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Alex Wilhelm

Alex Wilhelm

Posted: May 25, 2010 02:43 PM

Coming straight from the arrogant piffle department, the creationists are back. After their attempts to foist Intelligent Design into our schools failed, they have been forced to find new locations to spread their non-theory. In this publication Dr. Karl Giberson recently proclaimed quite boldly that "Intelligent Design's Coffin Is Still Empty." I say 'boldly,' as I was quite surprised by the title. Intelligent Design not dead? It could not be. What had happened in science without my noticing that had given creationism merit? As it turns out, perhaps unsurprisingly, Giberson had nothing new to say. Indeed his article was a rehash of several well-worn gripes that are often worked up to appear supportive of Intelligent Design.

As a quick aside, it is very appropriate to discuss Intelligent Design here in this place of religious dialogue. Intelligent Design, which is creationism, is a religious position. You will never meet a non-religious person who is a proponent of Intelligent Design. Religion does not preclude an understanding and acceptance of evolution, but non-religion does end one's chances of finding any truth in Intelligent Design. Do also note, as we move along, that Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory. It is untestable and unfalsifiable, therefore failing the definition of the word 'theory.' It is not an alternative theory, a competing theory, or anything of the sort. It is a poor conjecture created by religious charlatans to push an anti-science agenda.

Giberson's post had four main points as to why Intelligent Design is somehow in his view still alive (hence the empty casket). We shall take them on one at a time. His first claim is perhaps the most interesting, as science has proved him wrong in a new way since his article was published.

1. The complex designs of many natural structures that have not yet been explained by science. As long as there are ingenious devices and intricate phenomena in nature (origin of life, anyone?) that we cannot understand, there will be ID arguments.

Before I introduce our recent scientific breakthrough, we can dispense with this simply. This is an application of the "god of the gaps" theory, the idea that whatever science cannot explain, god must have done. You can see the fallacy of the idea quite simply. We know more today than yesterday, and thus either god became smaller or he was never there at all. When science was much more ignorant, this sort of idea held more weight.

With respect for the clock we shall move on to our next disagreement with Ginsberg's point, that of abiogenesis. The creation of life was just cracked by science. Not completely, and not well, and only in a laboratory, but we have finally created life out of a pile of matter. Impressive, and completely contradictory to what Ginsberg is attempting to say. He wants you to feel that either science knows everything, or god exists. It's a straw man argument, with the scarecrow being the need to have everything fully explained in this instant.

Science is working as quickly as it can to learn. History has shown it a very dangerous game to bet against discovery's progression. In short, Ginsberg says "Intelligent Design has some weight as it explains things that science cannot," to which we retort, "It actually explains nothing at all and is egregious pseudoscience."

2. The remarkable, finely-tuned structure of the cosmos in which the laws of physics collaborate to make life possible. Many agnostics have had their faith in unguided materialism shaken by this, most recently Anthony Flew.

Ah, the fine-tuning argument. It is impossible to even speak to a person with faith in creationism without their pointing up and saying, "See!" Here Ginsberg is attempting to connect things that do not cross, saying, "Look at the universe! Therefore, god." This is unimpressive to say the least.

I could direct you to a library of material on this matter from the best astrophysicists and theoretical physicists, but that would take time; arguments that show the literal emptiness of the claim are short enough to share here.

When one looks at the universe, and the Earth, and takes note of the machinations that are required to make their particular life possible, it can be quite impressive. "Look what the Lord has provided for me," you might proclaim. That the universe appears to be somewhat designed for you should come as no surprise; after all, you are here. Given that our species has arisen, certain conditions must have been true for several billions of years. The mistake that most people make at this point is to assume the existence of humans as fact, and then to mold the universe to that fact. That is wholly backwards. Humans could just as easily not have evolved. The fact that we are here is a tribute to the universe as it is. We are therefore only a product and component of it, not its culmination.

At this point we must discuss the ego of the living. "But we do exist," shout the creationists, "so there must have been a plan." It is sometimes phrased differently: "We are here, so there must be something more," and so forth. Fine, let us take it as fact just for a moment that there was a plan. To paraphrase several skeptics, if we are a plan, we are quite a bad one. We took an entire universe billions of years to eke out, our species almost died off in its infancy, and even now we fail to feed ourselves. Our single planet is mostly inhospitable to human life, and we find ourselves at the mercy of nature itself far too often. Even more, our planet is doomed. The sun will expand into a red giant soon enough, burning away all water on earth and thus killing off everything alive. Following, in a few more billion years we will collide with the Andromeda galaxy. If god's great grand plan was to bring forth a universe to allow him to craft a broken, generally warlike people on some small rock away from the Galactic core before smacking it with another galaxy, then good on that plan. Just don't expect any logical person to give you a moment of their time when you try and pitch it.

