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Brian Levin, J.D.

Brian Levin, J.D.

Posted: August 5, 2010 10:57 AM

United States District Judge Vaughn Walker of San Francisco issued a 136 page ruling yesterday holding that Proposition 8, a voter approved ban on gay marriage in California, is unconstitutional. Central to yesterday's decision and future ones will be how far the government can regulate marriage and what threshold of legal protections should extend to gays and lesbians. The decision came after a lengthy trial involving two same sex couples, one male and one female. Judge Walker, who is gay and a Republican appointee, also issued an order preventing his decision from being implemented pending an expected appeal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, the intermediate appellate court covering the West Coast that is the final stop before the case likely moves to the United States Supreme Court. The Ninth Circuit is the most liberal of the federal appellate courts and is known for advancing new legal analysis. It is also the most reversed of all the appellate courts.

The district court decision laid out a legal analysis that will be key to the next step at the appellate level. Walker wrote, "Because Proposition 8 is unconstitutional under both the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses, the court orders entry of judgment permanently ... prohibiting the official defendants [California] from applying or enforcing Proposition 8."

Appellate courts generally concentrate narrowly on the application of the law in a case, rather than retrying the underlying facts. The carefully crafted decision found that California's ban on gay marriage violated two key provisions of the United States Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment. The Supreme Court holds that the amendment enacted shortly after the Civil War in February 1868 confers equal protection of the laws to citizens and also prevents states from unduly interfering with certain fundamental individual rights.

Walker's decision found that the state impermissibly interfered with marriage, a right that the Supreme Court has previously held to be "fundamental." In June 1967 the United States Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia struck down laws banning interracial marriage in over one dozen states holding among other things, marriage to be a fundamental right. When a right is categorized as fundamental the ability of government to interfere with it is severely restricted, though not necessarily eliminated. The government may in fact apply rules that interfere with a fundamental right like marriage, religious exercise, or speech if the government's conduct survives what is called the "strict scrutiny" test. That test requires that government's restriction on an individual's fundamental right advance a compelling governmental interest in the least intrusive manner possible. Relying on facts methodically introduced at trail Walker concluded that the state's restrictions on gays' marital rights simply were not advancing compelling interests in a narrow way and were instead based on less legitimate motives. He rejects the notion that certain religious traditions can serve to restrict how the government authorizes marriages:

Marriage in the United States has always been a civil matter. Civil authorities may permit religious leaders to solemnize marriages but not to determine who may enter or leave a civil marriage. Religious leaders may determine independently whether to recognize a civil marriage or divorce but that recognition or lack thereof has no effect on the relationship under state law.

Walker also attacked the state restrictions on equal protection of the law grounds, The modern concept of discrimination is also rooted in the Fourteenth Amendment. The notion is that similarly situated people should be treated as such. The United States Supreme Court has held that laws which differentiate between groups of people should at the lowest baseline have some rational, non-animus, basis for such differential treatment. Some categories, like racial groups, get even greater protection. As with fundamental rights, differential governmental treatment based on race must advance a compelling governmental interest that is narrowly tailored to achieve that interest. Walker said that he believes gays as a group should have heightened protections akin to race--a view that the Supreme Court has not as of yet adopted. Previously, the Supreme Court has held that differential treatment of gays by the government will be struck down if the government can not articulate a rational basis for doing so and the Court squarely rejected homophobia as a justification. In any event Walker ruled that the state's restriction on marriage by gays and lesbians, i.e. "same sex" does not even pass muster on a rational basis analysis, the least taxing test of the government's authority.

The right to marry has been historically and remains the right to choose a spouse and, with mutual consent, join together and form a household. Race and gender restrictions shaped marriage during eras of race and gender inequality, but such restrictions were never part of the historical core of the institution of marriage. Today, gender is not relevant to the state in determining spouses' obligations to each other and to their dependents. Relative gender composition aside, same-sex couples are situated identically to opposite-sex couples in terms of their ability to perform the rights and obligations of marriage under California law. Gender no longer forms an essential part of marriage; marriage under law is a union of equals.
Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional.

