- BIG NEWS:
- Glenn Beck
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- ABC
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- CBS
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- Oprah
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Modern presidential campaigns don't just work the refs. They obsess over the media.
Gov. Sarah Palin can't seem to finish a rally without riffing on her (rare) interactions with the "mainstream media." Since the conventions, the Obama campaign has consistently hammered reporters for how they cover McCain's falsehoods. The styles are different, but the target and goals are the same.
Lately, McCain attack dog Steve Schmidt has been blasting entire news organizations for being "in the tank" for Obama -- the standard Shoot The Messenger ploy.
Obama spokesman Hari Sevugan, on the other hand, has nominated himself as a roving fact checker for thinly sourced GOP attacks. On Monday morning, he released an "Obama-Biden memo" casting the Ayers smear as a fundamental test for how the media covers lies.
The message from Obama to the reporters traveling with him is a reverse George Costanza: "It's not me, it's you."
"Notwithstanding the facts, we fully expect an increasingly frustrated and desperate McCain campaign to continue to lie in attacking Senator Obama," reads the memo to the reporters. "However, the question remains - will McCain and his allies be challenged by the press on their lies or will they be allowed to propagate them with impunity" (emphasis added).
See, it's not about Obama at all, it's about whether the media does their job. The memo ends with "a list of the most common lies the McCain campaign tells about Ayers and the actual facts that prove them false."
Obama's aides are right on this one. There is no "issue" or "question" about Ayers and Obama.
Palin was lying when she said Ayers and Obama palled around. Major investigative reports found nothing here, so when reporters still cover a casual acquaintanceship with lurid overtones of guilt by association, they don't just spread the politics of neo-McCarthyism, they empower it.
Tom Brokaw got in that mud yesterday. Apparently, he could not stomach the farce that Ayers is a substantive issue in the presidential campaign, so he took the "strategic" cop-out, asking whether Obama was making a political error by not "get[ing] at" the topic earlier and describing the Ayers attacks as "below the radar."
I don't know what radar Brokaw is using, but Ayers was a huge issue in the primary. Obama even "got at" it during a nationally televised debate. Slicing through the absurd charge that he is connected to Ayers' checkered past, Obama noted that he was a child during Ayers' criminal period.
By turning this tawdry topic into armchair quarterbacking for the Democratic ticket -- "We know this is bull, but is Obama rebutting it adroitly?" -- Brokaw unintentionally revealed the irresponsible vapidity of such questions.
It's no wonder the Obama campaign is hammering the media this week. You can almost see the Illinois senator parrying one of these questions when Brokaw moderates Tuesday's debate. "It's not me, Tom, it's you."
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From The Washington Independent.
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@luvangelHussein330
}}}}}}}}} Whayt are you asking for...
Obama has not stated whether he knew Ayers was a terrorist when he accepted the social invitations and the invitation to sit on the board..
This is the important question that the average undecided voter wants answered.
Until Obama plainly, pointedly and clearly answers that question, this issue will dog him...
I really can't make it any plainer than that.
Look, don't get me wrong.. I am an Obama supporter.. But I am not one of those fanatics who believes that Obama can walk on water and do no wrong. I disagree with Obama on many things, just as I disagree with Bush on many things.
If Obama were to stand up and say, "Yes, I know of Ayer's terrorism background. But I choose to accept those invitation because I felt it would serve the greater good" or something like that, then I (and probably many undecideds) would be satisfied. I would disagree with Obama on that issue as well, but at least I would know he had the courage to stand up, state his opinion and be done with it.
That is what he was like during the primary and that is what attracted me to Obama in the first place.
CONT
His sat on a board in which Ayers was a member, a charitable education reform board.
Actually, it was several boards and several social functions..
But, that's not the question..
Did Obama do these things KNOWING that Ayers was a terrorist?
THAT is the question that has yet to be answered.
The follow up to that, assuming the answer is YES, is WHY did Obama choose to associate and socialize with a terrorist..
As I said before, change "AYERS" to "BIN LADEN" and you'll see why Joe Q Public may be concerned about this and that is why Obama needs to address it fully and completely..
Michale...
I think I agree with you, Ari, but you worded it kind of weird:
"The styles are different, but the target and goals are the same."
