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What's Halfway Between 1 and 9? Kids and Scientists Say 3

Posted: 10/22/2012 6:32 pm

Quick: What's halfway between 1 and 9?

If you're like me, you answered "5," which is (approximately) the right answer. But if you've got a 6-year-old kid on hand, try asking him or her. According to a recent study, most little kids will answer "3," as will many people in non-literate cultures. And as it turns out, there's a solid evolutionary reason why that guess makes sense.

2012-10-18-NautilusCutawayLogarithmicSpiral.jpgThe reason, strange as it may seem, is that our neural circuits are evolved to count logarithmically rather than linearly. This strikes me as ironic, because logarithms always drove me nuts with their anti-intuitiveness back in high school math class. The basic idea, if you remember, is that a logarithm is the inverse of an exponential, so if 102 = 100, then the log10(100) = 2. Unlike me, many scientists and artists are in love with logarithms, because these functions elegantly describe all sorts of ever-tightening curves and spirals, such as fractal patterns, ratios between musical octaves and, most famously, the golden ratio itself.

It's likely that we love logarithmic shapes so much because logarithms are hardwired into our sensory pathways. Stevens' power law explains that we perceive logarithmic increases in light, sound and heat (among lots of other stimuli) as if they were linear increases. For example, as heat rises along a tightening logarithmic curve -- say, from 80º to 84º to 86º to 87º -- our sense of touch is growing correspondingly more sensitive to each increase, causing us to perceive smaller and smaller changes as if they were equal. In short, we might describe that logarithmic temperature change as a linear rise from 80º to 84º to 88º to 92º.

From a survival perspective, this relativistic estimation is actually really practical, because it provides reasonable guesses while saving on energy. Imagine that you're a stone-age warrior stalking through the forest with your tribe, when suddenly a pack of wolves leap out of the shadows. If you can instantly guess whether it's more like a three-wolf pack or a nine-wolf pack, you can make a snap decision about whether to stand and fight or turn and run. On the other hand, distinguishing between a nine-wolf pack and, say, a 10- or 11-wolf pack isn't nearly as helpful. In other words, your brain is evolved to estimate in a way that minimizes relative errors rather than absolute ones; the larger the sample size, the less individual variations matter. (As you might've noticed, this logarithmic curve is the reverse of the temperature curve above, where smaller and smaller changes became more and more significant as they progressed.)

In fact, the differences between logarithmic and linear counting only leap into sharp contrast when we compare our brains' estimates with the precision of mathematics, which brings us back to my original point about numbers between 1 and 9. Because 30 = 1, 31 = 3, and 32 = 9, the number 3 is logarithmically halfway between 1 and 9, and young children somehow intuitively know that. This gives new meaning to the term "baby genius," doesn't it? The folks at Radiolab certainly thought so; they devoted a whole podcast to infant intuition about numbers.

This all points back to one of the stranger ideas in the philosophy of science: Numbers themselves don't actually exist in the same way forests and wolves do; we made them up to count and classify what we observe in the world around us. Math may be the "language of the universe," but it's still a language -- a map, but not the territory itself. So what's "really" halfway between 1 and 9? In the end, the answer depends on how you're counting.

 

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09:24 AM on 12/15/2012
Amazing! I'm 53 years old and waaaayyyy back when I was in high school I loved all the Maths and always had high grades - until we hit logarithms. For some reason I just could NOT grasp the concept and it stopped me dead in my tracks. Even though I always loved Math, I never went any further.

But your article is amazing. Makes me want to go back to that class and start all over again. Your visualizations at least explain WHAT logarithms are and I love the concept of "1, 2, ... a lot". Need to go find me a math class for old folks now. :) You just stoked my long-dead curiosity again!
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Anybodyseenthepopos
אני כלום בלעדיהם
02:17 PM on 10/28/2012
1 2 3 4 FIVE 6 7 8 9

Just a little "visual aid" for those still coming up with 3. Or 4.5 lol.
12:13 AM on 10/27/2012
Just from reading the link you provided, I can tell you that this statement:

"Stevens' power law explains that we perceive logarithmic increases in light, sound and heat (among lots of other stimuli) as if they were linear increases"

is incorrect. Stevens' power law is, as the name suggests, a power law: it describes a polynomial, not a logarithmic, relationship between stimulus and sensation. Your reference to Stevens' power law therefore tends to undermine rather than support the rest of your post. You might want to try reading your links before posting.
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Ben Thomas
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03:00 PM on 10/27/2012
My understanding of that linked article was that, since Stevens' power law expresses the relationships between stimulus intensity and perception are expressed as exponents, those relationships are logarithmic. As several commenters below have pointed out, though, math has never come naturally for me; and after some further Googling/reading, I'm still not sure I understand why a power law can't generate a logarithmic curve. If you wouldn't mind explaining what I'm misunderstanding here, I'd be very grateful.
02:29 AM on 10/28/2012
Sure, let me try to explain. The mere presence of an exponent in a formula does not imply that there is an exponential (or logarithmic) relationship being described.