CBS Legal analyst Andrew Cohen wrote of the importance of Walker's craft in laying out factual evidence presented at trial to buttress his legal conclusions:

1. "Individuals do not generally choose their sexual orientation. No credible evidence supports a finding that an individual may, through conscious decision, therapeutic intervention or any other method, change his or her sexual orientation."


2. "California has no interest in asking gays and lesbians to change their sexual orientation or in reducing the number of gays and lesbians in California."

3. "Same-sex couples are identical to opposite-sex couples in the characteristics relevant to the ability to form successful marital unions. Like opposite-sex couples, same-sex couples have happy, satisfying relationships and form deep emotional bonds and strong commitments to their partners."

4. "Marrying a person of the opposite sex is an unrealistic option for gay and lesbian individuals."

5. "The availability of domestic partnership does not provide gays and lesbians with a status equivalent to marriage because the cultural meaning of marriage and its associated benefits are intentionally withheld from same-sex couples in domestic partnerships."

6. "Permitting same-sex couples to marry will not affect the number of opposite-sex couples who marry, divorce, cohabit, have children outside of marriage or otherwise affect the stability of opposite-sex marriages."

7. "Proposition 8 places the force of law behind stigmas against gays and lesbians, including: gays and lesbians do not have intimate relationships similar to heterosexual couples; gays and lesbians are not as good as heterosexuals; and gay and lesbian relationships do not deserve the full recognition of society."

8. "Proposition 8 increases costs and decreases wealth for same sex couples because of increased tax burdens, decreased availability of health insurance and higher transactions costs to secure rights and obligations typically associated with marriage."

9. "Proposition 8 singles out gays and lesbians and legitimates their unequal treatment. Proposition 8 perpetuates the stereotype that gays and lesbians are incapable of forming long-term loving relationships and that gays and lesbians are not good parents."

10. "The gender of a child's parent is not a factor in a child's adjustment. The sexual orientation of an individual does not determine whether that individual can be a good parent. Children raised by gay or lesbian parents are as likely as children raised by heterosexual parents to be healthy, successful and well-adjusted."

The Supreme Court with Californian Justice Kennedy as the swing vote will get the case in coming terms. There the court will determine how far the government can restrict the fundamental right of marriage and whether in the context of marriage gays and lesbians are, as Judge Walker contends, similarly situated to straight citizens.

 

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02:06 PM on 08/08/2010
I know I am going to get my face flamed off for this comment, as this topic engenders a lot of very strong emotion, especially in the liberal blogosphere, but here goes. First let me say I have absolutely no problem with gays or gay marraige. More power to them. But as a straight white male there seems to be an undercurrent and an agenda inside the gay rights movement that makes me a bit uneasy. This pro-gay rights article put it's finger on it exactly:

"...Some categories, like racial groups, get even greater protection. As with fundamental rights, differential governmental treatment based on race must advance a compelling governmental interest that is narrowly tailored to achieve that interest. Walker said that he believes gays as a group should have heightened protections akin to race--a view that the Supreme Court has not as of yet adopted."

I know many people who aren't white or male (i've had this conversation with my wife who is neither) may not believe that discrimination against white males is even possible, or doesn't happen, or if it does so what, who cares, its fair because it evens things out, so really its fair in the end, whatever. I am not asking for sympathy or saying I have had a hard life because of my race and gender but I know for a fact that I have been discriminated against in several important situations because of my race and gender. It happens to Asians as well
03:44 PM on 08/08/2010
(CONT.) ... in the case of college admissions. I know for a fact that I have been discriminated against in important situations due to my race and sex and I have seen it happen to others. I have also seen people from backgrounds of wealth and privilege treated deferentially simply because of their minority status, while more deserving people from a very poor socio-economic backgrounds are passed over because of their "majority" status. I am all in favor of fair and equal but affording some groups "special and privileged" status while others are put at a disadvantage is anything but fair. "Heightened Protections" What the hell does that mean and who decides who gets to have it? Its like awarding one group of people "endangered species" status while all are others are made to suffer the consequences of the state choosing to coddle one particular group.