The targets and goals are not the same. Palin's target is Obama and her goal is to discredit the media and put them on the defensive so that people are predisposed not to believe the media. You can tell it's their game because they make their accusations general and before the offense.
Obama's target is not Palin per se, but her dishonest statements. His campaign doesn't discredit the media in a general sense but for specific instances of journalistic negligence.
Obama would like to run on the issues and the facts. When Palin makes untrue personal attacks and the media does not poke holes in it, he is forced to address it himself. He's just saying "do your job so I can do mine."
She's saying, "let me make it harder for you to do your job so I can make it easier for me to do mine."
"Brokaw unintentionally revealed the irresponsible vapidity of such questions."
Dear Ari,
There was nothing unintentional about Brokaw's revelation here. He fully intended to inject this irresponsible vapidity into the political discourse. Either Tom Brokaw is losing it, or he wants to take some of us as fools. Where was he during the primaries? Ayers was brought up in the Clinton debates, which I am sure he commented on as an analyst, following the debate. Under the radar? He knows the score.
He is not fooling anyone here. He is in the tank for John McCain, and he is having a difficult time hiding it. Moveon.Org called him out just the other day for trying to push an old poll, attributing good numbers to John McCain.
We will be watching Brokaw tomorrow. We know he is the liaison between NBC and John McCain camp. But he better be fair. We are on to you, Tom.
Talk about guilt by association: Todd Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party for several years. Sarah Palin spoke at their national convention. The founder of the AIP stated : " The fires of hell are like frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. "
Jeremiah Wright in the extreme.
Don't laugh, this kind of smear has worked before, and it even has a name: McCarthyism.
When Eisenhower was POTUS, "tail-gunner" Joe smeared everybody, including Eisenhower's wartime boss, Gen. George C. Marshall. The smears worked so well that it took two years to defang Joe, because even Ike was afraid of him.
In this case, the smears are clearly racist (there really are no terrorists in Obama's Chicago neighborhood, but there are a lot of blacks in Chicago).
Will the smears work? Probably not, because Obama is already running 5% behind his party, and is winning anyway. The racists have already made up their minds, and everyone else is a lot more worried about his job than he is about color.
This is going to get ugly. Let's not let up, people, just because Obama is up in the polls. We need to knock these slimeballs back into the ponds they crawled from. Forever.
Get out there and persuade an independent. Donate money. Fight them on the internet, on 'neutral' websites. Do what you can.
That is one way to go about it..
Or, Senator Obama could go about it the EASY way with full disclosure as to the relationship between him and Ayers..
Michale.....
Obama has disclosed the relationship. But that is not the entirely the point. Do you really think Obama advocates violence as a way of making change in this country? Do you think Obama as president would put a radical like that in his cabinet? I don't and therefore I find this flimsy connection between Obama and Ayers ( who is now a college professor) totally irrelevant. However I do think John McCain would put someone like Phil Gramm in a cabinet position and that is something I find frightening
So now that we're into guilt by association (they live in the same neighborhood), how about guilt by activity?
John McCain was a maverick pilot. He was such a maverick, in fact, that he smashed two planes (worth $10 million each), and severely damaged a third by flying into power lines. He would have been grounded after the first crash, but his father was an Admiral.
Now he wants to smash the whole country.
Whayt are you asking for...if you would keep up as well as read the article then you would know that Obama has given his full disclosure of his relationship with ayers....weather or not your going to take the suspicious blinders off is another. Obama has been saying the same thng till he was near blue in the face numerous media outlets have wasted time investigating it and came to the same conclusion...what more eles are you asking for. Why is Obama all of a sudden on trial for some passive relationship mean while mccain goes on radio shows with democracy terrorist like G. Gordon Liddy and no one says a thing...fact check that while your at it look into moosbuger barbie's relevent involvment in the AIP
Well if (if not done already) on his website and have youtube clips so if the opposition keeps repeating the same lies over and over (per Cheney so folks will think it's true) he can just see 'see the website under FAQ's and see my you tube clip, I'm not gonna repeat the same response over and over for you clueless media, do your job!!!! I'll spend my time on more substantive stuff.
Michale,
Your "positions" have been debunked!
