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Alison van Diggelen

Alison van Diggelen

Posted: August 29, 2010 04:30 PM

"We are not going to sit idly by and watch you dismantle our environmental achievements...which are also economic achievements," says Carl Guardino, CEO of the Silicon Valley Leadership Group, which represents over 300 of the valley's major companies (including HP, Google and IBM).

In this exclusive Fresh Dialogues interview, we examine the controversial proposal to overturn AB 32, California's landmark climate change legislation.

Here's a recap of the issue:

AB 32 is the Golden State's attempt to cap carbon emissions to 1990 levels by introducing a version of a cap-and-trade carbon tax, which would hit polluters, power plants, refineries and cement manufacturers hard.

What is Proposition 23?

Supporters call it "The California Jobs Initiative," and point to the high cost and potential job losses of implementing AB 32; but Proposition 23's main impact would be to suspend (and effectively repeal) the provisions of AB 32.

And here's how Guardino describes it:

"A veiled attempt to dismantle California's environmental achievements.

Watch the Fresh Dialogues video:


In turn, AB 32 supporters have launched a Stop Dirty Energy Prop Campaign to thwart the proposition.

Who is behind it?

Two Texas-based oil companies, Valero Energy Corporation and Tesoro Corporation, provided the initial funding to launch the Prop 23 campaign. Valero donated over $4 Million to the cause.

Guardino's argument

"This is an economic engine not a caboose and we're not going to let folks ruin the engine that continues to fuel the renewable energy, clean green economy. It's not only good for our environment - and it's critical - it's also good for our economy and jobs; and we've proved that through innovation of products, processes and what we do with our people every day in Silicon Valley."

Last month the Union of Concerned Scientists signed an open letter in support of AB 32, stating, that the measure stimulates innovation and efficiency and help the state become the global leader in technological innovation in the sector.

Who is winning?

As of today, Proposition 23 is way ahead in the (albeit unofficial) social media popularity index with over 4,500 Facebook "likes" for California Jobs Initiative compared to just under 3,000 "likes" for Stop Dirty Energy.

Although AB 32 has an impressive list of supporters, from business organization, healthcare, and the clean tech industry (obviously); Prop 23 has some deep pocketed supporters (largely from the oil industry) who aim to dominate the debate.

It seems that in light of the economic slump, the urgency of taking action to combat global warming has been lost. California is the canary in the coal mine...and the CO2 is building up fast.

Follow Fresh Dialogues on Twitter.

Check out more exclusive interviews on AB 32 and Climate Change at the Fresh Dialogues YouTube Channel.

 

Follow Alison van Diggelen on Twitter: www.twitter.com/FreshDialogues

 
 
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This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
03:01 PM on 08/31/2010
Here's some recent exposes of humongous funding of global warming denial and right wing causes by the billionaire (from coal and oil interests) Koch brothers, in order to rid themselves of taxes, corporate regulation, safety notes for the middle class like Social Security/Medicare/funding public schools, and essentially anything interfering with their will to rule ala the deMedicis of old.

www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer

www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Koch%20brothers&st=cse
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mountainweb
Conservative Commonsense
01:49 PM on 08/30/2010
Bottom line, putting a tax on power plants which will then be passed onto the taxpayers, raising the cost of living AT THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME, is total stupidity. Instead of pouring money into green energy, thereby INCREASING JOBS, this stupidity will COST JOBS. The oil/coal industries are not keeping us from moving to a more sustainable energy platform, the government and brain dead environmentalists are doing that by pushing legislation like this.

JOBS are what is needed NOW, not legislation that COSTS JOBS and does NOTHING to promote green energy....
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Oldsop
Libertarian...mostly
10:22 AM on 08/30/2010
Cap and trade will further strangle businesses in California: a state already bankrupt and with virtually immoral tax rates. How stupid does anyone have to be to want to add insult to injury to the California economy?
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mountainweb
Conservative Commonsense
01:50 PM on 08/30/2010
The state legislature has a LONG history of stupidity.....
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gsmp
What the ????
10:18 AM on 08/30/2010
The longer the oil/coal industries can keep us from moving to a more sustainable energy platform, the sooner the finite fossil fuel sources will deplete and the higher the profits will be as we scramble for the last scraps. When my father was in business in the late 60s/early 70s, gas was 32.9 CENTS per gallon! For those who are 'worried about our children's future', Think of the 10fold increase in the last few decades and imagine what our progeny will face!
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aligatorhardt
Cut on the bias
08:57 AM on 08/30/2010
I support the California attempts to improve air quality. The use of fossil fuels needs to be reduced and polluters are the ones who need to clean up their industries emissions. The substitution of renewable energy sources for dirty sources is the most direct way to solve this problem. The advantages are far more valuable than the few jobs lost in coal or oil industries, and those losses are more theoretical than real. The slow down of old industry is unavoidable because of pollution and health costs which are deferred to public expense instead of being added to the costs of continuing fossil fuel use. The use of clean energy is a money saver in the long term. The failure of the federal government to move on the energy policy reforms make California's efforts necessary to provide for the needs of their population. This state energy changes can be a model for other states to consider and can be a proving ground for the included mechanisms of change.
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FTracy3
My micro-bio is as empty as the rest of my life.
02:36 PM on 08/31/2010
The measure isn't about air quality it's about greenhouse gasses (CO2 emissions) which don't stop either way at the California border. All this measure will do is hamper California businesses, make it more expensive to live here, and have no impact on climate change as long as the rest of the world is doing whatever the hell it wants.
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aligatorhardt
Cut on the bias
06:55 PM on 08/31/2010
It is the easiest to stand around and wait for the end of the line of workers on a project, but it certainly does not get the job done if no one will start. We can show the rest how to get the job done. we can work out the possible fixes and prove the best ways to proceed. I applaud California for stepping up to the job. The Congress is crippled by vested interests, but cities and states can test ideas and propel the others to follow the best ways to solve problems.
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nirek
Proud progressive Vietnam vet. against WAR
07:29 AM on 08/30/2010
America needs to get OFF the oil and coal standard!