3. The widespread belief that God -- an intelligent agent -- created the universe. The claim that an intelligent God created an unintelligent universe seems peculiar, to say the least.

This is a reason why Intelligent Design is viable? This is merely an example of how uneducated people make mistakes when they are confronted with a discipline that they do not understand. This is not a reason for Intelligent Design to be treated with any sort of respect or dignity; it is merely an exhortation of our school system to improve itself to help prevent mass ignorance.

As to the intelligent god creating the unintelligent universe, he seems to be saying that as so many people believe in creationism, they cannot all be dolts, and as god would not want his creation to be foolish, god created the universe thus validating their view. Logical gymnastics aside, his core point is wrong. Deists believe in just that: that god kicked things into motion and then got out of the way.

4. The enthusiastic insistence by the New Atheists that evolution is incompatible with belief in God. Most people think more highly of their religion than their science. Imagine trying to get 100 million Americans to dress up for a science lecture every Sunday morning -- and then voluntarily pay for the privilege.

Ginsberg makes two points here, the first claiming that as the New Atheists insist that evolution and religion are incompatible, Intelligent Design will live on. He then states that as a country, we put much more emphasis and weight on religion than science; we respect it more.

Again Ginsberg gets his facts in a bunch. In fact we Americans do pay more for our science than our religion. Look at the national budgets for education, and for federally funded scientific research. Now add in private school and university education and research budgets. Finally tack on the expenses of private enterprises working to create scientific breakthroughs not just one day a week but seven. The totals are not even close.

Now are science and religion compatible? Personally, I don't think so. I never managed to pull off the feat when I was religious, but the scientists that I know best disagree with me. Perhaps it is best to say that science and religion can exist side by side. They cannot exist, however, on top of each other. They do not mix. No scientist that I know, or have known, has or will support Intelligent Design. Leave religion and science apart; when they mix, nonsense ensues.

Ginsberg closes by saying that science's attempts to quash Intelligent Design have been an "abysmal failure." Has science really failed? Or is it more the truth that was never any substance for science to crush, that Intelligent Design was always mere puff and fantasy? You know the answer.

 

Follow Alex Wilhelm on Twitter: www.twitter.com/alex

Coming straight from the arrogant piffle department, the creationists are back. After their attempts to foist Intelligent Design into our schools failed, they have been forced to find new locations to...
Coming straight from the arrogant piffle department, the creationists are back. After their attempts to foist Intelligent Design into our schools failed, they have been forced to find new locations to...
 
 
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oldfuzz
...within my mind
06:12 PM on 06/18/2010
Intelligent Design is a movement to present the Genesis creation story as science. The Dover trial proved that to all except the ID fanatics.

I suggest we offer a course in mythologies, probably optional, in high schools to study creation stories from various cultures. One of my favorites is from the Hopi. The purpose of a creation story is the same as any story: to create meaning in that which is beyond knowing. Mythologies abound. The movies offer a constant parade of them. Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Avatar, the Bourne Trilogy... and on and on it goes.

Let's get ID out in the bright light where it can be seen for what it is, the attempted concretization of a myth.
11:20 AM on 06/05/2010
Intelligent Design is a body of serious scientific inquiry asking questions about information content in complex, functional biological systems. To invalidate the debate, simply list it under "religion" and state non-religious types never participate in ID. Trick definitions abound. You're able to discredit PhD scientists by classing all their hypotheses as religious speculations.
Atheism too is a religious position, but when you control news media and install your coreligionists in abundance, your religion can be defined scientific fact.
Darwin's disciples learned immediately they could not answer their critics in science. They moved on to the political realm. When they say all scientists agree..., it implies the threat you won't be one long if you don't agree. Clout tops reason. If you want truth, you must go to sources and do your own thinking among yourselves.
Is your science still about observation? Darwinism fails. You must first believe and rule out every contrary thought. Hate those who ask inconvenient questions about information content. Of course rocks can write DNA code. If it took consciousness, we wouldn't be here, because...of course ...there is no God. There can be no explanation involving intelligence.
Rocks write, or at least they long to. Kept wet long enough, they can take life to themselves spontaneaously, reproduce and redesign upward. Mere molecules made microbes and men. That's science under the New World Order. All who will not convert must be killed.
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GeorgioSutton
08:50 AM on 06/09/2010
Look guy, scientists don't hold peer reviews with 100's of scientists trying to fault their theories they're proposing. If anyone is trying to prove themselves wrong it's scientists. I don't know what you're reading or listening to. And you're accusation of atheism being a religion is just annoying too. 95% of scientists agreeing is nothing more than decades of evidence piling up. There's nothing militant about it. I'm no biologist but it's common sense that in the realm of science all scientists try to do is refute arguments of peers constantly ...if there was overwhelming evidence for ID they would look at it. Simple as that. They wouldn't stuff it under the rug and banish every single person that disagreed....that is just stupid.
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oldfuzz
...within my mind
06:25 PM on 06/18/2010
"Intelligent Design is a body of serious scientific inquiry..." Please cite published research that has been peer reviewed and critiqued.