BTW: Are you REALLY comparing a University Professor to a MASS MURDERER?!? I can't believe your hatred has blinded you to this degree. Please surrender your drivers license (if you live in CA) because your depth perception is shot..
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Your "positions" have been debunked!
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And what "position" would that be??
My "position" is that Senator Obama needs to come clean regarding his contacts with Ayers. Obama needs to fully disclose what he knew and did not know..
How has that "position" been debunked???
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BTW: Are you REALLY comparing a University Professor to a MASS MURDERER?!?
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A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist... I don't differentiate between "nice" terrorists and "mean" terrorists...
Michale.....
He has come clean. He sat on a board with the man and attended board functions where this man also attended.
That is it.
Some find the fact that he lived 1/2 mile away from a Ayres, who 40 years ago was a radical activist, and now is a college professor, sinister; but have no problem with the other hundreds of people living within that radius.
That is like saying because you live in an apartment building with a child molester means that you approve and participate in those activities. It is a stupid argument.
Why would a professing American-loving patriot (Obama) choose to associate with an avowed anarchist (Ayers) and a anti-American vitriolic pastor (Wright) unless he has deep seated anti-American sentiments himself?
That statement would have some logic to it - IF these were Obama ONLY associations. THEY ARE NOT - the list of people Obama knows, works with and who work for him and support him, etc. etc. are many, many more than these 2 people. If his 'association' with Ayers and Wright is important, so is his association with the vast number of patriotic Americans - many of whom are veterans who actually fought for this country!
Well said, logical and truth. Unfortunately, when you deal with sycophants of the Failure Party, logic and truth have no effect.
You're a ridiculous loon. By this logic, if anyone you know is a criminal, you, WayneWorld, are a criminal.
Can I lock you up now?
I'm sorry, I'm confused. How can Obama be in the tank for a loonytoons Christian pastor when everybody knows he's a radical Muslim?
I'm being sarcastic.
But BTW, McCain signed a confession for the Viet Cong. I guess that makes _him_ anti-American, especially since he chose a secessionist as his VP.
In the following Rolling Stone article, a fellow Hanoi Hilton resident comes forward and talks about John McCain. Very few have done it. Everyone should read this and pass along the link in everything you write, everywhere!
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain
I tell you what.. I will spring for an airline ticket, (from my expansive SS Disability of 778.00 / month), for you to go to Chicago and call Rev Wright "an anti-American vitriolic pastor" TO HIS FACE.
However, I WILL NOT be responsible for your medical attention after the retired US Marine gets done with you. He may be a man of the cloth, but I've NEVER heard him say he proscribes to Ghandi's theories.
I'd venture to say Rev Wright, Sgt. US Marines, Ret, has earned more of a RIGHT to speak out about HIS country's ills than YOU have. I say this because I have many lifelong friendships with people who have risked their life for our country - not ONE of them believes Rev Wright ever said anything wrong.
This story basically deals with guilt by association, the association being "living in the same neighborhood as" (and maybe "serving on a charitable board with"). Now, I'm sure that somewhere in one of the 7 or 8 neighborhoods where John McCain owns a home, there probably lives a convicted pedophile or two. Does that mean, that we can freely accuse, by the same reasoning they are using with Ayers, that John McCain is palling around with pedophiles?!
Along the same lines, Wasilla is supposedly the "meth capital of Alaska". Now, Wasilla is so small that it is practically one big neighborhood, so can we also deduce that Sarah Palin is palling around with meth dealers?!
The logic of the smears on the right, and the unwillingness of the MSM to challenge their logic is downright befuddling.
That's right! It's increasingly become the job of the blogs and services on the internet to 'fact-check'. The MSM seems to think that they cannot report on one set of lies until they find another 'equal' set of lies in the other campaign.
The Ayers' thing is so nothing - there is no 'there' there. If Obama has to comment, then all the people who live in Ayers' neighborhood (in NYC and Chicago), all the people who sit in his classes and on the boards of the organization he supports will have to 'comment' on their association with this man. The MSM does have a job and their job is to say - THIS IS A DISTRACTION! William Ayers' action were done in response to an unjust war which the young people at the time (me included) thought it was their DUTY to stop. And since then, William Ayers has tried to work to better the situation of poor people by working in the community (dare I say it, as a community organizer). Since Barack Obama was in the same 'line of work' and lived in the same neighborhood, it is not unusual that their paths' should cross.