If we made all our electricity from solar power we could make a big cut in the oil we use.
Try reading this short story about the myths about solar power.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100825/OPINION02/100829939/

Without subsidies solar costs are a little high.
I have an array two years old. It makes 120% of the power I use! That extra 20% goes back into the grid, as it is net metering .

Please lets all try something that will help save the environment.

Nirek
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Mister Biggles
05:34 AM on 08/30/2010
What's wrong with cement?
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aligatorhardt
Cut on the bias
09:00 AM on 08/30/2010
Coal ash is used as a filler for concrete. Coal ash contains heavy metals and other toxins.
10:30 AM on 08/30/2010
Not correct. There are 2 reasons to regulate cement plants. They use coal fired kilns to create the clinker in cement. Clinker is the bonding substance in cement. In some states (like TX where I live), used tires are also used to fire kilns. I believe this is banned in CA. Clinker is derived from super-heated limestone. The clinker also releases mercury as it is separated from the limestone. Mercury is naturally occurring in limestone.
12:37 PM on 08/30/2010
From the GHG perspective a ton of cement produced in the US creates on the order of 1 tonne of CO2e to 1 ton of cement produced( less in CA .87 tonnes per ton as I recall). We consume on the order of 120 million tons a year in the US producing somewhere around 108 million tons. USGS minerals yearbook would give you exact numbers. On the pacific coast imports come mainly from asia/china. Making cement requires alot of heat = energy.

co2 emissions are about 50/50 process combustion. Process emissions are those from heating the limestone releasing carbon in the calcium carbonate which bonds with oxygen in the atmosphere. Combustion from the fuel source used to heat the process.

Of course cement is a vital commodity and will be into the future for making earthquake safe bldgs and infrastructure(particularly if we go vertical and dense). It's one of the emission points that absent some form of sequestration will have emissions forever.

Calera(CA based) and a brittish firm(novacem) are both investigating/patenting alternative cement processes using different base materials. Both look to be copying marine cements from seashells IMHO. Calera's process looks to pass energy plant flue gas through seawater/briney water(Sequestering carbon in the flue gas) creating their cement. Novacem's process sounds to work at similar temps from their press. Both are interesting developments to watch as cement is/will be an important material. Can google the names for their press.
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Richard2
11:12 PM on 08/29/2010
Australia is an example of another nation that, like the state of California, is facing a sharp rise in utility bills:

"THE chief executive of one of the country’s biggest energy retailers has warned that power prices are set to increase dramatically.

Origin Energy boss Grant King said that complying with the mandatory renewable energy target (RET) and network spending would put upward pressure on energy prices.

“That’s not of our making, or anybody other than policymakers,” Mr King told The Australian…

His comments follow both federal Resources and Energy Minister Martin Ferguson and his opposition counterpart Ian Macfarlane warning in separate interviews with this newspaper that power prices were likely to double in the next five to seven years…

Wind farms would cost between $100 and $125 per megawatt hour, compared with $30 to $40 per MWh for coal. Moreover, the intermittent nature of wind means that it would need to be backed up with big-ticket investment in gas turbine power plants.

Mr King said he suspected that policymakers “didn’t truly know the cost” of policies that had been introduced."
11:26 PM on 08/29/2010
Well, you know what they say: Necessity IS the mother of invention...
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aligatorhardt
Cut on the bias
09:04 AM on 08/30/2010
These outdated talking points against wind power are not true. Wind is less expensive than King is stating. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wind_power#Grid_management
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Richard2
01:55 PM on 08/30/2010
Here's another example, in New Mexico.

"New Mexicans are rallying to fight a 21.2 percent rate increase proposed by PNM, the largest electrical system in the state. It would be the third major increase in recent years. Previous increases raised rates for some customers by as much as 24 percent.

New Mexico electricity consumers in 2011 will have to pay almost double what they did in 2007 for electricity. David King, chairman of the New Mexico Public Regulation Commission (PRC) calls the rate increase a "hot potato," saying he's received "a flood of calls from ratepayers."