I know this may sound really far fetched to people who have only experienced prejudice on the traditional end of the stick but as a heterosexual I worry that if people like judge Walker get to write the laws of this country my wife and I may be at a disadvantage in 10 or 20 years from now when it comes to competing with gay couples for things like housing or adopting children. Fair and equal yes, special and privileged, no.

Ok, flame away.
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Lance734
04:46 PM on 08/08/2010
Not going to flame you (interesting pun, by the way; was it intended?), but it may soothe your concerns to know that even though heightened scrutiny in equal protection cases was initially granted for so-called suspect classes (such as Blacks or women) it did subtly, yet explicitly, shift over the decades to suspect classifications. Now, any government classification on the basis of race (including in favor of or against whites, for example) or gender (in favor of or against males or females) is viewed as inherently suspect and subject to higher scrutiny where the burden shifts to the government to articulate an interest that's either compelling (for race) or substantially important (for gender) for said classification. Under strict scrutiny (for race/national origin/alienage) the government has to use the most narrowly tailored means possible to effectuate only that compelling interest. Under intermediate scrutiny (for gender/illegitimacy) the fit between the classification and the important interest must be "exceedingly persuasive". So don't worry, both you and your wife will be fine.
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martymartymarty
red gold and green, red gold and green
09:37 AM on 08/08/2010
Only 50 years ago epileptics were prohibited from marrying in 17 states, and it was criminalized in six. Fifty years from now, people will be scratching their heads wondering what the era of gay marriage bans was all about.
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awa611
She's a snarl-toothed seether.....
10:01 AM on 08/08/2010
No, they won't be wondering. They will clearly know that it was only about fear and discrimination, as we all already know it is. But, I have to say WOW, I didn't know that epileptics were prohibited from marrying. We are and have been such a crazy society.
06:02 PM on 08/05/2010
The way Judge Walker wrote his decision, and the buttressing of it with *80* findings of fact, will make it very difficult to overturn. On what possible basis could it be overturned? Courts almost NEVER challenge findings of fact in a lower court ruling. Furthermore, it would be difficult to argue that the equal protection clause doesn't apply.
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Romulus
Centrist
06:36 PM on 08/05/2010
One way it could be overturned is due to lack of jurisdiction. I've read a couple of times lately that the defense did not feel compelled to mount a vigorous defense because precedent (namely Baker v. Nelson) precludes lower courts from ruling that a law limiting marriage to one woman and one man unconstitutional. Only the current Supreme Court can overturn a previous Court's ruling.

I suspect that is going to be the primary grounds of the defense appeal.
HoosierInMaryland
HuffPo says my 'micro-bio is empty'
09:57 PM on 08/05/2010
And those sources are ???
04:19 PM on 08/06/2010
Maybe so. But those are pretty flimsy grounds. Remember that the Supreme Court overturns earlier rulings on a fairly regular basis. The most famous case, of course, is the Brown v. Board of Education decision, which overturned a Supreme Court ruling in 1896 that "separate but equal" was a perfectly acceptable way to do things. However, there are many other examples. And I'm certain that the Court will take both this and the Massachussetts case.
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4TJefferson
Promote the General Welfare
05:48 PM on 08/05/2010
Excluding people via the US Consitution is always a bad idea. Let Freedom Ring.
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awa611
She's a snarl-toothed seether.....
10:02 AM on 08/08/2010
Yeah. Exactly.
05:22 PM on 08/05/2010
Levin! Geez!! You are the best! I had a feeling I needed to check out HP for a contribution from you regarding yesterday's decision.
Moments before reading this, I had just emailed an acquaintance a response similar to your post about the legal reasoning behind Walker's overturning of Prop 8....(although yours is more coherent)
I'm still stunned that what spawned my response is that I was asked, "Do you think someone paid the judge off?"
*headdesk*
Thank you for providing me with a precursor of adapting the skill of legal analysis!
-Ashley I.
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FogBelter
Illegitimis non carborundum
05:11 PM on 08/05/2010
The 800lb Gorilla in the room everyone is tip-toeing around regarding Gay Marriage is that it is truly a separation of Church and State issue, more than an equal protection issue. Prop 8 was furthering a conservative religious agenda, that is at its heart unconstitutional. As an American I am obligated to tolerate the varied religious beliefs of my countrymen. I understand that. I also understand that no religion has the right to inflict its belief system on the Constitutional Rights of the American people. If American's wish to be Christian. Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Wiccan, what have you is perfectly alright, but none of those groups ... like the Mormons in the case of Prop 8 ... have a right to force-feed their worldview to the rest of us.

