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Brian Rosenberg

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Will Dropouts Save America? No.

Posted: 10/27/11 10:27 AM ET

I want to begin by congratulating Michael Ellsberg, who this past Sunday (Oct. 23) published in the pages of The New York Times an op-ed piece ("Will Dropouts Save America?") arguing that the key to American's economic future was the production of more college dropouts. Somehow he managed to skip the marketing section of The Times altogether and publish an extended advertisement for his book, The Education of Millionaires: It's Not What You Think and It's Not Too Late, for free. Nicely done.

There are few things more condescending and destructive than those who have benefited from an expensive and intensive college education (Mr. Ellsberg is a graduate of Brown University) arguing that others need not bother about such benefits for themselves.

Let us take a look at Mr. Ellsberg's argument. "Certainly, if you want to become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer, then you must go to college." "True, people with college degrees tend to earn more." "Most people who end up starting business likely have college degrees." One would think that these would together comprise a reasonably compelling case for the benefits to our society and our economy of fewer dropouts.

But if you reach such a conclusion, you have probably had your creative thinking crushed by such unnecessary college courses as economics, statistics, and philosophy (where they teach logic). Mr. Ellsberg takes us down a different road.

Yes, colleges are good at producing "professionals with degrees." But, he counters, "we don't have a shortage of lawyers and professors." Leaving aside the question of whether we will benefit in the future from well-educated lawyers and professors, I note that Mr. Ellsberg fails here to mention doctors or engineers or researchers or any other professionals in fields related to science and mathematics, where we do in fact face a dangerous shortage in the United States and upon whom global health, global innovation, and the global economy are so dependent.

People with college degrees do indeed earn more -- and find jobs more easily, with an unemployment rate at present in this country of about five percent -- but, Mr. Ellsberg insists, "there is little evidence to suggest that the same ambitious people would earn less without college degrees (particularly if they mastered true business and networking grit)." There is little evidence because there cannot by definition be such evidence: it is simply impossible to prove a hypothetical negative of this kind. I leave it to the reader to determine whether or not "grit" sounds like a reasonable alternative to a better system of science education for America's youth.

As for the detail that most business creators have college degrees? Mr. Ellsberg is prepared for that one as well. "Assuming that college was responsible for their success gives higher education more credit than it deserves." Here as elsewhere, Mr. Ellsberg is describing and then attacking a straw man of his own creation. Few sensible people have ever argued that a college education is solely responsible for the success of talented and motivated individuals; rather, it seems reasonable to argue that a sound education is an important constituent part of the basis for that success.

In preparation for writing his book, Mr. Ellsberg "spent the last two years interviewing college dropouts who went on to become millionaires and billionaires." I presume that he did not interview college graduates who achieved similar financial success because the list was so much longer. His method also begs the question of whether college dropouts are the best source of reliable information about the nature and value of a college education.

So, what did he learn from these interviews?

Well, "our current classrooms... stifle creativity. If a young person happens to retain enough creative spirit to start a business upon graduation, she does so in spite of her schooling, not because of it." "From kindergarten through undergraduate and grad school, you learn very few skills or attitudes that would ever help you start a business. Skills like sales, networking, creativity and comfort with failure." I especially like the kindergarten reference: let's get those blocks and crayons out of those classrooms and begin working on eye contact (about which Mr. Ellsberg wrote an earlier book) and a firm handshake.

It's hard to know where to begin in responding to these contentions -- that tends to be the case when contentions are based on no evidence -- but I want at least to draw attention to Mr. Ellsberg's arguments about creativity, which he appears to believe is an inherent quality that is only diminished by excessive amounts of classroom time. Has he ever been in a lively classroom working with a gifted teacher? I am both a parent and a college president, and I have seen first-hand that the creative abilities of both my children and the students at my institution are far more often enhanced than stifled by the study of art and literature, the pursuit of answers in a laboratory, or a deeper understanding of human history and psychology. To Mr. Ellsberg these are merely "narrowly defined academic subjects" -- as opposed to more practical skills, I would assume, in such areas as sales and networking.

Arguments like Mr. Ellsberg's might simply be dismissed as silly, but these days they are, unhappily, more likely than ever to foster the spread of misinformation and to be used as the basis for terrible public policy proposals. It remains the case that there is not a single example of a society in this or any other age that has improved its economy or strengthened its civic institutions by educating fewer of its people. That isn't as catchy as offering seven easy steps toward becoming a millionaire or billionaire without a college degree (that's the number in Mr. Ellsberg's book), but it is true.