Take this example: y=x^2 (y equals the square of x). If we write down some (x,y) pairs, then we have (0,0),(1,1), (2,4), (3,9), (4,16), (5,25), ..., (9,81), (10,100). This is an example of a power law.

Now look at this example: y=2^x (y equals two to the power of x). Here are some (x,y) pairs for this equation: (0,1),(1,2),(2,4),(3,8),(4,16),(5,32),...(9,512),(10,1024). This is an example of an exponential relationship. You can see that, as x goes higher, y increases much more rapidly than for the power law example. The two types of relationships are qualitatively very different.

I do not claim to know anything at all about Stevens' power law apart from what I read in your link, and I also know nothing at all about the science of the perception of stimuli. I only wanted to call attention to the fact that the description of Stevens' power law in your link does not appear to provide support for the rest of the material in your post. I don't know the relationship between Stevens' power law and other work that does suggest a logarithmic relationship between stimulus and response. Perhaps the explanation is as simple as a log having already been implicitly taken in the definition of "sensation magnitude" in your link.
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Ben Thomas
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03:02 PM on 10/27/2012
Sorry; typo. My first sentence in that comment should've been: "My understanding of that linked article was that, since Stevens' power law expresses the relationships between stimulus intensity and perception as exponents, those relationships are logarithmic."
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JesusWasNicer
It takes an Atheist to truly appreciate Jesus
12:12 AM on 10/27/2012
Thought provoking (as proven by the outraged responses posted here).

We invented numbers. Before we invented them it makes sense we would just say "One, two, a lot".

We don't say "Look, 349 trees", we say "Look, a forest".
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Ben Thomas
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03:10 PM on 10/27/2012
That brings up another interesting point about how we see the world: once a collection of objects (trees) becomes large enough, our minds classify it as another object (a forest) - but that threshold usually isn't sharp and clear, so we invent other stop-gap words for stages along that gradient: "grove," "woods," etc.
05:43 PM on 10/26/2012
I don't think this article cites nearly enough evidence to support the notion that people are wired to think in logarithms.

Less civilized societies often do not have words for numbers beyond three. The Yanomamo have words for one, two and many. That is more typical of primitive societies. Children learn to count by memorizing the numbers and learning to use their fingers and later their minds to tally up objects, a process on top of the language instinct.

Knowing how to count tens of objects is useful for societies with money or farms with dozens of sheep or bushels of crops. Not so important when you're hunting - if there are "a lot" of buffalo that's is all you need to know and if you bag three it was a blockbuster day.

I bet if you showed the kids a picture of nine blocks they would pick the fifth block most of the time as the middle. (Which would be the middle, 4 on each side, not "approximately" 5 as this article wrongly states.)
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Ben Thomas
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03:08 PM on 10/27/2012
As several commenters have pointed out, we don't necessarily "think in logarithms." Still, there are a variety of cases in which our sensory sensations are proportional to the logarithm of the stimulus intensity. This is the basis of the Weber–Fechner law.
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03:41 PM on 10/26/2012
this explains why i can't logically understand the math in mitt romney's tax plan!!
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Eliott Terrance
Talking truth to power since 1929
02:29 PM on 10/26/2012
Fascinating.
12:45 PM on 10/26/2012
A stopped clock is right twice a day. Maybe it intuitively thinks logarithmically too.
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Jamie Kowalski
Composer
11:11 AM on 10/26/2012
The brief mention of musical octaves deserves more attention, (as does decibels vs. perceived loudness.)

We notate and think of musical pitches as steps, but they are actually ratios. If we transpose any melody up one octave we add 12 semi-tones on paper, but the actual change in frequency is multiplication by 2.

