Sunday Roundup

In asserting this week that the surge has "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams," Obama was buying into the Republicans' framing on Iraq. As the Shiite-run Iraqi government is rounding up the Sunni leaders of the Awakening who were at the heart of the reduction in violence, political reconciliation -- the actual goal of the surge -- remains a mirage. McCain's amnesia platform holds that the outcome of the surge is the sum total of the Iraq scorecard -- wiping everything else clean. Forget invading over non-existent WMD, taking our eye off al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan, war profiteering and the empowering of Iran. And forget that Gen. Petraeus wants to delay planned troop cuts because he realizes that widespread violence could easily return to Iraq. Success beyond our wildest dreams? Perhaps when Sarah Palin said, "victory in Iraq is finally in sight," she was talking about a PR victory.

Comments

[research]

The Surge Has

INCREASED

VIOLENCE.

The more us troops we put in Iraq,

The Iraqis die.

That's the fact.

World wide terrorism has gain millions of new members thanks to our Iraq invasion war crime.

Surge Failed.

[Peg head Pete]

I think some of you people are obsessing. Noun, verb, surge? I heard Obama and O"Reilly and I still don't think Obama bought into the concept of the surge as a kind of principal passport to victory at all. That was clear from the follow up and reiterated in his interview with George Stephanopoulos today. Obama has been quite consistent on this issue. Bob Woodward also doesn't discount the surge as one of several important factors that contributed to the reduction of violence in and around Bagdad. Woodward"s book notwithstanding, I'll bet that most Americans don't really understand the logical fallacy of "post hoc ergo propter hoc." It's just easier for them simply to believe that "the surge worked PERIOD." Based on the press reports and poll results I"m acquainted with, I think the majority of Americans WANT to believe this and DO believe it. It would be politically futile for Obama or anyone else to convince Joe Six-pack that things were otherwise. Between this stuff here and McCain (noun, verb POW, Surge), I've got surge fatigue. Perhaps Obama inadvertently gave the Repubs some ammunition. So what? The Repubs have given him some too. If the American public is too intellectually lazy to figure this stuff out and get their Heads in control of their Gut-- well, as Jefferson said (I think it was Jefferson), "ultimately, people get the governments they deserve."

Bah, Humbug!

[lemikam]

Arianna really misses the point of what Obama was saying. The O'Reilly interview represented no kind of reversal, just use of new words to express the same idea: that the "Surge" had, yes it's true, brought the level of violence down.

If you put American soldiers with guns into a place and tell them to stop bad guys, they'll stop bad guys. No doubt about it. They succeeded in their mission "beyond our wildest dreams;" levels of violence fell further and faster than anybody expected them to. They deserve all the credit in the world. But the Surge wasn't just supposed to stop bad guys, it was supposed to make space for Iraqis to stand up. As it happens, a lack of space wasn't the problem; Iraq STILL has declined to make much of the important progress that everybody agrees needs to be made before this whole fiasco can be deemed over.

That American soldiers "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams," that the Surge worked to a point, perhaps to a further point than Sen. Obama (and President Bush) expected it to, does not mean that it worked in the absolute sense. Obama never said that it had. He's been consistent on this.

[politicky]

Raw Story's got a handle on the surge:

Dem voter registrations surge nation-wide
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Democrats_post_big_gains_in_voter_0906.html

Nationwide, there are about 42 million registered Democrats and about 31 million Republicans, according to statistics compiled by The Associated Press....
The Democrats have posted big gains in many competitive states, including Nevada, New Hampshire, Iowa, Colorado and Florida...
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iyCjg56QEYy3r8Gz2X09TnpaWOMwD9317JU00

[TheEmptinessOfTruthiness]

Obama certainly knew this question was coming. All his previous actions and statements indicate he knows that the Iraq war is a strategic lose-lose situation (for America anyway....).

So why would he say this now about this surge business, which even Bob Woodward says had little or nothing to do with the recent decrease in violence in Iraq?

Obama is a smart man, I hope this is part of another rope-a-Rove strategy....

[bagelmaven]

I LOVE Barack and I would NEVER NEVER vote Republican even for dog catcher. Barack is CLEARLY the better candidate on many fronts and Biden is LIGHT YEARS better than Sarah Baracuda...She is ridiculous. Having said that man something is missing. All of a sudden from two weeks ago Barack walks on water and then the white bread vanilla Republicans have their fest, drag out Palin and man the surge. what is Barack doing that is not good. He MUST be forceful...he must take a page from Alec Baldwin. The guy is an UNABASHED libweral and has cajones. and Barack needs them...don't pander, don't be mealy mouthed ... tell them to stick it and keep to your beliefs...what the hell the surge has succeeded beyond out wildest dreams???? Did he say that??? That's NUTS. It succeeds as long as the Sunni's don't quit us. There are tons of other factors...what is he saying??? I don't get it.

[timbyrnes]

Our strategic goal in Iraq should be threefold:
1/ self determination and economic independence for the people there in whatever political form they shall choose. In other words if the country should be devided into 3 sections or 15 shiekdoms as a result of the action of the people who live there then it should be so. This is called freedom.
2/ quit wasting our money there and
3/ bring our troups home.
The surge failed on all three goals. How can it be said to be a success. Only leaving the country will bring about all of these useful goals.
To think that Iraq should be organized in a goverment of our choice so we can harvest their natural resources without too much trouble mocks our fundamental principles of freedom and fairness. Evaluating success without a framework for evaluation is stupid.
Since the shock and awe campaign, we have created most of the violence there. After we leave the violence will cease. Putting off that day only prolongs the violence. The only thing we are there to arrange is an orderly transfer of natural resources.