"Atheism too is a religious position..." No, atheism is not a religious position, it is a disbelief in deity(s). Of course, to be precise, there is theism and non-theism. At the boundary between them is agnosticism. Within non-theism there are atheists and inconsequentialists (those who do not subscribe to either view. They see the theistic concept as being of no consequence.)

There are many atheist/non-theist religions: Buddhism, Taoism, Humanism (although humanists are divided as to whether they are religious), Ethical Culture... and one interesting religion, Unitarian-Universalism which is deity optional, where love is the core value.

One interesting point of the theory of evolution is its silence on how life began. It's about how life evolved. Another is the agreement as to species classification, but the disagreement as to what biological qualities constitutes a species.

One thing scientists do is define their terms and put findings out in the open for public scrutiny. How about IDers?
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
03:01 AM on 05/31/2010
Actually, ID thrives because most people do not grasp the realities of evolution. I was trying to explain the old "what good is half and eye" to a reasonably intelligent person when I realized that he was actually envisioning an eye with half of its structures there and functioning and half not! I realized that the question he should have been asking is, "what good is an eye that works half as well?" As anyone who is visually impaired can tell him, it is a lot of good.
03:24 AM on 06/01/2010
The greatest supporter of ID on these pages has been asked if he is a creationist in an ID proponent's clothing. He has more posts than anyone in defence of ID, provides what he considers to be coherent argument in support but doesn't answer the question. Come on Lee do you believe Genesis and the fairy tale myth of creation?
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Brooklyn73
11:16 AM on 06/01/2010
Whether Genesis' Adam & Eve happened or not, it still doesn't erase the fact we humans are nothing but dirty rotten sinners.
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leebowman
03:07 PM on 06/01/2010
I do not accept a literal interpretation of the Genesis account, nor am I a Creationist. I accept intervention at key points in evolutionary progressions to cause radical species alterations by unknown, but conjectural means. My prediction for one causative means would be genetic coding alterations (directed placement or replacement of nucleotides), and of changes in the coding for HOX gene functions in the embryo process. I further predict that existing organs and/or organelles would in some (or most) cases be co opted for other functions, but by direction rather than chance.

Proposed evolutionary mechanisms have some merit, but fall short when the assumtion of purely naturalistic causation (chance and necessity) is held to. Statistical probabilitys of 'chance' occurances is hand waving. While natural selection is in fact NOT random, what selection has to select from is. Therefore, contrary to what Dawkins and others claim, NS from RM is a random process.

The claim that science can only deal with natural phenomenon is true, but 'directed' natural phenomenon can also be included as long as it's factual, and not posited as 'miraculous' (violating natural laws).
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leebowman
02:45 PM on 06/01/2010
Regarding eye evolution, if functional intermediates simply entailed a more and more deeply invaginated retina (as postulated in the many proposed models from Darwin to Nilsson), then yes, each would constitute a better functioning eye. Similarly, an equatorial native with more skin melanin would have less chance of developing melanoma, and thus have more chance of passing along the trait.

The melanin increase constitutes an adaptive modification, existant within the genome to select from, and an example of microevolution (if you accept that terminology). The proposed model for eye evolution, similar to the proposed model for giraffe neck evolution, is not likely to occur for several reasons.

What both proposals do not address are the requisite addition of multiple support mechanisms that would be needed as well. In the case of the giraffe, specialized vascular neck valves exist, as well as other venous and alterial constructs necessary for proper circulation.

