Politics as Bloodsport: A Conversation with Stefan Forbes, Director of Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story

Stefan Forbes is the director of a new documentary called Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story, a fascinating, funny, and deeply disturbing portrait of the controversial Republican operative who perfected the art of politics as blood sport. The film arrives in theaters this weekend riding a wave of critical praise.

Owen Glieberman of Entertainment Weekly: "Stefan Forbes' incisive portrait of the late, infamous Republican consultant is a chronicle of how the culture 
war took over American politics. 
 As such, it could scarcely be more timely. (Karl Rove was Atwater's protégé.)...In terrific clips, we see the scampish gleam of mischief that shot out of Atwater's steely eyes, giving him the look of a honky-tonk Daniel Craig. His great strategy, and legacy, was the art of lying out in the open. He saw that character assassination invades media like an airborne virus---that even a lie can become its own 'truth.'"

And from the Washington Post: "The career of the wildly successful, and wildly controversial, late Republican political operative comes back to us in ways that are funny, sad and mean. There is more than one moment in this film that will likely pop your jaw open."

And finally from the Los Angeles Times: "The movie isn't a knee-jerk lefty hit job. In fact, it shows that Atwater was a runaway success not just because he was a devious political operator, but because, in the words of one liberal reporter Forbes interviewed, the sass-talking, guitar-playing Atwater 'was the most fun man I ever met.'"

I recently had a chance to talk with Forbes about his film and the man who inspired it.

 

 

Why did you decide to make the film? What was the motivation?

Stefan Forbes: I wanted to find out how a guitar-pickin' rogue from South Carolina could reshape American politics so profoundly. Atwater's playbook is still winning Presidential races from his grave. This is a man who played a key role in the elections of Presidents Reagan and Bush Sr., was a mentor to Rove, and taught W. how to campaign. He's the patron saint of political operatives and spinmeisters everywhere, and a hero to Republicans for his unrepentant vision of politics as war. Tom DeLay told me: "He taught us how to fight."

Atwater got his start as a member of the College Republicans, and Karl Rove was his protégé. This organization would seem to have played a vital role in shaping modern Republican politics and America as a whole.

The College Republicans, compared to their Democratic counterparts, are like Navy SEALs vs. Cub Scouts. It's the proving ground for generations of hacks, flacks, smear artists, and hatchet men. They learn how to fight dirty---and successfully counter dirty tactics---before they're out of knee pants. In Boogie Man, we see how Atwater stole their 1973 election for Karl Rove, giving Rove the blueprint for how to take Florida in 2000.

Strom Thurmond was a central figure in Atwater's rise.

Most Northerners only know Thurmond for his early virulent racism and the hypocrisy of his secret black child, but he taught Atwater a lot about the culture wars. Strom was an expert at painting the activists of the 60's as un-American and repulsive to the middle class. Liberals decry the racism but often miss the power of the culture war.

In the film, the 1970s are described as "the decade that the Democrats slept." This line really struck me.

Southern Democrats like Fritz Hollings and Lloyd Bentsen understood politics as a blood sport. They could have prevented their party from losing the flag, God, and working people to strategists like Atwater. It's kind of hard to become President of the United States when people think you're against God and the flag---you might be able to do it in Sweden. But guys like Hollings and Bentsen were marginalized by Inside-The-Beltway Democratic leaders who stood by as Atwater turned the party of FDR and Kennedy into the party of arugula. Atwater was so skillful, he even turned vegetables against the Democrats!

Atwater then worked on Ronald Reagan's campaign.

I was amazed to learn how close Reagan came to getting beaten in the 1980 primary. South Carolina was a must-win state, and the smart money had John Connally---who'd spent heavily and had Strom on his side---whupping him there. But Atwater saved Reagan by planting rumors that Connally was bribing black preachers. Connally spent $10 million and only got one delegate. It's stunning to imagine American history if Reagan had lost that primary.

The film suggests that Ronald Reagan might have actually gone to jail for his role in the Iran-Contra scandal had George H. W. Bush not won in 1988.

Terry McAuliffe reminds viewers how high the stakes were for a Republican administration fighting eight years of scandal, an unpopular and illegal war in Central America, illegal weapons sales to terrorist states, and Reagan's bald-faced lie on national television. Some parallels to 2008 suggest themselves. Of course, Terry's exaggerating a bit; Presidents never go to jail for their crimes. They just hit the lecture circuit at $200K+ a pop.