I believe Judge Walker got it right in his ruling without touching the third rail I mentioned ... but don't be confused by the peripheral discussion of the topic, This is all about Church v State.
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awa611
She's a snarl-toothed seether.....
10:08 AM on 08/08/2010
And I love how they always deny that they are using their religion to force others to be how they want them to be, then they end up using their religion to explain why they feel the way the do.
02:03 PM on 08/08/2010
@FogBelter
.
Since you believe you know so much about Constitutional law, please identify and explain for your fellow HPers the test that has been adopted by the SCOTUS to determine the Constitutionality of laws under what you call "separation of Church and State".
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If you know even the name of the test and the actual name of the portion of the Constitution to which it applies, this should be easy. Google and Paste. If not, then you clearly are just talking out of ignorance.
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I await your response.
02:56 PM on 08/08/2010
Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?
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FogBelter
Illegitimis non carborundum
03:14 PM on 08/08/2010
Let me cut and paste from Justice Hugo Black's opinion from Everson v. Board of Education:

"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'" 330 U.S. 1, 15-16."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=330&invol=1

The heart of the anti-gay marriage attack is religiously based, and Americans are not required to live by the morality of any religion in our secular society. Enshrining rulings from the pulpit in our law is Unconstitutional.
02:58 PM on 08/05/2010
Not that I want to insinuate anything at all, but…… - I was thinking that if Elena Kagan is confirmed (even though it will not change the ideological makeup of the court) - there will be time for her to have the others on the court get to know and understand her - and she is quite adept at advancing undeclared positions when others don't notice her intent. I'll leave it at that - but there are sometimes unusual and creative steps that a president can take to advance a position that might be too risky to pursue in the light of day. So many are easily played as they focus on the MSM narrative and common think. Anyhow, with fits and starts, equality always advances - often within the framework of an unspoken narrative.
08:20 PM on 08/05/2010
Honestly, I've been thinking the same thing. The praise she's gotten is for her ability to 'build consensus' and I suspect there is one area in particular the President was hoping she could build consensus in.
02:36 PM on 08/05/2010
Without the case being heard, we already know how Scalia, Alito, Thomas and Roberts will vote. They will not hear the case without prejudice. The case will only be heard and decided by 5 justices. The other 4 will not follow their oath of office or the Constitution, but instead will follow their far right agenda and vote accordingly.
02:13 PM on 08/08/2010
Quoting but reversing in part the words of oafishcad;
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"Without the case being heard, we already know how Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayor and Kagan will vote. They will not hear the case without prejudice. The case will only be heard and decided by 5 justices. The other 4 will not follow their oath of office or the Constitution, but instead will follow their far left agenda and vote accordingly."
.
What's good for the goose ...
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Lance734
05:32 PM on 08/08/2010
We certainly don't know how Breyer, Ginsburg, and especially newcomers Sotomayor and Kagan will rule on this issue. I've never seen any writings by the most recent justices on gay rights specifically or equal protection rights generally. Ginsburg is known as a fierce advocate for gender equality (she's on record describing abortion as an issue of female equality) so I could see her striking down anti-marriage equality laws on the basis of pure sex discrimination. But on anything else, it's a toss-up. One might want to extrapolate on Kagan considering her role in Harvard's refusing military recruiters access to campus, but one's role as school dean is quite different from that of a judge and there's no evidence to suggest she wouldn't respect that.