PNM’s rate increases are at least in part the result of renewable power mandates advocated by environmental activist groups and approved by state officials. In 2009 the New Mexico State Legislature unanimously passed a bill increasing the percentage of electricity required to be generated by renewable sources.

Previously the state’s electricity consumers faced a mandate to purchase 6 percent of their power from renewable sources by 2011 and 10 percent by 2015. The 2009 law raised the renewable power mandate to 10 percent by 2011 and 15 percent by 2015."
11:03 PM on 08/29/2010
Nevada and Arizona will appreciate all of the businesses that will move there...
11:31 PM on 08/29/2010
I say do it. It has to be done, sooner or later, and the longer we take the more painful it's going to be. Oil and coal, after all, are finite resources, and they're rapidly running out.

And if any businesses do decide to leave, let them deal with the consequences. they'll have to face the option again later if they do.
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aligatorhardt
Cut on the bias
09:06 AM on 08/30/2010
That is a hollow threat. Power companies will not leave the 8 th largest economy in the world.
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Idean Salehyan
Associate Professor of Political Science, Universi
10:12 PM on 08/29/2010
More proof of the phony populism of the CA ballot initiative process.
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Richard2
11:26 PM on 08/29/2010
Millions of people around the world wish that their own countries had a ballot initiative process similar to that in California. If AB32 isn't repealed this November, it is likely that it will be repealed in a few years, after the public has been forced to pay artifically inflated utility bills.

Given the opportunity, the government of France decided not to impliment Cap and Trade. Neither did the U.S.
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Idean Salehyan
Associate Professor of Political Science, Universi
09:56 AM on 08/30/2010
My point was just that the CA ballot initiative process was intended to bring democracy "closer to the people." However, over the last decade or so, we have seen very powerful companies buy influence over the process. Most initiatives now are bankrolled by wealthy interests, they are not "grass roots" democracy.
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11:19 AM on 08/30/2010
13 posts Sunday,.all denying global warming and its impacts. Richard2's mini-vacay must've cut into his quota.

www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Richard2?action=comments
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Richard2
07:42 PM on 08/29/2010
The issue is the impact on the utility bills of every resident of California and every business and government unit in California. If wind or solar energy costs six times as much as cheap coal or natural gas, then placing manditory requirements that utilities shut down coal or natural gas plants and replace them with wind or solar energy will necessarily raise everyone's monthly utility bill. It will also raise the cost of running a supermarket, which will impact food prices.

Great Britain passed a similar law to California's. However, the new coalition government in London has now put on hold actually implimenting the law, as there is now the realization that the "clean" energy will be very expensive, and there may be energy shortages during the winter weather season, when the wind in England is not reliable.

California's law will raise the cost of energy to everyone in California, including businesses that may simply move across our state line to Arizona, Nevada or Oregon, to capture a lower cost of energy for running the businesses.
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lbsaltzman
Permaculture and Sustainability
08:28 PM on 08/29/2010
The problem with your analysis is the cost of not making the change is left out. It would be as if Franklin Roosevelt said that we can't afford to fight World War II because it will be too expensive. I believe the law will generate more jobs and bring more prosperity, but even if I am wrong, not dealing with global warming will destroy civilization.
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Richard2
08:56 PM on 08/29/2010
The industrial revolution has increased the amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere by man. However, long term tide station data from around the world indicates that the sea level is rising at the same low rate that it was just before the industrial revolution, and at a rate lower than the average for the past 10,000 years. There is no signal in the sea level data to indicate any negative impact by CO2. At the same time, CO2 is a plant fertilizer that helps vegetation grow faster and larger. It isn't clear what "cost" there is to mankind's release of more CO2, just as it isn't clear how large the "benefit" is to this release of CO2.
07:26 PM on 08/29/2010
The California Jobs Initiative (CJI) is an oil corporation farce and fraud. There is no connection, whatsoever, between greenhouse gas emission reduction and the loss of jobs. This notion is an insult to the intelligence of the people of California. In fact, there is job growth in the clean, renewable energy industry. Chevron employs 65.000 worldwide and CJI is not going tp change this. The only jobs created by the oil industry are clean-up jobs after oil spills and deep water, blow-outs and pump-handler jobs. CJI will make fantastic profits for the oil industry, increase air pollution, especially in communities around their refineries, and there will not be lower gas prices. Both Valero and Tesoro are super Enrons. Since when did oil companies start to show any concern for the unemployed and their families?
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2warvet
I have nitrogen narcosis, what's your excuse?
03:38 AM on 08/30/2010
"There is no connection, whatsoever, between greenhouse gas emission reduction and the loss of jobs."

Really? You should check out Spain's economy and what happened when they started down the road of "green jobs". It was a 2 for 1 job loss to creation ratio (yes that is 2 jobs lost for every green job created).
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aligatorhardt
Cut on the bias
09:10 AM on 08/30/2010
This charge is completely unbelievable. Is there a source for these job numbers?
10:05 AM on 08/30/2010
Increasing air pollution is not going to increase the number of jobs.