iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Ben Thomas

GET UPDATES FROM Ben Thomas
 

Your Brain on Immortality

Posted: 07/26/2012 11:59 pm

How'd you like to live forever? The question is sparking more serious scientific debate than ever before. But this time, it's not mind uploading or anti-aging that's spurring argument. It's a new kind of approach.

The plan is to chemically hit the "pause" button on a living human brain, then preserve microscopic slices capturing every detail: every protein, every synapse, every neuron. These perfectly preserved slices will then await future technologies that can reconstruct a functioning brain -- and your consciousness -- from the data these slices contain.

Or at least, so says Kenneth Hayworth.

Who is Ken Hayworth? Good question. I can tell you he started his career by racking up a dozen or so patents at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. From there he headed for the University of Southern California, where, as a grad student, he invented and patented a new kind of brain scanner. I could also mention that he's been working at Harvard lately, researching the human brain's visual system. But none of that would explain what Ken Hayworth is all about.

Because the main thing you need to know about Ken Hayworth is this: He thinks neuroscience will make us immortal. Farfetched? He's not denying it. But impossible? That, he says, is a much tougher question to answer.

Take connectomics, for example. Over the past decade or so, data on the brain's microscopic wiring has been flooding into labs faster than anyone can catalogue or study it; so connectomics, a new branch of neuroscience, has sprung up around this data. Backed by multimillion-dollar grants, connectomics researchers design new software just to crunch this wealth of numbers -- and to develop neuron-by-neuron simulations of our brain's most elaborate behavior. And it's connectomic technology, Hayworth says, that makes his plan for immortality feasible.

"[Connectomics] will open up possibilities we've never dreamed of," Hayworth says. "Other neuroscientists will come around when they see the massive amounts of connectome data that we're generating, and they'll say, 'Wow, the future has arrived.'"

In that future, as Hayworth explains it, we'll take a much less permanent view of death. Anyone who's ready to leave his or her aging body will, after a cheerful "going-away" party, relax under anesthesia, then be filled with a chemical that fixes every molecule in the brain in place. A staining solution will be injected to make cell membranes more visible under a microscope. Finally, all the water will be drained from the brain and spinal cord, to be replaced with plastic resin."The most perfectly preserved fossil imaginable," Hayworth says -- and one that, in the still more distant future, he hopes will enable you to be revived.

It's not a view that's won Hayworth many converts, even in the connectomics community. For instance, MIT's Sebastian Seung counters that while a connectome is a scientific concept, selfhood remains a philosophical one; in other words, the former is a data set that can be examined in a lab, while the latter is a purely subjective experience. Until we develop scientific techniques for examining subjective consciousness (or life after death) in a lab, Seung says, "it's just your word against mine" as to who -- or what -- would wake up in that resurrected brain. Olaf Sporns, the neuroscientist who coined the term "connectomics," is even more blunt: "I am not my connectome," he says.

Despite their skepticism, Seung, Sporns, and other prominent neuroscientists continue to sit on the foundation's advisory board. After all, they say, Hayworth's obsession has already inspired its share of brain imaging breakthroughs, and it's likely to lead to more. It's tempting to cite the old saying about babies and bathwater -- and to point out that in this particular case, the baby is widely considered a genius.

Then, of course, there's that other old saying, the one about genius and insanity. But "science has tremendous self-correcting mechanisms," as Sporns says. "Truly crazy ideas never go far, but unconventional ideas do sometimes push forward the boundaries of knowledge. So I salute Ken's courage and hope he continues to push the envelope."

The whiff of curiosity, subtle though it may be, is hard to deny.

 

Follow Ben Thomas on Twitter: www.twitter.com/theconnectome

FOLLOW SCIENCE
 
 
  • Comments
  • 56
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
The Westender
People prefer simple lies to complicated truths
10:53 AM on 08/09/2012
Forget that. Live a good life, love your friends, family and the un-loveable and when death comes for you, it will come as a friend.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
booker52
avid reader
08:44 PM on 08/06/2012
No thanks
photo
oneeasyrider
E=mc2: From light you exist
06:41 AM on 08/02/2012
Interesting, but there's zero possibility this will work in the near or distant future, or even, if ever. Why? Consciousness is the essence of who we are. Even while our bodies regenerate roughly every seven years it's intangible consciousness that's responsible for perception of our existence. i.e. What good is a car without a driver?