What I wish is that Barack Obama come out and tell the truth about William Ayers and say that it is really, really, UNFAIR that people who know nothing about what happened are disparaging this man who they don't know anything about!
If Democrats had the balls that Republicans do, they would not run away from this charge, but would "double down" and defend Bill Ayers, putting lie to the very idea that there is ANYTHING to be ashamed about in associating with him.
Bill Ayers is a patriotic American. Why will no one say that???
Thank-you - that's what I was trying to say above. But you said it simply and much better.
I wish that the Democrats (and Barack) would say just that! I wonder if the American people would be able to understand it - or do you think the Hannity/Limbaugh/O'Reilly crowd would take it all out of context and yell - "Told you so, told you so!"
Do you think any of these people even know who William Ayers is and what he did and more important, WHY he did it!
I am very certain they would try to use honest statement like this against us.
But that's where the courage part comes in. George Bush wasn't afraid to pump additional troops into Iraq after the American people said, loud and clear, that they wanted the opposite. Bill Ayers was not afraid to act according to the dictates of his conscience even though it was against the law.
But Democrats are afraid of their shadows.
Being 51 years old raised in New York, I know who Bill Ayers is. I know who the Weather Underground are. It does not take a rocket scientist to know why he did it.
But for a legal technicality I suspected he would still be in prison where, frankly, this type of scum belongs. Unless you consider destroying property and lives is a patriotic form of anti-war protest.
To support this man you must agree that violent overthrow of the US government is acceptable. That is just scratching the surface why no Democrat would consider supporting this treasonous bast**d. Unless, of course, you're Barack "the One" Obama. Despite evidence to the contrary, Obama does not walk on water and his sh*t does, indeed, stink.
Why can you all not connect the dots? Ayers, Rezco (sp?), Wright, Fleiger. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, etc. it's a freakin' duck. Is it just that Obama is a magnet for these types of individuals? Or are they magnets for him? For just once in your life quit making excuses, quit listening to "spin", and THINK. There must be some reason Obama looks like a hub to all these spokes.
I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation for this "coincidence". Seriously.
HEADLINES : OBAMA DEFENDS TERRORISTS! - nuff said. If Obama has no ties to this guy, why should he defend him? Obama needs to use this to appeal to the good in people and talk about forgiveness. Who can't relate to being forgiven for the most horrific thing they've done? I remember reading a post on Dkos where someone talked about how they were impressed that Obama forgave Robert Byrd - former KKK member - his past sins.
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Slicing through the absurd charge that he is connected to Ayers' checkered past, Obama noted that he was a child during Ayers' criminal period.
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Completely and utterly irrelevant..
The issue is not what the child Obama did or did not do in relation to Ayers and his terrorist activities.
The issue is why the ADULT Obama decided to work with the unrepentant terrorist that is Ayers...
Did the ADULT Obama not know about Ayers and his past terrorist activities?? Did the ADULT Obama know, but not care??
These are legitimate questions that Obama needs to address. Has he done so?? Apparently not very well, since I haven't heard about anything of that.
And, with all appropriate modesty, if *I* haven't Obama addressing these questions, then you can bet that Joe Q Public AKA Average & Undecided Voter has not heard Obama addressing these questions either.
Michale....
Uh, the articles written about this topic conclude that the two are not close. And many, MANY articles have been written about this topic. What about that isn't good enough for you?
Sen. Obama *has* addressed this issue. He addressed it during the primary. If you haven't "heard about anything of that", it's because you're either not paying attention or lying.
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Uh, the articles written about this topic conclude that the two are not close. And many, MANY articles have been written about this topic. What about that isn't good enough for you?
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I don't care about whether or not they were close... That is completely irrelevant...
The question is, did Obama KNOW he was working with and socializing with a terrorist..
YES or NO...
It's an easy question to answer. The fact that Obama (and ya'all) dance around it makes me wonder...
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Sen. Obama *has* addressed this issue. He addressed it during the primary. If you haven't "heard about anything of that", it's because you're either not paying attention or lying.