Another interesting point is that simple ratios give us the more common consonant harmonies. In "just intonation":

1:2 = octave
2:3 = perfect fifth
3:4 = perfect fourth
4:5 = major third
5:6 = minor third
3:5 = major sixth
5:8 = minor sixth

Generally speaking, the more complex the ratio, the more dissonant it will seem to the ear. The topic gets much more complex when you consider equal temperament. For the curious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament
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Ben Thomas
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02:34 PM on 10/26/2012
Thanks for taking the time to explain that! My understanding of music theory is very basic, so I'm glad you jumped in and spelled it out more precisely.
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David N Taiwan
68 YO American in Taiwan
10:51 AM on 10/26/2012
Rather than going through all those mind-numbing algorithms, I simply held up my fingers as I did in elementary school. I had five fingers on one hand and four fingers on the other. I quickly realized that on the hand with five fingers, one of them had to be in between the four fingers on that hand and the other fingers on the other hand, thus, 5 was between 4 and 4.
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Ben Thomas
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02:33 PM on 10/26/2012
That's another way to figure it out, but it calls on a different mental process: instead of reasoning abstractly, you're using information from your environment. As several of these commenters below have pointed out, I sometimes have trouble doing either one, haha.
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David N Taiwan
68 YO American in Taiwan
08:58 PM on 10/26/2012
Yes, reality can be a bee-atch sometimes.
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07:38 AM on 10/26/2012
logic is just a sequence a path to follow much like the way DNA is made up

children see if easier because they are not as influenced by peoples views of the world

like neon trees says everybody's talking

well if everybody is talking no one is listening

kids see things very simply for what they are because they do not have the capacity to manipulate people yet

look at kids at a park they will play with any kid of any color any financial background and religious background

because they understand if they don't look past the boundaries in our minds they would be sitting on the bench all a lone having no fun

SIMPLE LOGIC

take out the preconceived beliefs and just have fun building an amazing home planet and start populating others

lets have fun focusing on creation not destroying it thats simply logic
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07:25 AM on 10/26/2012
in fact if Newton ,Maxwell, etc had put there work together we probably would be light years ahead of ourselves

our environment changes all the time so our scientific answers theories and answers should

science evolves as well it is not a permanent form it changes so must equations

you can see logical events and follow mans patterns

you can follow a path and predict how due to a persons evolution taking in just small aspects of their beliefs and thoughts you can predict how they will react to different situations

our past and our knowledge are our greatest gifts, combine that with our curiosity thats an energy source and supercomputer made up of the best organic brains processing and evolving

thats the funny thing about computers is that we have to give them the sequence order and equations otherwise the sequence is wrong and so will the numbers
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07:25 AM on 10/26/2012
3 would be the number

the fact is logic is just a series of steps in a sequence that follows certain laws of nature at its smallest form to grow in to a large form micro to macro

if we can do it on a small scale you can replicate on a larger scale and that is how we learn and apply

Archimedes took logical events like the the crown and the bath story to prove fake gold used

science is logic math is logic problem is everyone has different strengths

i like logic and words but the math,chemistry.physics,biology etc i am not good at but their are people who excel at it so they are the ones who should do the calculations and so on

we need to work as a team

companies are so scared of people stealing ideas that they shield them when in fact if you put the ideas to gether they may actually be the answer you need
04:00 AM on 10/26/2012
Why did you say that 5 is 'approximately' the right answer between 1 and 9? IT IS EXACTLY between 1 and 9. (1 + 9) / 2 = 5. Basic math man, c'mon!
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Ben Thomas
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11:20 AM on 10/26/2012
Because 4.5 is exactly halfway between 1 and 9.
12:06 PM on 10/26/2012
4.5 is exactly halfway between 0 and 9. Between 1 and 9 it is 5
12:14 PM on 10/26/2012
1 5 9

.... 5 is exactly the halfway between 1 and 9. I even counted it out for you.
03:45 AM on 10/26/2012
Ok let's talk math. "What's halfway between 1 and 9?" ......5 not "approximately" but absolutely. This is the advantage of math, you use the number representation that reflects life most accurately. ie using integers. 5 is exactly between 1 and 9. Using some other functions such as logarithmic may be suitable at other times. But the human mind is both cunning, and very simple at the same time. Putting things into boxes and giving them a simple label is human nature, being able to think outside of this is exceptional.
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Ben Thomas
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11:18 AM on 10/26/2012
4.5 is halfway between 1 and 9, using linear counting.
12:59 PM on 10/26/2012
No it isn't. (1+9)/2 = 10/2 = 5. This is BASIC ARITHMETIC.

Another way to look at it is like this -- how far apart are 1 and 9? 8 (9-1). So half of that distance is 4. What's 4 away from 1 and 4 away from 9? It's 5.
10:55 PM on 10/27/2012
Nope. CydeWeys is right 4.5 is halfway between 0 and 9. not 1 and 9 that would be 5