn't feminine enough for your archaic standards.

[Meah]

A racist? Against whom? Pathetic!

[Ajita]

I do not think Clinton would be worse than any republican, but I also object to your insinuation that femininity is either archaic or not leader-like.

Please stop playing the gender card. Sometimes its because of the issues and the voter's political preferences. I like Segulene Royal more than Margaret Thatcher, not because she is more feminine, but because I support her socialist ideals and despise the war-mongering policies of Thatcher. Not everything is about gender or race.

[krnewman]

I'm glad he didn't call Sen. Clinton a "rude, thoughtless pig."

[caywen]

Stop her now. Or forever hold your peace.