Mr. Ellsberg ends by noting that "I'd put my money on the kids who are dropping out of colleges to start new businesses." Unfortunately the opposite is true: in marketing his Education of Millionaires, he is taking the money of such kids (only $14.99 for the Kindle edition) and delivering to young people who are working hard to get an education exactly the wrong message.

 
 
 
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02:07 PM on 11/01/2011
I also wonder why he didn't think it important to interview college drop outs who were NOT millionaires and billionaires? Wonder how many of them wish they had finished college...
07:08 PM on 10/30/2011
How is this for more than enough supporting prove that prove college is a business and a BIG waste of time and money for most:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/College-Conspiracy/100530400037409?ref=ts

http://www.youtube.com/innovatorsacademy#p/f/7/N2_DY5-0o48
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mrld20
01:21 PM on 10/29/2011
No offense to the blogger but there are too many kids going to college... It is true employers want see some kind of post-secondary education...

I spent a whole year at college bankrupting my parents only to discover it wasn't for me... When I left I went back to school at a community college where I entered a program that grants "specialized" degrees. When I graduate in a year I will have a skill and a degree that is worth something.

I never would have gotten that from a liberal arts school... True employers love kids with liberals arts education... But in reality while they're well rounded in all the classics and philosophy they lack a tangible skill like me...
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Mike Newman
08:29 PM on 10/27/2011
there needs to be a study that asks this simple question:

how much of what doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, engineers, and scientists learn in undergraduate school is important towards their day-to-day career?

i guarantee you that no more than 10-15% of what they learn is relevant. the other 85-90% is a waste of time and money, yet it's $ the universities need to survive with their wasteful, inefficient and ineffective ways of doing business.
11:41 PM on 10/27/2011
I can't speak for some of those fields, but the scientific and mathematical basics upon which engineering, science, medicine, etc are covered in undergraduate school. Ditto computer science. I have a Ph.D. in Engineering, but I have been working in far different areas than my educational specialty. My broader education in what would appear to be worthless fields has been quite useful. And no, getting a strong scientific foundation has not impeded my creativity. And I have done 3 technical startups.
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Fromageball
03:38 PM on 10/29/2011
I don't think it's education in other fields that is the problem, but is it necessary to pay college tuition prices - not to mention college textbook prices - to sit in a room with 300 other kids, listening to someone read a power point presentation? That's what a lot of "general education" classes are these days whether taught by a professor or a TA.
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Grogger
Nothing is guarded more fiercely than unfair gain
05:20 PM on 10/28/2011
I'm siding with you on this sir. Students are captive consumers and meat for the machine. They usually have no idea what they're paying for until it's too late and they figure out the scam. The problem is not enough students getting degrees, it's that there is a fundamental disconnect between reality and the classroom. All the bs about critical thinking, developing well-rounded citizens, blah, blah, blah is a weak justification to drag the degree out as long as possible. I agree with you, higher education is a predatory institution.
09:23 PM on 10/27/2011
As a Macalester College dropout, I read both Michael Ellsberg's article and President Rosenberg's response with great interest.

After dropping out of college, I haven't made millions of dollars founding a tech start-up. However, I've managed to earn a comfortable middle-class income with great job security working as a mechanic. I'm lucky in that I've found a job I enjoy that pays a liveable wage. Many of my friends with bachelor's degrees cannot say the same.

Since joining the automotive service workforce, I've come to recognize a massive shortage of intelligent technicians, mechanics and electricians ready to fill the jobs created by today's technologies. While scientists and engineers will create most of the jobs of tomorrow, our economy equally requires skilled tradespeople to fill these jobs.

We need to stop telling our brightest students that a four-year college degree is the only path to success. Today's skilled trades require as much intelligence and creativity as most white-collar careers. However, a mechanic doesn't need an understanding of social constructivism to fix a car. It's time to re-examine the strengths of trade schools and apprenticeships, and reconsider the usefulness of a "well-rounded" education.
05:51 PM on 10/27/2011
You criticize Ellsberg for charging $14.99 for the book, while Macalester charges over $200,000 !!!!
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Mike Newman
04:04 PM on 10/27/2011
wow. an elitist academic condemning someone that says college is overrated. this is so surprising. i;m being sarcastic in case you fail to notice.

what you fail to mention is that there are much more effective and efficient ways to educate young people. case in point, when it comes to law school, why must someone waste four years of their life getting an undergrad degree when everything they learn is in law school???