"I realized that the question he should have been asking is, "what good is an eye that works half as well?" "

With eye evolution, most of the support systems are codependent, and would not be functional if evolved separately, which exceeds the ability of evolutionary mechanisms to cause them to occur. Eye evolution is highly improbable, and while proposed gradations of 'function' would offer a selective advantage, these 'functional' improvements would simply not occur.
03:38 PM on 06/01/2010
Lee, have you copied this from other written sources?
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
02:55 AM on 05/31/2010
Accepting our evolutionary beginnings requires a certain humility. For many people, that humility means humilitation, and they can't stand it.
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LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
06:59 PM on 05/30/2010
Why we have to repeat this is because there are millions of complete morons who vote for any politician who says "God" the most.
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iisguy
03:40 PM on 05/30/2010
Science and religion are completly compatable. That does not mean that the bible is true or the Koran is the definitive text, but instead - that the truth shall set you free. This is the main axiom of science and religion and in the end, there will be no difference.
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GeorgioSutton
09:22 PM on 06/06/2010
Are they reconciliable when the truths are on complete opposite sides of the spectrum?
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iisguy
03:54 AM on 06/07/2010
Yes of course.
Truth is always in harmony with truth. The notion that there is anyting to reconcile is inaccurate in this case. In your example, two sides of spectrum are just extermes of the same thing. Hot/cold, light/dark, weak/strong. In no way does science preculde religion other than to assert that you can't prove if there is a god since you cant measure it. Religion certinaly doesnt exclude science as "the truth shall set you free" so you better find out the truth - no matter what you believe - in relgion or science. In the end, truth is truth and it doesnt matter how you get there.
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Jason Abdon
02:07 AM on 05/29/2010
"There is no pie floating around in the sky."
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head...
09:07 AM on 05/29/2010
What, I can't run around saying, "The pie is falling, the pie is falling?" :)
05:25 PM on 05/28/2010
Huh?

"Gilberson"--paragraphs 1 through 3
"Ginsberg"--paragraphs 4 through .....
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Alex Wilhelm
03:50 PM on 05/31/2010
Editing mistake, please disregard.
03:40 PM on 06/01/2010
Gibberish?
02:41 AM on 05/28/2010
If we had an intelligent designer and this is what they came up with for us, then I would be mighty disappointed in the designer's intelligence.
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DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
09:47 AM on 05/28/2010
ouch. lol
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
02:56 AM on 05/31/2010
No intelligent designer would have perpetrated the human spine, and as for the mechanics of birth...
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leebowman
04:40 PM on 06/01/2010
Similarly, I take it that no intelligent designer would design a propulsion control system in an automobile that could 'lock up', causing uncontrolled acceleration, withough a 'designed in' system to override it, Toyota Prius et al.

The argument that 'no designer would do something a certain way' in flawed in several ways.

One, the point made is usually based on proposing an alternate mechanism that would work better, or last longer. The false assumption is that the physical body should function indefinitely.

Two, some points are flawed due to a lack of mechanistic logic, i.e. that your design is truly a better one. I have yet to see a detailed proposal for an improved spinal support system. Anyone care to venture there?

Three, the assumption that the 'designer' is omnicient is a religious view, but one used by Skeptics to support their logic. If they disavow an omnicient creator, why then use that premise to support their conclusion?

And finally, even if omniscient, how can one know if the designer cared one way of the other regarding longevity or a pain free existence? It's entirely possible that eartly life was intended to be challenging (predator v prey, parasite v host), rather than Utopian.
02:39 AM on 05/28/2010
Sometimes I wonder if we could be like the little guys living in the locker in the movie " Men in Black "
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rf dude
Just an average Man of Bronze
10:55 AM on 05/30/2010
" ALL HAIL 'K'. "...
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Uncle Bob
Darwin loves you.
12:57 AM on 05/28/2010
what a confusing article. I'm not sure if the author grasps what science is, let alone what ID is, let alone what the arguments are for and against NOMA.

It is pretty simple. ID isn't science, period.