[nickwib]

You could say the same of a bank heist.

[scottman1085]

The government is not big enough or strong enough.

[theyank]

I have to wonder... was Obama really just making a backhanded remark. What I think he knows and I just wish he would say it a little better, a little more clearly in the language of Joe America(which is me) is: the surge on the surface APPEARS to have worked but the true test is of course as WE all know is how the Iraqis step up to the plate in regard to their own governance. Is his stance that we would be further along in the test had we not diverted with the surge. We can surge for the next 100 years and if the Iraqis can't get it together when we scale back then we can surge till the cows come home to no avail !! Obama knows that more troops will quell the violence but when those troops are gone we are back to the Point Of Truth which is where we are today and which is why Petraeus wants to slow back down troop withdrawal. I am glad I am not in a position of being an Obama advisor. Maybe he just needs to go out on the proverbial limb on this one....maybe not.

[mbaty]

Success is relative. Therefore, the Surge is a Success! But who is succeeding from it, and how? We wil achieve Victory in Iraq! But what is Victory, whose definition? If "Rising oil prices and energy prices" is "Success," then indeed, we are doing marvelously. If "bringing down the government, the economy and the American way of life by overbearing debts" is success to someone, then yes, we are succeeding. If, however, we want a peaceful world where all can flourish within their unique culture, where all have the right to practice whatever religion they want and hold whatever opinions they want, where all are seen as inherently equal and given equal opportunity, then NO, we are not succeeding. But what do we want? Do we know? Do we want a superficially peaceful country where warring ideologies are separated from each other, leading to a tense, but ordered,way of life? A modicum of civility through gritted teeth, firearms at the ready but a fragile truce?

[alfrede]

Hi,

Senator McCain has yet to speak of what his definition of "victory" is in Iraq.

Since the US gets along pretty well with the other Arab states (Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, etc,) and these are not democracies, will the next Administration (be it McCain or Obama) decide that it is not the US job to make a democracy in Iraq?

Granted, the loss of U.S. lives and money over Iraq is horrendous, BUT, is it in our national interest that Iraq be a democracy or can it be an Arab state such as Saudi which is doing business every day with the US?

Neither Senator McCain nor Obama have spoken about this; perhaps the US Congress will.

What do U think?

[fdavidm]

I fear Obama is going to lose this election with stupid statements like the one he just uttered for Bill O'Reilly indicating the surge has suceeded combined with his statement at the Evangelic forum about the beginning of life. On Meet the Press he also announced that he once thought about serving in the military but decided not to. Where are his advisors when he is out there committing suicide. I'm sure the attack dog Palin will be repeating this statement any day now, no matter that she clearly didn't serve in the military either. If he doesn't reign in his nuanced statements, we'll be looking at four more years of George Bush in the guise on an old man and pitbull with lipstick.

[Shiderette]

McCain must be exposed for the fraud he is. He crashed 5 military aircraft during his illustrious "service to our Country." Committed service personnel do not loose plane after plane. A young hotshot who has no respect for authority, for the uniform, for his privilage and heritage behaves in a manner so reckless that, after a mere 20 HOURS of combat duty, he buzzes trees and crashes in the land of those he is attacking.
Medal upon medal was bestowed on this so-called hero who came home to find his beauty queen wife disfigured and decided this now gave him license to date women he picked up in bars while still wed. Hero my ass.
After all that, Palin pales in importance.

[charleydan]

Amazing that nada, nada gets on the Presidents desk with out congress putting it there.

Dems control both houses. President can veto, but only if he can get a 2/3 support to make it stick.

The war was solidly voted by Dems and Reps. Now skip out time. Once voted you must go the course. Obama even sees that.

National Banks is here. National health is next. Let me see. If you smoke, over weight, or playing dangerously. National health will tell you to straighten up before they help.

Call your congressmen for next mortgage. Oh, lobbyists and donators are first in line.

Now the the USA spends 100 billion more annually for human services then military. Either way the debt and costs now require borrowing a trillion or more each year.

Now my Democrat Senator tells me that bailing Fannie is buying time for the inevitable. I asked him if it can be totally avoided. Nada, just time and maybe how extreme the economic future will be.

My Rep Senator says, he wished we would bite the bullet and take it head on. Why, it will only be worse later since we keep putting more money out. Hyper-inflation with printing of money.

Wall Street gave five to one to Democrats this years campaign. Which party is the party of the rich? famous?

Also, Democrat Senators and Congressmen live in more millionaire communities then the right. So who is really for the rich and wallstreet.

[combatveteran]

The war was voted for solidly by the Democrats- wrong my friend that is a myth, 46% voted against in the Senate, even with the propaganda assault by the administration(s).

Don't trash talk

[SamuelBerry08]

I'm willing to admit that the surge has worked, but the conclusion ought to be "great, now let's get out". Obama appears to have bought into the Republicans' mindset earlier when he adopted the 14 month plan. By contrast, I'm still advocating withdrawal by Spring, 2009.

[dryhole]

Generals never speak of movements until they are over. Louis-Joseph de Montcalm-Gozon, Marquis de Saint-Veran (February 28, 1712 " September 14, 1759) Commander of the French forces in North America during the Seven Years' War (the North American phase of which is called the French and Indian War in the United States).