Why "Pretty" And "Ugly" Mean Nothing

Although I can answer most "Dear Doc" questions I receive to some extent or another, some stump even me. This week I got this one - any suggestions?

I just joined a gym in the neighborhood and noticed a really skinny girl working out. By the time I get there, she is full throttle doing cardio on the elliptical runner, and when I leave two hours later, she shows no signs of slowing. In the changing room last week, I couldn't help side glancing at her. Her back was painfully bony, legs and arms spindly, and literally looked like a skeleton. I can't help thinking she has anorexia and find myself worried about her health even though it's none of my business. I see her there every single time I am there. I'm worried that one day she won't come back. Is there anything I can say or do?

Anyone have any creative, outrageous or just simply kind advice?

While I'm stuck on this, I did, however, manage to dig up three pieces of unorthodox advice to parents of tweens or adolescent girls that I used during a presentation last year.

Your adolescent son has to grapple with the vague concept that women are attracted to "confidence" when they talk about male sex appeal (men's magazines will tell them). No young man can tell you what that really means; often they unfortunately misconstrue it to mean arrogance.

For girls, you should tell them that "pretty" isn't a place you should be striving to get to your whole life. In fact, the words "ugly" and the "pretty" mean almost nothing, given how subjective and malleable their definitions can be.

Here are some suggestions to help this idea hit home with them.

1. Take your daughters and sons to open dressing rooms. They need to see real people naked. (Yipes, during my last trip to Loehmann's, l was startled at the number of grandmotherly types sporting thongs. Note to my own mom: let's stick to boyshorts, okay?).

2. Show your daughters how make-up and Photoshop work so you can bust the myth of perfection. Most women do not have the ridiculously long torsos of Shape magazine covers and turning bat wings into taut triceps takes lots of consistent work.

3. Without being catty, make sure she sees those "stars without makeup" articles that magazines feature every once in a while, or "Just Like Us" columns that show zits and backfat (or strange discolored hands like Katie Holmes has, hmm).

A reality check can be the best piece of advice we can provide in our beauty-obsessed world.

Comments

[cyranorox]

I have a question for the several women who have been anorexic, and saw a fat body in the mirror when they were normal to deathly thin. Why was the fat body so very bad? Why not shrug and go on, especially since you were not suffering the real inconveniences of being fat, such as running badly or being bad at sports? or were you?

Why did being fat strike you as so terrible it ran your life? From an objective view, you weren't pursuing health, and I doubt you did a range of things, other than try to be thinner, to promote health. That's a cover story, I think.

[expatwing]

Anorexia isn't about being fat, skinny, healthy or sick - it's about being able to control something.

[ouroborous]

"Pretty" means "I approve" and "ugly" means "I disapprove" -- nothing less, nothing more.

They do actually mean something, but the meaning is purely subjective, which is why they should be de-emphasized. When we teach our young men and women that there is some actual, objective measurement of "pretty," we do them a grave disservice.

[Tulka2]

Want to save your kids from the media brainwashing...?

Unplug. A famous study asked college men both how attractive the women in their lives were and also how much t.v. they watched. There was a clear and frightening parallel. The more t.v. the young men watched the less attractive they reported the women in their own lives were.

Men in primitive cultures, men without access to western media, like nice, plump, soft women.

BTW...? Just read the other day that the lovely Gweneth Paltrow spends six hours a day, five days a week with a personal trainer buffing up her skinny ass. It's her JOB! Particularly sad when one notes her grandfather was the head Rabbi in England and one of the great minds of his generation.

[lrubemp]

Oh, come on. "Pretty" and "ugly" mean nothing? Are you kidding? Do you live in this world? Every survey shows that standards of beauty, male and female, are very predictable and resistant to glib preaching about being "in the eye of the beholder." It just ain't true, and it does no service to perpetuate a myth that only encourages unrealistic expectations. The key is to find validation in other ways besides sexual allure, which, let's face it, is a primal instinct, nothing more.

