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Andrew Feldstein

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The Problem Of Same Sex Divorce

Posted: 07/13/11 12:45 PM ET

With New York State's recent legalization of gay marriage, it is a good time to discuss another pressing issue; that is the problem of same sex divorce. Many same sex couples travel to states which have legalized same sex marriage or to a Canadian province in order to get married. These couples will face a number of difficulties if their marriage breaks down, and it is an issue that not many groups are focused on at this juncture. The need for same sex divorce is becoming a major problem and further emphasizes the need for marital equality through the United States.

A Limping Marriage

This difficulty stems from a phenomenon known as limping marriages. A limping marriage occurs when a couple becomes validly married in one jurisdiction which has no gender requirements under the Marriage Act, and then goes to another jurisdiction which does not recognize their marriage. They are married in one jurisdiction, and not in another; this is a limping marriage. A same-sex couple who travels to one jurisdiction and gets married is legally married in that jurisdiction but gains none of the benefits or corresponding responsibilities a married couple would have in their home state. One of the most important parts of a marriage that a same-sex couple does not receive in their home state is the ability to get a divorce.

The Divorce Problem

While it may sound counter-intuitive, divorce is one of the most important aspects of marriage. Normally, upon the break down of a marriage, the couple would divorce and follow their jurisdiction's system for dividing up assets and establishing custody and support. However, for same-sex couples in jurisdictions which do not recognize their marriage they are faced with the difficult prospect of trying to divide a life built together without the tools to fairly distribute the pieces of that life. Spouses are left without the necessary protection to obtain the support they need to transition into a new life, and children do not have the protection of the courts to ensure that custody arrangements are in their best interest. While same-sex couples have developed a number of alternative options; these are legally complicated and difficult to implement. Perhaps most distressingly, they require very close cooperation between the parties, which is impossible when the spouses are acrimonious or abusive.

The Need for Reform

Ultimately, the only way to address this problem is for the United States to finally and unequivocally recognize marital equality. Many jurisdictions in the United States expect same sex couples to return to the jurisdiction in which they were married in order to become divorced. This is not as simple as it sounds; in Ontario, Canada, the Divorce Act requires at least one of the individuals to be a resident in the province. Becoming a resident would require that person to stay in the province for a year; leaving their home, career, and life behind. Further, due to Canadian visa requirements; it would be unlikely that they could legally work during that time. This is clearly, not an option for most people. Some individuals state that Ontario needs to do more to warn same-sex couples who marry in the province about the consequences of their limping marriage. It is difficult to believe this will be very effective. Relatively few individuals willing to travel to another jurisdiction in order to enter into a valid marriage are likely to believe that their marriage will eventually break down and they will need a divorce.

 

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With New York State's recent legalization of gay marriage, it is a good time to discuss another pressing issue; that is the problem of same sex divorce. Many same sex couples travel to states which h...
With New York State's recent legalization of gay marriage, it is a good time to discuss another pressing issue; that is the problem of same sex divorce. Many same sex couples travel to states which h...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OS2Guy
I'm not gay but my husband is.
06:06 PM on 07/14/2011
Speaking as one-half of a legally married California same-sex couple: People, gay or straight, must want marriage and should never enter into such a union "just because". My husband had been in a straight marriage for eight years, divorced, and met me a year later. We were friends first, then best friends and inseparable friends before I ever confessed my feelings for him. He went into a hetero panic and we didn't speak for three days. I thought the friendship/relationship was over - and then the man came to his senses and knocked at the door. "If we're going to do this, I want it all - commitment and marriage."

I wouldn't give up what we have together for anything. I love him too much and he (and now our son) make my life the happiest it has ever been. You HAVE to want marriage and the benefits that comes with it.
08:46 AM on 07/14/2011
DISAGREE! There is another way that no one wants to talk about...NO MARRIAGE "benefits" FOR ANYONE RECOGNIZED BY GOVERNMENT. Separation of church and state!