Scalia & Thomas, however, have had their open-hostility to gay rights on record. See the dissenting opinions in 1996's Romer and 2003's Lawrence. Both written by Scalia (and joined by Thomas and the late ChiefJustice Rehnquist) were full of demeaning stereotypes about LGBTs and were incredibly dismissive of the harms suffered by the discrimination victims in those cases. You could practically see the venom dripping from both opinions. In particular, you should listen to Scalia's reading of his Lawrence dissent in the Court recordings (he ended with "I vehemently dissent" whereas it's customary to say/write "I respectfully dissent" or simply "I dissent".) From this year's Christian Legal Society dissent we can guess on Alito & Roberts' potential hostility to gay rights.
01:44 PM on 08/05/2010
I really like the way this man thinks and writes. Any reasonable judge could have come to this conclusion, but it's an incredible piece of writing. No emotional reaching, no remote philosophizing, no hiding in jargon or obscure points; no tortured analogies. Just brilliant, plain Constitutional logic that rings as clear and true as the Liberty Bell. Bravo, sir, and thanks for the reminder of what this country's supposed to be all about.
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CDRUSNret
02:16 PM on 08/05/2010
Elsie...ITA! I'll sure be glad when the country gets beyond this (hopefully sooner than later) so we can concentrate on more important issues. I only had one constitutional law course but it's clear to me that "equal protection" applies here. The fact that some want to implement statute that prohibits two people who love each other from being joined is beyond my comprehension. The bogus argument that it would enable plural or "interspecies" marriage doesn't cut it with me.
03:06 PM on 08/05/2010
And why should there not be plural marriage?
04:06 AM on 08/07/2010
I just heard the interspecies argument today! Completely BAFFLED me too!
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NWBrunette
Blessed Girl
06:16 PM on 08/05/2010
Yes, I was equally impressed. As well with Boies and Olson for the excellent job they did. Kudos all around to those fighting for equal rights.
chrisincalif
End privately funded elections
01:26 PM on 08/05/2010
We have always had *two* types of marriage: secular and religious. Today's objectors are still waving and quoting the Bible, but really, that has absolutely nothing to do with secular marriages performed at City Hall. For instance, the Catholic Church doesn't recognize the marriage of any Catholic hitched at City Hall, but the state does. If you object to same-sex marriage on religious grounds, you needn't worry - your church isn't going to recognize them anyway.

If the SCOTUS actually overturns this decision, then perhaps the new campaign for equality should demand that all perks provided to married couples by the government should be removed. I suspect that voters would vote for marriage equality over financial equality in the realm of taxation, etc.
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Jdaddy1951
01:16 PM on 08/05/2010
This is only the second time that I've heard the judge was gay. I'm surprised the conservative media wasn't bitching and moaning about that fact from Day One. I suppose now they'll say he did it because he had a gay bias. Whiners.
01:39 PM on 08/05/2010
Sssssssssssshhhh... most of them haven't noticed yet, because they're not reading the right sources. With a bit of luck, maybe this gentleman can escape the Glenn Beck treatment.
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Jdaddy1951
02:01 PM on 08/05/2010
Well, no matter what the judge's sexual orientation --- and I'm willing to admit that I was clueless about the fact he was gay; I was just following the case, not the gossip if there was any --- the fact is it's a brilliant judicial decision . It dealt with every single argument both sides presented and exposed the defense emperors as being naked, having nothing, nada.
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Bill J4321
11:17 AM on 08/06/2010
There was some buzz in the early days of the trial about Walker's sexual orientation. The bigots downplayed it. I knew why then and I know why now:

They wanted to keep that in their pocket so that when they lost their case, as they knew they would, they could claim bias on his part. However, if you have read all 138 pages of the ruling, I challenge anyone to point out the bias. Whether his ruling sticks or not, he wrote a clear, concise, factual opinion. And that was clearly his intention. He is a smart man who knew his sexuality would come into play with the bigots when his ruling was published. He knows that this is only round 1, and therefore he took particular care with the fact finding.

He handled this properly and fairly. The facts are the facts, and that is clearly what he was most interested in.
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Jdaddy1951
11:36 AM on 08/06/2010
Good comment. I'd fan you, but I see I already did that. Well spoken.
ThePeacemakers
Concerned Citizen
01:10 PM on 08/05/2010
Sexuality is developed by nature and nurture.