[MizLee]

Thank you! Lets be real. The first step toward doing the best you can with what you've got is to be completely honest with yourself. For example, at age 55, I'm certainly not going to tug on those spandex pants I wore in the late seventies. But you can certainly play up the good, hide as much of the bad as you can, and work on improving your mind. That's where the action is.

[dawlishgal]

I am appalled by shows like "Ugly Betty" that take a basically attractive normal-sized woman and stick on a pair of unflattering glasses and some braces on her teeth and dress her in her grandmother's clothes and call her "ugly." When she shows up slimmer at award shows dressed to the teeth and with no glasses or braces, what are girls who must wear glass or braces or are of averge size to think except that they too are "ugly." To say that this program is redeemed by its focus on "inner-=beauty" is utter bullcrap when it comes to being a role model for teenaged girls. What teenage girl worries about "inner beauty?"

When I was a teenager, there was a spate of movies and magazine short stories that featured something like a nerdish girl falling for the quarterback who was her friend, but couldn't really "see" her because she wore glasses and her hair in a bun. When some accident made her take off her glasses or her hair fell out of the bun, it was only THEN that the much desired sexual object decided that he loved her.

So we had that same bad lesson, and the rude awakening when the braces and glasses came off
and we were still not beautiful.

[Avedon]

Frankly, I consider Ugly Betty an improvement over some of the stuff I saw when I was younger.

I'm still thunderstruck whenever I recal the episode of Marcus Welby where a guy showed up with an "ugly" wife who was played - without glasses or braces, mind you - by Brenda Vaccarro. She looked just like Brenda Vacarro. She didn't have a lot of make-up on, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out what was supposed to be so ugly about her.

In Hollywood, what they usually mean by "ugly" is a conventionally attractive woman who doesn't have make-up on. (This works better with natural blondes, whose eyelashes are damn-near invisible without mascara.)

It's true, though, that "pretty" and "ugly" are pretty subjective terms. I often hear men complain that Hollywood's beautiful women are too scrawny, for example. On the other hand, I also meet men who prefer smaller-breasted women. You just don't know what a guy is going to think is attractive - and anyway, most men will fall for about 90% of women if they just smile and make eye-contact.

[missviv]

There was a girl just like that at the gym I go to. I could see every bone on her chest and her spine. She was always drenched in sweat and I remember immediately thinking she must have an eating disorder. I haven't seen her in months.. I hope she's doing better.

[NoSillyName]

I completely disagree with the suggestion to take boys & girls into "open" dressing rooms. If I were in there trying on clothes, I'd be uncomfortable enough without children gawking at me. I'm no exhibitionist and I surely wouldn't be naked in that situation. Even if I don't wear underwear at home in hot weather, if I'm going to a dressing room, I put some on first.

[querencia]

Kind of shocked to hear people say that expressing love or concern for strangers is somehow morally wrong or intrusive. My view is- we are all in this together. And- if someone is actually ill or suffering from a disorder- well intentioned advice or judgement or intervention from a stranger is unlikely to be helpful or accepted. Why start there? Is it so difficult to just say hello or hold a space of brotherly/sisterly love for another human being? If you feel a connection, to open a conversation- find out what you might have in common besides the same gym? I have had some hard times in my life, and more than once, the simple kindness of someone taking a moment to notice or care about me, made a big difference in my outlook, eased some suffering in that moment. My only advice is the one I try to consistently follow myself. Be kind. That is often the most healing action we have the chance to take on behalf of others.

[GomezAdams]

My advice, leave em alone. If you saw someone overweight would you go up to them? You are assuming the person has Anorexia, it may be a symptom of another ailment. I have muscular dystrophy, for years people assumed I had HIV/AIDS because I was skinny. The worse people are the do gooders. People just want to be left alone.