Look, if you believe in "one man, one woman" then fine, keep it in your church. Just don't expect the government to give you benefits as it will discriminate against others. If you're a hetero/homo couple that isn't religious, just have a lawyer draft up any contract you want..."We, the signed, agree to stay committed to each other for life...if not we will divide the assets as such..." whatever you want. Let's get the government out of this promoting a "best" lifestyle business. There is NO BEST lifestyle in the eyes of the government (or at least there should NOT be). In the eyes of some churches, yes, you can believe what you want like hetero couples are the best and only lifestyle. Freedom of religion is guaranteed as long as you don't harm others. But don't expect the rest of us (or government) who don't believe in your religion to accept your logic. Maybe 2 women and 3 men want to all get married. Hey, whatever works for you.
In the end, the easiest solution is to get government out all together. NO BENEFITS for ANYONE. If you want a legal contract that commits you to life with another person (or group of people) because you think that makes your commitment stronger, then draft up a standard "lifetime union" contract.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
reevee
08:38 PM on 07/13/2011
"Ultimately, the only way to address this problem is for the United States to finally and unequivocally recognize marital equality"

Divorce is a possible reality in any marriage regardless gender. The author is just pointing out some extra difficulties that same sex couples face and might not be aware of it. Needless to say, I don't think these facts will prevent anyone from getting married in Canada or elsewhere, and besides is a great deal of helpful information to know in any case.
04:00 PM on 07/13/2011
When a gay or lesbian couple gets divorced, who gets all of the property and who gets all of the debt?
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03:34 PM on 07/13/2011
Even simpler solution...stop trying to force a change that never should've happened, return marriage to the people it belongs to, heterosexual couples...and the problem fixes itself.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
r henry
I live between concrete walls
10:50 PM on 07/13/2011
The problem is just sent back into the closet, not fixed. How about you all realize that you can still have your fancy, Jesus sanctioned marriages and we can have the legally binding contract that we are asking for. This has nothing to do with your marriage so it should be none of your concern. It's really very simple. The only real problem is from the opposition.
09:09 AM on 07/14/2011
Government should not recognize ANY union/marriage and then all will be equal in the eyes of the government. The church, under freedom of religion, can continue to practice its prejudices providing they do not harm other people, but the government should not "recognize" their marriages. This includes tax breaks, hospital visitation, etc. All marriage would be then, would be a religious practice that provided no extra federal or state benefits or any other benefits outside of the church walls. Problem solved. Separation of church and state maintained.

For those non-religious types that want some type of "lifetime contract" with another person (any sex) or number of people (not just couples, which would also be discriminatory), then they go find any lawyer to draft up any kind of contract they want that would legally bind them to stay committed to each other, similar to marriage law today. Nothing is stopping them from doing so and the lawyers would love the business.

So I agree with you in a lot of ways. Keep government out of recognzing a "best lifestyle" and let consenting adults choose the lifestyle for them. If they want lawyers to get involved and contracts to be signed because they think it makes their union stronger, so be it. But the government stays out of it. And only the courts get involved if there someone violates the contract, just like any legal issue.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
dgaisior08
History/English Student navigating the crazies
01:33 AM on 07/14/2011
Marriage has never belonged to just one person or group of people. It's changed and evolved throughout time.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lisalawless
Ph.D. Sexual Health / CEO Holistic Wisdom, Inc.
03:29 PM on 07/13/2011
The gay and lesbian community should be afforded the same legal rights as heterosexuals. This includes the right to marry and divorce. Anything less is a violation of civil rights.

I wrote an article on the civil rights that legal gay marriage provides; at the bottom of the article I list all of the rights that are denied to gays and lesbians when they are not allowed to legally marry. In turn, it only makes sense that they should also be able to dissolve them when getting divorced.

Thus the problem is not divorce, the problem is that they are not allowed to marry in all 50 states-

http://www.holisticwisdom.com/homosexual-gay-marriage.htm
10:10 PM on 07/13/2011
It's not a violation of civil rights. Gays have the same right to marry as the rest of us do, and they have to meet the same criteria that the rest of us do.
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StevenKeirstead
Photographer and Biologist who happens to be gay.
10:35 PM on 07/13/2011
All 50 states have slightly different marriage eligibility criteria. In some states it is legal to marry a cousin, in others 16 year olds can marry. In Vermont, Connecticut, Iowa, New Hampshire, Massachusetts and Washington DC, gay couples and lesbian couples are legally marrying now. New York joins that group in less than a couple weeks. Tens of thousands of same sex couples were legally married in California before Prop 8. Several foreign countries including Canada and Spain also have legal same sex marriage. So far, this expansion of marriage criteria has not been a problem except in the fevered imaginations of some traditionalists.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
r henry
I live between concrete walls
10:53 PM on 07/13/2011
And if gay marriage were legal, we would still have the same rights to marry as you do. There is nothing that says the two men being married have to be gay. So, when all is said and done, you can marry another man, too! See? Still equal!