Without consciousness our bodies are nothing more than inanimate matter. Rather than preserving our bodies for some future miracle cure or reversed aging process it's more legitimate to transfer our consciousness to another healthy body (from some foolish person willing to give up their body)...but of course that isn't possible because we're clueless how consciousness is connected to our bodies in the first place...see the problem?

If we have no possibility of transferring consciousness from one body to another, there's no possibility to revive our body from stasis at some future time drawing consciousness back into the body (from where -- exactly...what's it's origin and where does it go?...emergent property explains nothing). Once a person is dead, whether by stasis or natural causes, no one knows how to retrieve consciousness...it's a bridge too far.
07:15 PM on 08/03/2012
There may be ways to transfer consciousness from one body to something else... but it is rather unlikely that it would be the same consciousness in the end. Just like people grow as they age, and the person at the end of a long life does not resemble the person at the beginning, much, neither would the person at the end of such a transfer be the same as the one before.

Some may take the journey in the future... maybe even many. But they will do so knowing that it is a much greater change than what their naive ancestors hoped it would be.
photo
oneeasyrider
E=mc2: From light you exist
04:32 AM on 08/04/2012
If as you suggest, SJ...if we eventually learn to transfer consciousness from one body to something else (say, Data's positronic brain for example), then it would seem to demonstrate replacement of one receiver or conduit for another; even further demonstrating consciousness originates outside of ourselves -- independent of our body. I've included a couple of links you may not be aware which you will likely find interesting.

http://www.skeptiko.com/154-neurosurgeon-dr-eben-alexander-near-death-experience/

http://www.biography.com/tv/i-survived-beyond-and-back
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SKSagar
Superconsciousness switched on the bigbang
01:57 AM on 08/05/2012
Pleasant surprise OER … Where have you been? … Was missing you.
Agreed and well said…It’s not possible to pick up consciousness from one point and place it somewhere else as it is not a physical entity. Consciousness arrives on its own - from where we do not know - whenever there is an appropriate biochemistry that invites it.
photo
oneeasyrider
E=mc2: From light you exist
03:32 AM on 08/06/2012
Hey, SK! How are you doing, pal. I just decided to take a break for awhile and pursue other interests...always thinking about our deterministic universe though so naturally I was pursuing other people's experiences (you may have noticed if you followed links above). Then when I was reading about the Curiosity, links brought me back to HP last week, so I read a few science articles and...well...here I am.

I'll have to read through your profile to see what you've been writing about lately. I'm sure I'll see more of you as Curiosity details unfold in coming weeks and months. Like you, I'm looking forward to learning about new details.

"...whenever there is an appropriate biochemistry that invites it." -- well stated.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DAE
12:43 PM on 08/01/2012
I did not exist before I was conceived. Was I dead? I will not exist after I'm deceased. Will I be dead?
07:35 PM on 08/01/2012
The asymmetry stems from the fact that nobody could remember you before you were born, but some people can remember you after you die. To you... it's pretty much all the same.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SKSagar
Superconsciousness switched on the bigbang
03:52 AM on 07/30/2012
And if it really works.... Why wait till you are old.....An Olympic Gold medalist, who is a cut above the rest.... should try it when he is still young... So that he can keep winning that Gold Medal in every future Olympic.......provided they don`t change the rules or something.
11:36 PM on 07/31/2012
No Olympic medalist was ever above the Olympic medalists of the following generations. So what's the point? A gold medalist in 100m sprint from 1900 finished in 10.8s. That wouldn't even get you into the qualifiers these days.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SKSagar
Superconsciousness switched on the bigbang
01:29 AM on 08/05/2012
That’s why I said `A cut above the rest` … perhaps I should have used the words `A decent cut`… some Olympic records stood for several decades…example Jessie Owens Long jump.
Besides …What I was trying to say was ….That if this thing does really work …. Then in principle, one should go for the change when one`s mental and physical capacities are near their peak values, rather than wait till one is old and sick.
09:27 AM on 07/28/2012
"For instance, MIT's Sebastian Seung counters that while a connectome is a scientific concept, selfhood remains a philosophical one; in other words, the former is a data set that can be examined in a lab, while the latter is a purely subjective experience. Until we develop scientific techniques for examining subjective consciousness (or life after death) in a lab, Seung says, "it's just your word against mine" as to who -- or what -- would wake up in that resurrected brain. Olaf Sporns, the neuroscientist who coined the term "connectomics," is even more blunt: "I am not my connectome," he says."