[LadyFist]

If you can see a rib-cage through someones back--they are way too skinny! The lady at the gym is obviously not really healthy, even if she is training or something... I think the deal is though, in people that aren't mentally ill, being thin is perceived in a weird way. For instance, bone structure is a big part of what size you can be. There are people who are very thin and don't look too horrid because they have the right bone structure to carry it off. Then there are people who are just too thin and either look sickly, or flabby or just unattractive because they are too thin. It seems though that we don't really have the epidemic of extreme thinness here in states, so much as extreme fatness! How often do you see anyone walking around that is even close to being anorexic? But even teen-age girls now are chubby--like 'middle aged womanwho'shadthreekidsandwatchessoapsallday kinda chubby. That seems to be a bigger problem, no pun intended and just as unhealthful. And there is no mental illness to blame(clinically anyway).

[wagadog]

Perfect Line.

Julie Kavner in Woody Allen's segment of New York Stories ("Oedipus Wrecks")

"You're too thin! You should eat more!"

[shamaniceconomist]

With a New York accent!

[Tulka2]

If you are worried about your children? Pare back their media time. A famous study done years ago, asked college men to rank for attractivness the co-eds at their schools. They were also asked how much tv they watched. There was a direct link. The men who reported watching lots of tv consistantly ranked the women they actually knew as less attractive than the men who did not watch tv much.

Segue...? I read somewhere that the lovely Gweneth Paltrow spends six hours a day, five days a week with a personal trainer. It's her job. Sort of pathetic when one realizes her grandfather was one of the great minds and the head Rabbi in England. Just sayin'.

[shamaniceconomist]

As a marathon runner who years ago was considered painfully skinny, I can promise you that doing a boring exercise for hours on end does not necessarily mean something is wrong. Preparing for a marathon takes hundreds of hours, including a few weeks of intensive training that must look crazy to people who don't fully understand what a marathon is.
Also, anorexia is an eating disorder. Seeing a person exercise is not a sign of anorexia.
For what it's worth, here's my advice:
You need to stop judging people by their size or body composition. The reason being too fat or too skinny is a problem is that it tends to reduce a person's energy level. You're too fat not if you're a certain size, but if the fat is slowing you down. You're too thin not if you're a certain size, but if your physical strength and stamina are suffering. And when you look at other people, you need to accept that there is a wide variation in the way that people look. People who look noticeably different from models hear about it far more often than you would imagine. They don't need to hear it from you too. There is no kind way to go up to a stranger and tell them they don't look like a model.

[strandwolf]

I am currently given to understand that 'anorexia' goes way beyond being categorized or denoted as "an eating disorder". I am not sure if the "nature" of this shall we say mental or emotional illness has been pinpointed by consensus in the psychiatric field but a while back speculation by researchers and theorists included triggers such as unconscious power struggle with the person's parent, etc.

[shamaniceconomist]

The view of anorexia you describe is a dissenting view. I am not aware of any definitive finding of anorexia in a person who was eating normally.

[sklinlaw]

I agree with all that you said, but I remember the day I took the NY bar exam five years ago, there was a woman who was SOOO painfully thin that I literally did a double take. I had only seen photos of famine victims but she definitely qualified - I could see her hip bones from BEHIND while we were all standing in line for the restroom. Maybe she was sick, maybe she was anorexic, or maybe she's just naturally famine-thin, but I can relate with the gal who wrote in because I definitely had the urge to ask if she was alright.

If I saw her going crazy on a treadmill every time I went to the gym, I know I would not be able to NOT ask, just out of concern. I didn't say anything to the girl at the bar exam (I mean, we were all tense enough as it was) given the fact we were complete strangers but if she were a "familiar stranger," it seems almost out of basic human kindness to ask if she is okay. My two cents' worth.

[shamaniceconomist]

You are probably right, and when you have a strong hunch I wouldn't want you to squelch it. This story, though, as I read it, describes a girl who looked basically normal while wearing exercise clothes and looked painfully skinny only without the clothes. Yet most of us have more experience and will get a more accurate impression seeing people clothed, so that impression was probably the correct one.