But I think we both know it simply doesn't work that way. What you're suggesting is that, if I want to marry, I should find a woman and lie to her, lead her to believe we will be happy and satisfied together and then marry me. Maybe, if I really want to cause some trouble, we can have children together. Does this really seem like the kind of "family value" you want to encourage? Marriages built on lies where one partner doesn't even love or feel attraction to the other?

Not good.
Billybladerunner
Is this thing on....
02:12 AM on 07/14/2011
The gay and lesbian community should be afforded the same legal rights as heterosexual­s.

in a civil union ...not a Marriage Union....If society wants to allow it ....render unto Caesar what is Caesar's ...Render unto God what is Gods.... Don't call it marriage.....
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angelcakesinc
Silence is death
12:23 AM on 07/15/2011
Psst... marriage isn't, wasn't, and will never be, 'god's.' The legally recognized type of marriage in this country is SECULAR. That means that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans, Atheists, and any other sort of religious (or non religious) groups can get THE SAME MARRIAGE. The religious rituals involved in the celebration of the marriage are merely incidental and not required for the legitimacy of the marriage in the eyes of the law. Sorry, but there's no way you can win that argument.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Skeptical Cicada
03:23 PM on 07/13/2011
Feldstein is withholding some information here as a way to promote the interests of the divorce industry, of which he is a part.

In states that do not permit same-sex marriage, gay couples can dissolve their marriages by seeking and receiving judicial annulments or declarations of nullity in lieu of a divorce. Those judgments are entitled to constitutionally mandated recognition everywhere, including in states that allow same-sex marriage. While those judgments do not deal with disputes over dividing their assets--meaning the couples themselves will have to voluntarily resolve those disputes--the couples will not be trapped in a marriage. The marriage itself can be dissolved.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
r henry
I live between concrete walls
10:54 PM on 07/13/2011
He is not talking about the marriage. He is talking about the assets and also the support that one partner may need in order to regain financial footing in life. If one of them was a stay at home parent or something like that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fran Jaime
Yo Soy 132!
12:16 AM on 07/14/2011
There's also custody to consider if they have adopted a child or one is the biological parent but the other is not. This really important.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kevinbr38
Give Me A Pig Foot....
03:23 PM on 07/13/2011
How nice..The first Gay couple hasn't tied the knot yet in New York and this guy is already talking about divorce.
The fact of the matter is that many, (if not most) Gay couples who are going to do this have been in their committed relationships for years.
My partner and I are have been together for 20 plus years. We are legally married in his home country, The Netherlands, and will be doing the same in my, our home state New York in the fall.
To quote a line from Funny Girl..[Don't Rain on My [our] Parade.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
r henry
I live between concrete walls
10:55 PM on 07/13/2011
But divorce is a reality and it is something that should be considered before all of these marriages take place.
03:10 PM on 07/13/2011
Sadly, Love is a incredibly gift, indeed. Guess what ? Five words for you: Marriage is not for everyone.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kenhamlett
03:40 PM on 07/13/2011
Perhaps it is not for everyone. But, it should be available to everyone. To reserve it for one group of people and not allow others the option is simple discrimination.
10:12 PM on 07/13/2011
You simply have to meet the criteria for marriage.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Flip75
What's wrong with my micro-bio?
03:51 PM on 07/13/2011
Exactly: it is not for people like Newt Gingrich, Britney Spears, Arnold Schwarzenegger, John Edwards, John Ensign, Hugh Hefner....need I go on?
02:58 PM on 07/13/2011
oh, and all this time, i thought 

the biggest problem with gay marriage was when both grooms wanted to wear the same wedding dress
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jenna T
you can get cream for that
03:18 PM on 07/13/2011
I spilled my coffee everywhere when I read this, and now I've stained MY dress !