What about Atwater's falling out with Reagan's campaign director, Ed Rollins?

Ed Rollins is the emotional heart and soul of the film. He loved Atwater like a brother, got betrayed by him, fantasized about murdering him, and then forgave him. What an incredible arc. People are very moved by his testimony in the film. He leaves it all onscreen.

Another line that struck me: "The best political operatives make friends with the press." Or something to that effect. This was certainly the case with Lee Atwater.

Good memory. You're quoting Sam Donaldson. I'm amazed at how you remembered that. Wow, Brad. You are good. Hey, by the way, did I mention there's Oscar buzz about Boogie Man? [Laughs] That's half the Atwater playbook right there. We actually see him flattering a reporter onscreen, causing his buddy Tucker Eskew to ask incredulously, "Don't you know when somebody's gaming you?" The press swallowed a lot of what Atwater fed them hook, line, and sinker. Perhaps his biggest victory was playing to their cynicism, reinforcing that it's the horse race that matters. Atwater reassured them that political journalism is about whose spin is working better, that they weren't duty-bound to report the truth. This side of the Atwater playbook has reaped huge dividends for the GOP. Al Gore, for instance, was swamped by a tidal wave of personal attacks and ridicule, with smears about him having invented the Internet. Atwater also understood the power of mockery. Again in 2004, we saw how it took about three weeks for the press to do their job and start debunking the Swift Boat lies. In 2008 we see McCain's ads basically calling Obama a friend of terrorists who bombed the Capitol, a pedophile, and a scary wolf in the woods who will "destroy" Sarah Palin---nice subliminal messaging there---and the only mainstream journalists who really spoke out loudly were Joe Klein and the women on The View. What an indictment of the American political media!

It has been widely reported through the years that John McCain has worked methodically to cultivate relationships with members of the press. He is unusually beloved among reporters---or has been until this year. Same playbook?

McCain threw out his old media playbook when he picked Palin. He had to do the whole Agnew-war-on-the-'elite-media' shtick, which may have actually woken up a few journalists, making them aware of the disdain the GOP seems to have for them. The Republicans spent decades building their own right-wing media mouthpieces on talk radio and then Fox News, while hammering the pressure points of the corporate media and building the myth of its so-called liberalism. If journalists can't be intimidated and pressured, the GOP just goes over their heads to the American people. It's amazing how much traction you can get from craftily-phrased culture war talking points and an unending stream of cash.

Atwater was hired by George H.W. Bush to be his campaign director in 1988. This was an unusual relationship.

It's so ironic that this chip-on-his-shoulder Southerner, with his deep resentment of Eastern elites, would go to war for the Bush dynasty, the WASP-iest of American families. The film shows how Atwater hitched his wagon to George H.W. Bush's star back in 1973. Bush apparently liked Lee and they did share an off-color sense of humor, but Atwater's friends believe Bush Sr. treated him like the hired help.

 

 

The 1988 campaign exemplified the Atwater/Republican playbook. Michael Dukakis was caught off-guard by their attacks.

Dukakis admits that he totally blew it. We all saw it happen. But it's shocking that when Gore and Kerry were hit with the Atwater playbook, they went back to the Dukakis playbook, not fighting back immediately with simple, strong talking points.

What do you think Dukakis would do differently if he could go back in time?

He counsels people to respond strongly to lies and smears, turning them into a character issue on the other candidate. It's great advice. As Atwater's friends explain in the film, if you just stay on defense all the time, you look guilty.

Barbara Bush reportedly found Atwater offensive, particularly after he urinated in the middle of an interview with reporter David Remnick.

There are so many classic Atwater stories. Roger Stone, the legendary Republican dirty trickster, tells that one in the film. Atwater was imitating LBJ, who used to defecate with the door open to humiliate and dominate his aides. Atwater tries it with Remnick, who writes it up in the New Yorker, and Barbara Bush goes nuts. She almost kicks Atwater off the '88 campaign! There might have been no Bush Dynasty.

This was clearly a man of great contradictions. His friendship with B.B. King and the Willie Horton ad don't exactly match up.