I like the idea of treating "familiar strangers" in a friendly way. But I believe this works much better if you do not start out with an observation that could be taken as a criticism. I've known people who were in chemotherapy and looked obviously ill at times and they assured me it was a relief when they could go for a couple of hours without someone asking what was wrong with them.

[ah2323]

Not sure where you were going with the comment quoted below. The number of "security moms" who helped to put Bush in office in 2004 because he made them feel safer from the Tan Peril suggests, however, that the confusion between confidence and arrogance is not specific to either gender. And maybe the young men are right; arrogance seems to take one pretty far.

"Your adolescent son has to grapple with the vague concept that women are attracted to "confidence" when they talk about male sex appeal (men's magazines will tell them). No young man can tell you what that really means; often they unfortunately misconstrue it to mean arrogance. "

[LittleGirl]

My niece's back bone showed before they diagnosed her with hyperthyroidism. It could be a medical problem. She was about 10 lbs underweight before they finally got her thyroid medicine just right.
But then again, if this girl is that skinny and exercising for 2 hrs everytime you go to the gym, it could be anorexia.
As a stranger, you have no business showing concern. Stay out of it. If you become friends with her, after a while, I'm sure you'll find out the reason for her thinness without even asking. Don't be rude and ask her, even politely. You have no right to say anything. Just look away.

[TheBlackCat]

Talking to a stranger really won't do anything, if anything it will validate them. I suffered from anorexia and bulimia for ten years, and at the time my mind was really messed up. If I was doing well and my weight got more normal, and people told me I looked good, I would take that as meaning "bad". When I was skin and bones and lived at the gym, people would talk to me out of concern and say that I looked bad, looked very sick, etc, and I took that as meaning that I was "good". I cannot explain why many anorexics think this way. I was extremely paranoid and thought other people were lying to me to confuse me, so I always assumed whatever they said concerning my weight was really the opposite of what they meant. Years of therapy never helped me sort this out.

A few years ago I got put on a medication for obsessive compulsives and after a year or so on the meds my brain just started being normal and I no longer had these thoughts, and now I know when someone says I look good or healthy they mean just that. I haven't had any symptoms of eating disorders in years, but from my own experiences and the experiences of people I met when hospitalized, a stranger expressing concern will likely only be twisted by the sufferer's very ill brain. Any comments of ANY kind will likely cause more harm than good.

[StephenJK]

I agree with these sentiments. This person needs to understand that there are millions with all different kinds of "disorders" and it is the FAMILY's place to intervene and/or counsel. Hypothetically, the place of employment COULD intervene and/or counsel. However, that scenario requires some special circumstances.

The best course of action, though, would be to make fun of that person in a loud manner so others can hear you belittling him/her. This is the most effective method to get someone to take an introspective look at themselves.

PS - The second paragraph is total BS.

[TheBlackCat]

Anorexics aren't thinking rationally. Making fun of them or even talking to them at length isn't likely to make them take an introspective look at themselves. If you make fun of them they won't think it's because of THEIR behavior, they will think YOU have the problem. That you are trying to trick them into being bad. When my friends tried this tactic on me all it did was make me isolate myself and become extremely anti social. It increased my paranoid deludions that the world was out to get me and trick me into eating, which I KNEW would destroy me and make me a horrible person.

Mentally ill people can't be expected to look at themselves and make rational determinations. Only when I went on medication did I stop thinking this way, and now when I look back on all those years it is extremely difficult for me to understand how I could ever have been like that. I now know that no part of me was thinking normally and nothing anyone could have said - out of concern or in a mocking manner, could have ever changed me. I am extremely lucky that medication simply over time stopped the voices in my head which controlled me. Many sufferers do not respond so well and never truly recover, they just learn how to live with the disease.