Yeah, I thought about that too: it would probably mean immortality for a copy of you, not for yourself. Immortality would still be achieved but no one living today would ever be immortal.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SKSagar
Superconsciousness switched on the bigbang
03:03 AM on 07/29/2012
You are absolutely right... It will be a different person alltogether... with a different consciousness.. and probably a zero memory... a seventy year old six foot tall baby still to learn ABC... Perhaps a huge liability for a long time ... and we`ll not know how to deal with him or her...

A robot is anyday better.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SKSagar
Superconsciousness switched on the bigbang
04:16 AM on 07/30/2012
Besides.... We are already manufacturing plenty of cute babies… and having such fun bringing them up….I doubt it will be much fun bringing up a six feet tall baby….perhaps he will have more fun bringing you down.
nschomer
Scientifically Progressive Libertarian Socialist
03:08 PM on 08/03/2012
I think you missed the point if you think that the point here is to create a copy of yourself with no memory of being you. We can already do that, it's called cloning, and it would create a baby baby, not a 6 foot baby, sharing your exact genetics but obviously none of the memories. The point here is to be able to recreate yourself with all the memories, because the memories you carry are contained in the connections between neurons. If you map these connections, and recreate them, you transfer memories. Consiousness is another whole argument.
08:27 AM on 07/28/2012
It's reductionist, perhaps in the extreme, and in other contexts a tad immature.

But continue the research on that and the visual systems, both are worth it for a myriad of reasons.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SKSagar
Superconsciousness switched on the bigbang
08:01 AM on 07/28/2012
Why is it required ?
As it is, we are on the road towards self destruction due to overpopulation and depletion of resources.
If we succeed in these ventures...it will only increase our speed on that road...

So I am not wishing `Good luck` to those working on it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SKSagar
Superconsciousness switched on the bigbang
08:27 AM on 07/28/2012
On the other hand… if we concentrate our research on proving the equation ….

``The personal self = the omnipresent all comprehending eternal self```.....

And confirming Schrodinger`s views on the `Oneness of mind`…

That should be enough to ensure `Immortality` for all of us.
09:32 AM on 07/28/2012
If we stop having children (very likely when people will be living in artificial bodies) there will be no overpopulation. The only problems I can think of would be the question of how to replace victims of accidents, the problem of storing millennia worth of memories in a finite brain and a possible stagnation in thinking (if everyone would be a racist at the moment we achieve immortality, would that mean society would be forever racist because it would consist of grumpy old mins with engrained ways of thinking, or would everyone become enlightened because of huge amounts of life experience?)
11:52 PM on 07/27/2012
I think a better alternative would be cryopreservation. Something like Alcor. It gets around the "is it really me" argument because it is the same matter.
06:42 PM on 07/28/2012
Yes, but after Alcor is done with you, your matter is dead and your bank account is empty. They only care about the latter part.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Ben Thomas
Jailbreak your brain.
10:50 PM on 07/30/2012
Yep; I was waiting for this to come up - it's almost impossible to discuss Hayworth's ideas without raising the specter of Alcor. To me, the difference is that Alcor is oriented toward preserving biological matter, whereas Hayworth is interested in preserving data. Similar philosophical problems, sure - but preserving connectomic data seems more scientifically pragmatic, even if it doesn't result in immortality.
photo
erebus99
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
12:36 PM on 07/27/2012
Of the various ways to extend life that have been discussed lately this sounds like the least feasible. I don't see much difference between dying and hoping you'll find yourself in some kind of afterlife, and doing this - or anything like it - and hoping that "future scientists will find a way" to bring you back. They also assume that people would be interested in resurrecting someone from the most wasteful and destructive era in our history, or that, even if you had a contract with some company to do it, that there wouldn't be laws passed to forbid it,
I think the non-invasive techniques of regrowing organs using some form of intracellular matrix regeneration are more promising. As it is now you are literally not the same person you were a decade ago, but even though no new brain cell is an exact duplicate we have the illusion of continuity because the process is gradual. We would have to find a way, perhaps with connectomics, of retaining the existing pattern to allow regeneration without psychosis, and also a way of reprogramming the brain to accept regenerated organs that it's expecting to be aging.
Of course, being able to make people immortal AND make them sterile at the same time would be critical for obvious reasons.
One thing's for certain - if it can be done, somebody will do it, and once somebody has done it....
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Ben Thomas
Jailbreak your brain.
08:20 PM on 07/27/2012
You raise some concerns about resurrection that are impossible to discount. For one thing, there's no way of guessing what the society that "brings you back" will be like. It might be benevolent, sure - but your own culture shock might be severe nonetheless. The graphic novelist Warren Ellis has explored this idea in his series Transmetropolitan, where resurrected men and women have to huddle in special rest homes to avoid exposure to a world gone mad.