It's those contradictions that make him so interesting; Lee was America writ large. Many of us love African-American music and literature while never examining the subconscious racism that growing up in America has saddled us with. We recoil from the term racist and avoid serious examinations of the misinformation we all carry around. For instance, the media often makes it seem like crime has a black face. Come on! America is the most violent country in the world---there's a lot of white guys out there fighting and beating their wives! We've also been the victims of decades of subliminal GOP advertising implanting racial fear and resentment in hearts. Sam Donaldson deconstructs one of their ads in the film. We've all got to become more saavy consumers of media.

Music played a vital role in Atwater's life. The images of him playing guitar, singing and dancing, are incredible. Where did his love of blues music originate?

Apparently he had an almost-religious experience as a young boy listening to the radio and hearing James Brown's "Please, Please, Please." It stirred something in him, this little kid stuck in a white, Leave It To Beaver-style South Carolina suburb. He started sneaking out at night to the Township Auditorium, defying segregation laws, to sit in the balcony with his buddy Joe Sligh hearing the great R&B legends of the day. Sligh says Atwater worshipped James Brown for the spectacle more than the music. The tight rein JB kept on his band, the absolute domination, the pageantry of a Pentecostal Broadway show, and above all, the cult-like devotion of the audience---Atwater wanted all that in his political campaigns. He was the first operative to become a star, and he became worshipped by legions of Young Republicans. He was their James Brown.

I was struck by Howard Fineman's observation that "the media beast can only be chewing on one ankle at a time."

Fineman sums it up. We're social animals and we look to others to help us make sense of the world. The media often move as a flock, collectively determining the storyline of the moment. They're under great pressure from corporate owners, nervous editors, and crushing timelines; sometimes it's easiest to revert to the safety of what the collective wisdom seems to be.

So many of Atwater's protégés and colleagues refer to him with glowing admiration and a total lack of remorse for the kind of black-ops politics that he advocated and practiced. How do you think they rationalize this no-holds-barred approach? Is winning really everything? Do these people have no souls?

The worst political operatives on both sides really do lose their souls to the pursuit of power and influence. For James Baker III to say at Atwater's funeral, "He was Machiavellian in the best sense of the word"---it really shows the depths of their cynicism. There's a reading of Machiavelli where even good guys must deceive the public and falsely pretend to religious sentiment and so on in order to achieve good things, but ultimately it's all about power. Atwater is a hero to most Republicans today for his unrepentant vision of politics as combat. That's how they see the world, and it's summed up nicely in the Republican Creed, which says, basically: Screw the other guy before he screws you.

 

 

Atwater died tragically at a young age from brain cancer. Whether or not his illness truly transformed him appears to be up for debate. Some believe he had an epiphany and showed remorse. Others, like Mary Matalin, are "disgusted" by this kind of talk. Your thoughts?

It should be up for debate. As a filmmaker you can't presume to know what's in someone's heart; you've got to respect the essential unknowability of the human heart. From what his friends say, this amoral cynic who'd always believed everything was phony suddenly discovered within himself a deep need for the truth. When cancer hit him, his whole philosophy crumbled. The fear tactics he'd used on America came back on him. He lay awake at night terrified he was going to hell for the people whose careers he'd destroyed. He went on a desperate search for redemption and apologized to many people he'd hurt. I was surprised to find out, however, that it was more personal than political. He never apologized for negative campaigning or recanted any Republican beliefs---the media basically made that up. The whole redemption myth was too good to pass up. As Americans we love the whole 'sin on Saturday night, get down on your knees and repent Sunday morning' thing. Atwater was more complicated than that. Even on his deathbed he was still a bit of a rascal.

What would Lee Atwater do if he were advising John McCain today?

He is advising McCain today! They've taken Atwater's playbook farther than he ever would have. You can see the Atwater influence at work in Tucker Eskew, Lee's former intern who ran W's war room in the 2000 election and was Global Communications Director for the White House during the selling of the Iraq war. He's absolutely brilliant, and he's now a senior adviser to the McCain/Palin campaign, traveling with Sarah Palin. These guys are light years ahead of their Democratic opponents. Their sticky phrases and emotional language cut through the typical Democratic ten-point plan.

Last but not least: When is the film going to be released and where will it be playing?

It's opening in LA this weekend at the Sunset 5 and was held over in New York and D.C. on its way to a nationwide release. People can see the trailer and theatrical dates at www.BoogieManFilm.com.

Okay then. Best of luck with it, and my thanks for your time.

Absolutely. And thank you.

 

Comments

[larry278]

Yes, Lee, as the song says. "[was] ...the man who wanted to be BB KING...". Life is real. This isn't a rehersal. Live life like it's real; it is.