; )
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
r henry
I live between concrete walls
05:34 PM on 07/13/2011
I plan on wearing a suit, thank you.
07:14 AM on 07/14/2011
and i'm sure both you and your bride will very handsome, mam
02:53 PM on 07/13/2011
There will be much less divorce in gay marriage. Higher percentage don't have kids, which makes it a thousand times easier.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
r henry
I live between concrete walls
10:57 PM on 07/13/2011
I think money is the leading cause. I could be wrong, but I think it's more than kids would be.
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TBera12
Happy Pagan
02:34 PM on 07/13/2011
The problem is not "same-sex divorce." The problem is marriage itself. Very few find a good long-term relationship, and they end up paying for it, straight or gay. Others may continue a long-term relationship because it would cost them dearly to terminate it--but what a hell that must be. Other than the equality of rights and benefits, I don't know why we should want marriage. Once a relationship becomes a "have to" thing, it quickly goes stale, and there are very few that make it past that point into a really enduring love for one another.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
binxterdoodles
Who will save the environment from the hippies?
02:22 PM on 07/13/2011
Just live in the states where the marriage is recognized.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
r henry
I live between concrete walls
10:58 PM on 07/13/2011
And what if your sick mother lives in one where it is not and you must move there to care for her? What if you are offered the job of a lifetime in a state that does not recognize it? Just a few years ago, no state allowed it. So why should we fight for only a handful when everyone should have it?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
binxterdoodles
Who will save the environment from the hippies?
10:46 AM on 07/14/2011
Based on the current laws the solution is to live in a state that recognizes the marriage. It's a choice gay couples must make.
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02:18 PM on 07/13/2011
Why get a divorce? When you're in a state that doesn't recognize your marriage you have the benefit of just moving to another house and starting over. No lawyers, no alimony, no nothing except a fresh start. It's every straight mans dream.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Flip75
What's wrong with my micro-bio?
03:52 PM on 07/13/2011
Well, your comment is incredibly insulting to straight men who have a sense of responsibility. More to the point, though, it's still not that simple - that couple is still a joint entity in the state where they were married, and that would need to be dissolved legally.
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12:17 PM on 07/14/2011
Or not. I imagine in NY where couples are responsible for each others debt a dishonest partner runs up a credit card bill then takes off to a state where gay marriage isn't recognized. Nothing could be done to that person. It would be legal theft. The person leaving would just never be able to set foot in NY again, but that's not a great loss.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
r henry
I live between concrete walls
05:35 PM on 07/13/2011
You missed the point of the article. This is exactly what you'd have to do which leaves things open to not being very fair for one or both parties. Things like custody and support are left for the couple to battle out with no arbitration. Trust me, it can get ugly. I'm going through it myself as we speak.
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08:58 AM on 07/14/2011
The government needs to but out of the marriage business and let people define their own marriage partnerships the same way a business partnership is developed. Then the government can treat everyone as equals if they are married or not, straight or gay.
01:41 PM on 07/14/2011
Thank you Dana1982! There are two solutions to this problem:
1. Give everyone all the same government benefits as current hetero couples (religious or non-religious couples) have
2. Remove those current benefits that government provides to only hetero couples.

Both offer an equal end state for all couples. The one that gay marriage proponents advocate is #1 when I think the best approach is #2. #1 has many problems including where do you stop? Why can only TWO people get married? Why not more? The government would still be discriminating. In addition, single people are discriminated against because they don't get the same tax breaks and other benefits. It goes on and on. Going with option #2 makes us all equal again. And if you want to draft a legal contract up with someone else, go for it. It can include arbitration and anything else you want it to include. The government stays out of it.
So what gay marriage proponents should be fighting for is removal of government benefits from hetero couples because it is discriminatory (and it is) instead of trying to get the same benefits that were illegally given in the first place. And the reason they argue for Option #1 and not Option #2 is because Option #1 gives them more money/rights due to government benefits. "Hey, if they get a handout, I want one too!" instead of "Hey, hetero couples are getting a handout they shouldn't be getting so stop giving them one!"
02:10 PM on 07/13/2011
Please Read : LET LOVE OPEN YOU UP......and the rest is history