Marriage is a lifestyle choice.
12:46 PM on 08/05/2010
I notice that all the national news is saying "openly gay judge" knocks down prop 8. I wonder if they'll say, after it goes to the USSC, Justices Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito all Catholic Justices, vote with Pope and their religion over the Constitution of the USA in support of prop 8? Even though the judge who made the ruling actually is gay, to open the statement with that fact is a way to be dismissive of, and to not take seriously the decision.
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Jdaddy1951
01:11 PM on 08/05/2010
Sotomayor is also Catholic. I suspect her political views are different from Scalia's and the other Catholics on the bench, though.
02:30 PM on 08/05/2010
The difference is, we don't know how she'll vote. We do already know how the other 4 will vote, since they won't hear the case without prejudice.
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gun1934
75 years old fisherman
09:21 PM on 08/05/2010
i figured you would be baptist jdaddy1951----East Tennessee is a baptist state--they sure dont hate homosexuals like other religions do--then baptist want you to come to church and just maybe youll get saved--bring your friends to church--
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BlairCase
11:52 AM on 08/05/2010
While I have no objection to gay marriage, I think for tax purposes married people should be treated the same as single people. For example, working couples should not be allowed to file jointly. (Generally, taxes are lower when filing jointly, as the tax brackets are much wider (thereby allowing more income to be taxed at lower rates) and joint filers are eligible for a wider range of tax deductions and credits.) In marriages where both spouses are working, neither should be eligible for the head of household deduction. Surviving spouses who are eligible for their own social security benefits should not be permitted to, instead, draw their deceased spouse’s social security payments.
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bookreader451
"You can't ever have my books," she said.
12:28 PM on 08/05/2010
This is about the dumbest argument I ever heard and even the teabaggers wouldn't go for it. While women have made progress in the workforce they still earn less over a life time then men. Why should women be penalized in their retirement by a society still values the working man over the working woman?

Do you even know what cannot be itemized if you file seperately? I can tell your not married.
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bookreader451
"You can't ever have my books," she said.
12:33 PM on 08/05/2010
oops you're not married. don't want to sound like Sister Sara
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BlairCase
02:22 PM on 08/05/2010
I realize the teabaggers wouldn't go for it. I think single women as well as single men would like to be taxed equitably wtih married couples. What's your justification for taxing single women more than married women? As far as gay marriage and social benifits are concern, is concerned, it would be a case of one man opting for another man's benefit or a woman opting for another woman's benefits. With more women than men graduating from college and wage-grade labor jobs vanishing, more men will soon begin opting to drawn their dead wives' benefits.
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bookreader451
"You can't ever have my books," she said.
12:29 PM on 08/05/2010
And another FYI no married couple is eligible for the head of household filing status anyway.
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bookreader451
"You can't ever have my books," she said.
12:35 PM on 08/05/2010
and a gay couple with a child would have the option of one of the partners filing head of household.
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BlairCase
02:34 PM on 08/05/2010
You are right about head of household status.
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texastrixie
I invented the internet.
11:48 AM on 08/05/2010
The Prop 8 court decision is based on fact, not feelings. As such, it will be rounded denounced by conservatives. Nothing this country has ever done, or legislated is not clouded by personal beliefs and prejudices. We have a strong first amendment protecting religion because this nation was created partly because the populace at that time had a history of religious oppression.

This is why the Constitution can never remain "true" to the ideals of the founding fathers. In some instances, the founding fathers were just plain wrong.

There is no logical reason why two men or two women cannot "marry." Its a ceremony, and a title, nothing more. These couples have families, pay taxes, buy groceries just like heterosexual couples. Oh yes, the bedroom. If we are going to define marriages by a certain criteria for the bedroom, very few of us will meet the standard continuously over the span of long marriage.

Law cannot simply be a re-statement of the religious and common "morality" which is popular at the time. Gay marriage is not right because we have become less moralistic about homosexuality, it is right because if everyone is to be treated equally, then all must be allowed to marry. Yes we stand the chance that later, weird groups of people will want to marry. Maybe they will be allowed to. But that is not the issue now. Now the issue is gay marriage, and it clearly comes under the equal protection" of the constitution.
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Soulmentor
"To thine own self be true...."
12:17 PM on 08/05/2010
Fanned. Very eloquent and succinctly right on.
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StevenWells
Objects in the avatar are larger than they appear
12:45 PM on 08/05/2010
I can only echo Soulmentor.

Well done (and fanned).