[Brad Listi - Huffpost Blogger]

Wait. Life is real?

Merde.

[ekrub]

As I see it, the upshot is that Atwater's political philosophy and susequent campaign tactics were the products of a cancerous brain.

[Brad Listi - Huffpost Blogger]

That might be one possible explanation I suppose.

[JLee]

Speaking of Machiavelli, it's interesting that one of the chapter headings in The Prince reads: "The Multitude is Wiser and More Constant than a Prince." Machiavelli was a huge believer in the representative form of government, something that shows up better in his Discourses on the Works of Titus Livy.

In that sense it's actually the Obama campaign that I would call "Machiavellian in the best sense of the word." They use new media with extreme effectiveness to get people involved in the democratic process, and their campaign is all about the grass roots. They've bypassed the princes of Washington to go straight to the wise and constant multitude. And yes, the campaign is sharp and shrewd in the more traditional Machiavellian sense. I have seen few politicians who play the game so well and so forcefully, like FDR, like Kennedy, while still projecting idealism and inspiration.

Lee Atwater and his ilk are Machiavellian in the common sense of the word, the most amoral and lowest connotation it can have. In the face of the excesses of the party they've upheld and a changing political climate they will rapidly lose their remaining relevance. Obama and his strategists, on the other hand, are Machiavelli's true heirs, believers in the people's ability to rule themselves, worldly and wise players in the great game. They are the Machiavelli for this new age, and I look forward to the America they and/or their heirs will come to shape.

[Brad Listi - Huffpost Blogger]

So what James Baker *should* have said was: "Lee was Machiavellian in the worst sense of the word."

Revisionist history.

[MyVoiceHere]

It is good that this movie is coming out before the election. It sheds light on the negative ads that are going to run at the same time the movie shows.

[Brad Listi - Huffpost Blogger]

Get ready. Palin is already starting it up, talking about Obama's "terrorist pal."

Hopefully this too will backfire terribly.

[littlepuffycloud]

Republicans really do see the world as 'screw them before they screw you'. So cynical and sad really.

[bigOther]

One should remember that Atwater's successes were of the era. I believe he admitted that 'no new taxes' was code for 'no more aid for Negroes'. After Katrina that doesn't play so much or so well, even though one Republican senator just announced how proud he was of his vote against money for Katrina's victims.

[Brad Listi - Huffpost Blogger]

Indeed. Whole lotta fear in that approach.

[newmedia1]

The world wide web did not exist at the time. Atwater was for the 80's and can't play those games in the 20's

[LexLuthier]

Yeah, I agree, and I think the dirty tricks aren't working this time around. I would take comfort in that if I weren't so sure that they're putting some of their best minds to work on figuring out how to game the internet. How could they ever possibly win an election based on the issues? "I want you to vote for me so I can return to Washington and continue greasing the skids for the large corporate interests that provide the money that is so vital to growing our power." They HAVE to use dirty tricks and wedge issues because they have nothing else.

[bobste]

Agree, As a 45-year old, I worried about the FOX spin, etc. and how it would affect voters. All media, in fact, seemed to follow a lead and that made me nervous. However, watching CNN's VP debate when they had the live graph running under the screen, controlled by undecided voters made me feel so much better about the American public. Watching that graph go up and down at critical points made me rejoice in the fact that the American public is smarter and more well-informed this time around. Rovian Politics have been beaten back by the speed of the Internet, communication and the public's ability to get to the truth quicker.

Right will always vote R and left will always vote D. It's the middle - and frankly I'm happy the middle is better informed today. If BO wins this time I have a feeling it will gut Rovian politics and Fixed News. These group's rely on a direct feed from the white house and that will be lost.

[Brad Listi - Huffpost Blogger]

I think those games can be applied to the Internet, but I also think that the Left has a much better presence in the meta-media in 2008 than it did in 2000 or even 2004. It feels like we're doing a better job of countering bogus claims and smears than we were in elections past. We've caught up a little bit with the opposition.

[jerseymaiden]

Movie sounds OK. Lee Atwater was sick, tho, and so are all his little acolytes still running around, thinking that coming up with ever-dirtier tricks to win elections is the measure of success.

[Brad Listi - Huffpost Blogger]

It's a very entertaining film. And Michael Dukakis sort of breaks your heart in it.