Continuity is also a critical question - the only sure way to know it's "really you" in that new brain is to preserve some kind of unbroken conscious link between the two. If that proves to be as major a concern in the future as it is today, regeneration might be a more viable option than data preservation.
nschomer
Scientifically Progressive Libertarian Socialist
03:14 PM on 08/03/2012
I'm not sold on the "unbroken conscious link" being the key. Are you not the same person after you wake up from being under general anaesthetic? You certainly have a disconnect, I've never been under myself, but from what I hear you count down from 10, and then wake up, with no real sense of passed time. Would this not be comparable to switching physical bodies?
SelfAwarePatterns
seek truth; question everything
11:30 AM on 07/27/2012
Personally, I'd like to see this research move forward. Those saying that the recorded connectome would not be them, should consider that, physically, you're not the same person you were ten years ago. Except for some of your bone structure, every atom in your body and brain as been replaced since then. What connects you of today with you of ten years ago is the organization of those atoms. What connects the you of today with the you of ten years from now will be that same organization. Assuming we've gone down to the necessary resolution level, what connects you to your recorded version will be that organization.

I don't know if the connectome is far down enough in resolution to capture that organization that makes me who I am. But if I were on my deathbed and had no other options, I'd be willing to volunteer and find out.

I agree with SwiftJonathan's comment below that it probably won't require as much storage as the naysayers claim. I suspect, when we finally understand how information is processed in the brain, we'll be surprised by how inefficient it is and how small the real information footprint actually is. (Of course, some may never accept it or any copies as being the same person.)
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Ben Thomas
Jailbreak your brain.
07:31 PM on 07/27/2012
I think you make a crucial point: until this kind of technique is tested on more complex animals than worms, there's really no way of knowing what exactly can be preserved, or how it'll relate to an organism's continuing sense of self. As a lot of these researchers have pointed out, what still remains is the so-called Hard Problem: the question of formally defining the relationship between our brain's communication networks and the subjective experience of being conscious.

At any rate, I'm with you: if I'm on my deathbed and have nothing to lose, why not give it a shot?
06:40 PM on 07/28/2012
" if I'm on my deathbed and have nothing to lose, why not give it a shot?"

Give what a shot? There is nothing there to try.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Brooke123456
God is ....(fill in the blank how you like)
11:12 AM on 07/27/2012
Here is a philosophical problem with this. (assume the scan can be achieved without distruction of the original brain)
1. say you scan my brain, and get every detail, then build a brain (and body to house it) just like it.
2. The new brain would have all my memories and experiences and would identify itself as me....but call itself "I".
3. My original brain (and body) still survives the experience of scanning and it still identifies itself as me...calling itself "I".
The new brain is NOT me, it is a new individual.
The only logical conclusion is that there is no such thing as "consciousness" or there is no such thing as "MY consciousness".
So you have two brains walking around, each identifying as "me", each with the same memories as "me", but now each will build new memories independent of each other, and after many years they will be two different people with different memories and experiences from the point of splitting.