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He has not addressed the fundamental question. He dances around the main issue constantly, as do ya'all...
Did Obama know that Ayers was a terrorist when he choose to attend that gathering?? Did Obama know that Ayers was a terrorist when he choose to serve on that board with him??
If you can show me where Obama has addressed those questions, that would be great.. But the fact that this CENTRAL ISSUE is not being screamed from the rooftops so that everyone couldn't help but hear about it indicates to me that Senator Obama was closer to Ayers than he wants people to know..
Michale.....
Michale.....
Why don't you do some research yourself? So far Obama's connection is being invited to his house by someone else when she announced her intention to run for senate and being on a board with him. Oh wow, scary...
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Why don't you do some research yourself?
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I could, very easily... But Joe Q Public can't or won't..
So, doesn't it behoove Obama to make the answers to these issues plainly available to all voters???
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So far Obama's connection is being invited to his house by someone else when she announced her intention to run for senate and being on a board with him. Oh wow, scary...
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Did Obama know that Ayers was a terrorist??? Did Obama accept the invitation to the "party" and to be on a board knowing that there was a terrorist on the board and at the "party"??
THAT is the issue...
Everything else from both the hysterical Right *AND* the hysterical Left is nothing but self-serving clap trap..
I want to know (and Joe Q Public wants to know) if Obama KNEW he was hobnobbing and rubbing elbows with a terrorist..
And, if Obama DID know, why did he choose to do this??
THESE are the questions Obama needs to address...
Michale.....
Michale, do you even know what Obama and Ayers supposedly did together?
First of all, Ayers happens to live in Obama's neighborhood. Second, they both want to improve the conditions of public schooling, get this, in their own neighborhood. Therefore, they, being of common mind in their hopes to improve the public education being offered to their children and their neighbors' children, served, OMG, on a couple of CHARITABLE BOARDS together *gasp*.
Holy crap, Batman! Do you see the terrorism that they are up to together. They both want to improve the schools! How dare they! Obama is clearly palling around with terrorists in order to improve the opportunities afforded the children in their common neighborhood. What a rogue! He should be outed for this association! Hell, he should be tried for treason!
Wait, didn't the first dude belong to a secessionist party for like, 7 years? Hmmmm. Maybe governor Palin is the one who has some questions to answer after all!
Michale, your idea of what "the ADULT Obama" should have known or done is laughable.
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Therefore, they, being of common mind in their hopes to improve the public education being offered to their children and their neighbors' children, served, OMG, on a couple of CHARITABLE BOARDS together *gasp*.
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Change the name from "Ayers" to "Bin Laden" and then try and be sarcastic about it..
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Wait, didn't the first dude belong to a secessionist party for like, 7 years? Hmmmm. Maybe governor Palin is the one who has some questions to answer after all!
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Did he blow up any buildings?? Did he put people's lives at risk??
No??
Then you bringing that up is nothing but a pathetic and failed attempt to redirect the issue...
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Michale, your idea of what "the ADULT Obama" should have known or done is laughable.
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I don't KNOW what Obama knew... THAT is why he needs to address it...
The fact that you don't CARE that Obama was working, knowingly or unknowingly, with a terrorist is what is laughable.. Actually it's not laughable.. It's sad..
You may not approve of my position or even LIKE my position.. But it IS the position of many MANY average & undecided voters.. The fact that these questions are not being address by the Obama campaign will come back to haunt Obama come 4 Nov...
Michale.....
Why is Gov. Failin married to a man whose allegiance is to a seccionist party who holds contempt for the constitution of the United States/
Oooh the scary black man will take the oath of office and then take over the country and turn us all into Muslims...oh my, help me...help me....
I would rather the intellectually dishonest right wingers just say what they really feel and wear your bigotry with pride. No need for white sheets any longer. Just tell the truth. Your side would at least get points for telling the truth instead of all of these bogus Ayers-Wright-bad black man smears. How sick and sad. Truly, truly sad.
WOW....
What complete and utter bigotry on your part....
You DO know that political bigotry is just as insidious, hateful and perverse as racial bigotry, right??
Michale.....
Hmm! That is surely a sophisticated way of telling the media to do their fracking job!
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