so tell me mr. college president, when has sitting in a classroom ever emulated the real world??? mentorships, apprenticeships, internships are much, much better ways to learn, but colleges have a monopoly on the current job market credentialing system.

when it all comes down to it colleges and universities care more about making money than properly educating their students at an affordable price.
11:03 PM on 10/27/2011
Mike- Imagine if someone went straight from high school to law school. It seemed as if half of my high school graduating class spoke about entering a career in the legal field at some point. Yet, many of those same people did not even finish a far less demanding program of study required for a bachelors degree, let alone register law school. Law school, like many graduate programs, requires an exceptional amount of dedication, logic, research skills, critical thinking skills and a strong ability to design effective arguments. Students develop these skills in four years of undergraduate study. If we let every high school grad who thought they would make a great lawyer jump straight into law school, the results would be catastrophic.

Perhaps you have not spent much time in a college classroom recently. However, I see lessons that emulate the real world on a daily basis. Students deliver rehearsed speeches and presentations to large audiences, they engage in debates that require an advanced understanding of a subject and they design online platforms that would be incredibly beneficial for small businesses. I could provide you with plenty of additional examples if you wish.
10:13 AM on 10/28/2011
When you seem to resent someone because they're educated, it says more about you than it does about them.
12:13 PM on 10/27/2011
Agree that creating a society of dropouts is absurd, but let's not pretend all is well with the educational system. It DOES stiffle creativity (I had maybe two of the great teachers you mention from kindergarden through my doctorate), and there ARE ways to target educational systems that would better serve students in the real world. Ellsberg may be a fool, but simply disagreeing with him, addresses the problems (and expense) of college education not at all.
03:24 PM on 10/27/2011
I suspect that the people you went to school with, from kindergarten through your doctorate, would similarly say that only a few of their teachers were great.

But I strongly suspect they'd disagree with you on which ones.
12:16 PM on 10/28/2011
I'm not so sure eceresa. Great teachers, in my opinion, are widely recognized. At my last high school reunion we did an exercise of rating the best teachers we had and the numbers were remarkably consistent. Obviously, some will be colored by interest and personality. But for example a high school math teacher of mine (a generally despised subject for many) popped up on nearly everyone's radar. Likewise, the truly terrible teachers were pretty easy to spot.
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ckdogs
Veritas
11:22 AM on 10/27/2011
There are always exceptions to rules ie Gates and Jobs, athletes and movie stars. But we all know that the educated have an easier time finding jobs and making a living. That having been said, there are some who are not college material, or who have a different inclination ie like to farm, build things, etc. If his point is that these jobs should be valued as well, then I agree. We all hear different drummers. But given a choice, more education gives most people a step up.
07:40 PM on 11/17/2011
My father, who dropped out of high school, served during the Vietnam Conflict, and ran a family dairy farm all of his life, said this to me: "You know, if I go bankrupt, the government can take everything I've worked for all my life. If you go bankrupt, no one can take away the education you worked for. If I lose my job, I have very few options. If you lose a job, because of your education, you still have all kinds of choices." That, in my opinion, is precisely what we get when we are well educated: a lot more choices.

Furthermore, I have three undergraduate majors and am working on an MFA in Creative Writing. A lot of people thought I wasted a lot of money on the first one because I spent many years working in the field of the second major. But ten years into my career, I was suddenly working in the field of the first. The fact is, if we are blessed, our lives are long, and things are bound to change again and again. Over the years, I have shown that I am more than capable of learning and adjusting to change; these are perhaps the most useful skills I gained through my education, and I gained those via every single course I ever took.
RealistBC
Micro-bios must pass muster.
10:54 AM on 10/27/2011
Both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates came from upper-middle-class families. They were given access to facilities and knowledge that are denied the majority of us because we don't share that kind of family connection to the state of the art. So it isn't that college is worthless as some claim. It's that the person has the freedom to explore interests with the necessary facilities provided to do so. Books can only do so much, just as having technology to play with can only do so much. Both are necessary for true innovation, and Gates and Jobs had access to both - along with the freedom from having to work providing the time necessary to explore their sciences.
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wakeupyouall
10:44 AM on 10/27/2011
Our education does kill creativity. There are some schools that our using progressive education but they are rare and they have to fight the system. No Child with it testing on roto learned skills is one of the greatest killer of inovation in education. Thanks Repubs and Bush family for the real stealth undermining of the education in this country.