To me the only possible logical conclusion is consciousness is an illusion given by the isolated function of brain chemistry, and there is no "transfer" possible as there is nothing to "transfer"!
SelfAwarePatterns
seek truth; question everything
03:04 PM on 07/27/2012
That is indeed an issue that society would have to deal with if the technology ever got to that point. Is the copy still married to the same partner? What if there are multiple copies? Who get's the original's property? If one copy of a person commits a crime, who is guilty? Just that one copy or all copies? What if the criminal copy was just created from another so that they're essentially still the same person with the same outlook and tendencies?

I agree with your comment about consciousness although I think I'd use "emergent" instead of "an illusion".
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Briteleaf
11:06 AM on 07/27/2012
99% of the folks I meet, no matter their age, are in some stage of denial about their own mortality. Soon, the richest of people can buy a ticket to take a denial cruise of the SS Minnow with the Captain and Gilligan. The irony of this dance away from death is a huge bugaboo. Accepting your own, personal mortality is liberating and that awareness makes each day and each moment more precious and full. Priorities realign themselves with a life that is more rewarding, exciting, adventurous and giving and less self-centered, greedy and removed.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
nenitaB
Not the talk. What good result would it hav
10:23 AM on 07/27/2012
This piece of news by Ben Thomas may not be new to Neuroscience doctors or specialist or those studying on this field but a new info to most and good news to everyone esp interested to learn more about our brain and how to preserve and replicate it when it dies. Maybe not all but certainly some would like to live forever but this very difficult kind of discovery will take many years more before it's sucessfully carried out. we hope Ken Hayworth continue his research on this along with his expert colleagues and it would be a great news to us all.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Arrive2 net
Likes higher education+psychology stories, and own
02:47 AM on 07/27/2012
It would be staggering if they are able to develop the scanning technology to that level of detail The size of the datafile would also be staggering.

What I read before about Hayworth's idea of copying and reanimating the mind/brain of a deceased person is the the mind's life would be extended by installing it in a robot ( http://chronicle.com/article/The-Strange-Neuroscience-of/132819/ ), but in my opinion that would not really constitute the person still being alive. I think such a robot will "know" that it is a robot, and therefore the robot will know for sure that it is not the same identical being.

What if some form of old age memory loss, dementia, or just age related mental and physical decline has occurred in the brain of the person being replicated. Will the dementia or loss of ability be replicated forever in order to duplicate the person's mind/brain? A repaired brain/mind is not a true copy, and the replacement will again know that it is not that same old-time, tired "person" living on.

Does a long dead person really benefit from being replaced by a computer... I mean by a robot? If robots really can replace a human predecessor won't it eventually become obvious that the human should be replaced while the human is still young...perhaps in infancy?

Bart Schuster
OnlineGraduateSchool.tripod.com
Twitter.com/arrive2_net
09:24 AM on 07/27/2012
Why would the file size be staggering? The brain is not nearly as complex as most people think. It is estimated that the human brain has about 100-500e12 synapses. That's around 1000TB of data, at most. Even with today's technology that's no more than 250-500 hard drives (worth about $50k). Given the (still) exponential increase in capacity, we will be able to store the information content of a human brain, without any compression, on a single device within probably about 2 decades. All of it would fit into a pea sized atomic storage device, probably less.

However, in all likelihood the human brain does not actually need most of this information. Much of it is probably redundant, so that it may be possible to encode most of what a person is into a much smaller data set.

The problem with all of this is that the encoded person is NOT the real person, though. So you can probably make "a copy" that looks very similar to you, but it won't be you. Moreover, the readout process will, in all likelihood, have to be destructive... which means that you will have to kill yourself to create something that is similar to you, without being you.

And that's just not much of a plan...
nschomer
Scientifically Progressive Libertarian Socialist
11:16 AM on 07/27/2012
Who is to say it isn't "you"? Not a single molecule in your body is the one you started with. So gradual replacement is still you, but if you do it all in one go it isn't? Seems an arbitrary line.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
nenitaB
Not the talk. What good result would it hav
10:33 AM on 07/27/2012
Arrive2 net, Let's hope all your good questions get an answers but it'll take long period of time before these Neuroscientist's goals will be attained and have successful results.This is a hard subject matter to study but hope they push through with their research.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Arrive2 net
Likes higher education+psychology stories, and own
03:04 AM on 07/28/2012
Thanks, good point.