Secondly, NOMA/accommodationism is arguing about *philosophy*, not whether people are capable of accepting both ideas at the same time. Of course they can. That doesn't make them suddenly without contradiction.
05:38 PM on 05/27/2010
A good question to ask intelligent design advocates is how and when the designer intervened to change the DNA. After all, we know that all changes in organisms ultimately are coded in the DNA. Therefore, if ID is true, God must be tinkering with the DNA. I find it really funny when I consider Behe, one of ID's star players accepts common descent. That's right folks, the same guy who came up with the term irreducible complexity accepts that all life on earth is related. What really gets me going is that recently an evolutionary shift that fits Behe's criteria of irreducible complexity occurred in the laboratory under controlled conditions:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14094-bacteria-make-major-evolutionary-shift-in-the-lab.html

So my question is, why is this not evidence of intelligent design? Why haven't Behe and his buddies jumped all over this proclaiming that this is evidence that God acted in the lab?
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DavidGW
06:26 PM on 05/29/2010
Michael Behe has always maintained that no one knows who the intelligent designer is. Yet, in Kitzmiller v. Dover he testified in open court, under oath, that the intellignet designer "is God". Since then I treat everything that he says as a lie. His credibiity is 0.
04:50 PM on 05/27/2010
And then there is this question:

Does it really matter? Whether there is an intelligent designer, or not an intelligent designer, the world as we observe it would be exactly the same. The very existence of this creator is irrelevant. By occam's razor, it is superfluous AND irrelevant.

If the creator is not a god or gods, than you must ask who created him/her/it/they?And if it is a god or gods, what proof do you have of its existence? And what proof do you have that it is the Christian god?

The ultimate answers to ultimate questions ultimately don't matter.
05:09 PM on 05/27/2010
Uh, maybe it's irrelevant, until you start trying to teach biology class. Then it becomes very relevant.
12:01 PM on 05/28/2010
Of course, I actually agree with you. It is important. What I was trying to say was that if there was an intelligent deisgner, it must have used evolution as the means to accomplish its ends.
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el sistema
06:09 PM on 05/27/2010
From a scholastic point of view, it becomes very relevant. What would happen to a country that adopts Intelligent Design as a conclusion for existence? You would a country full of undereducated citizens. What then would stop creationists from adopting a theocratic state? America could easily regress into a country similar to Iran.
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el sistema
06:16 PM on 05/27/2010
I love irony, but I hate it when I step in it.

*You would have
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reasonable111
10:59 PM on 05/28/2010
That is really a reach. Intelligent design and Macro evolution are not exclusive. It is easy to conceive of ID through that method. It is when atheists make the claim that all of this happened through natural selection with no intelligence behind it - now that is an issue. Biology classes- it should not come up. Perhaps philosophy class.

But to make the leap to theocracy is really asinine. it is a stupid assertion.
04:44 PM on 05/27/2010
Let us suppose (yet again) that intelligent design is true.

How do we know the designer is competent? There seems to be a lot of evidence that the design is highlhighly flawed, as any man over 45 with an intact prostate knows every morning at 3:00.

How do we know he isn't malicious? Same citation.
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LynneE
A not-so-elite liberal.
11:31 PM on 05/29/2010
Yes, I would also offer the experience of delivering a nine pound infant through a relatively small exit canal as proof that no 'intelligent designer' exists.
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
02:58 AM on 05/31/2010
Check with a woman in labor!
02:33 PM on 05/27/2010
Consider the three thousand people who die annually by choking on dinner. Very intelligently designed. I guess the almighty thought more of whales than humans--what with the separate breathing orifice and all....
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leebowman
03:14 PM on 05/27/2010
A common passageway for food, respiration and speech in primates is an efficient design. The only known cases of choking on food are with humans, who talk too much at the dinner table, me included.

Other designs would be less efficient, take up much more space, and lack clearing functions that are resident in the current design. The epiglottis blocks the trachea, and sometimes doesn't close in time. Granted, there may be other designs to prevent that, but these kinds of arguments do not verify evo processes as causative.

The complexity of bio systems far exceeds the ability of random mutations, however selected upon, to build these complex structures. Study a little eye anatomy to understand my point. These pages define eye anatomy and function pretty well.
http://webvision.med.utah.edu/index.html
03:34 PM on 05/27/2010
So now it's E.D....they make pills for that.
03:37 PM on 05/27/2010
Again, not true. While I have no doubt you choked at least once at a dinner table from trying to talk and eat at the same time, I''ve personally seen multiple people suddenly choke who weren't saying a word. Refuted.

Pontificating that "the complexity of bio systems far exceeds the ability of random mutations" leads inevitably to the question - How do you get that and how would you accurately defend that statement? No hand waving, just specifics.

You really don't want to trot out the old chestnut about the eye complexity being beyond the realm of successive adaptation.
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reasonable111
11:01 PM on 05/28/2010
And that is why we are told not to talk while we eat, and to eat throughly- we have the brain capacity to learn that , so that counters your argument. 3000 people out of 3000 million. Pretty small pct I would say. The design is just fine.